November 21 1999 EhBC Online Discussion

<BernieRoehl> Shall we get started, or should we wait?
* Kilted_One thinks we should get started
* BernieRoehl agrees with KO
<TheWolfe> maybe she is tending to some "family matters"
* BernieRoehl smiles
<Kilted_One> well Hebron is down and ppl are having problems getting on
<BernieRoehl> Here is the automatic message I just set for the channel:
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm.  Also note that the discussion is being logged.  If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick.  We recommend using raptor.ab.ca.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag.  Tonight's discussion topic is "D/s and Family Times".  The moderator tonight is trufriend.  Enjoy the discussion!
<BernieRoehl> Can someone (besides me) log the discussion, in case I lose my connection?
* Kilted_One is loggin
<lyxanna> doing it now
<LrdTZ> now all we need is the moderator.
<BernieRoehl> Thanks!
<^^triana^> i can log Sir Bernie
<^^triana^> <--bear
<BernieRoehl> tru suggested the topic herself.  My understanding of it is that she was
<BernieRoehl> wondering how integrated the D/s side of peoples' lives were with the rest of their lives.
<BernieRoehl> The subtitle was "how much is D/s in my life".
<BernieRoehl> So... let's hear some thoughts.  Is D/s just a small part of your life, or does it permeate every part?
* ^^triana^ wiggles her toes
<LrdTZ> Is does not permeate every part of my life but a good percent of it.
<canplay> thinks it can not help but be part of whole life
<tru_s{Ach}> finally!!
<BernieRoehl> Speaking for myself, I'm lucky enough to have most of my close friends know about my involvement.
<BernieRoehl> tru!!! Good to see you!
<mabs> yes me as well 
* BernieRoehl welcomes our moderator for tonight.... trufriend!
<^^triana^> most of my friends know about my involvement..lol..even my boss
<sweetslave{AF}> i think of it as it releates to my everyday routine...sometimes to to confinements at work or certain relatives...i am not able to be who i really am...everyone else knows who are close to me that i respect
<tru_s{Ach}> only took me 20 minutes to get here!
<sarah^sub> So far it's a fairly small part in that I don't have a steady person in my life but even if I did, I don't think it would be a part of my life that I would share with my kids.....they don't even want to know I'm having sex of any kind. And, the age my daughters in particular are, they need to discover who they are before adding this other component....adolescence is difficult enough
<tru_s{Ach}> sorry 'bout that folks
<^^triana^> aww sarah sub..kids..a whole new topic there..one we have discussed many times
<canplay> wonders what part of LrdTZ's life is not effected by D/s
<sarah^sub> I thuought the topic was family life
<LrdTZ> more my work canplay. when I leave the house I leave the D/s most of the time. Even though there are times when I have to be Dominant at work.
* ^^triana^ looks to our moderator so she can clarify the topic
<mabs> most of my friends and family know of mine 
<mabs> my boss is Domme! lol 
<LrdTZ> mine has no ppl skills 
<Trisha> Peeking in....
<tru_s{Ach}> the topic tonight is "D/s and family times"
<Trisha> newbie...
<{autumn}_U_> my boss and family know.....as well as my close friends.....the same is true for Master
<canplay> this one was not meaning the sex aspects of D/s .. but the mind set effects most of her time
<tru_s{Ach}> curious to know what people think that means to them?
<Trisha> lyxanna?...I knew a lyxanna from Hamilton...same one?
<Trisha> hello Kirspin
<victoria_angel{Flint}> tru, can you expand the topic being discussed....
<tru_s{Ach}> certainly victoria_angel{Flint}
<victoria_angel{Flint}> are we thinking about the 
<victoria_angel{Flint}> are we thinking about the family and D/s - as in our willingness to share our lifestyle choice?
<victoria_angel{Flint}> and I mean family - loosely....including friend, etc.
<canplay> well LrdTZ,, i bet You take more of Your D/s to work then You probably realize *smiles*
<tru_s{Ach}> "D/s and family time" to me, is how i can 'blend' the time spent with family (vanilla) and D/s activities.....harmoniously
<victoria_angel{Flint}> ah, thanks tru, 'blend' is a good word
* tru_s{Ach} smiles
<canplay> it would be in Your behavior ..Your attitudes ,,and out looks to others
<LrdTZ> oh i'm sure I do, but most time I have to keep my piece .still on probation till march then look out.
<victoria_angel{Flint}> ah, tru, for us here - it is in the mindset 
<tru_s{Ach}> go on victoria_angel{Flint}
<canplay> thinks it would be great to have others know..but this one only has Master that is aware of her lifestyle
<sarah^sub> Would suspect that most that know me at work would not suspect that i am submissive *L*
<tru_s{Ach}> how about everybody else....what do you perceive it to be?
