December 14, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

<ModBot> This message is generated by Moderator Bot, ModBot for short. I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Introducing New People to the Scene". The moderator is DarkAngel. Enjoy!
<DarkAngel^> in a good way Sweet1` ? ,,,, same here ,, new job
<QuietSoul> and away we go
<Omy> The Ottawa invasion DA is at ten people for the workshop and party so far. Going to do one last post and then send the list in...Is Thursday ok?
* ``melody grins wickedly as she looks DA over
<Sweet1`> yes a very good way
<DarkAngel^> thursday works Omy
* ``melody tackle hugs Mistress_Carole
<DarkAngel^> Hello all and welcome to tonights discussion
<DarkAngel^> "Introducing New People to the Scene" - does anyone have any opening comments ?
<QuietSoul> so in light of what is happening on EHBC in regards to Steeletoe, i think this topic is very important tonight
<QuietSoul> I think newbies, like myself, should be aware of guidelines, protocol and ettiquette
<QuietSoul> when first coming in
<DarkAngel^> in what regard QuietSoul (refraining from gossiping on a specific topic from an event pls)
<QuietSoul> i just mean that some people who are new might not be consicouly aware of certain protocols that's all
<QuietSoul> and they should be made aware of them.
<DarkAngel^> how can a newbie do so QuietSoul ? .... taking an active part in learning such topics ?
<QuietSoul> asking would be the first step
<Omy> I agree in Ottawa we are dealign with the same issue...all these new people coming in and wondering abour ettiquette and protocol and getting 6 different answers
<DarkAngel^> so are you saying the ownus is on "oldies" to educate newbies ?
<Omy> I believe that is exactly what I am saying DA
<QuietSoul> in some ways yes, but it is also the ownus on newbies to be educated before coming in
<Mistress_Carole> how QuietSoul? who are they going to learn from, if not the "oldies?"
<``melody> I think patience is the key.. someone time oldie or newbie we need to sit back and listen before speaking
<melissa{G}> which brings us to another difficulty, though......there are many versions of "correct" behavior in our lifestyle
<QuietSoul> well some sites have links to educational sites on the lifestyle
<QuietSoul> that would be a good place to start
<melissa{G}> although some basic rules would certainly apply
<DarkAngel^> ok ,, I agree with you both personally.... I like to see a newbie asking questions ,, educating themselves ,, I also like seeing (and on occasion have done so myself) those more experienced passing on their experiance
<QuietSoul> i think a good balance of both is needed and would help.
<Omy> Teaching has its own rewards ;>
<``melody> why not be friendly and lead by example
<DarkAngel^> care to elaborate on the basic ones melissa{G} ?
<Mistress_Carole> unfortunately, just cuz someone is an "oldie" doesn't mean they're a "goodie" ... there are some pretty weird people who've been in the lifestyle for ages....
<QuietSoul> But is it easier for a Sub to be introduced to the lifestlye as a newbie or a Dom?
<Omy> That is part of it mel.
<Sweet1`> ain't that the truth
<DarkAngel^> thank you Mistress_Carole ,,,
<Mistress_Carole> ;) I knew you'd like that DA
* DarkAngel^ <-- an oldie , but definetly not a goodie
<melissa{G}> i have always kept that the "golden rule" is a good spot to start, DarkAngel^ unto others, etc
<Mistress_Carole> but, "do unto others" doesn't APPLY in our situation
<arhiannah> that golden rule could get me into a mess of
<Mistress_Carole> it should be "do unto others as they would HAVE you do unto them"
<DarkAngel^> I think ask but dont touch is good
<melissa{G}> when it comes to mutal respect and limit setting it could, Mistress_Carole
<Mistress_Carole> I mean, if you want to be spanked, so you spank ME to get me to do it to you........ LOL
<Sweet1`> basic respect goes a long way
<Omy> Keeping ones hands to yourself
<DarkAngel^> lol ,,, ok,, so any more thoughts on a newbie comming in and protocol ?
