November 11 2001 EhBC Online Discussion

* Kilted_One starts the fanfare going
<BernieRoehl> And three... two... one....
<BernieRoehl> It's 9 pm, and time for our weekly online discussion
<BernieRoehl> I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion is "The Art of the Deal -- How to Negotiate a Scene with a New Partner". The moderator tonight is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
* #bdsm-kw is being logged
<ladywo1f> time i bailed....niters al
<Omy_> Hello all..okay..
<ladywo1f> all that is
<BernieRoehl> The idea behind this topic is that people often find themselves in the situation of meeting someone new, and deciding to play with them. The next step, of course, is to negotiate what will go on in the scene. Anyone have any thoughts as to the best way to start off the process?
<Omy_> I use a interest survey that I ask them to fill out.
<Omy_> Covers things they like and don't..things they have done..hard limits
* BernieRoehl nods
<pandora``> hard as it might be, especially from a subs perspective, total honesty is the best thing, and not to be afraid to say "No" to something or to set the ground rules up front
<Omy_> Good point pandora``..I agree...makes for a win-win situation
<oasis{Omy}> what happens for some subs.. is they fear rejection so they are not clear or totally honest with thier limits...
<carole{GP}> And no Dom/me likes to hear "I'll do whatever pleases You, Sir/Ma'am" (my answer to THAT is: "Great, go wash my dishes.")
<pandora``> quite right oasis{Omy}
<BernieRoehl> That's true, and yet some submissives will say "anything you want" without giving it much thought. What's the best way to steer them towards more useful answers?
<pandora``> to come up with something that they have never thought of Bernie, something that they have given no consideration to.
<Omy_> I ask for specifics...mention a couple things I know they don't like...see if they catch on
<carole{GP}> I tend to play up the shock value and give them some totally outrageous, nasty, evil thing I'd "like" to do to them, but then... I'm just mean that way. Then I say "Now that we've defined that you DO have limits, is there anything ELSE you'd like to try?"
<Grizzly_AL> i would say ask a lot of questions and find out more of what they want
* Omy_ looks at carole{GP} and grins
* oasis{Omy} makes note keep those two apart more often
* Omy_ looks at his girl and thinks of a few nasty ideas
* BernieRoehl chuckles
<pandora``> the one thing that happened to me, and that made me really think, was having photographs taken, who would ever think to put photo's down as a limit, but it made me realise that i had to cover all bases
<Omy_> Evening DarkAngel^{rt}
<carole{GP}> yes pandora, you have to think about things like "who gets the negatives, and are they going to get posted to the internet?" (never EVER irritate the person with the negatives!)
* Omy_ looks at carole{GP} and laughs... So you never irriate George huh?
<pandora``> but i would never have thought of using pictures as a hard limit, it made me realise just how thorough i have to be in negotiating a scene
* DarkAngel^{rt} and his slave sit back to listen
<oasis{Omy}> this one has a few "odd" hard limits.. that arnt generally thought of... responsibility is mine to make them clear and to e aware enough of myself prior to a meet
* carole{GP} gave up on being shy after she saw her entire XXX-rated collection of pics on the BBW website. sigh.
<Kilted_One> Bernie, can you define what is meant by "A new partner" to ensure that we do not give the wrong impression to persons in channel that are new to the scene??
* Omy_ looks at carole{GP} and roars as he winks at his girl you shy? <snickers>
<BernieRoehl> Good idea, KO. In this case, a "new partner" is just one that you've never played with before, not necessarily someone who's brand-new to the scene.
<BernieRoehl> For example, I played with some people at Black Rose who I met that weekend, but they were far from being newbies.
* kierana smiles...thank You for clarifying that Bernie
<carole{GP}> I think the hardest part of negotiating a scene with someone new is the first step: asking them!
<Omy_> Welcome ms
<BernieRoehl> Good point, carole
<Guest07864> hi everyone
<Omy_> Well carole{GP}..I have a line I use
<BernieRoehl> So, what's the best way to let someone know that you're interested in playing with them?
<Kilted_One> I guess the venue has a lot to do with it as well??. BR does allow a lot more than most and is a "public" event (well sorta)....totally different from meeting someone for the first time who you have been chatting with over the net.
<Trufriend> maybe by commenting to them aobut a scene you've seen them in previously?
<oasis{Omy}> thats a hard one.. shyness often holds people back...
