December 12, 1999 EhBC Online Discussion

<BernieRoehl> Well, it's now 9 pm and time for our regular weekly chat
<BernieRoehl> I've set the following auto-message for the channel...
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm.  Also note that the discussion is being logged.  If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick.  We recommend using as your server, to minimize lag.  Tonight's discussion topic is "Opening Night -- Roleplaying in BDSM".  The moderator tonight is BernieRoehl.  Enjoy the discussion!
<EmpoweredOne> thnak u abi
<BernieRoehl> Just for some background... the topic was first suggested by someone who wanted some advice on how to make their roleplaying more "real", and intense
<BernieRoehl> So, who here has experimented with roleplaying in some form or another?
* SirDirk raises a hand
* sweetslave{AF} nods
<BernieRoehl> How has it worked out for you?
* elegantsarah has
<SirDirk> It's gone well in the past...and there have been times that it hasn't gone so well.
<sweetslave{AF}> for me is was while i was on the gorean channels...the rituals specifically
<BernieRoehl> Any feeling for what makes it work or not work, SirDirk?
<elegantsarah> The times it has gone the best have been times when the roles were pretty laid out
<sweetslave{AF}> but it didnt take away from what i was there to learn
<SirDirk> Personally I'd have to say it all comes down to who you are and who your playing with, as well as what roles you both take on. The time that it didn't go well over all for me was a Kidnap scenario that was played out over an entire weekend. 
<BernieRoehl> Kidnap scenarios are very difficult to stage -- lots and lots of prep work needed
<SirDirk> And what didn't go well was the fact that the sub in the scenario...continually pushed me from the start saying I couldn't be realistic about it. When I personally knew that i could. Having been trained in Drama from the age of 12. It's not hard for me to slip into a role and put the me away on a shelf.
<SirDirk> It eventually ended up in the scenario being TO REAL for her..and her not willing to back down from it.
<SirDirk> So I put a stop to it after 24 hours.
<BernieRoehl> So why did she not want to accept the reality of it initially?
<SirDirk> It wasn't that she didn't want to accept the reality of it.
<SirDirk> It was before the scene...
<SirDirk> and we were discussing things and talking things through
<SirDirk> and she just didn't realise HOW real it would be
<BernieRoehl> So she went from saying that you couldn't be realistic about it, to saying that it ws more real than she was expecting?
<SirDirk> The psychological of it..not the physical...the physical wasn't strenuous on her or I at all...but the mental was very hard on her
<SirDirk> Yes she did
* SirDirk nods
<SirDirk> The degree of roleplaying and the various depths it can be taken to..can be hard..or easy on someone.
<SirDirk> Depending on what it is you both agree on from the start....
<SirDirk> I'd suggest that someone not push for something they themselves aren't sure they could handle
<BernieRoehl> Do you feel there was enough pre-scene discussion?
<SirDirk> Because it can be very realistic if played out properly
<SirDirk> I feel that there was MORE then enough pre-scene did she..that was one of the first questions I asked her afterwards
<`abi> what would you do differently next time SirDirk?
* SirDirk thinks
<SirDirk> Not take my role to such depths I think...not play out the psychological of it to the extent that it can be played out. Of course this all depends on the other person in the scenario..and it's an individual basis that you have to judge all of this on
<BernieRoehl> Would you consider doing another scene like that with the same submissive?
<SirDirk> Now? No. We ended our relationship about 5 months after this...which had nothing to do with the scene at all. 
<SirDirk> If we had stayed together?
<SirDirk> Probably..but definately not to the extent we did
<BernieRoehl> sarah, you mentioned that you had also done some roleplaying.  Can you tell us more about that?
<BernieRoehl> And sweetslave, what sort of gorean rituals were you involved in?
<elegantsarah> I had a friend with whom I felt very comfortable. We never did any extended role play, more of an eveing but the scenario was laid out quite well so that our roles were set before he arrived
<BernieRoehl> And it worked for you?
<sweetslave{AF}> i was referring to the serving rituals, the referance to various themes written about in the badly written books
* BernieRoehl nods
<elegantsarah> Oh yes.....but then in some ways, just being submissive is a roleplay.....I mean it is real but it is not howq I live my day to day life
<BernieRoehl> In a sense, that's very true for all of us sarah.
