November 17, 2002 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "One Dom, Multiple Subs -- Building a 'Stable' Relationship". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<lilmunchkin> just in time too
<abitbent> hello cyber Bernie
<Fyre{j}> somebody start logging just in case
<jewel`{F}> my logs are on Master
* `abi looks at jewel's logs
<Fyre{j}> So everyone, how many have experience with poly relationships?
* `abi raises her hand
<tc-terri> i do
* Fyre{j} smiles .... anyone care to share their experiences both the positive and negative parts?
<lilmunchkin> just cyber here
* `abi pushes the bot out of the moderator chair so Fyre{j} can have a comfy seat
* jewel`{F} flashes abi her logs
<abitbent> from the outside looking in, i'd say the failure rate of them is pretty high.
<BernieRoehl> Sorry, just got in
<Fyre{j}> any particular observations as to why that occurs abitbent?
<BernieRoehl> Failure rate of multiple-sub relationships, or D/s relationships in general?
<lilmunchkin> i would say it depends on the Dom and the subs in the relationship
* jewel`{F} scoots closer to Fyre{j} and hopes that BernieRoehl hasn't access to ice
<abitbent> well i'm no expert Fyre{j}... but communication, seems to always be a problem.
* BernieRoehl smiles
<krista-F> and lets not forget the green monster
<`abi> relationships are complicated ... and the complications rise exponentially with the number of people involved
<Lady_Meadows> why do we alwasy assume it is one Dom 2 subs...what about 2 Doms one sub
<Lady_Meadows> I've been there
* Fyre{j} plants jewel` firmly between Himself and Bernie and hope her wigglin' doesn't distract the room
<krista-F> did you enjoy it Lady_Meadows?
<Fyre{j}> Is there more to it than just communication, what about negative emotions like jealousy?
<Lady_Meadows> it can be very enjoyable, but also complicated...2 people can be enough to handel but three people trying to communicate can be murder!
* jewel`{F} tries to sit as still and quiet as she can hoping they will forget she is here
<rose{MD}> i agree with Lady Meadows. i have had a time communicating with Masters wife.
<Lady_Meadows> you must all be very commited to constant communication other wise it will be a quick burn and then just smoke and ashes
<rose{MD}> But thankfully we get along well most of the time
<krista-F> that would seem to be a problem inherent....with multiples
<lilmunchkin> wouldn't you find it difficult because what if one told you to do one thing and the other told you to do the opposite....which one do you obey?
* BernieRoehl is dubious of one sub and two or more Doms -- "a servant of two masters", so to speak
<jewel`{F}> the one who's collar you wear munchie
<Lady_Meadows> quite offten when there are just 2 people we forget what we have and havent discussed, but when there are 3 it is even more difficult
<krista-F> this girl will be meeting her Trainers slave/wife this coming weekend.....but we have communicated with each other
<rose{MD}> i wish you all the best krist-F
<Cossack1> and you will love that meeting will make you all the more at ease with your see his slave..and how devoted she is to him.
<BernieRoehl> So who here has actually been in a D/s/s relationship?
<krista-F> this girl has nothing but admiration for her....and that attitude helps.....
<rose{MD}> Bernie Sir as you know i have been with Master for several weeks in the summer. With His Domme wife too
<terri{MM}> rose may i ask a question please
* BernieRoehl nods at rose{MD}
<rose{MD}> of course terri{MM}
<BernieRoehl> Anyone else?
<`abi> moi
<terri{MM}> wondering if in your relationsip, is there one primary Dominent, or are both equal ?
<terri{MM}> yes Bernie Sir, i am in one now, and have been in another in the past, both poly
<rose{MD}> Master is the prominant. And right now they are looking for a slave to be owned by both of them.
<rose{MD}> i belong to Master only
<terri{MM}> i see, it would be difficult, to belong to two Dominants, esp. if the styles were different
<rose{MD}> i agree there
<terri{MM}> i think that one of the things necasary for the submissive who is in a poly, with two Dominants, is to feel "thrilled" for lack of a better idea, that his dDominant is happy with the "partner" Dominant
<terri{MM}> idea=word
<MysticMz> Why do their styles have to be the same?
