December 5, 2004 EhBC Online Discussion

<ModBot> This message is generated by Moderator Bot, ModBot for short. I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "D/s Fantasies vs D/s Realities". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<dana^^> hello Justice
<becky> hi elle
<dana^^> hi elle
* _elle winks at Sir CP
<becky> hi here too dana
<dana^^> hiya becky
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ps}> hey elle
<dana^^> smiles...
<icemaiden> has the discussion started?
<krista-F> guess everybody's fantasies are really private
<dana^^> lol
<the_wild_rose> looks that way ;)
<krista-F> Trainer Sir...:)
<Mackenzie> Good evening to all (and krista)
<krista-F> i was just about to start speaking of my recurring bdsm fantasy involving Brad Pitt
<dana^^> lol
<krista-F> so far it has not made the transtion from fantasy to reality
<icemaiden> brad pitt eh?? can we all join in for that one
<dana^^> are we talking about online to offline again?
<the_wild_rose> I am not sure about fantasies other than a tool for when i am alone...d/s with someone is different and real
<dana^^> lol icemaiden
<krista-F> or mind to reality i would imagine as well
<the_wild_rose> yea
<icemaiden> i think online to offine plays a part within what people fantasize about and what reality actual gives
<krista-F> it can be real but not yet realized
<the_wild_rose> no way could my fantasies ever be real
<the_wild_rose> lol
<krista-F> why not rose??
<the_wild_rose> omg
<krista-F> im easy.i told you that already
<the_wild_rose> they are too out there
<motoki> some of my fantasies are ripe for the pickin' for reality - some are never going to see the light of day of reality, but are still delicious fantasies
<the_wild_rose> heh
<dana^^> so far... experiencings some of my dark fantasies has been incredible... yet there are some deep ones i dont believe i would want to show the light of day as it were...
<krista-F> i enjoy dark fantasies.....they are very exciting to me
<the_wild_rose> i let him know what they r and then i plant myself in reality tho
<dana^^> grins with motoki... some fantasies should stay that way...
<the_wild_rose> heh yes i agree
<dana^^> but ... never say never...
<the_wild_rose> i dunno my philosophy is to let him lead what we do
<krista-F> i like to engage with someone who also has that dark side.and that has the capability to go there
<motoki> i've been having D/s-related fantasies since my early teens - just didn't have a vocabulary for it til the mid-90's
<krista-F> even though it is not likely....
<the_wild_rose> i am way too chicken to realize those ...maybe i am still too new
<krista-F> oh well now...and i going to have talk about my barbie and ken yet again ??
<dana^^> lol
<the_wild_rose> heheh
<the_wild_rose> i am just getting in touch with my darker side so
<motoki> see, some D/s fantasies are relatively tame - like having wrist & ankle cuffs on and being in bondage - that has become reality and it's full steam ahead
<the_wild_rose> that place we all go to
<dana^^> isnt it fun...
<motoki> it's all a spectrum
<the_wild_rose> ya same motoki
<krista-F> has anyone ever been frightened by the things they fantasize about?
<the_wild_rose> yes
<the_wild_rose> me me me
<the_wild_rose> heheh
* _elle holds up her hand OMG it took me awhile to even admit some of them to myself
<motoki> i have been frightened by my fantasies, but a few have frightened me if i thought i'd want them to become reality
<motoki> ^haven't been
<Mackenzie> A number of people have used the word "dark" to refer to their fantasy. What does dark mean to you?
<dana^^> yes krista... all of the bdsm ones... lol... i never imagined they were uh... normal until i started talking and experiencing them
<motoki> i *did* feel like a twisted depraved person til i knew what it was called (i.e., D/s) - now i'm quite comfortable knowing i'm a twisted depraved submissive
* motoki ACTION
<the_wild_rose> dark = something so humiliating and degrading and out there that most would go omg
<dana^^> i think it means ... not your average saturday night with the lights out kinda fun... lol
<the_wild_rose> lol yea
<krista-F> some of us enjoy the dark though
<the_wild_rose> i am not quite there yet tho
<Mackenzie> That does not sound very precise. What would be dark for one, might be a cakewalk for another. So, I suppose dark must be very personal, yes?
<the_wild_rose> i am turned on by it but..
<the_wild_rose> yes
<dana^^> lol motoki... i didnt understand my reaction to pain or even explain it
<Mackenzie> So, a dark D/s fantasy is therefore something very personal... that one might not wish to share with another?
