October 26, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "BDSM: What's Love Got to Do With It?". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<_dove> hello private-beauty
<DarkAngel^> lol ,,, _dove ,,, that is the way ALL newbies look at DAL ,,, DAL isnt your "ordinary" first event
<private-beauty> blusses why no Sir *heh heh* is that your hand Sir?
<_dove> oh and at the picnic DA *s*
<DarkAngel^> ok _dove ,, honestly I still dont recognize the nick ,,, I am famous for that
* DarkAngel^ has a tendancy to look funny at people ,,, and say "you look framiliar ,, have we met?" ... the kids are starting to get annoyed
<_dove> lol
<DarkAngel^> what is tonights topic ?
<private-beauty> So.......what does love have to do with it?
* DarkAngel^ looks up ,,, ahhhh
<DarkAngel^> well BDSM ,,, I love it ,,
<DarkAngel^> that count ?
<private-beauty> i think we all do
<private-beauty> disscussion over then?
* DarkAngel^ <--- likes strong feelings as part of a deep D/s relationship,,, does anyone not like that ?
<DarkAngel^> for example ,, is casual play ,,, strong feelings might cause complications
<jewel`{F}> myself i have found that as my feelings for Master deepened so did my desire to please Him, to do things that i wouldn't do for others
<private-beauty> seriously thoguh .....does love have any place in a bdsm relationship?
<DarkAngel^> is = in
<candie[G]> I wouldn't be able to get involved in that sort of relationship without deep feelings
<DarkAngel^> hard for me candie[G] ,,,, probably why I never really was able to casually play (much)
* candie[G] nods.. exactly.. I don't play casually, not serious play anyway
<DarkAngel^> a few casual dates (with ABSOLUTELY no expectations) ,, but I cant really get DEEP for that type of play,,, just eases the hunger
<DarkAngel^> lol ,,, although there is also the "birthday spankings" ,,, those are fun
* candie[G] nods.. I know those all too well
<private-beauty> for myself love only deepened my submission to Master
<jewel`{F}> i agree private-beauty
* DarkAngel^ seeks that deep love comitment again ,,,, but not actively ,,, (and might have found it already - Demonic grin)
<private-beauty> i found also that things that never would have bothered me in a causual relationship would kill me now
<DarkAngel^> actually I personally find a deeper connection to be freeing in play ,, as well as opening up possibilities for a deeper level (for me that is) of D/s)
* DarkAngel^ is proud to say ......
* DarkAngel^ is a Single Dom Male,,39, light brown hair, one green eye, one brown eyed Mutant, from London-Woodstock area of Ontario Canada. Host of DAL, Host of London Munch, and Co-Host of Woodstock Munch; corrupter of the Innocent, recently claimed a single submissive named tara.
<private-beauty> punishment in a causual setting can be exciting when love is involved punishment can be devastating
<DarkAngel^> can punishment occur in a casual setting ?
<DarkAngel^> although I do agree ,,, there can be a relationship without love ,,, involving D/s and BDSM ,,
<DarkAngel^> I see casual as a seperate issue regarding a D/s relationship without love
<private-beauty> depends how causual but, yes
<DarkAngel^> such as private-beauty ?
<DarkAngel^> anyone else have any ideas ?
<private-beauty> if causual refers to there is no long term committment
<DarkAngel^> sounds good for discussion private-beauty
<private-beauty> then there can be punishment, that might be an exciting thing
<private-beauty> one might even do things to attempt to be punished
<DarkAngel^> Oooohhh ,, ok private-beauty ,,, such as a roll play scene ? ... like cop and hooker?
<_dove> play punishment private-beauty?
<DarkAngel^> well ,,, from that view ,, has anyone enjoyed a purely casual "one time only" scene ?
<private-beauty> now introduce love and whamo, you even think you may have dissapointed your Sir and never mind being punished your world (ok my world) would crumble
<private-beauty> that would be one example yes DA
<DarkAngel^> care to suggest others that come to your mind private-beauty ?
* Sweet1` is confused, a punishment is ok if there is no love?
* _dove is also confused
<DarkAngel^> I think that is up to the people involved Sweet1` ,,, we were looking at roll play scenarios where it might be
<DarkAngel^> as part of the roll play
* DarkAngel^ LOL ,,, I think it has been noted already ,,, most here seem to already agree that love/connection is too big a part of our lifestyle to do without
<Sweet1`> so we are using punishment in a play sense and not in a d/s sense?
<DarkAngel^> not saying it cant be Sweet1` ,, but yes,, that was how it was pressented for discussion
* DarkAngel^ thinks with everyone on the same wavelength ,, this topic is harder to examine ,,, lol ,, we still try
<private-beauty> i used that only as and example sweet1
<DarkAngel^> but if you are in a casual play (negociated time) ,,, love doesnt need to be part of the dynamic ,,, and enjoyable play can certainly happen
<_dove> The levels of trust, of 'connection' are vastly different in a relationship, than in a casual meet or casual play - imo
<private-beauty> indeed but in that case there really is no love, so to speak
<delyssa> Isn't there also a difference between being with someone you love, being with someone you have an emotional connection with and being with someone you're very casual about? All can be enjoyable, but they each have a unique dynamic.
