December 21, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion
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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Sex and BDSM -- Two Great Things That Go Great Together?". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<BernieRoehl> There we go
* BernieRoehl pats modbot on the head, recognizing that the poor thing was trying to run but couldn't find a working filesystem
<`TimberWolf> :)
<BernieRoehl> So, sex and BDSM... good together, obviously, but also good separately?
<_dove> i came in more from the PE side, TW, many of the activities were outward signs of submission / control
<shardangeli> PE?
<`TimberWolf> so you don't necessarily derive a connection with sex and your bdsm dove?
<`TimberWolf> power exchange shardangeli
<shardangeli> ah.. okay
<_dove> They go beautifully hand in hand, imo...... but can be exclusive
<`TimberWolf> true anything can be exclusive.....but in this case can you give me a reason you might want them to be exclusive to each other
<_dove> PE in public would be one of them TW....... where a Dominant has control, but it cannot be expressed sexually (and not be arrested anyway *G*)
<`TimberWolf> lol
<Jenz_boy> I think it depends on where you are at the time. Sometimes its about service and sometimes it's about our own insecurities and those insecurities often are appeased by a seriously good fuck.
<`TimberWolf> valid point Jenz_boy
* Fyre{j} looks through the Dominant Manual for an example of a seriouly bad fuck
<Jenz_boy> Good point . . .
<`TimberWolf> can anyone speak about a seperation of the two that wasn't caused directly by the situation...ie public exposure
<shardangeli> Well with me, not everyone I want to be intimate with is into BDSM, and sometimes I just like to be cuddly...
<Jenz_boy> Being a humiliation slut, I find that the seperation can definately take place in a public situation. WIth that said, it isn't "sex", but it certainly is "sexy".
<`TimberWolf> ok shardangeli...now reverse that...are you intimate with those that you share bdsm with?
<`TimberWolf> that is very true Jenz_boy
<shardangeli> well sometimes... my BDSM experience is very limited RL, but I can't see giving up non-BDSM intimacy...
<`TimberWolf> nor should you ever have to shardangeli
<`TimberWolf> ok does one make the other better necessarily?
* delyssa grins
<`TimberWolf> or does being good at one make you better at the other?
<shardangeli> well there's a certain amount of bleed between the two methinks...
* delyssa nods
<Jenz_boy> I agree with TimberWolf. You should not have to give up non-BDSM intamacy. Jen is my "best friend", "lover" and "Dom". I can't imagine losing any of these personas.
<`TimberWolf> go on shardangeli
<`TimberWolf> welcome KO .....what are your views on SEX and bdsm???....
<`TimberWolf> does one make the other better necessarily?
<`TimberWolf> or does being good at one make you better at the other?
<shardangeli> well most of the time when i'm being intimate, there will be a certain small degree of power play as well as some light SM (ie rough nipple play, spanking...) also from the other end, I don't see how BDSM can really work without triggering something at least mildly erogenous, be it physically or mentally/emotionally...
<shardangeli> it doesn't necessarily make you better, but i think once you're into both, it's impossible to completely separate them.
<blue^^> well jumping right in without knowing what's been said....i'd say the two go GREAT together... for me.. one feeds off the other as the intensity increases so under the right circumstances some form of sexual play is the conclusion (if i'm lucky that is)
* delyssa agrees with blue
<Jenz_boy> I think that they're both tied to our self esteem. For me, being a good "boi" and a desirable lover are both a boost to my self esteem. I also love the sensations, be they shame, pain, pleasure, desire, etc.
<Kilted_One> sex and BDSM need not be one leading to the other at all...although the undercurrent and energy is sexual it doesnt have to lead to sex
<`TimberWolf> ok blue bit can sex preceed you play time though...or does it always follow
<_dove> i live out of a suitcase for a living, if the two were absolutely intertwined, then i could not lead this lifestyle. They are great when combined though *s*
<shardangeli> it depends how you define sex really...
<blue^^> well it's a much better scene.... for me.... if it follows or is part of
<Jenz_boy> Good ping shardangeli
<Kilted_One> do we have to bring in Clinton??
* blue^^ nodsnods at dove
<Jenz_boy> I mean good point . . .
* delyssa tries not to think about cigars
* blue^^ smirks as she thinks about cigars
<shardangeli> that's not what i meant.. i mean if sex is anything arousing, then most BDSM qualifies.. in one sense or another.
