December 10 2000 EhBC Online Discussion

<BernieRoehl> It's 9 pm, and time for the discussion to begin
<BernieRoehl> I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion topic is "What is 'Kinky'?". The moderator tonight is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<Grizzly_AL> you get a log of last weeks Bernie?
<BernieRoehl> The topic actually came up on the EhBC list this past week, and seemed like a good oen for our Sunday discussion.
<`melody> kinky is istead of useing a sppon you use your tongue... slipping a touch away from the "norm" adding spice to the everyday
<BernieRoehl> No, didn't get one Al. If you have one, can you send it along?
<bottoms_up38> can vanilla people be kinky? ;)
<Grizzly_AL> i was not here i was working
<Kirspin> Why not?
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> yes they can
<Grizzly_AL> kinky is anything that deavities from the norm
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> ok then what is the norm?
<nimeesha{JFC}> of course vanilla people can be kinky...we are vanilla in the other side of our lives...and we are kinky
<Sardaukar_> kinky is more of a mind set rather than a specific Item, both vanillia and "dark" can have their own kinks to them, it is what O/one percieves that make something kinky
<nimeesha{JFC}> no such thing as normal
<`melody> each societies norm is slightly different
<S_W> Defined in the negative: kinky is that which is not vanilla; different, odd, daring, based in fantasy or fetish. From bondage, SM, D/s, through to swinging, games, role-play and other "more mainstream" activities
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> agreed
<S_W> that which is conventional is "un_kinky"
<Grizzly_AL> the norm is what all none kinky ppl are when they look at us -> *shimmer{J}* Hi! How are you feeling?
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> do you think there are any non kinky ppl out there?
<Kirspin> probably
<Sardaukar_> they are called Mormons autumn
<nimeesha{JFC}> i consider myself as normal...i am not abnormal because i have a kink
<`melody> some belive us to be darn rite deviant and depraved{likes depraved }
<bottoms_up38> i wouldnt think so breeze... cause someone will think that person is kinky in one way or another.. all in the perception
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> so we go back to what is kinky
<bottoms_up38> everthing autumn does IS kinky *cute helpful grin*
<BernieRoehl> I think part of the question is "what activities are 'kinky' and which are 'vanilla'?"
<Kirspin> Anything that isnt normal as defined by most in the Vanilla World I would think
<Sardaukar_> even in O/our lifestyle some may consider what others do as "Kinky" , it is all defined on what one thinks, not by a specific act
<bottoms_up38> problem is... there is no concrete defintion. Depends on who you ask
<genigrrrl> :) genigrrrl is NOT kinky
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> lol you have been peeking bottoms
<Grizzly_AL> lol genigrrrl
<nimeesha{JFC}> some vanilla couples dabble in some kinky things but would never admit it and would never consider themselves as kinky
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> then you are in the wrong room genigrrrl lol
<bottoms_up38> even if they dont consider themselves kinky... others might
<`melody> well many of the spankers I know belive me kinking cause of my weakness for rope bondage... so there are lines...pacakageing each groups level of kink
<dalian> so maybe kinky can be defined as anything outside the missionary position?
<Sardaukar_> but Bernie, who is it to decide what activities are "kinky" and which are not?
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> ahh good point dalian
* `abi thinks the missionary position is kinky
<shimmer{J}> missionary can be kinky - depends on the mindset :)
<Kirspin> That hits the nail on the head, dalian!
* Kilted_One thinks that doing something "outside the norm as an experiment" doesnt mean the same as doing it as a "regular' practice
<Grizzly_AL> funny dalian that is what kittn said to me
* autumn`breeze{JFC} falls asleep during missionary style
<S_W> missionary is NOT kinky - the only mindset for that is "Shaker". That does not count in the 21st century.