<aurelle> i agree, you can have a "relationship" based on mutual understanding and care for the person without being in love/ the term relationshop is used to define an ongoing interaction between two or more people
<DarkAngel^> not all will agree _dove ,,, (although I do) - BUT ,, that said, singles certainly should explore the one before the other ,, dont you agree ?
<private-beauty> good point DA
<DarkAngel^> how can one GIVE the deeper conection before exploring the surface
<DarkAngel^> testing the waters ? and I like em wet *Demonic Grin*
<_dove> i guess i differentiate quite significantly between the two, but that's just me
<delyssa> shouldn't it be determined by what the person needs, especially when starting out? I have a friend who felt I needed one type of experience for my first real bdsm experience, and she felt totally different about what another newbie might want. It all depends on what you'll need, and also, to be practical, what you find that suits you.
<aurelle> well said
<_dove> i agree delyssa - it truly depends on what one is looking for
<DarkAngel^> no argument _dove ,,, perhas the question might be ,,, how do you get from one ,,,,, to the other ,,, ? safely
<_dove> i can only speak for myself, Dark Angel, a casual meeting and an 'exploratory' are very different
<DarkAngel^> I guess every exploration (and I am entering one myself) is different ,,,
* _dove has been through both very recently
<DarkAngel^> LOL ,, I will admit ,, I was hoping for a period of NO COMMITTMENT ,, just casual play, nothing but mutual enjoyment and mutual play
<shareena^> sorry for joining late. What is an exploration
<DarkAngel^> life happened
<Sweet1`> the dating period shareena^
<DarkAngel^> well shareena^ ,,, playing without a deeper connection
<_dove> shareena - i was differentiating between a casual play meet, and people meeting to explore the possibilities of a relationship
<shareena^> I have had both experiences
<shareena^> imo, a relationship with love is much more fulfilling
<DarkAngel^> true shareena^ ,,, IMO that is ,,, but some of us DO need a snack when we are denied a full meal
<arhiannah> amen
<shareena^> not sure what you mean DarkAngel^
<arhiannah> to play just for the sake of playing?
<DarkAngel^> well shareena^ ,, I have been single for a bit of time ,,,,, and not interested in jumping into a relationship
* shareena^ nods.
<DarkAngel^> but ,,, it might be said ,,, I am a pervert ,, and have hungers
<Sweet1`> if it is a deeper relationship you seek, sometimes a surface scratch doesn't take care of the itch
<_dove> Both can be fulfilling, with different results?
<DarkAngel^> how can you ease hungers ,, when not ready to ,,, re-start
<Johncin> casual play DarkAngel^
<delyssa> Isn't it also like sex in general? There are some who could never sleep with someone they weren't in love with, others can enjoy someone on a purely casual/sexual level with no strong emotions there?
<arhiannah> i think people that believe that are only deluding themselves
<shareena^> very true delyssa
<shareena^> you believe that everyone that has casual sex develop strong emotions arhiannah?
<delyssa> believe what, arhi?
<_dove> deluding themselves of what arhiannah?
<DarkAngel^> I definetly agree Sweet1`
<aurelle> personaly i am at a stage where i am not ready to commit to someone, however i very much enjoy playing casually with someone i trust who understands what i need
<arhiannah> i think it's a very empty life if one *believes* that trying to fill the emptiness with casual sex...it's a crock...
<delyssa> I think it works for some, but not in general, and perhaps not in the long term.
<arhiannah> exactly my point
<aurelle> what if you are not trying to fill emptiness with it, just keep warm for the time being?
<arhiannah> in the long term
<Sweet1`> i've found that casual play may temporarily take care of the physical need, but doesn't look after the emotional or mental needs
<arhiannah> then what's love got to do with it.....or is it just about getting your rocks off?
<_dove> i don't think casual play (or casual sex) is a long-term answer arhiannah, but it can satisfy a physical need
<aurelle> you are right Sweet1
* _dove agrees with Sweet1`
<delyssa> and if you're not ready or willing to commit to the long term, or not emotionally willing to connect with someone, there's nothing wrong (if that's what two people choose to do) to have some casual fun - be it bdsm or 'nilla
<private-beauty> devils advocate here, what if your play causually with someone who developes stronger feelings?
<shareena^> i have been to some of the play parties in the area and I noticed that when the people are in a committed relationship the aftercare is different. Has anyone else noticed that?
<delyssa> ah, private-beauty... that's a mine field.
<_dove> i've only been to one play party shareena, but i noticed that
<DarkAngel^> definetly a problem area private-beauty
<private-beauty> but one i'm sure we have all be touched by in someway or another just due to the nature of the feelings bdsm scenes can stir
<DarkAngel^> I guess all you can do is talk it out before hand ,,, and not make assumptions
<DarkAngel^> one point ,,, at times ,, a Dom/me will play casually ,, and thereafter ASSUME they have rights ,,, the same for a sub played with ,,, - definetly a WRONG assumption
<private-beauty> agrees
<delyssa> rights in what way, DA?