<terri{MM}> they dont Mistress,
<terri{MM}> but it would be difficult to be getting two different messages
<lilmunchkin> in a relationship like that ideas could be different as long as the two Dominants are on the same wave ie rules where the submissive is concerned
<MysticMz> agreed's all about communication
<BernieRoehl> Right, but one important question is which way the communication flows
* rhiannon{KO} thinks that, that is what makes or brakes a poly....(the communication)
<rose{MD}> Sometimes the things you say or write are misunderstood easily in a relationship like a poly one'
<MysticMz> is it any different with two subs? Do you treat them both the same, not taking their individual personalities into account?
<Kilted_One> doenst it have to "flow" both ways to call it communication??
* BernieRoehl agrees with rhiannon{KO}, and adds that it's true for non-poly relationships as well
<rhiannon{KO}> yes BernieRoehl that is very true...
<BernieRoehl> Yes, absolutely. But I can see room for miscommunication if A talks to B, B talks to C, and C talks to A. They might all hear slightly different versions of the same message, which creates ambiguity.
<terri{MM}> i believe you would have to take the individual personalities into account, for subs and for the Dominants,
<lilmunchkin> then all should sit down together and talk about everything
<slave_earl> may a stranger comment?
<BernieRoehl> Of course, slave_earl
<BernieRoehl> There are no "strangers" here. Or at least, no one here is stranger than anyone else.
<terri{MM}> lol
<rose{MD}> lol
<Seville{s}> bdsm-kw...where there are no stragers....only friends you haven't met
* BernieRoehl smiles
<Seville{s}> I saw that outside a bar once
<abitbent> i think it's important for the "third party in" to realize that there still is a "primary" couple.
<slave_earl> if a slave has more that one Dominant, how could he/she have equal laoyalties to both, do not believe it is possible to serve two Masters for long, just cacn not be done, too worship two at once
<terri{MM}> yes abitent, that is most important
<shadoe{S}> soooo.. how does a Master serve more than one submissive/slave equally then?
<TomDLux> Hi folks
<rhiannon{KO}> i don't agree with you slave_earl
* BernieRoehl suspects slave_earl is correct, and that one Dom and multiple subs is the more common/stable configuration
<rhiannon{KO}> so true shadoe{S}...
<shadoe{S}> it's generally accepted that doms can have more than one submissive/slave
<shadoe{S}> why not the opposite way as well?
<rhiannon{KO}> maybe common, BUT not the only way..
<Lady_Meadows> the same as a mother loves more then one child
<Fyre{j}> I would imagine that each partner in the relationship satisfies a separate need than another
<TomDLux> You can command two different people, but can you obey two different people, without conflicts?
<Lady_Meadows> nods at Fyre{j}
<shadoe{S}> Bernie.. that's sooo passe
<shadoe{S}> i think there's a lot of subs who could handle more than one Master
<rhiannon{KO}> i can serve two different Masters at the same time, it may not be 100% equal, but i will have feelings and loyalties to each of long as they are close with eachother, and agree on the type and structure of the relationship, then i as a slave can adapt...
* BernieRoehl smiles at shadoe
<Seville{s}> geeeee rhiannon are we talking about you in the living room again?
<Symmetre[t]> I have very good friends in the States ... married couple, both strongly dominant ... who have a poly household with three submissives. There is no issue with loyalty that I can see, with anyone feeling more loyal to one or the other. Thay have been together (the 5 of them) for years ... and are supremely happy
* rhiannon{KO} giggles @ Seville{s}...