<Trufriend> start a conversation...
<Omy_> I think so DarkAngel^{rt}...some peoples definition of casual is different
<DarkAngel^{rt}> good idea Trufriend
<pandora``> i think that casual play in a public venue is a lot easier to handle than in private
<Omy_> I think that if the two people get to know each other a bit first the scene will be much better for both parties
<Trufriend> in order to meet somebody worth playing with or developing a relationship of any kind, you have to *want* it first, then step out of your comfort box and act on it
<oasis{Omy}> i think its best to know or have seen the other in play so you have a good idea how they conduct themselves
* Omy_ looks at his girl... and in your case being horny helps ;>
<BernieRoehl> So do you seek out playpartners based on things you've seen them do previously?
<kierana> and wouldn't trust in the new partner make a difference as well...?
* oasis{Omy} crawls under her Masters chair blush
<carole{GP}> well, there IS this certain Dom who does INTERESTING things with a singletail.... hmm... "yes" Bernie.
<Trufriend> safe, sane, consensual......*never* play with anyone for the first time, privately....
<DarkAngel^{rt}> rosethorns adds , "it all comes down to communication"
<oasis{Omy}> and reputation i belive its agood to ask about...
<Omy_> I wouldn't Bernie...but there has to be some kind of chemistry for me
<DarkAngel^{rt}> with emfasis on blunt and truth ,,, as apposed to subtlety
<BernieRoehl> Chemistry is something that people often mention... we all know it when we feel it, but can we describe it? What does "chemistry" really mean?
* DarkAngel^{rt} thinks rt communicated that well since she is gagged ,,,,, - DA takes back the keyboard
<^sky_> scent and animal attraction
<oasis{Omy}> an attraction elemet of desire comfort...curiosity
<Omy_> For me its a interest in wanting to get to know the other person...someone that gets my imagination going
<carole{GP}> chemistry for me, is usually sexual in nature. but what really attracts me to someone as a potential play partner is the way they THINK, which means I have to have TALKED to them a lot.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> chemestry is something rt failed in highschool
<Omy_> There are people I have met that I have no interest in sceneing with
<DarkAngel^{rt}> chemestry is sex ,, sexual attraction ,, that first interaction ,, further interaction requires more input
* BernieRoehl nods
<Omy_> I think BernieRoehl that if there is some chemistry..of whatever sparks desire...and from that you can start a negotiation
<Trufriend> chemistry *is* sexual...anytime...the arousal of our inner senses..endorphins
<BernieRoehl> So once the chemistry is there (and assuming it's mutual), what's the best way to communicate the interest?
<carole{GP}> there are people that I LOVE because of the way they think, but I'd never let them use a toy on me... nor would I ever use one on them...
<pandora``> for me the chemistry is more on the intellectual level first, i need to be able to communicate well
<Kilted_One> so the sexual connection has to happen first??
<Trufriend> but something must attract you to a person before sparking a conversation pandora
<Omy_> I like the direct approach BernieRoehl.
<carole{GP}> well, the one I used on George was "want to tie me up?"
<Omy_> I think that's a personal choice KO...for me no...I don't have to be sexually 'charged' to play with someone
<oasis{Omy}> i personally i like it when you say " BITE ME" than run like heck carole{GP} :)
<Omy_> sure helps
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol ,, I like that carole{GP}
<pandora``> true, but many times the looks have started the conversation, but then i find that there is no "common ground"
<carole{GP}> yes, that approach seems to work too oasis... and definitely gets a MUCH more "instant" reaction.... <evil grin>
* rhiannon{KO} would ask around first, find out if the person is "safe" it may take a couple of meetings, or parties before i would show the inerest in want to "play".
<DarkAngel^{rt}> that must have been a good "ice breaker" ,, always a good way to get past the nervous "opening hello"
<Omy_> Well actually carole{GP}...oasis went one further then "want to tie me up" when we met
<carole{GP}> well, I sort of broke the ice with George by MARRYING him first... THEN, about a year later, I asked him to tie me up.... heh
<Trufriend> so would there be certain things you would start a conversation with to find out if they are intellectually compatable?
<Omy_> I ask them what turns them on about the lifestyle
<^sky_> pheromones
<BernieRoehl> Heck of an ice-breaker, carole! :-)
<oasis{Omy}> needs one thing.... trust... it take me a long time to go there
<Trufriend> in all honesty, I cannot believe there would be no physical attraction first
* rhiannon{KO} agrees with oasis{Omy}.