<QuietSoul> But are there really any true rules or hierarchy that needs to be obeyed in this lifestyle
<DarkAngel^> definetly
<Mistress_Carole> I love the concept of mentoring
<Omy> me too Mistress_Carole
<melissa{G}> i was terrified at the first public event that i attended.......shook nearly the entire time......
<DarkAngel^> how about the problems of a newbie going from online to R/L ?
<Mistress_Carole> I think the biggest rule should be "if you don't know/understand..... ASK!"
<melissa{G}> and i attended with people known to the lifestyle who were watching over me
<Omy> I wonder if its not better that a new person be set up with an experienced person for a short period of time to show them the ropes
<``melody> I believe in mentoring and try to guide people that are new to our community ,towards those who are willing to share theyr knowledge
<Mistress_Carole> again, the problem is this: not necessarily every person who WANTS to mentor... should.
<QuietSoul> I think if the person on line has formed a good friendship with someone online that they feel comfortable and have met for say a coffee in a safe public place the transition should be smooth
<``melody> learning is life long.. admittedly I have learned a great deal from those just new
<Mistress_Carole> the problem is going from the fantasy of online to the reality of r/l.... a lot of what occurs online is impractical/impossible RT
<melissa{G}> i would think that one of the largest hurdles in that situation, DarkAngel^ could be false expectations......
<QuietSoul> true in some respects
<melissa{G}> my thought exactly, Mistress_Carole
<DarkAngel^> very true ``melody
<QuietSoul> you have to be a realist, even in this day and age of cyber technology
<DarkAngel^> and some people are actually only looking for that fantacy
<Mistress_Carole> the other thing is that the protocols and ettiquette of online do NOT translate into RT. I do NOT expect every submissive to call me Ma'am in R/L .... in fact, I'd probably get annoyed really quickly... LOL
<QuietSoul> lol...but also every group has its own set of protocols as well and unwritten rules
<QuietSoul> which brings me back to hierarchy
<Mistress_Carole> so maybe the rules need to be written.
<Mistress_Carole> just like play party rules are written
<QuietSoul> does a newbie need to know the hierarachy
<Sweet1`> the onus should be on each individual group to post their rules
<DarkAngel^> how do you mean each group has it's own rules QuietSoul ?
<Omy> I don't know that we have a hierarchy
<``melody> maybe we also need to be more accepting in someways.. of the differences.. some are low protocol and others very high protocol..
<Mistress_Carole> that depends, QuietSoul, on the group... for instance, DA's been around for eternity. In fact, he's older than God. but he's not the boss of our world.... LOL
<melissa{G}> who would decide the hierarchy?
<QuietSoul> i just mean that what one area of ontario might do or expect, might not be the same as other areas
<DarkAngel^> I personally preffer zero hierarchy
<QuietSoul> as do I
<DarkAngel^> hell no Mistress_Carole
<``melody> noone decides it just happens.. people who are more actve tend to float to the top
<QuietSoul> true
<DarkAngel^> lol ,, actually,, I distrust people who like being in charge for the sake of being in charge
<Mistress_Carole> there are people we just "assume" are the bosses.... but they're not really, they're just the movers & shakers
<DarkAngel^> HEY !! ,, wait a minute ,, I am only 21
* Mistress_Carole winks at DA
<QuietSoul> yes that defeats the whole purpose and puts off alot of people especially someone new to the scene
<cynful_cynthia> We had a phone call from the host of the first event we attended, he told us the rules and answered all our questions, the greeted us at the door. It made us feel so comfortable and welcome at Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
<``melody> oh of course DA and I am 18
<QuietSoul> i think for a newbie, they should be introduced to people in a natural environment
<Omy> 29th year anniversay you say mel?
