November 19 2000 EhBC Online Discussion

<^trufriend> ok...according to my clock it is now 9:00 so if we could kindly hold all hi's, bye's and hugs til 10:00.....
<bottoms_up38> zee *hugs8
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> hello to all the new faces
<zee> No ICQ UIN Yet.
<zee> hi! Sweetone{LT}
<bottoms_up38> hey tru *Huggles*
<Sweetone{LT}> heya zee :))
* zee zips her lip
<^trufriend> let us begin this evening's dicussion....The journal as a communication tool....
<^trufriend> and if i could spell it would be even better! lol
<King^> evening all
<^trufriend> let's start by asking....who uses a journal?
<zee> i find it is also a good communication tool not only for a One though for myself as well
* dalian raises her hand having 2 journals on the go
* zee holds her hand up
<^trufriend> i will be the first to admit that keeping my thoughts and such written down is somewhat scary
* genigrrrl also has one
<blush{ND}> i have in the past.. but i don't right now
<Kilted_One> this auto msg is in place...#bdsm-kw Greeting: Discussion in progress pls avoid Walton hellos and byes..topic is "The Journal as a Communications Tool"
<zee> how so ^trufriend?
<^trufriend> ...having had some of my thoughts from the past that were in writing used against me....
<Kilted_One> these logs are posted to our web page anyone not wanting their nick to show pls change it or leave now!!!!
<^trufriend> thanks KO
<^trufriend> i'm outta practice with this moderator thingie...
<dalian> for me...it was just trying to put into words, what my mind was playing for me...to really dig deep into inner truth
* Kilted_One bows to tru and says yw lass
<^trufriend> i' afraid of not getting my thoughts out properly.....what i think and sometimes what i say end up being different
<zee> exactly dalian.. to find the words then as i progressed i found it asked more questions of me then led to deeper thoughts
<blush{ND}> i found that it really helped me to really work things out in my own head.. things that were kinda half-formed thoughts.. became clear when i wrote them out
<^trufriend> how many Dom/mes here 'request' their subs to keep a journal?
<dalian> my favourite practice of writing is just writing for the sake of writing...and then revisiting a few days later...it is amazing what types of truths emerge and the clarity of definition
<^trufriend> how many subs here post their journals publicly?
* Kilted_One I have in the past but for specific time intervals only
<^trufriend> how many Dom/mes keep a journal of their own?
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> my Master would prefer i do but i have problems put words down on paper
<^trufriend> i can understand that autumn`breeze{JFC}
<zee> i have never posted my journal publicly though parts of it i have
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> for some reason i do better in a email
* Kilted_One hasnt kept one todate but thinks it is a great idea and will in the future
<mist{Rath}> for me my form of journaling is thru poetry
<^trufriend> what is the purpose of each of your individual journals....to each of those who keep one?
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> maybe it is spell check lol
<^trufriend> how would a Dom/me feel if their submissive asked them to keep a journal?
<dalian> i personally do not go for posting publicly...the journal is private and meant as a tool and has nothing to do with others entertainment value...a past Dom had me write a journal, which i still continue...i also have another journal which is ALL of dalian...and will never be seen by the eyes of anyone....lol
<zee> a means of charting my growth and learning. a means of sorting things out and verbalizing this i perhaps could but whisper
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> i agree zee
<^trufriend> a journal to be could be a calendar of events maybe...something to keep track of what i learned and when i learned it, what i shared with certain people....
<^trufriend> but what about sharing your journal for others to learn from?
<Kilted_One> I think that keepin a journal can be incorporated into a ritual...to let the submissive or slave know how well please the Master/Dom/me is of what they achieved that day/week/month
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> in some ways a check list is like that if done every 6 months
* ^kyttn^ sits down to listen
<Kilted_One> it can also be used to record punishements/achievments/goals ect
<dalian> i wonder how anyone could benefit from my own personal inner experiences...which are that...each person must experience things and interpret in their own way
<zee> ^trufriend since much of the journal is based on my own personal path.. i don't think others would get the same from it.. and i have found that the written word is taken in so many different ways. i would niether wish to influence or distract someone from anything.
<Kilted_One> are you not being too specific though zee, could others learn from your style of recording, what you record, its contents, why you record that sort of thing
<zee> yes Kilted_One Sir.. for i do put my weaknesses and strengths in there and the reinforcement of them.
* Kilted_One smiles and gives zee and eraser fur dat der "Sir" thingy ;))
<zee> perhaps Sir though to me, it is like speaking to myself
<zee> ahhhhh thought i had permission for dat thingy dingy thing!
<Kilted_One> darn
<cassy[T]> zee, do you allow your Master to read the journal?