<kierana> same here oasis...i have trust issues too...
<Omy_> Trust is very important
* Dragonchaser-fs blinks at oasis's statment
<BernieRoehl> So there's the direct approach, the "let's get married first" approach (*smile*)... any others?
<carole{GP}> how about "GOD you have a hot ass in those leather pants... do you want me to polish them for you or swat you through them?"
<Omy_> Well theres the "would you step into my mind so I can unleash your fears and desires?
* kierana hmmmm's
* BernieRoehl smiles at the growing collection of excellent opening lines
* Trufriend prefers the subtle approach to the blunt or crude approach
* BernieRoehl nods
<Trufriend> a compliment is worth so much more
<carole{GP}> subtle is too easily misinterpreted, in my experience...
<BernieRoehl> Subtlety is good. Any specific suggestions, Tru?
<oasis{Omy}> has a quirk.. wilna ask... i watch waite... than if asked I warn the Dom/Domme.. I bite :).. if i feel comfirtable.. and they dont run.. we play :)
* DarkAngel^{rt} asked rt is she spit or swallowed
<Lixil> lol DarkAngel^{rt}
* Omy_ laughs
<Trufriend> today's world has forgotten the simple pleasures of a glance, a smile or a compliment
<BernieRoehl> Ah yes, the subtle approach :-)
<DarkAngel^{rt}> she replied ,,,, she gargles ,,,,, the slut
<Omy_> Its funny in Kanata, there is a no spitting bylaw
* Kilted_One thoughs are that "partners" should get to know each other first before they scene, but then I have only been "in it' for the long haul
<Trufriend> too many things are taken for granted and become far too complicated
<DarkAngel^{rt}> well we were friends first before we played ,,,, the banter and click was well known
<Omy_> Theres a good trat DA....a sence of humor is important
<Kilted_One> my point exactly DA, you got to know each other first and then the play came later
<Omy_> If your going to be at it for the "long haul" then you need to be able to laugh
<DarkAngel^{rt}> true Kilted_One ,, that is the only way for me ,,, although one never should say never
* BernieRoehl agrees with Omy_ on that
* Dragonchaser-fs likes the three D aproach.... dinner ...dancing ...dungon
<oasis{Omy}> belives friends in the beging... its a good solid base :)
* suzq{CK} nods
* BernieRoehl chuckles
<Omy_> Well you know how I feel about beggind my girl ;>
<Kilted_One> isnt that what one has to do to get through life in general Omy_??
* oasis{Omy} husshes.. before she finds space for her other foot in her mouth
<Trufriend> also important, is listening to one another...not just hearing them....not ignoring their wishes or fears just to suit themselves
<Omy_> True KO...and myself included...we get to serious at times
<BernieRoehl> Okay, so... initial chemistry, subtle or direct expressions of interest... the next step is to actually sit down and negotiate. Beyond the "whatever pleases you"'s, what's the best way to go?
<carole{GP}> "I like A, B and C, but will not do D... what do YOU like?"
<Trufriend> start small...don't jump into a major intense scene right away
<Dragonchaser-fs> Ask about likes dislikes expectation.. limits
<oasis{Omy}> but we dont always have the ability to deveolp relationships to anydepths.. so how does one branch out... ask...
<Omy_> I have found Bernie that a discussion on common interests is very rewarding
<DarkAngel^{rt}> although I have played casually a few times now .. with people I have known
<BernieRoehl> Certainly the process is easier with someone you know well. What about when it's someone you know only slightly?
<carole{GP}> yes, we seem to be assuming that we're negotiating to play for the first time with someone we intend to STAY with... what if, for instance, we're negotiating to play with a more experienced person for the learning experience?
<Omy_> To play you need to be comfortable with whom your playing with
<Omy_> I'd ask them what they wanted to learn
<DarkAngel^{rt}> has anyone had a Bad experiance playing ,, and thinks "not enough negociating " was a big factor
<oasis{Omy}> is it easier for Dom/Domme ... or sub to intiate play
<Omy_> I've had a bad experience...but it was really a matter of the persons headspace
<Omy_> To me its easier for the sub to iniate
<carole{GP}> I would GUESS it would be easier for the Dom/me... I have a hard time asking George for play NOW when I'm in subbie mode
<oasis{Omy}> has had very bd experience... belives people should know well the person they choose to play with...