<shimmer{J}> missionary is not kinky for *you* S_W
<bottoms_up38> how about 'whatever i am not doing that someone else is... is kinky. And whatever i do is normal' *Grin*
<genigrrrl> can anybody guess what i think is "kinky"?? anyone..???...BERNIE??? :P
* BernieRoehl smiles at genigrrrl
<`melody> but for centurys the concept of a woman even enjoying sex was thought of as kinky
<BernieRoehl> I can probably guess :-)
<BernieRoehl> Yes, that's true melody
<nimeesha{JFC}> missionary position becomes kinky if Your bottom is tied to the headboard and gagged *grins*
<BernieRoehl> So the definition of "kinky" is a bit of a moving target
* Sardaukar_ would agree with Bernie
<kitten`in`red`stripes> let's see... genigrrrl, genitorture, geinfuckintorture... yes, genigrrrl, I can guess :)
<shimmer{J}> ezackly, nimeesha :)
<genigrrrl> lol kitten`in`red`stripes
<`melody> so is just accepting ourselves as sexual animals and the pure willingness to experiment the root.. is that desire to seek out pleasure kinky
<S_W> true - though me thinks that if she isn;t tied and gagged it isn't. Which answers the question b4 asking it.
<kitten`in`red`stripes> y'know, I don't agree... throw in roleplay and missionary could be kinky as hell
* genigrrrl 's mama sits down for the discussion too...she's WAY kinky lol
<shimmer{J}> S_W - if Master tells me to lie in the missionary position and does X to me while I'm in it, it's kinky, imho :) YMMV
<S_W> then it is the role-play that is the kink - not the missionary
<Sardaukar_> with the numerous fetishes out there, and there are too many even to start mentioning, the term Kinky has in someways lost it's point
<BernieRoehl> There are lots of things that we would consider quite "vanilla" but that others would consider "kinky". Things like having sex with the lights on, or having mirrors on the bedroom ceiling.
<S_W> then, again it is D/s element which is the kink.
<Kilted_One> thinks that melody maybe seachin out for some "roots"
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> that is not missionary to me either that is role play
<bottoms_up38> true Bernie ;)
<kitten`in`red`stripes> but it doesn't mean the sex isn't affected...
<S_W> lights is perhaps not kinky - mirrors - hmm - I'll admit that is one of those borderline things whic prolly qualifies "enough"
<nimeesha{JFC}> i know a lot of people that would consider sex with the lights on kinky
* `melody smiles from ear to ear :)
<kitten`in`red`stripes> a blow job isn't kinky IMO, but if I'm being forced etc, suddenly it's in a whole new light...
<BernieRoehl> A lot of the D/s aspects are in *how* something is done, rather than *what* is done Session Close: Sun Dec 10 21:17:12 2000 Session Start: Sun Dec 10 21:18:29 2000 #bdsm-kw url is #bdsm-kw created on Sun Dec 10 14:20:19
<BernieRoehl> (sorry, connection got dropped by @home)
<Kirspin> ahh but we are a minority in the Vanilla world still
* genigrrrl thinks that if one is having's going to appear kinky to at least ONE other person out matter how "normal" it is
<kitten`in`red`stripes> if you take into account the 6billion people on earth, really it's not that common
* BernieRoehl nods
<nimeesha{JFC}> but i bet in comparison we have way more sex so that makes us even *grins*
<Sardaukar_> are We a minority or just a percieved Minority for those unwilling to come out and express themselves?
<genigrrrl> but does it matter if it appears to be long as its being enjoyed what's it matter if it's considered "kinky"
<S_W> we are in the minority - but - sexual practices and standards change over time. Making what was once unconventional the norm. For example - few would think oral sex is "kinky". The same quesiton 100 yrs ago would yield a diff answer
<`abi> and is "kinky" only related to sex?
<Kirspin> In some areas its still a No,No
<S_W> it is, indeed, a moving target - though only at a walk of a fast crawl depending upon the age you are in
<BernieRoehl> In some places, oral sex is actually illegal
<shimmer{J}> so is anal sex in some places
<genigrrrl> georgia is one i believe Bernie
<S_W> but in North America it is not "kinky". Example - no one accused Clinton of getting a kinky blow job. The Cigar - otoh - THAT counted.