* DarkAngel^ makes a not to call cynful_cynthia and talk dirty to her
<IndianSir> I've never attended a munch, but would like to, its just that I don't know anyone at any of the munches personally
<yummistletoe> IndianSir, if you go to one you can remedy that
<cynful_cynthia> *blush*
* ``melody eys Omy.. I know where you live Sir
<QuietSoul> in a play setting they should maybe watch for awhile, get into a comfort zone and then participate
<IndianSir> how do you mean yummistletoe
<DarkAngel^> Munches are ,,,, IMHO ,, the very BEST places for newbies to enter the community
<Mistress_Carole> I don't believe in "no hierarchy" ... I would like to see a tiny bit more formality. One newbie I met at a munch was very uncomfortable because he didn't know who were Dom/mes and who were subs....
<Mistress_Carole> and how to act with either of them
<yummistletoe> go to a munch and you'll make friends IndianSir.. only the first one is hard to go to.. after the first one you know people
<QuietSoul> I agree DA
<IndianSir> ok
<aurelle> i agree
<IndianSir> alot of people have told Me that on here
<Omy> that or a meet ang greet DA...that worked out well here
<yummistletoe> or meet someone near you IndianSir before the first munch.. quite often folks will meet you outside or at the coffee shop next door (aka Timmies) and walk in with you
<DarkAngel^> As a Munch Host,, I make it a habit of looking for the scared, shy, new people ,,, and introducing myself
<QuietSoul> But it is easier for a Sub Newbie or easier for a Dom newbie
<Mistress_Carole> so THAT'S where all the newbies keep going, DA!
<IndianSir> because well I'll be honest
<Mistress_Carole> I don't know if it's easier for either QuietSoul, in particular
<Mistress_Carole> a Dom/me newbie has a lot more "expecations" put upon them
<aurelle> i think both sides if the coin offer their own challenges
<yummistletoe> what is the real issue IndianSir?
<IndianSir> sometimes when I talk in the local channels its hard because I don't know A/anyone and its hard to join the conversation on the channels
<Mistress_Carole> I have a trick for that IndianSir...
<Mistress_Carole> just pretend like you know everyone and jump in like an idiot. it's fun!
<DarkAngel^> newbies are -- as in any comunity, city, country (even babies who are - well new); the future and life of the community
<yummistletoe> i rarely do some of the local channels for that very reason IndianSir, they can be a wee bit cliquish
<QuietSoul> but I think a Sub Newbie is easier to bring in then a Dom Newbie. Mistress Carole was right, a Newbie Dom has more expecatations placed on them
<DarkAngel^> yes Mistress_Carole ,, I eat the cute ones
<QuietSoul> sort of walk the walk as it were
<Mistress_Carole> oooh, oooh, if I pretend to be a newbie would you... er.... never mind.
<``melody> it can be uncomfortable when it seems everyone knows each other... believe me when I say.. you will be dragged into conversation quite soon at a munch
<IndianSir> heh I'll keep thaat in mind DarkAngel
<yummistletoe> munches are friendlier than online i think IndianSir
<yummistletoe> and if you are near KW the one there is excellent
<Mistress_Carole> I think so too yummistletoe
<QuietSoul> but what happens with and over excited newbie?
<Mistress_Carole> munches are fun
<DarkAngel^> I agree with yummistletoe ,, very friendly
<Mistress_Carole> and if all else fails, you can get your coffee and run like hell
<melissa{G}> i suspect that you would enjoy a munch very much IndianSir .......
<yummistletoe> trust me IndianSir, you won't be able to stand alone at that munch if you want to.. you'll be too busy meeting new friends
<melissa{G}> gives you the chance to chat with people and get to know them before you attend a fete
<IndianSir> hope they got baileys in the coffee heh
<yummistletoe> its a bar
<Mistress_Carole> well, QuietSoul... a lot of times it helps to have someone experienced just chat with them and calm them down a bit....
