December 22, 2002 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Mind Fucks". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
* Fyre{j} listens for the trumpet fanfare of ModBot
<ethicalslut> There it was
<`abi> if he shows up early we have to pay him overtime Justice
<Fyre{j}> extra lube?
<kierana{DRFL}> *chuckles*
<Symmetre[t]> ModBot is unionized?
<slave_earl> lol
* jewel`{F} blows Master's trumpet
<SirGriz> lool
<Fyre{j}> that's revelry not a fanfare
* jewel`{F} gives `abi an extra can of WD40 for the bot
<Fyre{j}> ok, so who's been Mind Fucked and was it good for you?
* jewel`{F} raises her hand
<jewel`{F}> oh yeah and damn good too
<rose{MD}> me too me too
<SirGriz> first of all what is it?>
<Fyre{j}> DA wants details, lots and lots of details,, not holding back now
<Symmetre[t]> to me, a mind fuck is creating a situation where the sub will squirm ... when facing a situation or threat that is more imagined than real
* DarkAngel^{rt} mumbles around his food ,, yup ,, whut he said ,, details
<jewel`{F}> it can be very real at the time though
<SirGriz> what would be a situation where it might happen?
<rose{MD}> when you are blindfolded and your One is whispering things in your ear he may do to yu
<SirGriz> ty rose that clarifies that tremendously
<kierana{DRFL}> here here rose...and so the anticipation builds so that when something is done you're not ready for it...
<rose{MD}> yw Sir
<SirGriz> does it create extasy?
<SirGriz> or can it it or not?
<rose{MD}> it can build up to that Sir
<jewel`{F}> when you are going to be going to a play party and your Master asks you to pack the toybag up being very detailed in what He asks to have packed
<ethicalslut> Or being bound and having Him play a blade across your skin... not cutting... knowing it hasn't been negotiated but damn he's still got that freakin blade... Getting freaked out but still trusting enough to ride it
<SirGriz> I see it clearer now
<ethicalslut> ahem... blushes
<SirGriz> it is the percieved notion that something bad might happen but in the end it should have wounderous results?
<Symmetre[t]> no one can frighten us more severely than we can frighten ourselves. A mind fuck creates a space where one's own imagination can run wild ... and assume the worst
<Fyre{j}> Dom/mes/Tops ... how do you go about building the scene for you sub/bottom?
<SirGriz> ah....gotcha
<ethicalslut> beautiful description, Symmetre
<Symmetre[t]> ty
<kierana{DRFL}> not necessarily bad, Sir Griz...just that something is anticipated...but then something totally different happens
<Sweet1`> or assume something different, not necessarily the worst
<SirGriz> sort of psycing out the subbie you mean?
<Symmetre[t]> not so much psyching out the subbie ... as letting them psyche themself out. Basically giving them enough rope to hang themself
<ethicalslut> Psyching out with skill
<Symmetre[t]> you just give them the rope
<kierana{DRFL}> our minds are built to create situations based on outside stimuli...when a Dom tells us one thing...we picture it, anticipate what will happen...focus on it, if you will...and then...poof!
<rose{MD}> is it another form of mind fuck if you do not hear from your Dominant for days at a time? Or is it a lesson in patience? O rwhat
<Fyre{j}> its using Your knowledge of the wants/desires/fears of your partner and creating (jewel` would say devising) a scene to play off of those emotions and feelings
<SirGriz> depends on the situation I think.......I have a sub friend whos Master does that to her all the time......drives her up the
<jewel`{F}> rose{MD} for that it can be both i think
<rose{MD}> i can well imagine it would. But is it a good form of training Sir
<Symmetre[t]> here's a good mind fuck. I sent my girl to purchase a Fisher Price toy telephone. You know, the one with the string that kids pull ... and it makes cute sounds. Imagine being told to purchase one of those ... and informed you will be tied to some anal beads and you will be towing it around. Then ... told you need to work on your speed, because you will be entered in some upcoming drag races
<rose{MD}> ?