* BernieRoehl nods
<shimmer{J}> In Washington State it's illegal to have sex with a virgin :)
<Kilted_One> most public places Bernie <smiles>
<Sardaukar_> true abi, in some ways kinky can also be referred to in the way one dresses
<Kilted_One> only the first time shimmer
* shimmer{J} laughs
<genigrrrl> uh-oh....does that make ME kinky Sardaukar_?
<`melody> lolol
<genigrrrl> lol
* BernieRoehl smiles at KO's comment :-)
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> how about kinky pictures
* Sardaukar_ only when your wearing da mopnglo geni
<`abi> it's a self-defining thing ... if someone asks us "are you kinky" ... most of us would proudly say "hell, yes"
<S_W> witchcraft wasd illegal in Canada till 1985 - I submit ancient laws fomr a bygone age are hardly the standard by which to judge the sexual norms of society
<genigrrrl> or some would say i'm "out there..waaay out there"
<nimeesha{JFC}> but kinky is only kinky to those that think it those practising what others consider kinky it is normal
<genigrrrl> lol
<S_W> they are - however - useful guages of what was ONCE considered "kinky" in a represseive society
<genigrrrl> very true nimeesha{JFC}
<`abi> are you kinky nimeesha?
<S_W> hmm - really? I rather thought much of the attraction of kink was that it IS "kink".
<`abi> I don't agree ... I think I'm kinky to other kinky people...they recognize kinky in ways that vanilla folks haven't even dreamed of
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> don't ask her abi
<S_W> kink is not - to us - used in the pejorative.
<nimeesha{JFC}> many would consider me kinky...but i am comfortable with the life i choose and the things i do so i think i am normal by my own standards
<shimmer{J}> I don't care what others think of as kinky. I just care what we think of as kinky.
<genigrrrl> i consider myself "normal"...where others may think i'm a FREAK
<`melody> maybe anything that makes you sexually aware is kinking... anything that speaks of pleasure or intimacy.. bringing sexuality from the shadows to the forefront
<`melody> kiny even
<`abi> but I think we still self-define as *kinky*'s just that for us...*kinky* is normal
<`melody> sends her fingers back to the maker for a new pair
<shimmer{J}> kinky is a definition I use to diferentiate myself from "vanilla", I guess. It's not that important to me.
<Kirspin> In general the Vanilla world call anything tha tis not normal to them as "kinky"
<shimmer{J}> I just do what I do ... I could call it "plastic". kinky is just a word.
* Kilted_One thinks that you are only kinky if "you get caught"!!!
<nimeesha{JFC}> i suppose i would consider something kinky if it were something i don't think i could tell my mother *grins*
<S_W> I don't think kinky is normal - I think that it we accept kink is not evidence of an underlying *abnormality* in the pejorative sense. But kinksters wear it as a badge of pride.
* cybersweet defines kinky as being "anything" that may give her sexual excitment..
<genigrrrl> lol nimeesha{JFC} mamas right here
<nimeesha{JFC}> hell some people think vibrators are kinky....i think they are a necessity *giggles*
<Sardaukar_> we all know what how kinky is used as a derogitory (sp) term in Vanilla society, but how would some of U/us here define Kinky?
<shimmer{J}> lol
* genigrrrl 's mama thinks kinky is anything that a mother DOESNT want to hear her daughter is doing lmao
<nimeesha{JFC}> my mom would pass out if she knew about my not so vanilla life
<S_W> but look - Dan SAvage of Savage Love repeats the mantra time and time again in an effective way: "No - that is NOT normal".
<genigrrrl> my mother has no choice...she helped me with my store
<S_W> "Its kinky". But that does not make you a bad person. It just makes you kinky.
<BernieRoehl> So when people in the vanilla world use the word "kinky", do they usually mean it in a good way or a bad way?