<terri{MM}> i believe it can be done with two Dominants, as long as the sub recognises the primary relationship, understands the need he fullfills for the Primary Dominant, and the secondary Dominant, and is happy fullfilling and expanding those needs he is fullfilling
<Kilted_One> Im sure that there are several "double Dom/me" households that share their slave/submissives and have great fun doing so
<TomDLux> On the other hand, you might say that rather than separate masters, both those examples are 'team' Master-ships
<rhiannon{KO}> i am sure there is ..;)
* abitbent agrees with terri{MM}
<shadoe{S}> there's an online journal .. where upon the situation is exactly this.. sub and two doms.. and they are doing very well.. for about 3 years now
* BernieRoehl is pleased to hear it
<Symmetre[t]> in the case of my friends .... two subs are female, one male ... so perhaps the sexuality issue (everyone's straight) takes the place of specific loyalties
<priceless_whore> i agree TomDLux...i think for the dual Dom/me aspect to work well..a Dom/me couple would be the less problematic type...they would be a united front
<TomDLux> On the other hand, totalyl separate masters or mistresses, who have different ideas of ownership, different ideas of good slave behaviour, and no particular desire to co-operate ...
<abitbent> then there is no compatibility there TomDLux... so why explore with those particular people.
<Symmetre[t]> also ... the marriage pre-dated any of the subs ... so as priceless_whore suggests, there really is a united front in their house
<rhiannon{KO}> agree abitbent...why go down that road when there is no common ground???
<MysticMz> that's a deadly combination TomDLux
<abitbent> being able to back away from the relationship, without affecting the primary couple is an important thing to keep in mind, if things aren't going smoothly.
<abitbent> from a third party point of view.
<rhiannon{KO}> but, if it is a true poly, then there shouldn't be a primary and a secondary??? should there?
<terri{MM}> why not?
<Kilted_One> smoothy??? is there such a thing in a poly relationship?? <grins>
<Seville{s}> even the mormaons number their wives
<rose{MD}> When i am with Master many times his wife will give me my duties to do. But i know they have come from Master
<Seville{s}> mormans even
<terri{MM}> i guess there might be different definitions of poly
<priceless_whore> well i think we subs pick up habits of behaviour that to One are pleasing...and to another may find unacceptable...i for one would have a hard time serving two that are very different in their wants
<abitbent> hard question rhiannon{KO}... .. why shoot for tru polly if it's impossible to achieve though.
<Kilted_One> ty shadoe{S}
<rhiannon{KO}> but it is not "impossible in all situations....
<BernieRoehl> I've discovered that everyone has their own flavour of poly, which makes sense to them. Many, but by no means all, use primaries and secondaries.
<rhiannon{KO}> very true BernieRoehl..
* Kilted_One wonders if numbering the 'wives or slaves" would be easier that trying to remember all of the names???
<shadoe{S}> velcome
<abitbent> lol KO...
<dalian> lol
* TomDLux loans KO a tattoo needle
<terri{MM}> i am sure the primary Dominant, would be training the sub to meet the "family's" needs
<Seville{s}> actually Kilted I usually call every one in a cast the same name
<TomDLux> flourescent, so you can identify them in the dark
<Seville{s}> it makes it easier
<Seville{s}> and there are no hard feelings
<Kilted_One> you there?? Seville{s}??
<Seville{s}> I think so
* Kilted_One smiles was asking what you called them "you there"
<priceless_whore> i for one would have to be number i dont think i could do poly...i am too selfish perhaps...i am not a jealous type at all..i couldnt care less what my Dom does with long as he is honest about it and i dont "need" him for anything...but i still have a need to be the priority
* Symmetre[t] could never do poly ... I don't share well ;)
* abitbent wonders if subs by nature have an easier time with it.
<rhiannon{KO}> i think so abitbent..
<rhiannon{KO}> subs tend to share toys better then Doms do...*giggles*
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> o: More to do with female vs male I think
<Fyre{j}> interesting hypothesis abitbent
<Seville{s}> wondering why selfish always is made to seem like a virtue
<terri{MM}> lol
* abitbent is male... the last time i checked.. .and is hardly jealous Omy_oasis{Omy}... may be just different though.
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> O: could have subs with different traits that fulfill the relationship as a whole
<priceless_whore> i dont think being selfish is a virtue Seville{s}...why would you think so?