* delyssa agrees with shardangeli
<Kilted_One> maybe you are confusing "sexual" with "sex"
<shardangeli> well how would you define sex KO?
<Kilted_One> the US
<delyssa> My first r/l bdsm experience had the limit of no sex/intercourse (in addition to other limits). That didn't mean the experience wasn't sexual/erotic.
<Kilted_One> Army defines it as penetration
<TomDLux> If you define sex as getting a hard-on or fondling tits, or rubbing your cock against someone ... well, for some people that's a munch
* delyssa grins at TomDLux and makes a note not to sit too close to some men at the next munch.
<Kilted_One> to true Tom
<shardangeli> well if sex is just penetrative/oral/manual, then it's easy to separate it, but i think it's hard to desexualize BDSM
<Kilted_One> who is trying too?? Im only trying to make a distinction between sexual and sex...as I said earlier the undercurrent of energy in BDSM is sexual energy, but that doesnt mean to say the it has to involve SEX
<Jenz_boy> I agree with shardangeli. BDSM can be a lot of things, but when BDSM "things" occur in our relationship, I usually get aroused.
<Jenz_boy> I admit that there is a difference between sexual and sex however.
<`TimberWolf> I don't think anyone is saying they don't
<`TimberWolf> or you shouldn't
<`TimberWolf> but does it necessarily have to end in intercourse
<shardangeli> well that's what i'm saying KO... trying to do BDSM without sexual energy is like trying to run a car without gas
<Sweet1`> some people get aroused with an adrenaline rush, so how is that sexual?
<Sweet1`> or how is it not sexual?
<TomDLux> I get a hard-on walking past a college in the spring ... but then, I'm 47. Those 20 year old breasts, I mean girls, ,are cute
<Jenz_boy> I agree that they don't have to end in intercourse always. It is nice sometimes, but other times, just being "of service" is more than enough for me.
<TomDLux> But when I play with someone who is purely a play partner, I'm not thinking about getting themn into bed .... I may not even be interested in the person, in that way. I've scened with men, but no desire for gay sex
<shardangeli> to me BDSM is another kind of sex really...
<`TimberWolf> tell me TomDLux when you scene with men how do you exhaust the sexual energy after...or do you?
<`TimberWolf> or is there even a need
<delyssa> Perhaps at some point in the future, I'll be able to separate sex from bdsm, but for now, they are too closely linked for me to imagine that at this point.
<TomDLux> I have a fun time flogging their back and butt
<TomDLux> Now, I've considered CBT, but never done that .... I would feel a sense of power, but I don't think I would get aroused frromt that ... as for the other person, that's their problem
<`TimberWolf> but doesn';t the sadistic juices stimulate arrousal?
<blue^^> sometimes sexual needs are not the needs being met during a scene
<Jenz_boy> I agree with blue. I have different needs at different times.
<TomDLux> On the other hand, arousal doesn't always have to be satisfied immediately ... having survived my teens, I can cope with walking around with a hardon
<`TimberWolf> lol
<Kilted_One> Sweet1` back to a question that you asked and no one asnswered (relavant to Tom's answer) The power rush is not sexual (neither is the Adrenelin rush either) it is just that a "Power rush" and that is what Tops in it for...hence Tom sceneing with a male...it is the power rush and not sexual at all
<Jenz_boy> Teen's. HELL, what about my 20's!
<TomDLux> 30s? 40s?
<`TimberWolf> 50's too you hope
<Jenz_boy> No insult intended Tom. I'm almost 40.
<krista-F> i can vouch for the 50's.and proudly !
<TomDLux> I do enjoy flogging a female back or butt more than a male one .... even if there's no sex. But that's plain het prejudicec
<Jenz_boy> Hey, my Grandmother is 80 and she would kick all our asses!. I commend and respect people who are kinky and over 30. Right on . . .
* TomDLux plans to ceelebrate his 70th birthday with a cane in one hand,and a cane in the other
<krista-F> you go Sir!!!!!!!!!!
<cynful_cynthia> :)
<TomDLux> Sex and BDSM don't have to go together, can be totally separate ... unless you're doing orgasm training
<TomDLux> But maybe people would like to talk about ways they improve each other?
<cynful_cynthia> I have a question: If BDSM and Sex didn't go together, would we not all be vanilla?