<melissa{G}> the hardest event is always the first
<DarkAngel^> on a similar note ,, I think a Play Party is NOT a good first environment for a newbie ,,, unless they had a "mentor" or friend who was going to be ther to hold their hand
<Mistress_Carole> oh, totally DA
<Omy> I agree DA
<Mistress_Carole> it can be far too overwhelming
<QuietSoul> I agree
<Sweet1`> depends on the person...not everyone is looking for the chit chat
<DarkAngel^> lol ,,, even as a second or third event I have discovered personally
<cynful_cynthia> yes, better to go with someone to your first play party
<Mistress_Carole> and "just to watch"
<IndianSir> ok cool
<subcdn> a play party can be totally overwelming to the senses
<melissa{G}> my first event was a play party, DA.....with friends
<Omy> And as I have found our DA...even at that, a play party can be overwelming for those new to the lifestyle
* shado scratches play parties off her lists
<aurelle> two people i met at a munch took me to my first play party
<melissa{G}> and still very intense......
<DarkAngel^> and how was it for you aurelle ?
<Mistress_Carole> there are people who have been in the lifestyle for ages, and still don't play at public events...
<melissa{G}> the noises alone can be very disconcerting........
* Mistress_Carole likes the noises
<cynful_cynthia> I have chatted more at play parties than munches, in fact I felt more included perhaps we picked the wrong munches to go to
* ``melody grins.. i like noise
* cynful_cynthia likes the noise
<aurelle> i thought it was fantastic, but then again im a social butterfly
<DarkAngel^> lol ,,, ``melody ,, you ARE the noise *Evil WInk*
<aurelle> i was nervous, but also in awe
<aurelle> lol
<Omy> 1Laughing 140ut 1Loud DA
<cynful_cynthia> You hear it before you see it.....*grin*
<aurelle> there were lots of people to speak with and you are exposed to the different styles and possibilities
* Omy waits for mels' inevitable...but Sir I'm a delicate flower comment
<Mistress_Carole> sometimes watching a particular scene can be extremely educational, inspiring, scary... some scenes can turn people off the lifestyle right away, if they don't understand the background of the players
* ``melody ponders this a monet.. that I can be lol
<DarkAngel^> true Mistress_Carole
<QuietSoul> but also some people can turn someone off the lifestyle as well
* Mistress_Carole highfives QuietSoul
<IndianSir> are there any signs in the playrooms that might give warning or is it more of a at your own risk thing a party
<Mistress_Carole> yes, they can
<DarkAngel^> I have been getting better QuietSoul
<QuietSoul> lol
<Omy> Your own risk IndianSir
<QuietSoul> actually I find DA a great host and easy to talk to
<QuietSoul> very approachable
<Mistress_Carole> I've seen some play areas that are curtained off... with warning labels... but it's rare
<IndianSir> ok
<aurelle> that he is
<DarkAngel^> QuietSoul ,, sshhhhh you will ruin my rep
<QuietSoul> lol
<Omy> The play area I have been to are wide open you see everything at once
* aurelle withholds comment
<IndianSir> haha
<QuietSoul> so what happens if a newbie makes a big error in judgement, are they banished for life or can they make amends and if so how?
<Mistress_Carole> there are very few "forever" mistakes
<DarkAngel^> going to a Play Party is a risk for the person ,,, it is up to them to prepare/educate themselves ,, and go with friends for support
<Omy> Well i think that depends on what the error was
<Mistress_Carole> besides, we don't police ourselves.
<Mistress_Carole> I keep asking, because I want to be the executioner....
<QuietSoul> ah...but some do
<QuietSoul> police themselves that is
<DarkAngel^> that said ,, there has been discussion to keep play "toned down" so not to scare newbies ... any thoughts ?
<Mistress_Carole> NO.
<Omy> NO!
<subcdn> no
* cynful_cynthia remembers the live cutting on stage and close ups being shown on the big screen tv at Reverb, that might scare a newbie. I didn't find it entertaining while others did
<QuietSoul> i don't think you need to tone it down
<melissa{G}> that would be unfairly restricting the players
<QuietSoul> you are what you are, you play how you play, that is the nature of the beast
<Omy> The play partoes are for the PLAYERS if it were for the would be called a NEWBIE party
<Mistress_Carole> I have had people ask me to tone it down because I'm "annoying" the other players.... LOL
<DarkAngel^> good to hear people
<Mistress_Carole> and that I'm breaking the furniture...