<rhiannon{KO}> let me ask this question, do
<Fyre{j}> probably from watching too many Michael Douglas movies where 'greed is good"
<rhiannon{KO}> do Doms feel that they can fulfill all a submissives "needs or wants" by just Himself???????
<Seville{s}> well usually people always hold up their virtues
<Seville{s}> and not their flaws
<priceless_whore> well i think there is a big difference between sharing..or not caring about play/sex...and actually living with or sharing a relationship with another sub
<Seville{s}> No rhiannon
<rhiannon{KO}> or Herself (sorry for the sexist remark)
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> O: No I don't think its possible rhiannon{KO}
<Seville{s}> I think a Dominant can fulfill their own desires with the submissives
<rhiannon{KO}> Thanks for Your honesty Seville{s}..;)
<Seville{s}> that's why we need help
<Kilted_One> as with life I think anyone who thinks the can "fullfill all of someones needs" is very much delusional. It is impossible to be everything to someone
<Seville{s}> and other dominants to help us
<priceless_whore> i think some can rhiannon{KO}...although fufilling them may mean making the sub work herself for her goals
<Seville{s}> smiling
<rhiannon{KO}> lol@Seville{s}
<BernieRoehl> No, I don't think it's possible for any one person to fulfill *all* of another person's needs -- regardless of the power dynamic between then
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> Hmm better change...O: and 0: look more like faces then who's talking
<priceless_whore> but filling them may mean showing her the direction to fill them herself
<abitbent> What seems to be the common reason of why poly fails then?
<abitbent> or reasons
<rhiannon{KO}> true some cases that may be...
* Kilted_One maybe some are confusion "needs" with "wants" too???
<rhiannon{KO}> i think it is because of jelousey in some of the cases...
<BernieRoehl> I think the same reason many non-poly relationships fail, abitbent. Not that I have an answer for that question.
<terri{MM}> that is likely the primary reason rhiannon
<priceless_whore> true Kilted_One..if a sub has actualy needs..i believe the Dom she is with should be able to fill them...even if all that means is pushing her to fill them herself..wants are different
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> Omy: I think the communication breaks down...the politics of the relaltionship reach a point where you no longer care
<abitbent> i still think the third party in needs to recognize how poly affects the primary relationship. It always seems that when poly fails, the primary relationship suffers from then on.
<Kilted_One> someone once said the relationship fails when there is less that 50% positive energy happening
<priceless_whore> but is it poly if there is a primary relationship? or is it a couple that has a third involved?
<rhiannon{KO}> good question priceless_whore....
<abitbent> i think so priceless_whore...
<Symmetre[t]> my viw of poly is that everyone's on more or less equal emotional footing ... no primary or secondary status
<BernieRoehl> I think that's mostly a question of semantics, priceless_whore. I would consider it a poly relationship if there are more than two people involved
<dalian> I also think the third party suffers from then on as well
<MysticMz> is it a poly relationship if there is no sex involved?
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> Omy:If you carry a primary relationship...are you not set up to fail from the get go if you then try treating the third as an equal?
<`abi> yes MysticMz ... relationships are about more than sex
<Seville{s}> well yes they are more than sex
<Seville{s}> but it's easier to say that if you are getting some regularly
<MysticMz> agreed....but I think it is usually the sex that causes a lot of the problems in poly relationships
<terri{MM}> why would the 3rd be treated as an equal, ? no need, although, the 3rd would want to know he/she is an important aspect, cherrished perhaps,
<`abi> I don't think so MysticMz ... I think it's the emotional attachment that causes the most jealousy
<dalian> so the third is simply disposable at whim?
<Symmetre[t]> in the case of my friends in the States ... the only dynamic that exists is the dom-sub one ... there doesn;t seem to be any kind of primary or secondary relationships there ... at least that are evident to an outsider like myself
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> Omy: I agree terri, but many try to treat each as an equal thus each cherished...the two subs in alot of cases I think would compete for the Doms time.
<terri{MM}> no not at all, one doesnt dispose of cherrished posessions .
<priceless_whore> oh i disagree MysticMz...i couldnt care less who they play or has sex with...but if he wasnt there for me if i really needed him...then why would i have a relationship with anyone?
