November 24, 2002 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Subspace -- the Final Frontier?". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<Kilted_One> damn bot is right on time again
<Kilted_One> so are there any trekies out there??
<ravenswolf> yeppers
<slave_earl> sure
<Kilted_One> do you think it is the final frontier??
* jewel`{F} is a trekkie
<ravenswolf> the final frontier is the mind Kilted_One - at least in my opinion
<jewel`{F}> not sure if it is the final frontier but it is a dayum fine place to go to lots
<Kilted_One> is that not where sub space take you??
<slave_earl> thought that sub-space was in the mind
<ravenswolf> from what i understand kind of - never been there myself so i can't speak from a position of authority
* Kilted_One nods to slave_earl and says, that is what I was asking
<Kilted_One> so you have been there jewel`{F}, can you explain what it feels like to others that havent experinced it
<jewel`{F}> for me, it is like floating in a warm lagoon, just enjoying the surroundings and sensations
<Kilted_One> anyone else??
<slave_earl> agree with jewel, 100%
<Kilted_One> what takes you there??
<Sweet1`> depends on what stage/depth of head space
<jewel`{F}> Master
<kneels> is thinking of how to explain hers
<ravenswolf> so in a way an endorphin induced altered state of awareness?
<dalian> I would agree with's like floating..or even astral travel...there is nothing just simply ar "there"
<Sweet1`> the beginning stages are more like being in a cocoon, warm, comfy and safe, yet having a very heightened sense of awareness
<slave_earl> afterward, just rolls on the floor naked at Mistress's feet, laughing uncontrollably
* jewel`{F} thinks it seems like many are in subspace this evening
<slave_earl> this one wishes
<krista-F> no....that was last nite
<Kilted_One> is there anything in particular that takes you there (and "Master" is not the answer I'm looking for <smiles>)
<Sweet1`> it can start with a look, an action or a tone
<krista-F> a leather glove put over the nose and get the aroma
<jewel`{F}> well there is no laughter, but afterward i curl up with Master and enjoy His warmth
* jewel`{F} grins
<dalian> true...for me it's usually a particlar demeanour of the Dom
<jewel`{F}> Master will start on my headspace days before a scene or play session
<kneels> i tend to start out in reality..and everything bloody hurts..then i need to be pushed into another mindset...i tend to scream until i get there...then i laugh because i get to an odd empowering place where i am like "bring it on you sadistic SOB..lets go there
<slave_earl> this one must relax, accept what is happening, accept a total lack of control over everything
<jewel`{F}> little things like tiny hints at what is to come, and giving me instructions on how to prepare
<Sweet1`> sometimes it's easier to get there when the mind and body have a chance to come together with some lighter sensation play first
<drauma{M}> Ineed to sense my Lady's pleasure, and I need to be physically comfy, only then can I let my body relax and ggive her the feedback she needs, a synergy developps when it works well
<Kilted_One> is there a sort of timeframe that this happens or is time something that you cant relate to at the time <puns intended>
<kneels> that's a good point drauma{M}..i cant go anywhere if i am playing with someone i dont know well (which i dont unless the Dom i play with is there anyway) but the energy just isnt the same..then..i cant go anywhere if i am not comfortable either
<Sweet1`> in the beginning, i can still talk, i can still walk, i can still speak
<Sweet1`> when it works well, and progresses, i can no longer do any of those things
<drauma{M}> my ability to rationalize gets compartmentalized sometimes, sometimes it gets punted altogether
<drauma{M}> I lost track of time in my very first scene, which was sensation play
<jewel`{F}> both for me Kilted_One, the length of time it takes depends on the play, but then agian i have no concept of the time, what may take only minutes seems like hours and vice versa
<kneels> no it isnt the time Kilted_One.// for me i need to push past the screaming bloody murder because it hurts stage...building up slowly doesnt work for me..i need a rush of endorphins
<drauma{M}> I think I kinda put myself into a trance of giving, I wanted so much to have that scene (it was my birthday..) and was taken pity on by a nice ladt at the Paddles NYC club, she courted me, then physically dominated me, and I was flying right after her invite
<Kilted_One> for the fems out there, have you noticed any difference in how sub space takes affect/the effect with hormone balance (polite way of asking "time of month")
<Sweet1`> no
<jewel`{F}> haven't a clue
<kneels> oh hell yes Kilted_One
<dalian> can't really answer that one
<Kilted_One> is there anything that affects it for the male submissives out there??
<kneels> i am very angry during a scene...i better be tied down...then i usually cry during or afterwords
<drauma{M}> lack of audible cues
<drauma{M}> too loud music...
