November 7, 2004 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Swinging and BDSM". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<Kilted_One> I actually saw a slide rule the other day...
<motoki> nm Sir
<Kilted_One> nm??
<paperclip> lol
<dana^^> still refrains from bursting
<motoki> nevermind
<motoki> ;
<Kirspin> Well I am not convinced that Swingers will ever aqppreciate BDSM
<the_wild_rose> can someoen define swinging
<motoki> :)
<the_wild_rose> in terms of this lifestyle
<Kilted_One> how so Kirspin??
<the_wild_rose> <--confused easy
<MsMaple> and the difference b2ween soft and hard swinging also wild_rose
<the_wild_rose> yes please
<Kirspin> I went to Steeletto last week with three people who said they were swingers and they wanted to see what a fet night was like
<Kirspin> I am not sure if they liked the evening or not
<MsMaple> IMO swinging in the nilla is when 2 couples get together and exchange partners ... in the 70s or perhaps 60s it was wild with 'key parties'
<Kilted_One> do you think that there are no swingers in the BDSM lifestyle right now then Kirspin??
<the_wild_rose> i like comenting here in these discussions its just i am not sure i understand well so i will listen
<Kirspin> Ithink there are lots of them, but its hard to know really if they like BDSM est
<dana^^> so swingers would be folks who are into the sensuality without really understanding the mindset?
<the_wild_rose> swingers mean...switching partners and non monogamous then?
<Kilted_One> is there various levels of swinging??
<MsMaple> I speak freely so I will comment that I believe it is the physical that swingers crave
<Kirspin> I know from the Party I attended in Scotland, most of the couples there were also Swingers
<candie[G]> there are as many varieties of swinging as there are D/s relationships.. every couple makes their own rules
<MsMaple> Oh yes KO , ie a soft is when you remain with your own partner but engage in the same room as another
<the_wild_rose> ok but in terms of the lifestyle is swinging bad if it is scening
<the_wild_rose> you get a varied experience with new partners
<the_wild_rose> and i would think grow
<the_wild_rose> with each new experience
<paperclip> i think many get swinging and BDSM mixed up...think they are the same thing. my experience has been it's mostly vanillas who think that...i have many vanilla friends who are convinced that when i go to SW or Steeletto we're having a big orgy.
* MsMaple wonders if "lending" a slave would be a type of swinging
<the_wild_rose> would it be the equivalentof polyamory?
<dana^^> i wouldnt call a bottom a swinger though...
<the_wild_rose> i think so MsMaple
<Kilted_One> is swinging bad in any sense
<the_wild_rose> why not?'
<Kirspin> I think its fine for those who take part in it,
<paperclip> only if one of the people involved isn't into it Kilted_One
<candie[G]> swinging isn't poly.. poly implies a relationship rather than just a tryst
<the_wild_rose> ok thanks candie[G]
<the_wild_rose> i guess i need a bdsm definition
<cariye> I think swinging is a couple having sex with others but in BDSM its different
<dana^^> thats a good question Kilted_One Sir... i was going to say that it seems to be about instant gradification... but to a certain extend a Top/bottom relationship could be viewed as such also... (not by me though... grins)
<MsMaple> Indeed cariye, I would agree
<the_wild_rose> so in bdsm could playing with different doms then be considered bdsm swinging?
<the_wild_rose> or the reverse
<the_wild_rose> is it sex only?
<Kilted_One> is it swinging if there are only a threesome or is it poly???
<candie[G]> its funny.. I don't quite understand why, but when I was in the swinging lifestyle (I no long participate) swingers thought bdsm was SO BAD.. sick even.. and some in this lifestyle feel the same about swingers
<the_wild_rose> swinging then is about sexual gratification?
<Kirspin> I sense that a lot of people involved in Swinging would like to get more involved in Ds lifestle if even just OTK spanking etc
<candie[G]> I had a hard time being accepted here because those that know about my swinging lifestyle thought I was only here to find a sexual partner.. not the bdsm
<dana^^> depends on the mindset
<Kirspin> there lefestyle
<candie[G]> and when the swingers found out I was into the D/s.. they snubbed me for being "one of them" the "wierd people"
<the_wild_rose> i find that odd...if one lifestyle feels alienated why alienate another
<cariye> candie arethe "swingers" usually couples rather thansingles?