<tired^bear^> tru..i got kicked by my server..what is the topic?
<tru_s{Ach}> the topic tonight is "D/s and family times"
<`Hardest> why not sarah?
<victoria_angel{Flint}> with a house full of kids, jobs, and such, Master and i use our free time to develop our relationship, however, i find myself more and more aware of how i function and my deep down feelings
<tru_s{Ach}> there are a lot of people here tonight, yet i'm not seeing too many answers to my question...
<KarenD> I think that 'vanilla' activities encompass more then just family....most of my workplace sort of knows that I'm into this stuff...but my birth-family doesn't
* Kilted_One thinks that your perception of the topic will depend on ones situation on the home front i.e kids or no kids....active relationship with folks or not
<sarah^sub> Because, I am known as rather a tough, ballsy if you like, no bs person who calls a spade a shovel and I've always been that way and to be honest, even I was rather surprised at my submissive side even though I'd had fantasies about it since I was a kid. Just waited an awfully long time to find out how much fun it can be *s*
<KarenD> the 'vanilla' friends that I have more or less know as well. I don't have a family of my own...no kids or spouse.
* tru_s{Ach} smiles at sarah^sub, and you said that all in one breath, right?
<shimmer``> i leave my family out of the equation, tru :) 
<mabs> with me half of my family is in and the other half out 
<KarenD> actually, coming out to one friend about my interest in this turned out to be a mutual....door opening
<sarah^sub> two of my friends know, the rest don't....even those two were surprised but... hey, do I have to watch my punctuaution in this?
<victoria_angel{Flint}> it would be detrimental to include the religious side of our family....
<shimmer``> my family wouldn't understand at all
* canplay agrees with shimmer
<tru_s{Ach}> i have my son and myself to care about primarily.....and my son is questioning 'differences' more and more, at almost 13, he understands an awful lot...more than most give him credit for
<sarah^sub> nor would mine
<mabs> well i don't say they understand but they do accept me for who i am 
<shimmer``> those with kids must have a tough time of it, tho
<victoria_angel{Flint}> shimmer - only lack of sleep....*s*
<shimmer``> me neither, sarah ... the opposite, in fact ;)
<tired^bear^> my family knows..all but the kids
<tired^bear^> my job kows
<tired^bear^> my friends..
<sarah^sub> They'd probably understand more if I were gay but to be submissive and all that entails.....nope
<tru_s{Ach}> i don't walk around with cuffs on or leave any toys lying around, but he does understand that people express themselves in many ways...sexually included
<victoria_angel{Flint}> our community and beliefs are much like the gay community not too long ago
<sarah^sub> Well, so do my kids but I can tell you, I've told a friend where my toybox is in case something happens to me....I don't want my kids finding them, or my family for that matter
<KarenD> what do you mean, victoria?
<victoria_angel{Flint}> lack of acceptance for gay couples - the attitude of some vanilla people
<tru_s{Ach}> my family is aware of my Court quoted "deviant lifestyle"....and their imaginations have run wild i'm sure....i've never admitted or denied anything to them
* KarenD hangs much of her toys on her bedroom wall like in 'O'
<victoria_angel{Flint}> yes, often the D/s life style is talked about as ABUSIVE and DEVIANT
<DukeDom> my kids know not to touch my gym bag :)
<victoria_angel{Flint}> even by therapists and social workers....
<canplay> knows most definatly that no one at her work would believe her submissive either
<concubinary> my sister knows about me but only because someone else told her. Now i am glad we can chat about it. She came out as les bian recently so we are much more open about both our sexualities
<KarenD> i think that is changing victoria :)
<sarah^sub> I think it is the perceived abusiveness of it that would cause a problem....you know....you mean you ash him to spank you?
<victoria_angel{Flint}> yes, it is but it will take a bit of time
<tired^bear^> sarah i am bi..my parents had a difficult time with that then this bdsm stuff,,,they figure bdsm is just kinky sex..bi..is well weird to them...
<tru_s{Ach}> alright, for those of us with children in our home.....how do you 'blend' D/s with your family times?  or do you?
<canplay> KarenD... this one wonders how those at work know?
<victoria_angel{Flint}> tired^bear - i would think that bi is more acceptable than D/s at this time
<KarenD> well, I guess without children, I can't participate anymore
<tru_s{Ach}> for those without children in your homes, how do you 'blend' D/s and family times with other family members such as parents or siblings...