<drauma{M}> audience intrusion
<kneels> oh music is huge for me
<drauma{M}> as a serious musician I find some music is just wrong
<Kilted_One> if it is not loud music what sort then kneels
<kneels> i get very frustrated if i hate the music..but if i love it..i feel like dancing and singing and i am just having fun
* drauma{M} nods
<kneels> i dont care if it is loud or not ...unless i hate it ..then if it is quiet i can block it out..if it is quiet and i love it..i want it cranked
<drauma{M}> best would be instrumental music, or, something vocal that doesnt trigger ratinoal thought
<Sweet1`> if there has to be music, something with a good beat
<kneels> but know me..i go though a...screaming-i-hate-you-stage...then a man-this-is-fun-stage...before i ever get close to sinking
<drauma{M}> I dont need light at all, but My Lady needs it to see how I am responding
* Kilted_One nods his head...yup I think we have seen that progression a few times kneels <smiles>
<kneels> has been known to frustrate a certain Dom by starting to sing and dance in the middle of his best beating efforts
* jewel`{F} hasn't seen it all but i have heard it
<MzTyger> It is quite frustrating to have the lights so low you cannot gauge things
<drauma{M}> when She cant guage things, sometimes I end up feeling cheated, or, hurting...
* rose`petal{B`L} goes to sit by MzTyger's feet
* MzTyger nods
<Kilted_One> is there any particular play that sends you there over another??? certain combos??
<drauma{M}> didnt you get the channel greeting?
<MzTyger> Speaking from the Domme point of view I love spanking, so for me the ultimate is when I can mix and match spanking and flogging
<kneels> well actually...this is something that has always confused me..i do go through a stage of euphoria..getting high off of endorphins...yet i rarely see others do it...and i would like to ask why that is? Does no one else find that they just well up with laughter when nothing is funny about being tortured?
<jewel`{F}> for me it is fastedst and best when Master starts with sensation play
<kneels> just that i have to be pushed over those two first stages Kilted_One
<kneels> now see..sensation play doesnt send me is "nice" maybe..but it wouldnt help me sink...for that i need some serious pain
<kneels> alright..i will admit it..i am an endorphin slut maybe
<Sir_StephenS> kneels, your stages make sense to me; you are doing something like resistance play?
<Sir_StephenS> within yourself
<kneels> which would be what Sir_StephenS?
<Sweet1`> the endorphins hit people differently kneels
<Sir_StephenS> like a breaking down of barriers
<Sweet1`> the sensation play can help the mind and body come together to take the more serious pain later
<kneels> but what exactly is resistance play?
<drauma{M}> or, it can be an end in itself
<Sweet1`> a slower build up can take some farther and heavier than the heavy right off type of play
<kneels> if frustrates me only Sweet1`..which some may find amusing..yet it wont help me take pain
<Sweet1`> it does me at times too, but sometimes it lets me go deeper
<Sweet1`> depends on the dom and the scene
<Kilted_One> if the play takes longer to get you into sub space v's shorter, does it make a difference to the type of sub space that is achieved??
<Sweet1`> yes, i have different places that i go
<Sir_StephenS> I don't know if there is an exact definition, kneel; I was only using it as a general term
<jewel`{F}> yes very much so, at least for me
<drauma{M}> I thought I had ceased being ticklish totally, either cause i am older, or perhaps diabetic neuropathy, but with a bit of teasing ahead of time, sometimes not very much at all, I am quite ticklish
<kneels> but if the build up is slow..there is no "edge" to fall off of..its more of a slow climb up...i cant really get to the same place...i get hammered with pain and may scream bloody murder...but the the endorphins hit me like a ton of bricks ...and i just think...bring it on
<Sweet1`> the build up can be over a short or long period, depends on the can end with a very intense pain session
<Sweet1`> to go over the edge
<kneels> i dont think Max can do slow..he isnt that patient ;)
<Sweet1`> lol
<Sweet1`> slow can be 5 min
<Father_Max> hey
<MzTyger> one thing I find .. and this might be a bit off topic, but some of the scening I want to do, there just isnt time to do in a club setting, other people waiting for equipment, etc. So, despite the fact that I enjoy the build up, it's often impractical.
* stainless chuckles
<Sweet1`> it doesn't mean an hour of warm
* Father_Max wonders, "warm-up"
<MzTyger> well, I wasn't meaning an hour - but sometimes to get the result, you need to take space and time.
<kneels> here that Max... Sweet1` says you should do at least 5 minutes of warm up!
<drauma{M}> some warm up precedes the scene as formal ceremony, some follows, aftercare & submissive picking everything up
<Sweet1`> no kneels, that's not what i said
<Father_Max> lol
<kneels> umm.. Sweet1`..i was being funny..i would be surprised if i got 5 minutes
<jewel`{F}> Master has done as few as 5 minutes to as much as 30 minutes or more of warm up, the warm up time doesn't affect how deep i go so much as the time of the entire scene
<yummy> i'd never be able to pick everything up, after a good scene i can barely stand and have been known to have trouble sitting and not falling out of a chair
<Sweet1`> i would be too!
<Father_Max> hey?
<drauma{M}> well, for us its part of my gift to MyLady
* rose`petal{B`L} slips out quietly
<Kilted_One> anyone achieve this sub space with play other that pain play??
<Sweet1`> yes
<drauma{M}> yes
<drauma{M}> I think yes that is
<Father_Max> no
<Sweet1`> you don't need pain to get there, to go over the endorphin edge is different
<jewel`{F}> cleaning up the toys and putting everything away is expected of me as well drauma{M}, it may not be right after a scene but hours later
<kneels> we get pretty close with humiliation play..not for a while though
<jewel`{F}> i can go with out the pain play
<MzTyger> I have had different experiences with different submissives - sometimes simple bondage can send someone into a wonderful euphoric state.