<`abi> I think it's often a neutral term Bernie ... not a judgement, just an observation
<Stevius> S_W, I would not take being kinky as a badge of pride
<genigrrrl> and supports me...wants to see me happy...her only concern has been " i don't want to see you get tortured FOR REAL"...meaning playing unsafely and getting "damaged"
<shimmer{J}> kinky isn't bad or good, it just "is" imho
<`melody> in a good way always its a playful word... spoken with a smile
<S_W> kinky is not used in the pejorative <much> anymore
<nimeesha{JFC}> i think when we are called kinky by some it means they are jealous
<genigrrrl> i disagree nimeesha{JFC}
* Kilted_One would say that it is used in the nilla word to descrie something that is "different" for them....a label for all that is odd
<Kirspin> People in the Vanilla world like to call anything they consider nor normal,kinky
<genigrrrl> some are not into some forms of "kink" doesnt' mean they are jealous
<Sardaukar_> agrees with is just a label
<genigrrrl> Bernie is DEFINATELY not jealous of me because i get off on needles...if anything he is absolutely SQUICKED!!!!
* BernieRoehl laughs
<genigrrrl> :P BernieRoehl
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> i think women can be jealous if another woman is kinky
<Sardaukar_> LOL
<S_W> well - vibrators and kam sutra oil may be "kinky" to many... though to US that is still damn vanilla
* BernieRoehl smiles and winks at genigrrrl
<`melody> lolol
<S_W> Q: IS it fair to say that our definition of a kinky act does not meet a vanilla's definition of kinky act?
<genigrrrl> not jealous autumn`breeze{JFC}....insecure that she is unable to offer the same things cauz shes too uptight, autumn`breeze{JFC}
<S_W> There are parts where we agree "that's kinky" and parts where we do NOT agree that an act is kinky?
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> that woman can give off an aura of sensuality
<BernieRoehl> I think everyone has their own "inks", but that people in the D/s community tend (in general) to have a broader definition of what is "normal" for themselves and their peers
<BernieRoehl> "kinks" rather
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> insecure agreed also
<S_W> agreed BernieRoehl.
<Sardaukar_> I would say it is more of Our definition of the "norm" differs from the vanilla society
<shimmer{J}> I agree with that, Sardaukar_
<watchmeBLEED> :)
<Sardaukar_> if we find it kn\inky pretty sure vanilla would go OMG theat is kinky
<S_W> Maybe "kinky" for a vanilla is simply a definitiion of his or her edge-play, but for us it means something different.
* BernieRoehl nods
<S_W> agreed again Sardaukar_
<shimmer{J}> it's a subjective term.
<Sardaukar_> and lets face it is only kinky the first time LOL
<dalian> lol
<shimmer{J}> nah :)
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> and again and again
<S_W> "shame is like the pain - only hurts the first time"
<`melody> than you become downrite deviant and love it :)
<Sardaukar_> but I am a deviant LOL
<Sardaukar_> freely admits to it and will sign the papers
<BernieRoehl> It's interesting... when I talk to vanilla folk that I know, I find that the ones who use the word "kinky" are usually more friendly and receptive than those who use words like "perverted" or "deviant"
<Sardaukar_> very true Bernie
<BernieRoehl> "kinky" always seems to be said with a smile, in a friendly (perhaps teasing) way
<S_W> perverted is pejorative - kinky is not
<dalian> including the blushed cheeks!
<BernieRoehl> Exactly, S_W
<Stevius> sounds right Bernie, kinky has a playful connotation
<Kirspin> Yes its a fun term for most in the Vanilla world I expect
<`melody> kiny is playful.. a word of dreams.. those who say it have dreams unrealized or that may think well maybe that would be fun.. but what would people think
<BernieRoehl> Yes, it's definitely a playful word
<watchmeBLEED> my ma thinks "doing it with more than one person...or someone from the same sex" is kinky for her lmao
* watchmeBLEED laughs at her waaaay vanilla mama
<nimeesha{JFC}> hmm remembers the kinky dreams i used to have that i did not tell anyone about because society thought they were wrong...then i met a whole new society that considers it a way of life
<watchmeBLEED> i don't even want to know if my ma's done either of those lmao
<nimeesha{JFC}> vanilla people have kinky thoughts...most just do not act on them
<`abi> but we do watchmeBLEED!