<sarah^sub> I am lucky in that I have true joint custody so I have every two weeks to pursue this side of me
<Dsue> hello :)
<concubinary> sarah sub - i have had that, the problem of percieved abuse
<shimmer``> i live alone, so it's not a problem ... though my family wonders about my jewelery
* shimmer`` grins
<KarenD> canplay....one nosy coworker hunted me down on the Web and broadcast my personal site to most of my coworkers....that's how everyone found out
<Kilted_One> you still have family KarenD...just not your own offspring...
<victoria_angel{Flint}> here, even when the children are present, it is only a matter of 'the look' necessary to make a point
<tru_s{Ach}> shimmer, without family directly under your roof.....think of when you are with family members elsewhere then....
<mabs> my 9 year old knows but i also don't leave things laying around for him to trip over 
<KarenD> I don't have children in the home, KO and that seems to be the thrust of tru's discussion
<canplay> good idea sarah
<tru_s{Ach}> do you show any aspect of D/s publicly
<BernieRoehl> My parents live far away, and I have no siblings and no kids, so most of my knowledge of this is indirect.
<shimmer``> well tru, whenever family comes over i make sure none of my bondage gear is lying around, and that my leatherwear is safely stored away
<victoria_angel{Flint}> my Master thinks often i become submissive to aquaintances and even my kids - so yes, probably here...
<sarah^sub> thinking of a few times my toys have nearly been discovered *shudder*
<shimmer``> "submissiveness" is not something my family would link with what they think the "normal" me would be, ergo they would think that i was being coerced or some such
<BernieRoehl> Every submissive I've played with who has teenagers has had to eventually give them some kind of explanation.  The word "Master" slips out sooner or later, or they find a paddle or flogger, and they ask their mom what's up.
<concubinary> my mother visited my Master and i for nearly a month. She did not see our toys etc but the dynamics were there. She thinks Master is a bit too controlling lol but they get on great!                     
<tru_s{Ach}> so, that answers my question...you choose not to share the two shimmer.....you choose to keep D/s and family times separate
<shimmer``> i've almost had "Master" slip out a couple times
<mabs> i answer questions if i'm asked but aside from that it's not brought up  
<sarah^sub> concubinary *L*
* Kilted_One thinks that KarenD should look at tru's last question....not just about kids
<KarenD> I hide my toys and stuff from my parents as well....they are the only part of my life that I don't integrate.
<shimmer``> that's great concubinary :)
* BernieRoehl thinks it's better not to let kids (even teenagers) know, but it's hard to hide everything completely
* KarenD smiles at KO 'I'm slow but I do eventually catch on'
<tru_s{Ach}> kaat refers to her Master as "Master" when talking about Him in the house, in front of her 7 yr old daughter and my 12 yr old son.....neither of them think anything different about it
<sarah^sub> I don't flaunt it in public but then in many ways, I am a private person.....none of my romantic interests have met my kids
<victoria_angel{Flint}> question for those who wear jewelery - what kind is not too obvious, yet is expressive of the lifestyle?
<shimmer``> agreed, Bernie Sir :)
* vixen{KO} can identify with concubinary
<tru_s{Ach}> to my son, it is merely a nickname, a term of affection
* Kilted_One dcc's KarenD a huge sheet of velcro
<victoria_angel{Flint}> where i work - a leather collar is definitely out!
<shimmer``> well, i have two rings ... one that's a ring in a ring, and the other that looks like chains ... so far my family hasn't asked ;)
<victoria_angel{Flint}> shimmer - rings - for finger?
<concubinary> can i pm you victoria? i have a suggestion
<shimmer``> yes, victoria
<sarah^sub> oh my, the thought of wearing a collar to work....yikes *s*
* KarenD grins at KO
<canplay> is interested in your suggestion also concubinary
* KarenD has worn a collar to work in the past.
<shimmer``> i've worn a form of collar to work :)
<vixen{KO}> sure, concubinary.....inchannel if you don't mind.
<concubinary> sure, i just thought it was off topic so i didn't want to interfer..
<concubinary> is it okay or off topic?
<tru_s{Ach}> it's ok concubinary
<tru_s{Ach}> that's what these discussions are for each week.....to learn ideas and thoughts from one another
<KarenD> this was before I was outed there...before I even developed my website. It was a simple choker with his pet name for me on it. I just said it was a gift from the guy I was dating.
<concubinary> okay then, a ring of course or a simple necklace. i have a crystal one and a couple other beaded collars that i wear. To us they are collars but noone else would know
<victoria_angel{Flint}> concubinary, i am working towards earning a jewelery collar, but really want that item to be significant
<victoria_angel{Flint}> but to my employer, we have a strict dress code, including jewelery!!!
