November 16, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Too Fast or Too Slow -- Starting a BDSM Relationship". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
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<arhiannah> yup...very
<Justice> well, doesn't look like relationships take off too fast
<melody``> than suddenly there was silence
<hollywood61> very slowly
<hollywood61> hard to separate the love and need of the act etc..
<`abi> why do you think you need to separate them hollywood61?
<hollywood61> well, if you have a trust with someone and they tell you well, I am still looking for Ms. right ...
<hollywood61> and you have gone so far,.
<hollywood61> submission wise
<hollywood61> to have the feeling of losing that is tramatic
<hollywood61> speaking from experience
<_dove> Would that not depend on the type of relationship being built?
<hollywood61> yes, it would ...
<hollywood61> assuming that you want more....
<hollywood61> and maybe the other person is unsure of his own path
<melody``> maybe because so much of what gones on is of the mind... relationships seem to move quickly
<hollywood61> well put
<hollywood61> for me this is new and I have a hard time separating
<hollywood61> maybe I should spank him harder next time and it will help me...
<hollywood61> any ideas....out there..
<jewel`{F}> just from observation of late, i am noticing an extreme rush with some new people to have a collar or fit in
<private-beauty> i don't think that is as of late jewel`{F}
<arhiannah> i don't think that's anything "new" either...
<jewel`{F}> maybe not new, perhaps i am just noticing it more or there are more of them recently
<icemaiden> maybe not new but more prolific these days
<jewel`{F}> greater numbers
<private-beauty> i don't think i have ever even seen a bdsm relationship move slowly
<private-beauty> i think most jump in both feet without ever having tested the waters first
<melody``> pashion desire lust tend to never move slowly..
<shado> it does if one sets the pace that way
<arhiannah> that's the key...setting the pace..but so many don't
<icemaiden> newbies especially i think .. suddenly find a place that they fit and they want to try everything quickly... thinking of the consequences is that last thing on their mind
<shado> true and that's why so many get burned
<private-beauty> yes but wanting to try everything is not entering a relationship
<melody``> could it be partially due to the fact that D/s relationships can be multy level
<_dove> imo, the need / want for play overshadows the need to build a good foundation
<_dove> can overshadow
<`abi> or just that this is a very intense lifestyle ... intense things rarely travel slowly
<_dove> well said abi
<private-beauty> exactly dove and some are just in such a hurry they don't ever get to know who or what it is they are getting involved in
<hollywood61> you put a lot of effort in trusting someone, we have moved slowly..
* _dove doesn't have a slowly button
<private-beauty> but i find that the intensity abi speaks of often pushes everything forward
<`abi> sure you do dove's right beside the 'doesn't like pain button' ;)
<Kilted_One> abi, could that explain why "seasoned" ppl move a little slower due to them having experienced the "candy" beforehand??
<_dove> somebody stole that one abi
<`abi> I'm not sure that they do move more slowly KO
<_dove> KO, may i comment on that?
<private-beauty> i agree with that abi
<`abi> I think the quest for candy is replaced by the knowledge of how good the candy is
<Kilted_One> sure
<private-beauty> or where the next piece might come from
<_dove> i think the thought process is more developed in proportion to experience, but i don't think the speed is necessarily different.... unless the experience has been bad
<melody``> seasoned people know to slow it down .. because they have experienced the mistakes made by moving too fast
<shado> or there are some people that just don't rush into things at all
<shareena^> we never rushed into our relationship
<Kilted_One> is it possible to move too slow in a relationship??
<_dove> Yes i believe so
<Kilted_One> what would be the tell tale signs and how would one correct the pace??
<shareena^> initially that was my thought in our relationship. He moved much slower than I wanted
<hollywood61> turn up the volume and see what happens...
<melody``> we all need to take some chances.. but we need to take a breath and visualise the entire picture
<shado> i would say it depends entirely on th person...turning up the volume on me gets you a good view of my back as i walk away
<shareena^> How would one correct the pace? I am not sure. I let him decide the pace of the relationship
<Kilted_One> why??
<hollywood61> maybe he wants to be lead...
<jewel`{F}> one can always say "yellow" things are moving faster than i am ready for
<Kilted_One> if you dont communicate your feelings how can you get what you wont know if your partner is going slow for your needs and you are screaming to yourself that things are going too slow??
<_dove> i would become impatient, bored maybe, and begin to doubt as to whether we would ever get "there". Good communication would resolve that, imo
<Namons> why not talk things out in detail so you don't need guage pace and push and pull one another... find where you're both comfortable and work from there...
<shado> communication only works tho if both sides are listening
<_dove> agreed, shado. That would indicate a problem in itself
<private-beauty> but if you don't have communication pretty soon you won't have a relationship either
<shado> usually does dove
<shareena^> that's true private-beauty
<hollywood61> I am very verbal...
<private-beauty> i'm curious as to how fast everyone thinks is too fast?
<hollywood61> 5mths
<shado> Namons unfortunately very few i have seen talk things out as thoroughly as they should before jumping in with both feet (just my opinion)
<hollywood61> 2weeks?
<jewel`{F}> how about taking a collar before having met the person offline?
<shareena^> imo it varies with the individuals involved
<shado> fast is a relavent term based on the people involved
<hollywood61> no way
<Namons> I understand shado just putting forward how I think it should be done... saying it and doing it are different matters...