<_dove> DAL was my first 'outing', other than the picnic, DA, i don't see why it should be toned down - isn't it representative of the lifestyle that i'm headed into?
<DarkAngel^> Speaking as the Host of DAL ,,, lol,, I get some very very NASTY looks from spectators who have to be warned to keep quiet ,,, I ALWAYS protect the Play
<Mistress_Carole> I don't really know dove... it's not as sexual as what you're really heading into...
<cynful_cynthia> I was a Newbie to public playing yet had 25 years experience on private playing.
<subcdn> most parties have similar do's and dont's
<IndianSir> someone was upset at the fact that their 'confidentiality was breached' by someone telling others about what they saw the other person doing...however aren't the parties at your own risk even when it comes to confidentiality?
<melissa{G}> it's certainly a good way to see how others play, become familiar with different aspects playing.....different techniques, etc
<cynful_cynthia> Newbie to the public scene does not always mean newbie to BDSM
<Mistress_Carole> you sign a waiver at the door saying "keep what you see, here."
<QuietSoul> see that's what I mean about Policing IndianSir, for that very reason
<Mistress_Carole> but nobody will be banned for that.
<DarkAngel^> not necessarily IndianSir ,,, yes people might talk ,, BUT - if people wish to gossip, they risk being BANNED from attending the very events they gossiped about
<Omy> No IndianSir...If you goto a private event you keep it private
<``melody> ok sometimes people inadvertantly out themselves.. in the end police yourself if you afraid of being outed dont go'
<IndianSir> ok I see
<DarkAngel^> they will from DAL Mistress_Carole
* Mistress_Carole wants to see 3 names of people who were every actually banned for talking about an event
<QuietSoul> and if you have erred, have the maturity to admit it and make ammends for it
<QuietSoul> and move foward
<aurelle> wouldn't that be outing people then?
<Mistress_Carole> LOL
<DarkAngel^> Mistress_Carole ,,, sorry ,, banns arent published for community entertainment
<QuietSoul> i think a newbie should not be subject to "High School Hijinks" when entering the scene for the first time, makes for bad press
<cynful_cynthia> lol
<DarkAngel^> lol
<IndianSir> heh
<Mistress_Carole> I'm not interested in the entertainment factor, I'm thinking "hell, if he's banned from DAL, what the hell is he doing at KNaNO?"
<aurelle> how do you mean?
<IndianSir> eeks
<DarkAngel^> now that I have never heard of QuietSoul ,,, how so ? (getting out a pen and paper)
<aurelle> isn't there a system for informing other events
<Omy> I'd say probably behaving himself Mistress_Carole
<QuietSoul> i just don't think a newbie should come into a scene and listen to other piss and moan about someone else who may or may not be doing something wrong or listneing to others spreading gossip
<DarkAngel^> sorry Mistress_Carole ,, banns are a different topic and up to the events ,, not up for public vote ,,, lol
<Mistress_Carole> it would be nice, Omy, in a perfect world, eh? but then, in a perfect world (or at least MY version of perfection) none of us would need to WORRY about what other people thought about our lifestyles
<Omy> true Carole
<QuietSoul> my feeling is we are equal players here, just some have more experience then others
<``melody> well QuietSoul tell me a place where people dont piss and moan about others I wanna a job house and a community center there
<IndianSir> what are the age groups at munches usually?
<Mistress_Carole> LOL QuietSoul... any time you get 3 people together, you're going to get that the minute one of them walks away
* cynful_cynthia thought that Respect was a given for people in the scene
<DarkAngel^> has anyone heard of a newbie who really really screwed up at an event ? ... IMO I think they actually would try to be the best behaved
<QuietSoul> lol
<QuietSoul> well actually yes I have
<aurelle> i think newbies are usually too intimidated to screw up badly
<Mistress_Carole> NEWBIES aren't the problem at events, usually.