<Kilted_One> wish I had kept a diary of permissions granted ;))
<zee> i sent a journal to my former Master everday
<zee> lol
* ^kyttn^ can't write down anything on the grounds she may be incriminated <g>
<arhiannah{R}> i keep an online journal....anonymous....but it's there for the whole world to see....if they know the nickname
<zee> now mine is handwritten as it has nowhere to go.. and i can write it anywhere!
<^trufriend> and why do you do it that way arhiannah{R}?
<Sweetone{LT}> how many use a journal as a way to communicate sensitive issues or concerns that may be hard to do face to face?
* ^kyttn^ raises her hand to Sweetone
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> no Master requires verbal
<zee> i use the journal as a venue for that Sweetone{LT}
<arhiannah{R}> ummm...never thought about the why's of it tru....i just really like the forum it's in...others are able to leave notes on the diaries...
<cassy[T]> I think it a daily journal helps the Master to see what is on his sub/slave's mind and is a great way, especially for long-distance relationships, to stay close and occasionally say things one finds difficult to say face-to-face
<zee> then it would lead to a verbal interaction once i had voiced with ' no couching' my concerns [blush{ND}:#bdsm-kw PING]
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> Franklin wants to deal with issues as they arise
<^trufriend> do you not think that verbal communication between people is better then words on paper or a computer screen
<zee> i know of sisters that send pics to speak of their interest in things they are unable to verbalize to their One
<^trufriend> less chance of mis-interpretation....imho
<zee> sure...if the people are good at verbalizing it ^trufriend
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> some times it is better
<`melody> am on for open honest comunication.. have seen journals become a crutch,,, and relationships drift ... due to them... if the lines are always open people speak clearly even difficult issues... i feel it leaves less room for confusion
<arhiannah{R}> i agree....but if one isn't able to communicate verbally with their SO at that point....they can read my words....consider them...
<dalian> i love reading back through the past year to see just how much i've grown...or find things i need to develop
* zee has a weakness in 'rocking the boat' issues
* ^kyttn^ curses her scroll
<^trufriend> sometimes i would have liked to do that dalian....but the fear of the wrong person finding those journals still haunts me...hard to get over
* arhiannah{R} hugz tru....
<dalian> i fond that by sorting through the thoughts first in the journal...it makes it much easier to clearly define the true issue in order to present it to the SO
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> i have always had a problem with commun so with me it is a isue we are working with
<^kyttn^> same here tru...that is why I no longer keep one..if it falls into the wrong hands, it could be dangerous
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> so a journal is not workable
<Kilted_One> would it olny be dangerous only if the journal had your name in it ie your real name??
<dalian> i used to feel the same way tru...only in my case it was photographs...it took a huge amount of will and courage to take pen in hand and have "domilkentation" of my thoughts...i guess that is my they are in a locked box
<Kilted_One> what if you had a journal nom de plume??
<^kyttn^> Kilted_One..I have a noisy estranged hubby and kids who can read :)
<`melody> never place anything in writeing you may not be prepared for others to see... things happen,,,
<arhiannah{R}> in the journal i keep....real names are forbidden
<cassy[T]> Kilted_One perhaps if one used a nom de plume it would be too easy to fall into a "fictional" account
* ^kyttn^ agrees with melody
<Kilted_One> then do it on line with a password ^kyttn^
<arhiannah{R}> so unless i give you the nick & the site on which it resides....it's all speculation
<Kilted_One> that would depend on the writer dont you think cassy[T]??
<cassy[T]> I think the point of a journal is to be honest, not only with whoever may be reading but also with oneself [AWAY] afk for a bit...pls leave your msg at the sound of the purr :)
<cassy[T]> perhaps so Kilted_one, but If I think of myself as an alter-ego or a nom de plume rather than who I am...
<^trufriend> whether in print for oneself or to share with another...honesty is crucial....look how much of history we can only imagine is correct becasue we have to rely on someon'e memory of an occurance?
<cassy[T]> it would be easier to dissociate some from the essence
<dalian> and history is always written by the victors
<Kilted_One> so then you think of you when you write the journal and you think that you have to "hid your true identity"...but if that doest work for you then maybe something else would??
<DarkAngel^> perception is written by the observours
<arhiannah{R}> sometimes it's easier to be unbiased & completely honest when your anonymity is protected
<arhiannah{R}> imho of course :)
<cassy[T]> May I give an example of something that I found easier writing about in a journal form?