<Kirspin> Some Swingers would fine our lifestyle harsh, one told me she thought I was ignorant of there lifestyle
<candie[G]> yes cariye.. usually
<Kirspin> Some singles take part in swinging, a lot of couples are always looking for a Third and then a female
* MsMaple feels that swinging and BDSM are different in many ways but both outside the _normal_ patterns
<the_wild_rose> so is the topic swinging in the bdsm lifestyle or bdsm vs the swinging lifestyle
<cariye> so a sub or Dominant playing with different ppl is not necessarily bdsm swinging ....I see a d/s couple more as using other partners as a reward/punishment/learning tool rather thanselffulfilment
<cariye> maybe I am stuck ona couple rather than seeing the whole pic
<Kirspin> In swinging, the Sex act is King, wheras in Play parties other than private ones, then no Sex is allowed
<cariye> sorry my space bar sticks
<krista-F> i'm really confused here
<dana^^> i understand what youre saying cariye... in D/s the couple could be poly...or learning a new skill with a more experienced person...
<the_wild_rose> me too krista-F
<MsMaple> No I would again agree with you cariye that it is using others when a sub is involved. I don't think that there is a term called 'bdsm swinging'
<paperclip> well i guess it depends on where you come from when it comes to bdsm. for me a lot of it is foreplay, the physical aspects of to have to be with someone else would be a form of swinging.
<dana^^> its really not about different sexual partners...
<MsMaple> mileage may vary
<dana^^> you mean the mindset paperclip?
<Kilted_One> topic is Swinging AND BDSM
<dana^^> <=== easily confused...
<paperclip> am i off topic?
<paperclip> lol
<the_wild_rose> is still confused
<the_wild_rose> but
<the_wild_rose> that is easily done
<krista-F> i have never been owned....and have played with many different people.make and female and both at once...but my interest in such play is pain oriented.and is not sexually driven...and i have no sexual contact with casual would i be considered a swinger even so?
<dana^^> not by me krista...
<Kirspin> Doont think so!
<wanderingfire> no krista, i always thought swinging implied couples
<the_wild_rose> here is my confuseion if you are owned say...and the master says i ok your relationships and partners...that swinging?
<candie[G]> I have heard people say that there is no swinging in bdsm.. yet you see people swap partners a lot and call it "lending" what would define the difference?
<the_wild_rose> wondering the same candie[G]
<wanderingfire> i would call that swinging, for that situation
<krista-F> ok...i never considered it such.....but i have played with total strangers at events..for pain that is my area of interest and expertise
<MsMaple> <shakes Her head>
<Kilted_One> by my definition of swinging it is when a minimum of two couples swap parnters for the sake of in BDSM if you are swapping parners for BDSM experiences I dont think it makes you a makes you a happy camper maybe!!
<paperclip> lol
* candie[G] agrees with KO
<the_wild_rose> heheh
<Kirspin> Right on KO!!
<krista-F> works for me KO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<the_wild_rose> so the defining factor is sex then
<paperclip> ok we all agree, discussion over LOL
<wanderingfire> but is sex ever just sex? or is it an experience? in that case, bdsm is part of the sex experience
<the_wild_rose> lol pc
<paperclip> ;)
<the_wild_rose> yes wanderingfire
* MsMaple ^5 to KO
<the_wild_rose> and is it a convenient way to say i am a happy camper
<Kilted_One> Hi 5's MsMaple back
<the_wild_rose> because vanilla swingers would argue that
<candie[G]> not all vanilla swingers have sex tho
<the_wild_rose> right
<dana^^> let me see if i can explain this... i have had the opportunity to bottom. like you krista it was more of pain sessions... which to me is sensuality but not sexual (different to when i am in a relationship with a Dom)... but it also allowed me to melt into a very submissive role to give control over even in a limited relationship... to me thats not swinging
<MsMaple> Are we using Clinton's rules here candie?
<wanderingfire> which is what i'm getting at meaning 'experience' and not just 'sex'
<Kilted_One> I would say that our lifestyle is all about sexual energy and the sharing of it wanderingfire, but not necessarily about the act of having sexual intercourse
<candie[G]> for some, just the flirting and petting is enough. They get turned on and warmed up and go home with their own partner
<the_wild_rose> but why cant that be considered swinging
<wanderingfire> exactly KO, that's what i mean
<MsMaple> agree
<the_wild_rose> yep
<Kilted_One> nods to wanderingfire...
<MsMaple> Oh apologies, I was unaware of this
<Kilted_One> unaware of what MsMaple??
<MsMaple> What candie mentioned KO, that they just pet and then go home, I thought it was just for sex personally
<candie[G]> there are as many variations in Swinging as in bdsm relationships.. the couples make their own rules
<Kilted_One> ahhh K, as I asked earlier if there was variouls levels of swinging and I guess that answers it to some degree
<MsMaple> but of course
<candie[G]> some like to soft swing.. no intercouse with anyone else but their own partner.. others swap but stay in the same room.. others swap and go their separate ways.. etc.