<SirDirk> I have a love for Drama at times..but for me personally the gorean pill is a hard one to swallow.
<_^Hercules^_> i see it the other way around...i am a submissive, always...the rest of life is a role play :)
<BernieRoehl> Of course, in some sense it's exactly the opposite -- I am who I am in scene, and my day-to-day life at work and what not is the role I play during the day.
<elegantsarah> I caouldn't do the gorean thing either
* _^Hercules^_ high fives BernieRoehl
* BernieRoehl laughs and returns Hercules' high five
<sweetslave{AF}> the terminology can be a pain...however it did teach me more about my own submission in particular than any bdsm channels i visited at the time 2 yrs ago
<SirDirk> I love the ideas of some of the slave positions and the entire thought of slavery...but the repetitiveness of gor..and the demand to continually do the exact samet hings over and over..are for me a dry thing.
<BernieRoehl> I think gor is probably worth a discussion night of its own
<SirDirk> Yes I agree Bernie
<SirDirk> Let me know what date that discussion is.
* SirDirk smils
<SirDirk> I'll be sure to be out of the house.
<BernieRoehl> Will do!
* SirDirk laughs
* BernieRoehl laughs
<BernieRoehl> So when you say the roles were well laid out, sarah, what do you mean?
* elegantsarah thinks
<BernieRoehl> Do you mean that you had actual characters specfied?
<elegantsarah> I question much in life, to be the unquestioning submissive or in one case. we played out a pick up in a bar which turned into a bdsm scene, that is not something I would do normally
<elegantsarah> we all have fantasies but to pretend that the other is a is living out a fantasy that is very powerful
<sweetslave{AF}> i would think it would be
<BernieRoehl> It's very liberating, being strangers for a night.
<BernieRoehl> It lets you get rid of any preconceived ideas, habits, patterns... a way to get out of a rut.
<elegantsarah> oh yes, it allows one to be an animal in a sense
<BernieRoehl> And also a chance to explore new territory, to do things that the two of you wouldn't normally do.
<SirDirk> Animal..hehe
<SirDirk> Done that been there
* SirDirk smiles at the thought of puppygirl training
<sweetslave{AF}> it would allow one to express things about themselves that they may otherwise feel inhibited to do
<BernieRoehl> Exactly.
<BernieRoehl> People could do something because in some sense it's "not them"
<elegantsarah> oh yeah well, so have I.....but therte is something about playing the whole thing out, inviting som,eone back for a drink and then being tied have to relinquish the thought that this is just roleplay
<lilac{J}> it's a bit like wearing a mask or a costume
<BernieRoehl> Did you have much discussion beforehand, sarah, as to what sort of people these two strangers would be?
<BernieRoehl> Yes -- in theatre it's called "willing suspension of disbelief".  Letting go of the idea that "it's just roleplaying".
<SirDirk> We were taught about the X factor...seperating ones true self from ones as to not let the two intermingle to much...
<elegantsarah> well, of course we's rather reminiscent of bodice rippers *L*
* BernieRoehl smiles
<BernieRoehl> So how did your character for that night differ from your normal self?
<elegantsarah> one demures while having raging hormones or whatever you want to call what happens
* sweetslave{AF} is sorry but must leave to prepare to go to work.....
* BernieRoehl nods
<BernieRoehl> What about your play-partner?  How did he differ from his regular self?
<elegantsarah> I wouldn't be demure *L*....although to some extent I play a role in life where I look quite conservative though I never really act that way
<elegantsarah> He was actually quite a laid back guy
* BernieRoehl nods
<BernieRoehl> And in scene, he was...?
<BernieRoehl> Does anyone have any fantasies that they have always wanted to act out, but haven't been able to for one reason or another?
* `abi smiles...yes...I don't bend that way anymore :)
* BernieRoehl laughs
<BernieRoehl> I was thinking more in terms of roleplaying fantasies  :-)
<`abi> oh....oops
<elegantsarah> aggressive
<BernieRoehl> He was more aggressive than he would be normally?
<elegantsarah> I have many fabtasies....just a difficult thing to talk about
<elegantsarah> I am the absolute queen of freudian typos
<elegantsarah> way more
* BernieRoehl smiles
<BernieRoehl> And did you talk after the scene, to compare your reactions to it?