<`abi> wanna know I mean
* Sardaukar_ agree's wiff abi
<watchmeBLEED> lol abi...hang on i'll pass over the keyboard...but i'm leavin the room
* Sardaukar_ enquiring minds want to know
<watchmeBLEED> here You go mama
<Sardaukar_> LOL...will tell ya later then
<`abi> hello kellysmama ... :)
<`abi> so tell us ... does kinky run in the family?
<Sardaukar_> Welcome kellysmama
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> hi mom!
<kellysmama> hi :)
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to the channel, kelly's mom!
<kellysmama> Ive not even had two in the same month
<BernieRoehl> So... I'm sure a lot of us are curious... what do you consider "kinky"?
<kellysmama> thank you Bernie
<`abi> lolol
<Sardaukar_> LOL
<DarkAngel^> whatever she sais ,,, I didnt do it kellysmama
<kellysmama> sorry to disappoint you
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> well hang around with us mom
<`melody> ponders this
<`shado> then does 2 in the same hour mean i'm kinky :)
<kellysmama> you do sound like a fun group
* BernieRoehl smiles at kellysmama
<Sardaukar_> no shado...lucky yes...but not kinky
<kellysmama> oh my i think so shado
<`abi> aha...a new definition of kinky ... kinky = fun
<shimmer{J}> welll, time for more drugs. gnight, people.
<BernieRoehl> Right now we're discussing what "kinky" means to different people -- including those who consider themselves kinky, and those who don't
<`abi> nite shimmer .... feel better soon
<`shado> by the way what are the *2* *G*
<BernieRoehl> Get well soon, shimmer!
<kellysmama> kinky drugtakers?
<Kirspin> No drugs here
<BernieRoehl> shimmer is recovering from a kidney infection, and she's on drugs to help her get over it
<`abi> naw kellysmama ... shimmer's been sick ... these are the legal kind
* DarkAngel^ gets high on life
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> just good clean kinky consentual sex
<nimeesha{JFC}> no drugs here...i like to remember what fun i have had *grins*
<`abi> actually, in general, I'd say we use less mind-altering substances than the general public...does that make us kinky?
<Kirspin> she should have said anti-botics
<kellysmama> kinky is what you all make it. sex and intimacy for me i'm sure kelly would scoff at the idea of it being kinky
<BernieRoehl> I think she's on painkillers as well
* BernieRoehl nods
<Kirspin> Like Tyenol #3
<kellysmama> i don't even what to know what my daughters been up too....I have my ideas,...and they are DEFINATELY kinky
* BernieRoehl smiles at kellysmama
* Sardaukar_ nods that is very true kellysmama, it is what you make of it that counts
* `abi chuckles...I don't think kelly would deny being kinky...even to her mom :)
<kellysmama> but as long as she is not getting hurt...and has a smile on her face
<DarkAngel^> daughterS ?,, more than our lovely kelly ..... way kewl
* `shado douses DA with COLD water
<kellysmama> two Darkangel
<DarkAngel^> maybe kinky is in the jeans ,,,,, or in the mini skirt
<Sardaukar_> hmmmm wonder if it is a genetic pattern there LOL
<BernieRoehl> She's definitely enjoying what she's doing, kellysmama :-)
* DarkAngel^ sips the cold water and winks at `shado ,, why thank you dear
<kellysmama> glad to hear Bernie, somehow i think you know more then I care to
<BernieRoehl> Perhaps :-)
<`shado> i believe Sardaukar that you would find families with less inhibitions are more likely to accept different things from the family members
<Kirspin> Mothers know best!