<^trufriend> sure cassy
* DarkAngel^ does not utilize journals ,, but sees it as an interesting form of comunication
<`melody> how many times has anyone sat there and thought.. "how do I feel".. there are often no words for it...i believe body language tone as well as verabal are stronger ways of comunicateing... I can smile... but my eyes may be vacant
<blush{ND}> isn't a journal supposed to supplement verbal communication.. not replace it.. when it was read.. it was always discussed with me.. and we verbally dealt with any issues the cropped up
<cassy[T]> I had had a scene with Master. It was a severe caning and I lost count somewhere around 30 or so (it was the first time I've ever lost count) he insisted I began again and when I started over at one I said "One!" instead of "one thank you Master and he said "one what?" and I said "One again, because I screwed up" and after the scene I would not accept aftercare
<blush{ND}> it opened up new doors.. and caused us to communicate even more
<^trufriend> exactly blush....it should never replace verbal comunication
<cassy[T]> I had misbehaved and was unsure about where the behaviour came from. I thought about it for a few days before I felt comfortable discussing my behaviour
<^kyttn^> 30 canes???? *THUD*
<arhiannah{R}> i don't use my journal as the *only* method of communicating with Him...it's supplementary...but verbal communication is limited in our case since He still lives in the UK....
<cassy[T]> then I wrote about my feelings in a journal form and emailed them to Master even though we live together
<cassy[T]> it was easier for me to explain "anonymously"
* zee smiles to cassy[T]
<cassy[T]> face to face I would have been too emotional
<cassy[T]> it was all about pride and I was ashamed of being too proud to behave appropriately
<^trufriend> is it a fear of emotions that we use the journal for?
<cassy[T]> and I felt I didn't "deserve" his aftercare
<^kyttn^> I can get out my true feelings much easier in pen form
<mist{Rath}> am not sure how Master feels about journaling, will have to ask Him
<^kyttn^> dear cassy.....aftercare is *always* deserved and much needed
<Kilted_One> would that not be a decision that your Master should make cassy??
<cassy[T]> it would Kilted_One, but I was "punishing" myself for misbehaving
<cassy[T]> and it was something I couldn't explain face-to-face so I wrote
<genigrrrl> i don't believe it to be fear of emotions, but a simpler way of communicating...with more time to contemplate thoughts and feelings, unlike regular conversation where you must be thinking "on the ball"
<Sweetone{LT}> but the flip side of that genigrrrl, is that you can alter what you've written
<Sweetone{LT}> or write it to your audience
<Kilted_One> would it be true to say that "more thought' is give before committing it to paper when the words are written?? hence they be more correct more encompassing???
<ananse> i read somewhere once that women write journals to be read by others -- whether they expect anyone to actually read them or not.
<arhiannah{R}> it can be altered...but i keep my journal for me...not my audience....i don't ask anyone to read it...
<ananse> would you let your master read your journal if he asked? anyone?
<cassy[T]> Kilted_One, one can be apologetic for words spoken, but one can never take them back... on paper we can revise, rewrite, rethink what we are saying
<blush{ND}> i think thats right KO.. and at the ssame time.. things can be put in a more clear manner that will make more sense to the reader
<Mltdwn> she would have to let Me....
<Mltdwn> no choice in the matter
<glory{Mlt}> i wouldnt see that as being a choice ananse
* glory{Mlt} grins at her Master
<blush{ND}> in my case.. it was my Master that insisted i write one
<ananse> exactly what i mean. maybe slaves also write journals to be read.
<arhiannah{R}> Master reads my journal as often as He wants to...
<ananse> and i meant that to apply to all genders of Master :)
* zee was not allowed to edit or spell check her journals
<`melody> say i write a journal.. write those feelings.. chose those words that suite me... my expression at that moment.... what happens when they preceieve what is being said as very different than what you were trying to put across.....
<^trufriend> which can happen quite often....
<ananse> like trying to coomunicate your moods through email -- it can be very hard to get the full feeling or emotion or state of mind from the written word, no matter who's writing
<zee> i have had that happen `melody just as verbally too
<cybersweet> does anyone use their journal to track their journey since begining this lifestyle? before Master, during Master and maybe even after Master?
* cassy[T] nods in agreement with zee
<Sweetone{LT}> how many find writing in a journal impersonal? or is that comforting?
<^trufriend> i honestly don't know too many people that completely see eye to eye on their personal thoughts and/or ideas
<^trufriend> so misunderstandings are bound to ahppen
<`melody> everyone brings thier own slant or history into a situation so is it not better to imediately openly comunicate before there is discord
<zee> it is comforting to me....even more comforting when the journal is followed up on
<cassy[T]> a journal, to me is very personal Sweetone{LT} I say things there that I wouldn't necessarily say in person
<zee> cybersweet.. i am doing that through your suggestion. ;)
<ananse> writing in a journal often "blanks" my mind. if there is something i am stressed on or worried about or finding overly intense, if i write about it, then i can stop thinking about it
<DarkAngel^> I agree `melody ,,,, I have assigned storries to prospective subs before ,, it also seems to open people up
<Sweetone{LT}> (all) are there times when you simply can't write anything in the journal?