<jewel`{F}> you have all sort of spare time to think all sorts of things
<jewel`{F}> your imagination an take over
<SirGriz> interesting concept Symmetre
<rose{MD}> This is true jewel
<Fyre{j}> you get inside their head and work everything around the way you want them to experience it, not the way they think you want them to experience it
<Symmetre[t]> towingthe little phone around isn;t nearly as bad as knowing you will .... having that thought stewing away for days on end
<Symmetre[t]> seeing the phone in the house and knowing you'll be towing it around with your ass
<Symmetre[t]> lol
<SirGriz> loo
<Symmetre[t]> just one example
<SirGriz> lol
<slave_earl> do Dom/mes enjoy this kind of thing?
* Symmetre[t] does
<rose{MD}> i think they thrive on it lol
<Fyre{j}> I belive they do earl
<ethicalslut> Grins... my Top collecting all the disposable chopsticks from the table at the sushi restaurant. Slipping them into the toy bag, smiling and saying... "for later", then grinning as you blush crimson
<jewel`{F}> yes they do earl
<rose{MD}> but then i think we subs and slaves also do
<jewel`{F}> ethicalslut Master did that once, it sort of backfired on Him though cause now i collect them
<ethicalslut> Nods nods... squirming is fun
<ethicalslut> LOL... me too, jewel. I get all blushy and confused at the sight of sushi
<`abi> could have been worse ethicalslut ... he didn't take the wasabi
* Fyre{j} looks at jewel` ..... ready to play airplane pet?
<Symmetre[t]> having a sub participate in planning their own misfortune is a terrific example of a mind fuck. For instance, sending them out to purchase their own enema kit ... on a busy Saturday afternoon ...
* jewel`{F} blushes
<jewel`{F}> there are enough now Master for it
<ethicalslut> Eek... now THAT is sadistic 'abi
<ethicalslut> gleeps
<Fyre{j}> WAS`abi~~~~
<ethicalslut> LOL
* kierana{DRFL} slips away
* Fyre{j} snaps His fingers to bring everyone out of subspace
<jewel`{F}> how about knowing that there is always a vibe and pepermint extract in His pocket
<rose{MD}> thank you Fyre Sir *grin*
<Symmetre[t]> if that knowledge makes you squirm jewel`{F} .... abaolutely
<ethicalslut> shakes her head
<jewel`{F}> never knowing when He may decide to use it
<Fyre{j}> (praying He does)
<jewel`{F}> that too
<ethicalslut> but please gods not during church
<`vixie> lol ethicalslut
<ethicalslut> grins
* `vixie remembers cinnamon oil
<Fyre{j}> wrong kind of cross
<Symmetre[t]> any old port in a storm
<rose{MD}> oh my crosses *returns to subspace*'
<DarkAngel^{rt}> we all have our crotches to bare
<rose{MD}> lol
<Fyre{j}> some more than others *winx*
<Fyre{j}> what doesn't work as a mind fuck?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I was in a group scene once ,,, for a subbies b-day ,,, she was tied up ,, and many Dom/me's and subs were asked to play/feel/poke/squeeze her
<ethicalslut> Mind fuck has to be based on trust..
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I have also set up group b-day spankings ,,, where I am asked and control all that happens ,,, leaving the sub to wonder what evil plans I might carry out on them
<rose{MD}> for sure ethical.
<slave_earl> ethicalslut, not sure i understand why
* jewel`{F} double thinks her desire to go to the March DAL now
<DarkAngel^{rt}> well no idea ,,, lol
* DarkAngel^{rt} <--- very untrustworhty guy
<ethicalslut> You can fly pretty high messing with Mind Fuck, but the risks are great, too
<tvsubbie> slave_earl, when talking about taking someone's perceptions and thoughts, and warping them for some desired effect, the sub HAS to trust that the Domme has their best interests in terms of SSC at heart
<ethicalslut> In my experience, the more you know and trust the other person, the more likely you are to both come out of playing with edgy mental stuff whole
<DarkAngel^{rt}> well mind fucks arent for casual play
<`vixie> true DA
<Symmetre[t]> I don't know I agree with that comment on risks. For a mind fuck to work you have to really know someone ... know what makes them tick. One would hope that would also include knowing when to draw the line so the experience doesn't become a negative one.