<krista-F> yes dana....that is how it is for me in that circumstance.....i am fortunate to have a primary service relationship that has been years long as well
<krista-F> so i get a lot of different aspects of need met
<dana^^> smiles... so understands that krista... but i dont see that as being part of a swinger lifestyle...
<the_wild_rose> swinging isnt a bad thing
<krista-F> is somthing i get very little of....:(
<the_wild_rose> and all i see is people making reference to it being bad
<krista-F> no.....i don't think it is either wild rose
<dana^^> lol... so knows that one too... grins and blushes
<krista-F> lol
<the_wild_rose> but if you get turned on its sex to me
<the_wild_rose> so
<paperclip> sex or sexual rose? i think there's a dif.
<the_wild_rose> if you have multiple partners in bdsm and get truned on and cum that is swinging to me'
<the_wild_rose> sexual
<krista-F> i dont take the words bad and good a way of talking about things rose
<paperclip> k
<the_wild_rose> we defined sex doesnt always happen witihswinging
<krista-F> for me it is right and wrong...and only in if it is rignt or wrong for one else
<the_wild_rose> it doesnt always happen in bdsm'
<candie[G]> to some there IS swinging in bdsm, to others not.. it all depends on the individuals' definitions of each.
<the_wild_rose> but if you get sexual by cuming or being turned on it is swinging
<dana^^> sorry... im confused again... what doesnt always happen in bdsm?
<the_wild_rose> sex
<krista-F> hell then i am swingin when i look at brad pitt...who knew???
<the_wild_rose> lol
<dana^^> lolol
<the_wild_rose> no
<the_wild_rose> is he spankig u?
<the_wild_rose> no
<wanderingfire> swinging implies you spend real time/place with the person
<krista-F> he doesn't have to.....
<candie[G]> I guess we're all at it with brad pitt *laughs*
* cariye thinks she will have to throw out her movies then
<the_wild_rose> yep which we do
<the_wild_rose> at parties
<Kirspin> In BDSM, the Dom or Domme wants to put the sub into sub space, its not a sexual thing, I dont think
<the_wild_rose> so how is that different
<the_wild_rose> sure it is
<krista-F> rose
<the_wild_rose> if she/he cums
<dana^^> for sexual pleasure wanderingfire... its not always about sex in bdsm...
<krista-F> at first husband did not you could do things.that were sexual.but they were not "sexual"
<the_wild_rose> but in isnt always sex
<candie[G]> subspace to some is very sexual.. to others its not
<the_wild_rose> it was said there is sometimes petting and go
<dana^^> i think it is the_wild_rose
<krista-F> until one nite...he was at a party with me......remember .he is totally vanilla and very conservative
<wanderingfire> exactly, it all depends what your own personal subspace is
<candie[G]> there will be as many different definitions as there are individuals
<dana^^> isnt that called foreplay and part of sexuality?
<Kirspin> Sub space is a pleasure event for both Top and bottom
<the_wild_rose> so technically swinging exists if it isnt a poly and u have multiple partners
<krista-F> he got up the guts to do some wax play with a dear friend of mine..and at one time he leaned over to suck on her get it to stand up as he wanted to put wax on the very tip
<the_wild_rose> if i am wrong i apologize
<Kilted_One> mmm my own reason for scening is not to put the submissive into subspace (that is too much work to look after them) it is to share sexual energy to take control that is offered to adminster pain to someone who wants to recieve it
<krista-F> now.....he got to see....that he did a sexual all accounts.....but the reason for it was to provoke a body reaction..not to arouse
<krista-F> then he finally got it!!!!!!!
<the_wild_rose> but it is still swapping partners in a sexual way
<the_wild_rose> some would argue its swinging
<the_wild_rose> some wont
<Kirspin> Its hard work to be a Dom or Top in any scene
<dana^^> <== is glad im submissive... grins
<the_wild_rose> heheh
<Kilted_One> I dont see it has hard work I actually get off on it big time it is very pleasurable
* motoki finds it hard work - and often feels rather hoarse afterwards
<dana^^> again its about how you define this... for myself when i bottom its more about the mindset... its not sex on command but a negoiated scene within limits... far different than one where im involved in a long term relationship...
<the_wild_rose> yea i guess a proper definition of what swinging is neds to be had
<the_wild_rose> kinda vague topic
<candie[G]> there is no proper definition.. it varies by couple.. just like bdsm doesn
<candie[G]> err does
<the_wild_rose> not what i mean
<Kilted_One> ohh I wonder why your throat is sore motoki..maybe something to do with the ancient mating calls that you seem to erupt with in the middle of a scene <smiles>
<dana^^> nods and nods... i see it as purely exploring sex...