* DarkAngel^ <--- tries NOT to fall into that trap,,,, I even asked permission to hug the ex-slave
<private-beauty> and causual ought to stop when feelings start
<Sweet1`> shareena^, it may be because the emotional aspect of the play is different and the aftercare may reflect that
<DarkAngel^> grabbing, Domming, unconcensual touching
<shareena^> I am sure it is Sweet1`
<jewel`{F}> or expecting that there will be play at any event they happen to run into each other at?
<DarkAngel^> yes jewel`{F} ,, good example
<DarkAngel^> those are examples of people who CANT make a distinction of casual
<delyssa> or that one or the other "won't" play with anyone else at any event they happen to run into each other at
<DarkAngel^> be their Love or not ,, there ALWAYS must be respect and proper protocol
<_dove> agrees
<shareena^> the one thing I hear which drives me slightly batty, is that if there is love in a relationship it ruins it
<_dove> It can happen shareena
<shareena^> how dove?
<delyssa> shareena^, I assume that, if there is love, it will surely change the relationship, but it doesn't always have to ruin it
<DarkAngel^> I disagree shareena^ ,,, I think it DEEPENS it (IMO of course) ,, but it MIGHt ruine any other casual play
<shareena^> you mean casual play with another partner DarkAngel^?
<private-beauty> also does not see how love could ruin a relationship
<DarkAngel^> yes shareena^
<shareena^> <---sucks at sharing anyway
<_dove> i differentiate between loving someone and being IN love with someone........
* DarkAngel^ <---- admits ,,,LOL ,,, I am a hopelessly - perverted, power hungry, controling, sic, twisted, domineering romantic at heart
<_dove> and modest to boot
<_dove> :)
<Sweet1`> some say love is blinding and makes it hard for a dom to dom
<shareena^> how does it make it hard Sweet1`?
<Sir_StephenS> for sure dove; IN love is more exclusive, for most
<Sir_StephenS> hehe DA
<DarkAngel^> I have heard that too Sweet1` ,,, and one friend who's relationship was ruined when he 'no longer could spank her"
* DarkAngel^ <--- ok ,, is warped ,, but gets DAMN hard when spanking a girl ,,,lol
<Sweet1`> you can't hurt the one you love syndrome? lol
<shareena^> i haven't experienced that in my relationship.
<Sir_StephenS> falling in love can ruin a relationship, such as between friends...same in bdsm
* shareena^ has bruises to attest to it too
<DarkAngel^> yes Sweet1` ,,, exactly ,,, weird though ,,, as that ended the relationship
<_dove> i need a deep connection with a Dominant to submit, i don't need the white picket fence and 2.2 children
<shareena^> the fact that he loves me did not take away his Dominant nature or his sadism
<shareena^> the biggest change that I have experienced is his concern for my emotional well being
<QTIP> when one loves one becomes vulnerable to being hurt. if a relationship starts out casual and becomes more, the most difficult thing is for the changing expectations NOT to be asked about. when these feelings of love are not talked about, but are expected to be shared equally, from both sides, a lot of hurt can be generated
<Sir_StephenS> that makes sense shareena^
* _dove agrees with QTIP
<DarkAngel^> anyone else see a view we might be missing ?
<DarkAngel^> how love has to do with it ?
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<DarkAngel^> how about love and giving or recieving disapline ?
<DarkAngel^> I know giving disapline is always a dificult task
<QTIP> not for all ;-)
<Sir_StephenS> maybe, maybe not
<DarkAngel^> does love make it easier ? ... or make it harder to acceot?
<Sir_StephenS> hehe
<jewel`{F}> i know that when i have done something that requires Master to discipline me, just the thought that i have disappointed Him that badly can be worse than any punishment Master gives me
<private-beauty> makes it harder to accept
<DarkAngel^> LOL ,, ok, making the distinction between disapline in a relationship and play disapline then
<private-beauty> agrees with jewel`{F}
<QTIP> i've looked into the eyes of a willing partner with whom i've been quite cruel and brutal and realized, "i care for you."
<DarkAngel^> how so for you private-beauty ?
<DarkAngel^> I as well QTIP
<`abi> I think that Love makes it easier to accept responsibility ... for what you have done and for what you must do ... whichever side of the flogger you are on
<_dove> well said abi
<shareena^> there is no comparison between play discipline and real discipline. I have had both. BIG difference
<private-beauty> If Master has to punish me it means i have dissappointed Him there is no impliment which could be harsher then knowing that DA
* DarkAngel^ looks into those eyes ,,, and thinks ,, I own you, I must care for you, I must correct you; thus also showing my love - although doing so is a dificult task ,, not doing so would be a failure to you, and of myself
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<Sweet1`> the act of the punishment means it's over, you can move on from there private-beauty