<abitbent> still Symmetre[t].. i wonder if there is a silent battle for place.
<rose{MD}> i have heard some in poly say they feel no jealousy and never did. i am not to sure of that because this is a natural human emotion
<Symmetre[t]> there could be abitbent ... but as i said, the five of them have been together for many years ... if such struggles exist, they don;t seem to be enough to cause significant problems
<rose{MD}> You can get over it of course
<MysticMz> if you can have sex without emotion, then perhaps it could work
<abitbent> well then there's hope it seems Symmetre[t].. lol
* Kilted_One thinks that we had better get Spock in here to help with that one MysticMz ,smiles
<Symmetre[t]> I think in their case ... it isn;t a "couple" mentality as a "family" mentality ... I don't pretend to understand it tho
<priceless_whore> rose..i can honestly say i feel no jealousy if the Dom i am with plays with or has sex with another woman...however..i would never have a poly relationship because i expect to be the priority
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> I think that is an important aspect of it MysticMz
<priceless_whore> i would be jealous of an emotional attachment with another
<rose{MD}> i can understand that priceless. Everyone has their own needs
<rhiannon{KO}> but where would the feelings of jealousy come from???? why feel jealous?
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> So if you were hot to trot one night priceless_whore and he'd just come back having had his'd expect to be "satisfied"?
<rhiannon{KO}> would it be insecurity...that He/She might love the other one more???
<Kilted_One> fear is a natural emotion but if we never feel threatened then we never feel fear, is that not similar to saying that I have never felt jealous??
<priceless_whore> no rhiannon{KO} would be that he then was equally responsible to take care of that person as play is one thing..but to take on responsiblity for another sub is different
<rose{MD}> is it jealousy or insecurity or both???
<priceless_whore> i get possesive..but not jealous..does that make sense?
<rhiannon{KO}> hummmmm, but what about all the responsibility He/She has for Her/His kids, or work????
<priceless_whore> no Omy_oasis{Omy}...although i probably would be taken care of...i meant emotional needs
<rhiannon{KO}> He/She must then share the time between you and them..
<rose{MD}> i have no jealousy about Master and His wife . Now i can't really say about them getting another slave.
<`abi> I don't think jealousy is the problem ... I think it's how you manifest that feeling that makes the difference
<rose{MD}> But Master and i talk about it so that is good
<priceless_whore> well that is my point rhiannon{KO} much on ones plate then something gets short-changed
<terri{MM}> rose what if His Wife took on a male sub ?
<rhiannon{KO}> i understand that too priceless_whore, but i also think that the right combination can be achived by 3 or more people...and IF one is lucky enough to experience a sucessfull poly, then they are all the more happy, experienced, fulfilled, and satisfied...
<rhiannon{KO}> IMHO
<abitbent> What needs would two subs fulfill, that one can't? Other than gender issues.
<shadoe{S}> the same needs that two masters would fill
<Seville{s}> well might like art and the other might like skating
<abitbent> so find a sub that likes both Seville{s}
<`abi> same reason you might have more than one child abitbent ... everyone brings something different
<MysticMz> and one could be a great cook and the other great at laundry
<shadoe{S}> and you may have a sub who likes both art and skating
<abitbent> perhaps abi..
<Seville{s}> laughing
<rose{MD}> If it was only her sub terri{MM} i would likely have no problem. i guess it is just the thought of another woman.
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> Omy: a DOm may have varied tastes that can't be fulfilled by one slave.
<rose{MD}> It is new to me and will take some time to get used to.
<Seville{s}> well I will be sure to put that out on while I lokk for the PERFECT ONE!!!!!