<the_wild_rose> i mean two lifestyles are different
<the_wild_rose> so that be like saying to swingers lets discuss swinging and bdsm
<the_wild_rose> they may spank ea other
<`abi> well, there is some cross-pollination rose
<wanderingfire> here is a definition:
<the_wild_rose> but not consider it
<the_wild_rose> as bdsm
<Kirspin> I think its good for Swingers to attend our events to see what we do, and not to be scared off like Candie mentioned in the forst part of this discussion
<the_wild_rose> and like here i am sure many have a few partners and do not consider it swinging
<Kilted_One> I think what the_wild_rose was saying that just like BDSM'ers, Swingers have as much fun delineating their "kink" as we do with BDSM and Im sure there as as many definitions to BDSM out there as there are swinging
<Kirspin> For a good site to find out about Swing ing and also BDSm, visit the University of Washington state site, its got lots of info on it
<dana^^> but just watching a bdsm scene may not explain the why's of it... the deep mindset a Dom/submissive may have...
* MsMaple applauds KO
<dana^^> thank You Kilted_One Sir...
<Kilted_One> yw dana^^ and thanks MsMaple
<Kilted_One> do you think there is as many swingers into BDSM as there is SM'ers into swinging
<dana^^> believes anything that makes you and your partner happy should be explored
<Kirspin> Great question!
<wanderingfire> well that depends on what is considered swinging within bdsm, and we couldn't define that
<the_wild_rose> ya that is what i meant Kilted_One
<MsMaple> I think that perhaps swingers could try BDSM much easier than vice versa
<the_wild_rose> agreed wandering
<Kilted_One> actually I wasnt referring to swinging within BDSM it was swingers performing BDSM or participating in BDSM
<dana^^> i dont really know too much about the swinger lifestyle... but i do think with bdsm toys being more uh... out there... maybe more explore bdsm than we know?
<Kilted_One> and BDSM'ers swinging
<Kirspin> From what I have heard from people who are Swingers big time, not many of them are into BDSM as we know it
<candie[G]> I know a few couples that do both, but they keep the bdsm aspect away from the swinging crowd because of the negative attuded toward it
<candie[G]> err attitude
<candie[G]> I can't type tonight
<Kilted_One> I would use the definition that if you think you are a swinger into bdsm you are a swinger in bdsm and visa versa...
<Kirspin> Thats my problem too
<princess{Jaysker}> I think there's a perception from outside that any community involved in anything outside the sexual mainstream must have a lot of crossover with the other groups outside it...
<Kirspin> Typing isnt one of my best suits!
<princess{Jaysker}> that, for instance, as lesbians, we must necessarily also be kinky.
<`abi> are princess{Jaysker} ;)
<krista-F> i love kinky!!
<princess{Jaysker}> yes, but it's not causative.
<dana^^> lol krista
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
* `abi chuckles...I know
<Kirspin> If you know Swingers, invite them to Munches and parties
<`abi> why Kirspin?
<candie[G]> why?
<Kirspin> why not, we are an open and considerate society
<dana^^> asks a third why
<candie[G]> I wouldn't dare when I was involved.. they thought I was insane
<the_wild_rose> lol
<the_wild_rose> i wanna go to a swinger party and yell spank that slut
<Kirspin> I have two couples at my Orangeville Munch who are into swinging, they have asked about BDSM events etc
<the_wild_rose> see what happens
<dana^^> perhaps send an invite if they are interested in learning more about D/s bdsm?
<paperclip> i would think if ppl are bold enough to get into swinging...they'd have been bold enough to get into bdsm and vice versa LOL so my thought is they just aren't into it.
<the_wild_rose> kidding
<the_wild_rose> yea paperclip
<paperclip> i thought it was funny rose ;)
<the_wild_rose> because you are in my head miss
<paperclip> no, don't associate your brain and thinking with mine LOL
<the_wild_rose> and would be right there beside me egging me on
<the_wild_rose> rofl
<paperclip> :)
<the_wild_rose> =)
<Kirspin> Nigth all, its snowing here in Belwood
<Kilted_One> I would think if a swinger want to know or has any interest in BDSM they will come and ask us and not the other way around...that is a receipe for pissin a lot of swingers that dont want to know about BDSM I would think??
<Kilted_One> and you are welcome to keep it all up there too Kirspin <winks>
<the_wild_rose> yea was a joke Kilted_One
<paperclip> agreed Kilted_One
<Kirspin> Tks KO for doing a great job running this event tonight
<paperclip> not about the snow though
<the_wild_rose> hehe
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informally. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<`abi> I went to a couple of swingers events ... I absolutely hated it ... I have no reason to believe that they would enjoy a BDSM event any more than I enjoyed their events