<Kilted_One> I dont think nilla would bind,flog,whip,tie etc
<Jenz_boy> Good point cynthia. I find it more difficult as time goes by to be aroused by non BDSM situations.
<TomDLux> no one says they never go together.... and I must say many of my orgasms involve real or fantasy BDSM ... but most of my BDSM doesn't involve sex
<cynful_cynthia> I guess my being a pain slut, I would expect it always to be together, unless of course I was being punished
<Kilted_One> why do you think they have to go together to be "other than vanilla" cynthia??
<Jenz_boy> Please define "other than vanilla"
<cynful_cynthia> Ummmm Well......I have always been *this* way and....to me BDSM is sexual play
<cynful_cynthia> If pain turns people on.....then it goes to reason that BDSM would involve sex, in my lil perverted mind
<Kilted_One> so there is no power exchange for you cynthia??
<cynful_cynthia> Well....yes but hopefully while he is controling me he is pulling my hair so something......hehehe
<Jenz_boy> To me, it's all about control and needs. I desire to "be controlled", but I have a need to be "wanted" and I often want to be "taken" Not always, but often .
<krista-F> i am a pain slut cynthia....but i do not agree with that statement....
<cynful_cynthia> I like to be ravished, not to know what is next, that is part of it
<Jenz_boy> Oh yes. I am a "hair being pulled" slut . . .
<Kilted_One> so you would only scene with someone that you are going to have sex with cynthia (trying to understand this view)
<TomDLux> All submissives are 'hair pulled' sluts, aren't they?
<TomDLux> and half the vanilla women, too ...
<Jenz_boy> Oh stop it Tom, you're turning me on . . .
<krista-F> god...i have played with people i have never met before.....and many i would never consider having sex with
<cynful_cynthia> Ummmmm well....I could scene with someone else and have sex with Master after
<krista-F> just because a man is good with a whip...does not mean he is good in the sexual dept
<Kilted_One> or wants to be "in' the sexual department after he/she has finished whipping
<cynful_cynthia> If I there was not a sexual attraction......he would not be whipping my ass
<TomDLux> cynthia ... in SF there's a woman, Eve, who goes to the dungeon, soemtimes with her husband, Paul ... she scenes with local doms, then the two of them go home, presumably to fuck like bunnies
<Jenz_boy> Sorry , guys, was disconnected.
<krista-F> and that has very little to do with it for me....brad pitt is very attractive to me.but im not letting him whip me
<Jenz_boy> I agree, I would like to be "taken in hand" by any number of people, as long as it was OK by "Maam".. but I would only avail myself sexualy to "Maam"
<cynful_cynthia> *nod*
<Kilted_One> it would seem that if you are in this for the "sex" then there is no separation between the two, if you are in it for the power exchange then sex is an option but not necessarily mandatory
<_dove> i agree KO
<Kilted_One> so how does someone who is in it for the sex differ from a swinger??
<krista-F> works for me
<delyssa> Speaking only hypothetically, I can easily imagine how bdsm without extensive sexual contact could be quite fulfilling and enriching and educational.
<krista-F> not much..
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<TomDLux> WEll, KO, could be monogamous, Master/Mistress and slave
<_dove> Their bdsm partner may be exclusive KO
<cynful_cynthia> if flogging, paddling, spanking someone causes them to climax.....you can't deny that it has to with sex
<cynful_cynthia> do with sex rather
<Jenz_boy> For me, the power exchange would have to be "in proxy" . That is, my "Maam" defines what get's done to "Her" property.
<Johncin> true cynful_cynthia
<Kilted_One> is that sexual or sex though cynthia??
<krista-F> the difference is great i believe KO
<cynful_cynthia> I think some are just born sexual bdsmers
<Jenz_boy> I believe that all BDSM'rs are "born". It is a calling that can't be explained to others.
<krista-F> bedroom bdsmrs??
<smlpleasure> I think its a ntural progression
<cynful_cynthia> Some make the relationship between sex and BDSM
<Kilted_One> the difference is paramount for us who attend semi private parties (like DAL) Sex is defined as "intercourse....penetration" and as such any activeties that involve this type of play are illegal....but that doesnt preclude us from having very sexual play
<krista-F> yes.......and some do not
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<krista-F> everyone is different..as it should be