<``melody> I know one that walked equipment across the room
<Omy> Actually need not look farther then Ottawa to answer that question
<``melody> not newbie but new to that community
<aurelle> mel its different when you'rep laying
<MasterGuny> that was not a newbie
<DarkAngel^> ok,, does anyone have any advice for bringing a newbie out to their first event ?
<_dove> Don't leave them alone
<Mistress_Carole> besides, screwing up big time at an event usually means "not taking no for an answer," "not honouring a safe call," "not listening to the DM" etc
<aurelle> forwarn then
<aurelle> them
<melissa{G}> or at least keep an eye on them
<QuietSoul> Speak to them first, let them know what is going to go on inside
<Mistress_Carole> don't give them to ME! <evil grin>
<QuietSoul> and reassurance
<cynful_cynthia> Tell them to observe and act respectful of others
<melissa{G}> let them know what they may see
<subcdn> take them to one of the smaller munches first
<melissa{G}> if at a play party
<DarkAngel^> true Mistress_Carole ,,, and honestly ,, reading an events House Rules gets them ready and aware of most things
<Omy> I'd cover do's and don'ts and give them some kind of discrete signal that would indicate that they need to leave
<_dove> Be ready to answer a LOT of questions *s*
<aurelle> give them websites and other forms of info for them to acquaint themselves
<melissa{G}> keep an eye on them for signs that they are not coping well......or are being overloaded
<QuietSoul> if they wish to leave, respect that wish
<DarkAngel^> excelent advice
<Mistress_Carole> tell them that they are ALLOWED to say "no" ... politely
<cynful_cynthia> that is a good point, aurelle
<Omy> Do be courteous and polite...don't touch other people without permission
<IndianSir> should an experienced Dom introduce a newbie Dom and an experienced sub introduce a newbie sub?
<QuietSoul> both i think
<DarkAngel^> now new line of discussion ,,,, how do you "turn" a loved one "to the Dark side" *Evil Smile*
<Mistress_Carole> I think the best possible arrangement is for an experienced sub to introduce people new to the scene.
<QuietSoul> use the force
<Mistress_Carole> let them smell your leather?
<DarkAngel^> consensual force that is ,, lol
<QuietSoul> lol
<QuietSoul> communication is a good start
<DarkAngel^> any other ideas ?
<Mistress_Carole> tickle them till they can't sit still with your bunnyfur flogger!
<DarkAngel^> lol
<Omy> that depends Mistress_Carole...sometimes that's a good idea and sometimes its depends on the personality match
<QuietSoul> showing them things like the EHBC or DAL websites for examples
<Mistress_Carole> let them read "screw the roses, send me the thorns"
<Mistress_Carole> highlight the good bits
<cynful_cynthia> :)
* DarkAngel^ has the whole book highlighted
<QuietSoul> I would not reccomend at first anyway an episode of KINK
<Mistress_Carole> have them watch "Secretary" with you, see if any of the scenes make them squirm
<_dove> find something that could appeal to them, and grow from there
<QuietSoul> until prepared mentally
<QuietSoul> maybe spank them playfully one night to see if they like ti
<Mistress_Carole> oh, I'd watch that
<DarkAngel^> now an evil twist ,,,,, what if the person is family and they express an interest ,,,, do you keep them out to protect yourself?
<IndianSir> I don't like to be spanked heh
<Mistress_Carole> I didn't.
<QuietSoul> no, because my cousin got me into the lifestyle
<Mistress_Carole> my father asked, I told.
<cynful_cynthia> selfish side
<Mistress_Carole> he ran... then came back and asked again
<Mistress_Carole> nosy bugger
<DarkAngel^> lol
<Mistress_Carole> I don't think I'd want my daughters coming to the same play party as me...
<DarkAngel^> it has been a topic on a few of the lists regarding the next generation comming up ,,,, and intruding upon parents lifestyle
<QuietSoul> i guess when it comes to a family member things like a munch are fine, but seeing them ata play party might be a little unsettling
<subcdn> why would you not introduce a family member to the like style if they're interested
<Mistress_Carole> yeah, "GIVE MOM BACK HER FLOGGER!!"