<arhiannah{R}> yup
<mist{Rath}> for me it was most of the time lol
* cassy[T] nods
<mist{Rath}> i was terrible when it came time to communicate verbally or in the journal
<mist{Rath}> but i found that poetry worked for me much better
<mist{Rath}> perhaps at times too good, as i made my Trainer cry with the first one i wrote
<`melody> true.. for those less comfortable with face to face formal comunication a stry or poem is a gentle form of comunication...
<zee> of course Sweetone{LT}.. many times yet i know most times it is a protective thing i do
<mist{Rath}> but to look at a blank page of a journal, it just sat there blank
* cassy[T] looks around at the Dominates
<Sweetone{LT}> protective zee?
<zee> yess.. as in i don't wont to go there right now!
* DarkAngel^ likes having a sub author a fantacy ,, in story form ,,,, freestyle journal so to speek
* Mltdwn looks at cassy[T]
<Sweetone{LT}> lol, ok :)
<cassy[T]> I am curious how the Dominates try to make it easier for their submissive/slave to communicate with them verbally, do you encourage journals? Would you rather the submissive talk face-to-face even if he/she is a snivelling mass of nose-blowing teary eyed tissue-balling
* ^trufriend is working on one of those now DA....but having difficulty doing that thought to print thing...
<zee> easy way out i know.. yet there are times when things are better done in another time, another frame of mind.
<Mltdwn> I insistin on communication...sometimes in the form of an email...writting online icq discussion and face to face.
<zee> DarkAngel^ Sir. i do that quite often having written for erotica magazines at one time.
<Sweetone{LT}> zee, does that protectiveness come out as writers block?
* Kilted_One only encourages a journal for specific events such as recording orders, events, punishment...feelings during punishement...that sort of thing..day to day journals can be awful boring
<Mltdwn> open verbal communication I feel is utmost important...but not always the best means.
<zee> that would be the cop out word for it Sweetone{LT} lol
<Sweetone{LT}> lol
<Lotta_Skull> I encourage all types of comunication ....though My one doesnot keep a journal we send cards from time to time and the ocasional letter We live together most often we manage verbal comunication ..
<Mltdwn> I also give My slave tasks to write about certain topic or events...scenes...then they can be discussed
<^trufriend> i think the tedium of writing every single day can get monotonous....but the therapy it provides in the interim can be very enlightening...
<Mltdwn> used as an aid in planting a seed for our next scene or for replaying a scene past.
<zee> it is silly but at times i find it not fulfilling to write of my thoughts for no one to see
* ^kyttn^ nods her head to trufriend
<^trufriend> for the writer and for teh one reading if it is from their own partner
<^trufriend> we have a number of you here this evening that have not commented on this so far....what are some of your thoughts?
* Kilted_One agrees with tru.... insisting on writing daily just for the sake of it is stupid
<elbowfetish> I love to have subs write a journal. If I'm writing the script, it's her part to write how it makes her feel.
<^trufriend> there have been a lot of wonderful thought provoking comments here tonight as well....
* valkeryievixon has been writing fantasy for master for quite a while but not a true journal
* ^kyttn^ has never written a journal for anyone else but herself
<elbowfetish> I insist on a journal of sorts for long distance or online exchanges. In face to face meat space, something verbal and interactive can replace it, to a large extent.
<^trufriend> and how has that journal made you feel kyttn?
* arhiannah{R} grins....well i started writing in my journal before i thought about telling Him...but it was difficult to explain my frame of reference to Him if He didn't have something to refer to....kinda like being handed an open-book test.....without the book :oP
<`melody> gets herself in enough trouble with her um readily available verbal expression.. with out adding more fat to the fitre by writeing ..
<^kyttn^> tru, I write journals infrequently in times of great stress...to work out feelings...I esp found it useful when I was recovering from a debilitating illness
<DarkAngel^> how very oral of you `melody *innocent grin*
* ^trufriend could use that now!
<^kyttn^> LOL, melody..that would be my prob too
* `melody bats her lashes a charming smile apn her lips...
<tndr> oral is my best form of communication
<^trufriend> well folks...any last thoughts before we wind up for the evening?
<mist{Rath}> *whispers to melody* stompin tom...
<valkeryievixon> mine too `melody
* ^trufriend laughs at tndr
<cassy[T]> ^kyttn^ I write my journal the same way... infrequent posts, but meaningful to me
* mist{Rath} has noted that melody can get others into trouble with her oral skills too :p
<arhiannah{R}> lol
* `melody roars with laughter
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> well good nite all be safe
<^trufriend> please feel free to continue chatting but according to my trusty clock...the time is now 10:00
<^trufriend> thank you to everybody who contributed this fine evening....
<Kilted_One> ty tru for a very lively discussion...well done lass