<motoki> one definition of "dark" could be "something done that is apparently aginst one's wishes, but in fact is exactly what they like as long as it "feels" nonconsensual"
<the_wild_rose> yes
<motoki> another definitino of "dark" might be "evil" - again, open to wide interpretation
<the_wild_rose> or ritualistic and primitive
<the_wild_rose> and umm weird
<motoki> or carnal
* motoki woofs
<the_wild_rose> oh god yes
<krista-F> rituals..ahhhhhhhhhhh ....i do love those
<the_wild_rose> heheh
<the_wild_rose> same
<the_wild_rose> just
<the_wild_rose> omg i cant yet
<the_wild_rose> lol
<Mackenzie> Hmmm... but many D/s real life realtionships have many aspects to them that others might see as being "dark". How can one then draw the line between fantasy and reality?
<the_wild_rose> i draw it when my slave name is called
<the_wild_rose> then i know...
<the_wild_rose> anything goes
<`abi> it's fantasy if you imagine it, it's reality if you do it
<motoki> i call it "hard limits"
<the_wild_rose> at that pt fantasy may become reality
<Mackenzie> So, is fantasy only the things that one may not have gotten around to doing yet?
<motoki> i believe that fantasy also incorporates things that *have* been done
<motoki> to myself even
<motoki> lol
<the_wild_rose> heh
<krista-F> no.....a lot of things my not be not have been experienced due to any number of other reasons...
<krista-F> lack of a willing partner
<krista-F> distance
<Achilles{tr}> One could fantasize about a scene that had been played out on someone else... or even on one's self but at another time. A sort of instant replay in the mind.
<motoki> or done over and over
<motoki> and over
<motoki> and
<Achilles{tr}> Fantasizing about a past.. or future.. reality.
<motoki> over
<motoki> lol
<abitbent> some of my fantasies ceased to be after i tried them in reality.
<the_wild_rose> welp saturday i was tied with a female sub...fantasy of mine for awhile..while tied i fantasized too
<the_wild_rose> not sure what that means
<Lukky1> evening all...
<Mackenzie> It begins to sound that the line between the two, if it exists at all, is somewhat vague and tenuous
<Achilles{tr}> Most 'lines' are.
<Lukky1> I guess it may not really matter what it means to us rose... it is what it means to you that counts...
<the_wild_rose> all i know is at that moment i was in reality but also deep inf antasy too
<the_wild_rose> of what i wanted to do to her and her to me
<the_wild_rose> yet we were only tied together
<Mackenzie> I believe that we incorporate many elements of our fantasies into our D/s lifestyles. Some more than others. This is quite natural as I see it
<the_wild_rose> oh good and whew
<the_wild_rose> hrmm not sure how all of you are but when i get taken to that him
<the_wild_rose> i tend to become parts of my fantasies
<the_wild_rose> because i am not a whore in daily life
<the_wild_rose> just for him at that time
<dana^^> are fantasies always sexual by nature?
<motoki> no, not mine
<the_wild_rose> mine are lol
<krista-F> no..not at all
<_elle> mine arent by far
<the_wild_rose> <---bad girl
<Mackenzie> Not mine as well
<jen{SE}> i have fantasies that i believe should only be fantasy. Some can and have been brought to reality, but some belong just in fantasy
<krista-F> in fact my darkest ones are totally non sexual
<motoki> i have fantasies about my career (nonsexual), about my lifestyle (nonsexual), about my relationships (nonsexual)
<motoki> about winning lotteries ...
<dana^^> smiles...
<Mackenzie> Yes, but we are speaking about D/s fantasies
<the_wild_rose> man am i the only one who only fantasizes about sex? =?
<krista-F> LOL..rose i love you!!
<the_wild_rose> i feel like such a lil slut now
<the_wild_rose> lol
<krista-F> well........
<the_wild_rose> no dont say it
<motoki> sexual, too, rose, just answering the qusetion about nonsexual
<_elle> granted my D/s fantasies are often sexual... that sure isnt the extent of them
<krista-F> jk darlin girl
<dana^^> and thats a bad thing rose... grins
<the_wild_rose> heheh
<krista-F> being a slut is highly prized in some D/s arenas
<the_wild_rose> well it is a phase i am sure
<Mackenzie> And other places as well krista
<the_wild_rose> everything is new
<krista-F> yes Sir..i have heard that now and again
<the_wild_rose> oh wait i do fantasize about being followed as i clean too
<the_wild_rose> but i am naked there too so
<the_wild_rose> man..
<the_wild_rose> =/
<krista-F> you are a keeper rose
<the_wild_rose> no
<the_wild_rose> just am developing or blooming since i am a rose afterall
<krista-F> i sometimes wish i could go back to where you are rose
<motoki> where's that, krista?
<the_wild_rose> well i think everyone can with a good imagination altho atm i find it embarrassing
<Johncin> why is that krista-F?
<krista-F> i would like to have it all before me.....