<concubinary> in my spare time (for free as a hobby) i make just simple beaded or woven bead ones
<concubinary> if it interests you. i don't do it for money just for friends
<shimmer``> i remember one girl at work saying to me :i could never wear a choker like that, it's too much like some sort of bondage thing ....! .. i nearly laughed
<mabs> am afraid i would have shimmer :)
* canplay smiles to shimmer
<victoria_angel{Flint}> so, shimmer, how'd ya respond?
<shimmer``> i just smiled and said ... "oh, i never thought of that" ;))
* shimmer`` grins
<tru_s{Ach}> sometimes diplomacy is called for in situations
<mabs> my but you are quick! lol 
<tru_s{Ach}> to help ease any embarassment
<shimmer``> although one person at work did clue in
<shimmer``> but he was cool with it :) i think my wearing stockings and garters under my uniform gave it away ... i was sort of adjusting my stockings ... that and the rings and the collar ... he just clued in
<tired^bear^> ..
<tired^bear^> grr
<canplay> during the contriversy of the Santa float in London, my boss said "sure next year the will allow the S&M wierdos in" i smiled and said "wut woo ,,i would like that " but he just figured i was joking
<concubinary> shimmer`` bright guy
<`Hardest> uniform?
<tru_s{Ach}> back to teh topic tonight......something i'm wondering......what does "family" itself mean to each of you....who does that include?
<shimmer``> i'm an RN, Hardest
<shimmer``> yeah, concubinary ... nilla with kinks - good guy
<Kilted_One> RN= real nurse
* shimmer`` hugs KO :)
* Kilted_One winks
<canplay> my family includes kids, parents and close friends as well
<victoria_angel{Flint}> ditto canplay
<mabs> yes i agree as well canplay 
* Kilted_One has one dad, two dogs and a vixen and her 16 yo son
<sarah^sub> agrees with canplay.....and close friends more than immediate familton in some ways
<tru_s{Ach}> i think if we can determine what 'family' and what 'D/s' mean to each of us....we can then have a better understanding of what the two together would mean
<shimmer``> my immediate family, and non-immediate ...friends, cats ...
<victoria_angel{Flint}> vixen, no comment as to KO's order ??
<canplay> i only concern myself with kids knowledge of my lifestyle ..don't give a hoot who else knows
<concubinary> immediate family (sister, brother in law, parents, nephew) my Master and close friends 
* canplay laffs @ victoria
* Kilted_One listed his immediately family first and then his latested editions
<shimmer``> i have a sling chair hanging from a hook in my living room ... if only my family knew ;))
* Kilted_One nudges vixen to respond ;)
* vixen{KO} knows the pecking order round here....the dogs don't wear a KOlar....LOL
* shimmer`` grins and huggles vixen girl
* Kilted_One lol
<concubinary> for me it does not harm me to be selective in who i am open with while there is a risk it would be uncomfortable with say my parents. Why borrow trouble in my case
<vixen{KO}> ;)
<tru_s{Ach}> my landlord used one of the o rings in my basement ceiling to balance himself while working on the humidifier! 
<shimmer``> good point, concubinary :)
<shimmer``> hahaha, tru!
<tru_s{Ach}> all he said was "I don't remember those there before" and went on about his business
<shimmer``> my parents would NEVER understand. Ever. i've told selected friends ... but very few. One was quite upset and it cause a rift between us, sadly
<canplay> my 14 yr old daughter has only seen me chat online in D/s room , where we have profile pics showing ,,she asked and i said it is like a role playing chat room, she dropped it *wipes brow*
<shimmer``> lol, canplay
<tru_s{Ach}> so, the general consensus i'm feeling tonight is that most prefer NOT to combine/blend/interact their D/s and family times....is that correct?
<victoria_angel{Flint}> it wouldn't work in our situation here tru....
<shimmer``> for me, tru
<tru_s{Ach}> that maybe we are not as 'openminded' yet as we would like to be or feel...
<canplay> i do not blend at all
<shimmer``> hey sweetone :)
<KarenD> what does 'openminded' have to do with not wanting to cause my parents undue stress?
<canplay> feels W/we are openminded ,,, it is our families that may not be
<victoria_angel{Flint}> humm, i don't think that 'we aren't openminded' because it is between us always, and family isn't needed to complete the feeling
<mabs> good point
<victoria_angel{Flint}> we also have to respect other people feelings and beliefs
<tru_s{Ach}> the openminded Karen, is referring to the general population.....their acceptance
<shimmer``> i'm openminded ...however i see no need to upset my parents .... it would
<tru_s{Ach}> our fear/concern of non-acceptance...