<Sweet1`> the sub can end up doing their own mind fuck with casual play
<DarkAngel^{rt}> they should ,,,, should in my opinion at least ,,, be a toy of an established relationship
* Kilted_One has actully found it easier to mind fuck someone who only sort of knows you.....familiarity seems to take the edge off of things
<ethicalslut> No, Dark Angel, I do not believe they are as a rule
<ethicalslut> Forgive me... my last comment was meant to twin with..."aren't for casual play"
<slave_earl> still confused, trust mistress totally, therefore, have no problem going where She wishes without foreknowledge of where that may lead
* DarkAngel^{rt} chuckles ,,, knowing KO is known as an evil mean bugger
<tvsubbie> then, for you, the trust is already there know that she will not take you somewhere that will harm you mentally, or emotionally
* DarkAngel^{rt} is known for his gentle sensual play ,,,,, all soft and sweet
* `vixie snorts
<`vixie> sure sure DA
<slave_earl> tvsubbie, that is correct
<ethicalslut> Symmetre, I don't think anyone knows even themselves well enough to know every time what may or may not set them off. In the best of all possible worlds, we or our Tops know exactly where the line is, but I think in reality we have to recognize that is not always possible
<Kilted_One> what is the workshop that you are teaching DA??
<tvsubbie> without that trust though, the ride of a mind fuck can be a terrible the Dom/me has to be ready, and able, to properly navigate
<DarkAngel^{rt}> facilitating KO ,,, facilitating
<ethicalslut> is delighted there is another.... facilitator in the room
<DarkAngel^{rt}> what are some props that go well with mind fucks ? ... blindfolds come to mind immediately
<Kilted_One> vacilations ya mean
<Symmetre[t]> yes, ethicalslut .... but I consider it this way: the subbie may be tripping out at the time, as a result of this great mind fuck, where the dom isn't ... he/she is removed enough to have an eye on how the sub is reacting ... and is therefore in a position to go further or back off based on the subs reactions
<ethicalslut> Grins... remote-control vibrators are useful, if unpredictable
<DarkAngel^{rt}> good one
<ethicalslut> While I agree with you in principle, Symmetre, I have never considered Dom/mes infallible, not even myself when I Domme
<slave_earl> would think a remotely controled shocking device would be better
<Symmetre[t]> no one is infallible, ethicalslut
<DarkAngel^{rt}> like a dog collar slave_earl ?
<ethicalslut> Precisely
<slave_earl> like that one
* DarkAngel^{rt} <--- is not inflatable either
<ethicalslut> SIngs.. "my sweet inflatalbe you.."
<Symmetre[t]> but ethicalslut ... there is an element of risk in everything
<ethicalslut> SMiles.. that is what makes it worth doing, Symmetre. The risk, the edge
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Mmmm well think about the potential of a mind fuck if one were close friends with a uniformed wearing police officer ,,,, that the sub was un-aware of *evil smile*
<ethicalslut> Sometimes we all fall over it
<ethicalslut> Oh my DarkAngel... oh my
<DarkAngel^{rt}> does any sub here have a secret fantacy ,, that would work well into a mind fuck ?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> to me those would make the best kind
* jewel`{F} does but she isn't sharing right noe
<ethicalslut> fantsaizes about kidnapping... can be serious mindfuck
<ethicalslut> especially if that Special Someone got a few friends together, and used a blindfold
<ethicalslut> Interrogation scenes...