<krista-F> the discovery
<krista-F> the journey...the excitment
<the_wild_rose> that is where fantasy would help?
<krista-F> helloooooooooooo Brad!!
<motoki> what has changed that it's no longer before you, krista?
<the_wild_rose> roflmao
<the_wild_rose> omg
<krista-F> years of experience motoki....studying..learning
<motoki> so you don't feel that there is anything further for you in that regard, krista? or have you hit a plateau but expect more will come
<motoki> ?
<Mackenzie> What krista means, imo, one may learn which fantasies can be made true, and which can not. That truth is sometimes a difficult pill to swallow
<krista-F> indeed Sir
<krista-F> and yet i do hope to always keep learning motoki
<motoki> ahhh gotcha
<krista-F> and to grow.and be better at my craft.....and i do consider it that to a certain degree
<motoki> i like to look at the gist of the fantasies i have that will not ever be reality - often the underlying theme CAN be reproduced in reality, just not exactly as per fantasy
<krista-F> like i can be tied up and used by a blonde man....just not Brad Pitt??
* Johncin thinks krista has a case of melancholy
<motoki> sure - i think the pilsbury dough boy is meant to be blonde
<abitbent> tee hee hee
<krista-F> you always read me well Johncin Sir
<motoki> a good example ... many women (and men?) fantasize about being raped ... but very very few would ever want that to actually happen to them for all sorts of sane reasons (and a few insane reasons)...
* `abi notes that Brad Pitt makes a poor Achilles
* Johncin smiles at krista-F
<dana^^> my fantasies tend to have the same theme... being able to give up complete control
<motoki> however, D/s does have room for "consensual power excahnge" that can be crafted to feel liek the real deal (so i've heard)
<krista-F> oh i don't want just the rape ..i want a gang bang....
<motoki> so that takes the theme and gives it a realistic possibility
<krista-F> but you my fantasy.....all the participants are devastatingly handsome and smell great
<abitbent> hard to get good rapists these days
<krista-F> so right there we have the difference between the reality of it and the fantasy aspect
<Achilles{tr}> Getting them to admit to experience is the tough part. Not like you can call their victims for references.
<_elle> lol just date a military special forces.. they're great at fulfilling that fantasy
<krista-F> lol
* abitbent taps the mic.. is this thing on?
* _elle grins
<Mackenzie> But many D/s fantasies transcend the sexual (real slavery as an example). And these are the more difficult to reconcile.
<`abi> well, you can always sign up to be a nanny in Toronto ...
<Achilles{tr}> Ick.
<`abi> no, really ... weekend Globe ... 'they made me sit on the floor when they talked to me'
* Achilles{tr} idly swings the disconnected cable from abitbent's microphone in lazy arcs.
* Achilles{tr} looks at abi
<Achilles{tr}> I 'make' you sit on the floor when I talk to you?
<abitbent> :P thanx for the recognition Achilles{tr} sir.. almost was gonna cap my nick to see if anyone was listening.
<`abi> I wouldn't unplug abitbent's mic .... honest
<shadoe> i read that as well abi
<krista-F> is slavery a bad thing to admit to Sir?
<`abi> apparently the government doesn't look too kindly upon it
<Mackenzie> No, real slavery is impossible. It is against the law (well at least in this country). Nothing wrong with the fantasy though
* `abi likes being on the floor it doesn't count ;)
<krista-F> then how does that allow you to have a slave Sir?
<Achilles{tr}> Cap your nice abitbent and I think abi will definitely perk up.
<krista-F> is that just pretend?...
<dana^^> thinks im missing something... weekend Globe?
<`abi> now *that* is a fantasy ;)(
<Mackenzie> That is my attempt to reconcile the fantasy to the reality
<krista-F> ahhhhh.
<Achilles{tr}> It's a newspaper dana^^.. a big sheet of paper with black marks all over it.
<Lukky1> I think in private, the relationship can be very much one of owner/slave...
<dana^^> lol... thank You Sir... lol
<Achilles{tr}> Np.
<krista-F> i have no such experience to draw upon was curious
<abitbent> you two are too much... going back to lurk mode here.
<Achilles{tr}> Chicken.. buck, buck, buck... buckawwwww.
<shadoe> i've lost track of the topic here
<Achilles{tr}> The fantasy is slavery.. the reality is abi likes to kneel on the floor when I talk to her. Hmmmmm. Where is reality and what is the fantasy here?
<krista-F> fantasy/reality shadoe
<shadoe> so far there seem to be chickens mucking about.. avoiding kernal sanders
<shadoe> lol
<`abi> one man's fantasy is another's reality
<Mackenzie> Quite true
<tedi> so true `abi
<_dove> and one man's reality is another's fantasy
* `abi can't do kernal sanders since Oryx & Crake
<shadoe> so how does buckawwwww.. fit in? *laughing* i really liked that
<Achilles{tr}> My reality is often expressed as fantasy by people at the office and folks I know in vanilla socailly.