<DarkAngel^> lol
<Omy> well as an organiser DA would you prevent the child from attending if the Mother asked you?
<Mistress_Carole> because I don't believe in flaunting ANY aspect of my sexuality in front of my children, even if they are adult and aware of it.
<IndianSir> blah
<DarkAngel^> no Omy ,,, if a person was of age to attend my event(s) ,, I would not impinge upon their rights
<IndianSir> I agree Mistress Carole
<QuietSoul> i think it's one of those un-spoken barriers... "gee i don't want to see mom and dad doing that!"
<Mistress_Carole> just as much as I don't want to see THEIRS!
<melissa{G}> and there is no way i could wrap my mind around my mother at a fete
<DarkAngel^> barriers that a family wished to structure and respect of each other ,,, kewl ,, but I as Host cannot unless a rule were impinged
<Mistress_Carole> besides, george would skin the poor bugger alive that tried to top our daughters.
<DarkAngel^> IMO ,, that is up to the adult family members to sort out ,, not put upon a poor Host/Hostess to mediate
<Mistress_Carole> exactly DA, not your problem
<subcdn> Mistress_Carole: suppose your daughter is a Domme
<QuietSoul> and that could make for a very uncomfortable scenario especially in the aftermath
<Mistress_Carole> well, I'm rather assuming she will be.
<Mistress_Carole> ;)
<Mistress_Carole> at which point, george would probably say "give him one for ME, hon!"
<aurelle> lol
<QuietSoul> lol
<subcdn> lol
<`abi> something wrong with being a submissive?
<QuietSoul> the apple very rarely falls far from the tree
<subcdn> abi> not at all
<Mistress_Carole> oh, absolutely not.... but george has this thing about boys getting near his little girls.... LOL
<DarkAngel^> I like the structure of dealing with issues at DAL that KO has set up since inception over 3 years ago ,,, if there is a problem ,, everyone gets tossed out
<Mistress_Carole> oh, that's GOOD Da.
<Mistress_Carole> DA even
* aurelle chuckles...but what if you have a room?
<Omy> Were you about to call DA daddy Carole?
<DarkAngel^> is true Mistress_Carole ,,, lol ,, I often get people telling me that so and so is no longer with them ,, and they ASSUME he/she will try something at DAL
* Mistress_Carole tries hard not to make more age jokes at DA's expense, she really does
<QuietSoul> rooms can be fun
<Mistress_Carole> oh, I HATE the he said/she said crap.... LOL
<DarkAngel^> responce is always the same ,,, the reporting perty is informed that BOTH will be watched ,, and if anything occurs ,, BOTH will be tossed
<DarkAngel^> lol
<Mistress_Carole> I'm the sorta person who'd say "look, this event is for ADULTS only... maybe you should leave...." LOL
<DarkAngel^> aurelle ,, if they have a room at DAL ,, they are still bound by the rools ,, and the room rules state if they screw up - booted with no refund *Evil Legal Smile*
<IndianSir> what is DAL?
<DarkAngel^> ok,,, any further advice about bringing newbies into the lifestyle ? .. not necessarily to events
<aurelle> i was being sarcastic ...."everyone is tossed" as in everyone at the party
<QuietSoul> Well i think rule #1 applies: Go SLOW
<Omy> lots of communication and patience
<Mistress_Carole> help them to go slow.... they'll want to do EVERYTHING all at once... help them to pace themselves
<Mistress_Carole> I like you QuietSoul, we think alike...
<QuietSoul> :) thank you
<DarkAngel^> excellent
<QuietSoul> I;m still in my education mode with the lifestyle
<DarkAngel^> good advice all
<Mistress_Carole> most of us stay in education mode for the majority of our experiences in this lifestyle...