<Seville{s}> shaking my head
<shadoe{S}> saying it's okay for a Dom to have more than one sub.. but not okay for a sub to have two dominants.. is just plain daffy
<MysticMz> just need to define your needs and wants Seville <g>
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> Omy: There are different aspects to each sub may serve his creative mind, and another his intlectual
<priceless_whore> i agree that i think it can be done rhiannon{KO}..i just think for me it would have to come from someone that i really WANTED to be poly with..that i would enjoy having a relationship with as well because the two of us would also fufill each others needs for friendship/intimacy...otherwise if we were both looking to the same Dom for it..i would feel too possesive..not sexually..of time and emotional fufillment
<Seville{s}> oh really Mystic
<Seville{s}> well I will define that next week at dinner
<Seville{s}> ]smirk
<rhiannon{KO}> i can relate to that priceless_whore..;)
<MysticMz> Hey!! I thought you were cooking!!
<Seville{s}> not only cooking but taking pictures
<Kilted_One> and making movies??
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<shadoe{S}> MysticMz.. we even have new furniture that is almost comfy!
<MysticMz> Lucky shadoe
<priceless_whore> i absolutly think a Dom that throws two subs together of HIS choosing that may not have thier own just asking for a household from hell
* BernieRoehl wonders if taking pictures of people while they cook is some new fetish he hasn't stumbled across yet
<shadoe{S}> you should see the aprons Bernie!
<Seville{s}> Please come visit Bernie
* rhiannon{KO} puts a gag on the modbot....shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
* BernieRoehl smiles
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> We'd agree with you priceless_whore
<Seville{s}> Dom's in aprons is a very specialized kin
<terri{MM}> lol@ Bernie
<Seville{s}> kink
<MysticMz> I'll let you know Bernie....check Stephens website for the updates!!
<Kilted_One> who said anything about having and apron??
* BernieRoehl imagines leather aprons, with studs
<BernieRoehl> Will do, MysticMz
<terri{MM}> i was wondering if i can do the laundry ?
<Seville{s}> yes you can terri
<shadoe{S}> i dunno.. i was thinking aprons with a hole placed just so
<Seville{s}> do you like to serve?
<Seville{s}> hmmmmmm is this trolling for service?
<Fyre{j}> no aprons ...... anyone frying bacon?
<rhiannon{KO}> yikes...
<rose{MD}> ouch
<priceless_whore> now..if i could find a good friend that loved to do housework and loved to laugh..with nice fluffy breasts...mmmmmmmmm
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> We just playing hide the salami
<rhiannon{KO}> LOL..good luck priceless_whore..
<priceless_whore> could find poly...bearable
<MysticMz> fluffy breasts?? That's one I haven't heard before
<Kilted_One> only the masochists are doing the bacon nekid
<priceless_whore> likes fluffy breasts
<BernieRoehl> Fluffy breasts? They sound scrumtious!
<Fyre{j}> you have to fluff a few to understand MysticMz
* dalian fluffs her breasts just to see
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> MysticMz: Filled with whipped cream instead of silicone
<priceless_whore> they are BernieRoehl!
* BernieRoehl smiles
<priceless_whore> nah Omy_oasis{Omy}..filled with the real stuff
<Seville{s}> ah if they are fluffy then they must have been whipped
<terri{MM}> lol
* BernieRoehl laughs!
<rhiannon{KO}> LOL
<Omy_oasis{Omy}> 1Laughing 140ut 1Loud
<MysticMz> So if I fluff my breasts they'll become perky again, like my pillows?
<shadoe{S}> well.yeah
<Seville{s}> I'll whip them and we will see Mystic
<shadoe{S}> with a little support
<shadoe{S}> they'll be stupendous
<Fyre{j}> You have perky pillows?
* BernieRoehl suspects we've drifted a bit off-topic
* Fyre{j} sends His pillows outside to see if they perk up
<Kilted_One> wonders if MysticMz's pillows have cross your heart bras??
<shadoe{S}> you have to fluff them .. and then rest them in the right container
<priceless_whore> anyway..i think it is only possible if the women find each other in friendship and trust
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<rhiannon{KO}> i agree priceless_whore..;)
<rose{MD}> i feel the same way pricelsess
* jewel`{F} thinks they would perk up better if Fyre{j} fluffed them
* abitbent can see someone reading the log, and flipping to the end of it to see what we finally agreed on and being completely confused.