<tedi> one can find herself submitting on a much deeper level than she ever intended
<shadoe> so are we debating that fantasy cannot become reality?
<Lukky1> that is very true achilles... and if they only knew the truth, they would likely be floored - that being said, it seems like a fairly common fantasy amongst the vanilla lifers
* _elle nods, very true Achilles{tr}, and even then.. they only want to live it for a period of time... i think that we give a whole new "level" to the word fantasy...
<Mackenzie> I would suggest we give a new level to the word reality
<krista-F> would any one go to elaborate efforts to make a fantasy a reality..or have you?
<`abi> but we still have fantasies ... just different ones
<Achilles{tr}> If I ever start to fantasize about the missionary position I may kill Myself.
* _elle giggles
<`abi> not to worry ... there will be several missionaries in attendance I'm sure
<dana^^> lol
<_dove> lol
<Lukky1> and as our fantasies become realities, new, deeper, and different fantasies replace them
* Achilles{tr} writes that one in the ledger for later
<shadoe> hey.. the missionary has it's place!
<Achilles{tr}> In the pot being cooked by the cannibals?
<krista-F> in a threesome?
<shadoe> i have a distinct memory of many missionary type things.. that scared the bejeezuz outa me
<Mackenzie> Do they? Or do we have the same fantasy over and over... the really intense ones... don't they just keep coming back?
<Achilles{tr}> My fantasies tend to be impractical only if there is too much choreography involved.
<abitbent> lol
<Achilles{tr}> Shut up abitbent... you're lurking.
<tedi> may i pose a question to the room please?
<krista-F> my favourites are like a loop...i play them over and over again
* abitbent zips it
<abitbent> :)
<`abi> sure tedi ... but be forewarned that we may answer it
* Achilles{tr} outs His feet in the starting chocks and waits for tedi's question.
<tedi> do you feel that online contributes to D/s fantasy?
<motoki> i've had the same enduring fantasy since age 14-ish
<`abi> contributes in what way tedi?
<tedi> i find online D/s quite different from reality...not always but frequently there is a massive difference
<`abi> I think that for some tedi ... online is an *intentional* fantasy ...and I don't see anything wrong with that
<tedi> good point sis
<motoki> good way to put it, abi
<Achilles{tr}> Certainly it is different but it can bring about a certain sizzle into reality especially if there is a link. For example if someone were to tell His girl that He has been in contact about a coming party with Someone who scares the crap out of her and who is likely going to be doing a special something at the party.... well.. it might contribute.
<Mackenzie> I agree abi... and it is a safe place to explore many fantasies as well
* Achilles{tr} smiles pleasantly
<_dove> The fantasies online can also be somewhat "interactive"
* motoki grins imagining a few special somethings
<Achilles{tr}> But then... is what I said online or just reality being communicated online. Where is THAT line?
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<`abi> I believe that line is called a mindfuck
<_dove> lol
<Mackenzie> Of course, one might say that sharing a fantasy online becomes a sort of cyber-reality... but that is probably splitting hairs
<Achilles{tr}> I've heard of those.
<tedi> i think the online fantasies may lead to a disappointed sub when she explores reality
* `abi chuckles... or not tedi
<_dove> i dunno, tedi - it opened a lot of doors that i wouldn't have thought of opening
<tedi> perhaps i should do more
<Achilles{tr}> It may be easier for some to create a mindset online as opposed to setting the sub up for that same mindset in person. I can be a 5'10" tall, 220Lb. muscled man with beard and evil eyes online... but what am I in reality? Can I be that same creature when we meet?
<`abi> yes
<Achilles{tr}> Oh, right.
<`abi> :)
<Achilles{tr}> But not everybody can be is My point.
<krista-F> not everyone needs to be Sir
<`abi> true...I've disappointed so many when they discovered I had no beard
<tedi> ahh but if He is talented with the tools of the trade the homliest of men have the subbies lined up round the corner
<Mackenzie> Such as those who might be classifed as ... hmmm... what's the term? pipsqueak I believe
<krista-F> sometimes the merest pipsqueak can be more powerful than one could ever imagine
<Achilles{tr}> True enough... but online you can be whatever you need to be to make the scene. As confident as you wish, as powerful, creative and clever at knots as is necessary. In person it becomes something that now has to play to a more immdeiate audience.
<Achilles{tr}> There can be the disappointment.
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informally. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<Mackenzie> So... online fanasty is therefore an esacpe from the mundane?