<aurelle> i think it is very important to do more listening than speaking in terms of helping a newbie
<Omy> I have seen that...its a good point.,..some newbies come rushing in like a bull in a china shop.
<DarkAngel^> actually ,, I use my membership ,, if I see someone local (Dom,Domme,sub or switch) I send them a "hello from the community" form letter with links to ehbc, dssg and a definition of what a munch is
<Mistress_Carole> well, part of the problem is this: "Ok, I'm here to help, what do you want to know?" "EVERYTHING!" "Oh, gawd help me...."
<aurelle> its great to spew info to them, but you need to address their questions
<QuietSoul> actually i think one of the workshops that sould be taught should be "Group Dynamics 101"
<Mistress_Carole> I want a workshop called "Oh My God, my partner/spouse discovered BDSM, NOW what the hell do I do?"
<QuietSoul> Hand them a flogger and say, "go to work"
<Mistress_Carole> :D
<DarkAngel^> well QuietSoul ,, I preffer to educate a newbie who is obviously trying to educate themselves (as you obviously are)
<cynful_cynthia> bend over?
<_dove> Your name is mentioned often in alt DA
<QuietSoul> and that is what i am looking for DA
<DarkAngel^> all bad I hope _dove
<_dove> of course DA
<Omy> That's Dark Angel _dove not an acronym dor Dumb Ass
<aurelle> lol
<_dove> lol
<cynful_cynthia> *giggle*
<DarkAngel^> lol
<QuietSoul> so do we have a three strike rule in the lifestyle?
<QuietSoul> no pun intended
<Mistress_Carole> not that I'm aware of...
<DarkAngel^> no QuietSoul ,, I usually hit subs more
<_dove> lol
<Mistress_Carole> I'm SURE I've ticked people off more than three times, and I'm still here
<DarkAngel^> I think it depends upon the issue
<QuietSoul> true
<Mistress_Carole> there are definitely "one strike you're out" issues
<DarkAngel^> we are getting close to the end ,,, does anyone have a different line of discussion on bringing newbies in that we havent talked about yet ?
<aurelle> lol
<aurelle> what about if someone from outside approaches you but are unaware that you are a lifestyler
<DarkAngel^> "Introducing New People to the Scene"
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<Omy> what about education...shouldn't we be holding information sessions for them?
<Mistress_Carole> they have to know where to look to find them
<QuietSoul> yes i think so. We should even have kind of a graduation ceremony for newbies, especially the Dom's
* Mistress_Carole likes that idea
<DarkAngel^> true Omy ,,, I think both the and the Safe SM Group of the Toronto ACT group both do great jobs of a SM 101
<aurelle> there are info sessions
<Omy> We are going to try here to hold an information session before a meet and greet...see how that works
<DarkAngel^> the DSSG hold a Beginner's Workshop 2 to 4 times a year
<Omy> yes bit that's held only once or twice a year DA
<DarkAngel^> well we also used to do a beginners before each KNaNO ,,, no one was showing ,, so we stopped
<Mistress_Carole> I think the beginners workshops are a great idea, but they skip over so much important stuff... sure, it teaches you what BDSM is, and how to safely tie someone up and some basic techniques.... but.... there is so much more than that.
<DarkAngel^> perhaps we could ask for to see if the desire is there ,, and resurect them for the January DAL
<QuietSoul> My own opinion. A course in Ettiquette is really needed.
<DarkAngel^> that is as much as "the community" can really do for newbies Mistress_Carole ,, other than that ,, the newbies have to find helpfull individuals IMO
<MasterGuny> we do that at the Protocol meetings in Oshawa
<aurelle> everyone has a dif opinion of etiquette
<DarkAngel^> QuietSoul ,,, there will be a High Protocol workshop in London in 2004 ,, June looks to be the semi schedule
<QuietSoul> good
<Mistress_Carole> exactly aurelle...
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to DarkAngel for moderating, and to everyone who participated.
<Mistress_Carole> so my version of ettiquette is quite different than everyone else's... and everyone trips over everyone else's "brand" of protocols...