<KarenD> ahhh....I thought you were critiquing us here, tru...my apologies
<concubinary> tru_s, for me i am happy to discuss it with my sister and my best female vanilla friend. Otherwise no
<canplay> i have no need to educate the world ..i am happy ,,that is fine with me
<tru_s{Ach}> i have no right to critique anybody Karen....so i try not to
<shimmer``> it *is* hard to switch modes though .... i had been chatting with a Dom friend, then my sister called, i caught myself about to tell her about LadyA's ...
<victoria_angel{Flint}> it would be sad to think that someone close would become UNCLOSE because of disclosure, but i'm sure it happens
<Kilted_One> every day va
<vixen{KO}> some days, causing parental undue stress and the location of the will isn't necessarily a bad thang...   <ducking from the course that thunderbolt seems to be takin>
<BernieRoehl> I've had remarkable luck when "coming out" about BDSM to my friends.  All of them have accepted it, and some have been intrigued.
<concubinary> vixen, what works, works! My mother is dealing with my sister's news so mine is a bit much right now lol! My dad probably has slaves of his own or at least subbies and i MEAN that lol
<tru_s{Ach}> me too Bernie
<BernieRoehl> Still, there are a couple of friends who I can't tell because I know they wouldn't handle it well.
<victoria_angel{Flint}> ah, but is it more acceptable for a Dom/me to come out than a submissive???
<concubinary> Bernie, i agree with the intrigued part
* BernieRoehl smiles
<canplay> i think more can understand the Dom side then the submissive one
<KarenD> Bernie, have you told your parents?
<mabs> yes most of mine are just full of questions and very curious about my lifestyle
<curiouskitty> was thinkin the EXACT same thing victoria_angel{Flint}
<concubinary> victoria_angel, i think so
<tvsubbie4you> why would it matter, va{Flint}??? nice jewelry by the way ;)
<BernieRoehl> No.  I've considered it, but they're in their seventies and live far away, so there's no need for them to know.
<concubinary> like it's okay for women to Domme but not sub
<sarah^sub> seems to be a familiar thread appearing...okay to be Dom, less okay to be sub
<BernieRoehl> Most of my co-workers know.
<tru_s{Ach}> the response i've been getting is more surprise at being submissive then in the interest of D/s itself
<vixen{KO}> well, my parents are thrilled that i've finally found someone that can "handle" me....LOL
<victoria_angel{Flint}> yes, tv, Master is participative....
<mabs> my vanilla friends can't believe i'm sub
<canplay> general public understands the need of power,, and thinks Dom/mes hold it all ..if only they knew *grins*
* Kilted_One handles vixen every chance that he gets
* KarenD grins at vixen 'that's the response I expect my parents will have when I find the right man'
<tru_s{Ach}> well folks, we are down to the final few minutes, are there any last points anybody would like to make about D/s and family times? 
* vixen{KO} ^5's KarenD
* KarenD grins and returns the ^5
<snuggle{FF}> no one in my family has any idea that i'm a sub/slave .. they think i moved to be with my future wife :)) .. my friends knew adn often teased me about it.
<concubinary> canplay - my Dom DOES hold it all! Except the decision to leave, i can control that
<canplay> i feel there is an exchange of powers concubinary ,, Dom does not hold all here
<canplay> note, i did not say control *laffs*
<KarenD> that might work for you, canplay, but others differ
<canplay> true KarenD
* vixen{KO} stops the stopwatch
<KarenD> I lean more towards concubinary's style, myself....I might even give up right to leave
<tru_s{Ach}> thanks everybody, for coming in tonight...a tough topic to consider
<Kilted_One> concubinary..do you like 24/7 with your Master?
<KarenD> thank you tru
* vixen{KO} huggles tru
<Kilted_One> like=live
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, trufriend -- both for an interesting topic, and a great job of moderating!
<victoria_angel{Flint}> great tru!
<tru_s{Ach}> this officially ends tonight's discussion, please feel free to continue talking though...
* BernieRoehl applauds tru_s{Ach}
[shimmer`` SOUND]
* tru_s{Ach} curtsies to teh room
* Kilted_One hugs tru and says good jog on a tough subject and an even tougher night to get on line
* canplay thanks tru
<sarah^sub> thanks tru
<tru_s{Ach}> and i hope to see some of you tomorrow night at Lady A's....
<BernieRoehl> See you then, tru!