<MasterGuny> it all depends on the individuals and the relationship they form
<shareena^> or playing with someone the first time you meet them
<shado> very true Namon
<hollywood61> that is very dangerous
<shado> many do tho hollywood61
<Kilted_One> and what is being experienced too, it may change depending on the "experience"
<shareena^> how so Kilted_One
<shado> do years make "experience"?
<shado> many think so
<Kilted_One> the term was used in reference to the type of play or experiece not the gaining of it
<MasterGuny> depends on the individual shado
<Namons> I've been "absorbing" online play and experiences and I don't feel like I am experienced at all... so its all relative
<private-beauty> but experienceed people fall into the same traps
<Namons> for 10 years I have been
<shado> very true MG but how many ads have you seen that say ...been in the lifestyle for years.....but really mean have attended 2 munches a year for 5 years and nothing else
<Kilted_One> for example one may have to move slower with percussion experiences that with say....wax play
<shareena^> so would you say you have 10 years experience in the lifestyle Namons?
<Namons> no I have 10 years of observing and understanding what happens in the lifestyle but I have no true experience...
<MasterGuny> that is true you do have to qualify that with communication
<shado> communication tho only goes so have to be able to walk the walk as well as talk the talk
<hollywood61> window dressing if it is not in you
<_dove> Being able to talk the talk is deceiving, it can imply experience, which may not be there
<hollywood61> exactly
<shado> exactly dove
<_dove> That happened to me - that was a case of going too fast......
<shado> there are also those with 10 yrs actual experience that i wouldn't let touch my pet flea
<hollywood61> I have been switching all my sex life but wasn't in the scene
<hollywood61> but here I am not considered experienced
<shareena^> i hear you on that one shado
<hollywood61> the relationship is very different than the vanilla flavour
<shareena^> how do you feel it is different hollywood61
<hollywood61> more intense
<hollywood61> you push your limits
<Kilted_One> mmm I think maybe I would say that it is OK to say that you are 10 yrs experienced if you have been active in the scene for those years, regardless of what you have learned...I think it is up to the individuals to "verify" how much has been gained in that time by stepping through things with your partner
<shado> very true KO
<_dove> Define active please, KO?
<Kilted_One> coming out to munches, parties, rubbing shoulders with the "good old folks called the community"....
<private-beauty> not to mention in vanillaville 2 years is about right for dating before slipping the ring on ,how many bdsm relationship waited 2 years before there was a collar?
<_dove> Thank You KO *s*
<shado> maybe they should private-beauty
<Kilted_One> yw dove
<private-beauty> but how many have?
<arhiannah> i'd be hard pressed to name anyone i've known *personally* in the community that waited 2 months, let alone 2 years...
<Kilted_One> how many equate a collar to a wedding ring these days though private-beauty??
<shado> it's about as disposable as one from what i've seen
<arhiannah> velcro-collars are all too prevalent
<private-beauty> true enough KO but it should be more then paper
<Kilted_One> is that not up to the individuals to decide??
<Kilted_One> how many dont marry these days?/ simply set up house together
<private-beauty> true again but even those relationships seem to last longer than most bdsm relationships
<`abi> an exactly why should a collar be like a wedding ring ... what is it that makes them the same thing?
<abitbent> the idea of what collar means to d/s couples can be different, than the mainstream common meaning of a wedding ring.
* Kilted_One thinks back Dec....jan...april...was 5 months for rhiannon and I but that was what we wanted to do
* rhiannon{KO} smiles.
<private-beauty> it doesn't have to be the same thing abi but it should still mean something shouldn't it?
<arhiannah> i would say it's the committment involved...but then again...given what i've seen in the community, a wedding ring means as little to some as a collar does...i'd rather stay single than lower my standards
<`abi> I agree private-beauty ... but I'm not sure that it equates with a wedding ring
<hollywood61> it is a surrendering....a gift
<Kilted_One> strange we had this conversation the other day and after we took stock of the situation there were quite a lot of couples that have been together in the "years" catagory
<private-beauty> oh i agree with you there abi and kudos to you arhiannah
<_dove> If it means something to the couple, then it's right for the couple, doesn't have to be right for anyone else
<private-beauty> i've had that conversation before myself KO, sobering isn't it
<hollywood61> to push someone's limits you have to know them , it does take time
<shado> very true the same could apply to trying to push a relationship couldn't it
<hollywood61> of course
<_dove> i think the trick is finding the right pace for the individuals involved, not trying to globalize too fast or too slow
<hollywood61> test the waters constantly
<hollywood61> discuss volume controls
<shareena^> its not difficult to find the right pace. As mentioned before, communication is required
<MasterGuny> it also depends on the amount of time you can have together..are you spending every evening and weekend together..talking online constantly or a conversation or e-mail once or twice a week
<hollywood61> every other day and every second weekend seeing eachother
<hollywood61> it is hard
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<hollywood61> everyone should define their own pace
<shareena^> know what you want before you get into a relationship
<Kilted_One> the pace of your relationship is governed by the quality of your communication
<shado> as arhiannah stated...don't lower your standards
<_dove> well said KO, i heartily agree
<`abi> think horserace
<Kilted_One> nag nag nag??
<private-beauty> lol
<`abi> first out of the gate isn't necessarily first to the finish line ;)
<Kilted_One> ohh wait did I say that out loud??
<arhiannah> lol KO
<_dove> lol
<`abi> nae, nae, nae KO ;)
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<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<Kilted_One> pony play??