<oasis{Omy}> wont ask.. too shy lol
* carole{GP} has had bad experiences... and usually there was NO negotiation involved.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> their headspace Omy_ ? pls elaborate , I dont understand
<Omy_> The persons headspace wasn't there...they had other things on their mind...were going through motions..and not activatly partcipating
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ok ,, I see
<Omy_> Was a lousy scene...but it did turn out to be a great discussion...found out ways on how to take them from one mode to the other
<DarkAngel^{rt}> so aquard play ,, led to further discusion and play
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I am not sure a first play can be anything but slightly aquard ,,, play , discusion is something that grows
<DarkAngel^{rt}> but it might scratch that ich ,,, feed the hunger ,, serve the need of the moment
<Omy_> It actually didn't scratch the itch...until later on....then had a great scene.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> awkward I mean ,,lol
<kierana> haven't played yet...for me it would have to be a pretty powerful need to override my very innate sense of shyness
<BernieRoehl> So, what are the basic things that you need to cover when negotiating?
<carole{GP}> health concerns
<DarkAngel^{rt}> it didnt scratch your itch Omy_ ,,, didnt mean , if one plays with anouther ,, for the first time , and doesnt again ,, that that other didnt have their needs met ,, you are just unsure ,, and didnt get yours met
<Trufriend> limits for sure
<DarkAngel^{rt}> health is a very good point carole{GP}
<Omy_> No..didn't scratch the itch for either of us DA
<DarkAngel^{rt}> expected reactions ,, like dropping
<oasis{Omy}> my shyness is embeeded deep within... its welll hidden from public view... belive me...rite time rite person... its easier to take those first steps
<Omy_> Yes or passign out after climaxing...damn near had a heart attack the first time that happened to me
<carole{GP}> or passing out for no apparent reason...... heheh
<`TimberWolf> OMY you pass out after you climax????????
<`TimberWolf> LOL
<Omy_> Laughing 0ut Loud
<`TimberWolf> :)
<Omy_> No `TimberWolf the girl did
<`TimberWolf> LOL
<`TimberWolf> I knew dude...was just stiring the pot
<Omy_> I have been known to role over and fall asleep though ;>
<`TimberWolf> me too:)
<`TimberWolf> sometimes even before they climax
<oasis{Omy}> no on me you havent lol
<DarkAngel^{rt}> dang Omy_ ,, take her off the cross first
<carole{GP}> I think I'd also negotiate nudity/no nudity/partial nudity, and what sort of sexual contact could happen... :)
<Omy_> Laughing 0ut Loud DA
<`TimberWolf> errr wake me up when your done...and try to muffle that vibrator with a pillow would ya
<Omy_> Good points carole{GP}
<BernieRoehl> That's an important one, carole. I did a scene with someone last weekend, and we hadn't negotiated sexual contact -- so I held off. After the scene, she wondered why! Still, better to err on the side of caution.
<carole{GP}> absolutely.... because if you go somewhere "unwanted," when the submissive is helpless...... it can turn ugly really fast.
<Omy_> left her hot and fustrated huh BernieRoehl ;>
<BernieRoehl> Yup, Omy. Kind of satisfying, in its own way. :-)
* Omy_ winks knowingly at BernieRoehl
<BernieRoehl> So... health, nudity, sexual contact, responses to play, limits... anything else?
<`TimberWolf> kids.....pension plans???
<`TimberWolf> rrsp contributions
<BernieRoehl> (just got ICQ from DA... he got disconnected, can't reconnect, but he said to say goodnight to everyone)
<carole{GP}> wedding dates?
<`TimberWolf> division of assets
<carole{GP}> prenup agreements!
* BernieRoehl laughs
<Omy_> Desires BernieRoehl...if there is somethign they would really like to try
<BernieRoehl> Well, the negotiations just go on and on, don't they :-)
<Omy_> If they don't leave happy...not likely they'll come back
<BernieRoehl> ...and that takes us to 10 pm
<Omy_> welcome back KO
<BernieRoehl> wb, KO
<`TimberWolf> wb KO
<BernieRoehl> So, we'll wrap up to official part of the discussion here.
<Kilted_One> ty all
<BernieRoehl> Please feel free to continue chatting informally.
* Omy_ chuckles Looks like KO got ko'ed by peer :)
<BernieRoehl> Thank you to everyone who participated!