<jewel`{F}> Master has had me in subspace strictly with the "mind fuck" all by words
<Kilted_One> what about props (chains floggers equipment) does that have an effect good/bad/indifferent
<stainless> I can barely put my clothes on after a scene, let alone clean up...
<Father_Max> i find it hard to walk after a scene
<Sweet1`> lol, me too
<stainless> :)
<drauma{M}> in the first session, on my birthday, Lady Merri orchestrated a way to refuse my request for being bound, she selected equipment that had faulty wrist cuffs - I faked it by grabbing the chains
<Sweet1`> or talk
<kneels> shakes her head at Father_Max..the only Dom she has ever seen offered water after a scene and the sub be ignored!
<MzTyger> I am usually exhausted, energy enough only to hug and hold and whisper to drauma that I love her
<stainless> LOL
<Kilted_One> so after a scene and sub space has been achieved how do you deal with coming down out of it??
<drauma{M}> I try hard to always have some core energy reserve in everything I do, vanilla or BDSM, it keep my back from collapse
<jen{SE}> cherry garcia icecream
<Sweet1`> mellon
<Sweet1`> lol
<drauma{M}> fruit or a scone
<MzTyger> lots of hugging and kissing, cool drinks, the praise if one is satisfied
<drauma{M}> and water
<drauma{M}> and the joy of being loved via a hug or whatever
* MzTyger nods
<Kilted_One> is there certain things that should/should not be done/heard during this coming down period??
<drauma{M}> probably, but too new to have experienced that
<Sweet1`> depends on the scene...if i'm coming back from the childlike state, a warm blankie is good...if i'm coming back from a harsh just for the dom scene, leave me alone
<MzTyger> well, I try not to overdo anything, after all both of you are in a different headspace, I do like talking it over afterwards.
<kneels> i dont like to be bugged..i dont think the Dom should demand arent in your right mind...i just want to be left alone..sometimes held maybe..but dont like poke and fondle and talk to me please
<kneels> dont talk to me i meant
<drauma{M}> hmm, there was one demo I did where it would have been nice if the demonstrating Domme had mentioned I was a virgin to the singletail she was about to use on me
<MzTyger> I find it is nice to separate stuff.. maybe hold each other.. talk later
<Kilted_One> how long does this coming down state normally last??
<drauma{M}> I find that almost impossible, want to debreif immediatly, but actually dont need that
<stainless> Oh god, I went through a caning demo with no warm-up whatsoever and I wanted to KILL SW after it lol
<Kilted_One> is there any lingering effects of having been in sub space over the next few days??
<drauma{M}> euphoria?
<jen{SE}> find i crash a few days after a heavy scene, get kinda cranky and sucky
<krista-F> same here
<drauma{M}> a glazed look on your friends faces when you go on and on...
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<stainless> crankiness...
<Kilted_One> has anyone experienced "sub drop"
* Kilted_One gags the bot
<stainless> yup
* jen{SE} hands up
<drauma{M}> not sure
<jen{SE}> find the harder the play the harder the drop
<yummy> that horrible crapy feeling a few days after playing - yup
<drauma{M}> depression after having been in subspace?
<yummy> pretty much
<drauma{M}> too new I guess, not yet
<Kilted_One> any advise on how ppl should handle it when it comes??
* Sweet1` is lucky that way, i don't get that
<drauma{M}> chunky monkey?
<yummy> realise that is what it is is key for me
<yummy> makes it easier knowing why
<jen{SE}> just recognise it for what it is and it is easier to deal with
<stainless> lol, I still don't know how to handle it
<jen{SE}> SE on the other hand just smiles and keeps His distance *grins*
<Sweet1`> lol
<yummy> playing again then helps too
<kneels> agreed jen...just know the world doesnt really suck are just dropped..and have a Dom that knows how to humor your moody suckyness
<drauma{M}> is that when you resort to throwing things jen?
<drauma{M}> :-)
<Sir_StephenS> I wonder what it is that bums people out after playing
<jen{SE}> yes, but it does get cummulative yummy, SE and i used to play every night, when we stopped for awhile it was a nightmare
<Sir_StephenS> just a chemical response?
<drauma{M}> maybe a chemical deficit...
<jen{SE}> *lol*, no i never throw things
<yummy> eeks i didn't realise that Justice
<yummy> the answer is never to stop playing i guess
<Sir_StephenS> mean like 24\7
<drauma{M}> maybe a nice chinese dinner afterwards, or some other fomr of replenishment for odd minerals etc
<Sweet1`> it's basically a physical withdrawal the body deals with the chemicals from the play
<stainless> dopamine...
<jen{SE}> yes we lived 24/7 and i was never without railroad tracks, so when it stopped for a while, major crash....
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<stainless> dopamine, seratonin and adrenaline levels all drop.
* drauma{M} thiks of snidely whiplash and jen as gwendolin