<elegantsarah> talking after is very important so yes, we did
<lilac{J}> I have a question - well, and a comment ... to me a fantasy and a role play while not mutually exclusive, seem different in my mind - are they?
<Panache`> hi all
<BernieRoehl> Good question, lilac
<lilac{J}> grin .... now does anyone have an answer ... smile
<elegantsarah> Fantasies can be realized through roleplay
<BernieRoehl> I've always thought of roleplaying as a way of turning a fantasy into reality, but that's just my approach to it
<lilac{J}> yes I suppose they can be
<elegantsarah> The rape fantasy I think is very very commone but one wouldn't really want to be raped
<lilac{J}> but to me a role play involves being something other than who I normally am ... but not all my fantasies do
<Maldaran> thats how I usually see it Bernie
<SirDirk> Rape Fantasy Role playing can be a great deal of fun
* elegantsarah agrees with SirDirk
<BernieRoehl> It's a way of experiencing an intense fantasy in a safe way
<elegantsarah> Bernie- exactly
<lilac{J}> thanks .... that makes sense to me 
<Maldaran> thats a good point lilac{J}..not all fantasies are of you beng somethng your not...
<BernieRoehl> But they may involve someone else being something that they're not
<lilac{J}> though some are, many of mine simply are things I have not experienced but would like to ... but I understand that those that are intense may feel safer if I were "being" someone other than myself 
<BernieRoehl> For example, in the rape scenario that sarah mentioned, she would want her "attacker" to be someone who normally wouldn't dream of harming her
<elegantsarah> even playing in public, until one does it, is a fantasy
<BernieRoehl> A fantasy that can, of course, be made into reality  :-)
* elegantsarah says yes, of course
* BernieRoehl smiles
<BernieRoehl> What about some of the "classic" fantasies that everyone thinks of when roleplaying is mentioned?
<BernieRoehl> I'm thinking of schoolmaster and schoolgirl, for example
<elegantsarah> and even getting on a bench with a more or less starnger, one assumes a role that is different from everyday life
<elegantsarah> a fantasy that holds no appeal for me
<BernieRoehl> Or nurse/patient, or barbarian/captured princess, or...
<BernieRoehl> The bodice-rippers come to mind as another example
* elegantsarah smiles at Bernie
* BernieRoehl smiles at sarah
<elegantsarah> In the end, what makes roleplay work is what Bernie referred to as the suspension of belief and the trust that both parties have for each other
<lilac{J}> see this is where I have trouble with the role play thing ... absolutely none of those scenarios does anything at all for me ... so I have trouble imagining role play b/c those are the usual ones you read/hear about 
<BernieRoehl> Yes, sarah -- all the people involved in enacting the fantasy have to "buy in" to it, or it can't work.
<BernieRoehl> The trick may be to find a scenario that does work, lilac
<elegantsarah> lilac- whatever your fantasy, if it gets realized because you can share it with another
<lilac{J}> yes, I am sure you are right 
<elegantsarah> and maybe move outside your "normal" self, even if it is just a little, then you have been successful
<lilac{J}> yes I guess I just need to figure out what role play situations appeal to me other than those "common" ones
<luvs2btied> I'm a little partial to the naughty little schoolgirl role myself :-)
* BernieRoehl smiles
<elegantsarah> those common ones don't generally appeal to me but we all have fantasies which take us outside our normal life, which make us vringe a little, those are the ones to roleplay
<elegantsarah> it is a testing out for all of a character that we think we might/could be
<BernieRoehl> The ones that take us to the edge, so to speak.  The ones which allow us to explore parts of ourselves which we wouldn't otherwise be able to touch.
<lilac{J}> than you sarah ... that makes it much clearer for me
<BernieRoehl> And who knows... over time, we may be able to reach some interesting (and in some cases, very dark) parts of ourselves and make them a more integrated part of the whole.
<lilac{J}> and that would be the point I guess
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's turning 10 pm so let's wrap up the formal part of our discussion there.
<BernieRoehl> Thanks everyone for participating.
<BernieRoehl> Just a reminder that our topic for next week will be "Too Young, Too Old... Age Issues in BDSM", moderated by abi.
<elegantsarah> thanks for moderating Bernie *s*
<BernieRoehl> My pleasure, sarah!
<lilac{J}> thanks Bernie