<Sardaukar_> well you can take pride in kelly mom, she is a great person
<BernieRoehl> So, we have ten minutes left in tonight's discussion. Anyone have any other thoughts on what it means to be "kinky"?
<kellysmama> never a dull moment at the dinnertable when she comes to visit...that I know
* BernieRoehl agrees with Sardaukar_
<DarkAngel^> relaxed in ones natural curiosity
<Sardaukar_> very true shado
<kellysmama> I will get Kelly now. So you can finish
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> kinky is to be one of us!!!!
<dalian> bye kellysmama
<`abi> bye kellysmama ..nice to meetcha
<DarkAngel^> bye moma
<Kirspin> Bye Mom
<Sardaukar_> nice to have met you kellysmama and thankyou fpr taking part in the discussion
<`abi> it occurs to me that kellysmama is probably the same age as me
<`melody> knky is to sit on a puter and talk about what is kinky
<BernieRoehl> See you, kellysmama!
<DarkAngel^> oh `melody ,,, you weirdo ,,,LOL
* BernieRoehl chuckles at melody's comment
<Stevius> good point `melody
<johncin> true melody
<`melody> blushs... omg Ive been found out!
<`abi> to be kinky is to do what most people only dream about
<atime> kinky is like what is up it all depends on your point of perspective
* DarkAngel^ looks down `melody's top while she is kinky typing
* BernieRoehl smiles
* DarkAngel^ winks at mamaSslut
<mamaSslut> :) i'm back and i'm NOT going to scroll
<mamaSslut> i don't waht to know
<Stevius> do kinky fantasies qualify one as being kinky?
* `melody presses her breasts together traps DarkAngel^'s face
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> yes
<mamaSslut> no just twisted Stevius :P
<Sardaukar_> Kinky IMO is that which is different to what I have done, without negative conotation to it, it is something that which is different and untested before.
<nimeesha{JFC}> some would think so
<Stevius> if so, that would include the entire world, imo
<DarkAngel^> maybe fufilling them makles you kinky ,,, since everyone has those fantacies
<DarkAngel^> my eye ,, my eye!!!
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> how about rotating red tongues
<Sardaukar_> which does not leave much out
<Kilted_One> maybe simply vocalising them so that others know, DA??
<Sardaukar_> rotating red tongues...I got one of those LOL
* `shado does not want to know DA's fantasies
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> can i borrow it please ????
* BernieRoehl smiles
<Sardaukar_> nuh uh
<Sardaukar_> part of My resume' LOL
<`shado> does it use batteries Sardaukar :)
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> nimeesha{JFC} cross it off the list!!!!
<Sardaukar_> nope
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's nearly 10 pm. Let's wrap up the formal part of the discussion. I'll close the logfile, but please feel free to keep chatting about kink. :-)
<`shado> dang
<mamaSslut> we sell those at HardWear Sardaukar_ :P
<Sardaukar_> can 360 My own tongue , does that make Me kinky
<nimeesha{JFC}> LOL ... i take it you liked the pic i sent you sis?
<`shado> no just popular Sardaukar :)
<Sardaukar_> LOL
<mamaSslut> Needles Needles Needles anybody think Needles r normal? if so, pls pm me lol
<BernieRoehl> Thanks everyone for participating!
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> yes!!!!!!
<DarkAngel^> well KO ,,, I do seem to find a larger percentage of our comunity has a higher than average IQ ,,,,, this with more curiosity and imagination ,,,,, you should not be surprised at what we think of and do
<Sardaukar_> Thankyou Bernie
<mamaSslut> so far one pm...anybody else? lol
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> thanks Bernie
<Kilted_One> thinks that Sardaukar_ rotating his tongue 360 makes him "in demand" more that kinky!!!!
<DarkAngel^> I think you are kinky mamaSslut
<nimeesha{JFC}> *hugs* Bernie