<slave_earl> ethicalslut, how about being prostituted?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> wow slave_earl ,, you hardly know her
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol
<rose{MD}> i have many such fantasies mmmm
<ethicalslut> Considers... not one of mine, but ykinmkbykio
<rose{MD}> being tied outside blindfolded and you don't know if you can be seen by anyone else
<ethicalslut> Chuckles
<DarkAngel^{rt}> a good one rose{MD} ,,, or used by anyone
<slave_earl> naked?
<rose{MD}> yes naked
<slave_earl> no, sounds like too much fun
<ethicalslut> Nopes it's not to a tree - the bark would itch in a bad way
<Symmetre[t]> hopes the tree doesn't have ants
<rose{MD}> lol
<ethicalslut> eek - ants are not part of my fantasy either
<rose{MD}> mine either but floggers, crops etc *egA*
<DarkAngel^{rt}> at an event ,,, thatwill remain nameless ,,, I used my slave on a picknik bench in broud day light one morning ,,, I described to her how passers by probably thought of her ,,, what a cheap whore
* DarkAngel^{rt} smacks his spell checker
<Symmetre[t]> I had an ex who had a serious fantasy about being exposed in public and fondled by passers by .... that was easy to exploit and always got her excited in a huge hurry
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I like that Symmetre[t]
<`vixie> i always found being walked in public sans underwear and being whispered to about its lack was a good turn on
* `vixie shrugs
<rose{MD}> it would work for me vixie
<Symmetre[t]> especially in a short dress or skirt, I imagine
* `vixie nods
<`vixie> yes
<DarkAngel^{rt}> many years ago ,,, I had a sub friend close her eyes while I drove at night ,,, ordered her to remove her top ,,,, and told her I was matching speeds with a semi truck who was watching her ,,, then I told her to play with her breasts ,,, she closed her eyes even tighter ,,, and played away
<rose{MD}> i am a truck driver hope it was not beside me lol
<Symmetre[t]> that must have drove her nuts DA
<slave_earl> hoping it was true but afraid it was not
<ethicalslut> lol
<DarkAngel^{rt}> she loved it Symmetre[t] ,,,
<DarkAngel^{rt}> the relaese of control ,,, the crossing the line ,,, under submission to anouther who orders it thus ,,,,
<DarkAngel^{rt}> anyone else have a good story about a mind fuck they participated in ?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> or a small thing that became an unintensional mind fuck (or unexpected turn on)
<Symmetre[t]> unexpected turn-ons are the best ones
<rose{MD}> i agree fully *licks lips*
<DarkAngel^{rt}> care to share one rose{MD} ?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> brb
<rose{MD}> For instance the first time Master tied me up , put pegs on certain places and swat them off. It hurt like hell but was a turn on too
<Symmetre[t]> were you blindfolded at the time rose? or could you see it?
<rose{MD}> He told me to be quiet and i did . Don't know how
<rose{MD}> Yes i was Sir
<Symmetre[t]> *eg*
<rose{MD}> Later it left me wondering if i could handle it all over again'
* jewel`{F} nods
<jewel`{F}> sometimes just thinking about a scene, going over it again in your head can work as a mind fuck as well
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<Symmetre[t]> absolutely, jewel`{F}
<jewel`{F}> especially those scenes that leave you wanting more
<rose{MD}> i have had quite a few of them jewel*s*
<Symmetre[t]> so what are elements then of a great mind fuck? Perception being number one, by the sounds of it. What else?
<Fyre{j}> I don't intentionally leave her wanting more, she just insatiable
* jewel`{F} blushes
* Symmetre[t] spots a mind fuck!
<Fyre{j}> shhhhhhhh
<Fyre{j}> *winx*
<Fyre{j}> control is the other element Symmetre ... works well with perception
<Symmetre[t]> agreed
<Symmetre[t]> anything else?
<Symmetre[t]> anticipation would be a big part, I should think
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.