October 24 1999 EhBC Online Discussion

<{autumn^w}_U_> Well......before we start tonights discussion i just wanna say.......
<{autumn^w}_U_> i've never moderated anything but my own life and even thats questionable....so please bare with me.....hehehe
* BernieRoehl smiles confidently at autumn^w
<lexi{Gen}> bear with her
<tru_s{Ach}> you'll do fine {autumn^w}_U_
* tru_s{Ach} smiles
<BernieRoehl> (I've set an automatic message for the channel, to tell people the topic and rules)
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to say something but remain anoymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's topic is "Maintaining a D/s Relationship in a Household with Kids". Your moderator tonight is autumn whisper. Enjoy the discussion!
<BernieRoehl> -
* Kilted_One offers his arms and lap to his lovely slave to fill
<victoria_angel> great topic
<victoria_angel> has 4 kidlets at her home
* vixen{KO} settles into her Master's lap and knows T/they have lots to offer such a topic
<{autumn^w}_U_> Master and I asked Bernie about tonights topic because we couldn't find very much information and so thought this would be a good way to get some input
<{autumn^w}_U_> my own questions were how much to you let your children see?....how much do you tell an 11 year old ?....etc etc
* tyeslia has two kids
<Lady_Kate> I can't help but think of the case in upstate New York a few years back where the Houghton's had their kids taken out of the house because of a video tape a babysitter found... and took to authorities accusing them of abuse (untrue but disruptive to their lives)
<victoria_angel> we have a lock on our door
<{autumn^w}_U_> yikes Lady_Kate i never knew that
<victoria_angel> some things are only done when no kids in home
<vixen{KO}> years ago and in the states....
<{autumn^w}_U_> well yes there are some things that are common sense but ......what about basic things like wearing your collar?
<{autumn^w}_U_> or having them ask why your being told to do something?
<{autumn^w}_U_> my biggest challenge is how much do i share and what?
<lyxanna> i do nothing like that in front of my child
* vixen{KO} sits and polishes her KOlar that she does wear everyday...all day.
<{autumn^w}_U_> i dont either
<lyxanna> but how old are your kids vixen....i think sometimes that has something to do with it
<Lady_Kate> I have been doing some research on BDSM and parents... a social worker in the Carolina's who is into BDSM told me that in her department, if the kids were talking about BDSM activities at school and the like that it would be grounds for an investigation and very likely that the children would be removed.
<victoria_angel> autumn, my Masters collar remains in our room but it is anticipated that i will have a silver permanent one to wear like jewelery 100% of the time soon and it will be symbolic 
<{autumn^w}_U_> do your children ask about it vixen?
<vixen{KO}> true enough lyxanna....12 & 16
<victoria_angel> my kids aren't told about anything, mostly because they range in age from 2.5 to 11
<WHOS_YOUR_DADDY> Hello lyxanna *warm smiles*
<{autumn^w}_U_> well.....my first question was two weeks ago.....my daughter asked me what a "Dom" was
<{autumn^w}_U_> and at first i had no idea what to say
<{autumn^w}_U_> and i am soooooooooooo careful
<tru_s{Ach}> my son found a couple small toys of mine...we talked about them and he has never asked again...he's almost 13
<lyxanna> lol...where had she heard it?
<vixen{KO}> my daughter (the 12 yr old) takes great delight in yanking on the d-link, giving it a great shake and making a few barking noises....she thinks she's being amusing
<victoria_angel> autumn, then she over heard something
<victoria_angel> how do you refer to your Master in a public /semi-public place
<{autumn^w}_U_> yes she did......she overheard me say it.....but thats just it.....just when you think they are asleep they have one ear peeled open
<victoria_angel> k, i can relate - my son's 11 and his room is next to ours too
<{autumn^w}_U_> and no matter how painfully careful i am she is soooooooooooooooo on top of stuff
-> [#bdsm-kw] PING
<victoria_angel> my Master refers to me as pet which is perfectly acceptable in public - you know a cute nick name
* vixen{KO} is of the belief that ya don't flaunt it, but ya don't fib your face off either.
<victoria_angel> i 'silently and cautiously' refer to Him as Sir -....
<{autumn^w}_U_> thats just it vixen....how do you answer them?
<ti`mara{OR}> depending on the age tell them the truth
<{autumn^w}_U_> my daughter is 11
<Lady_Kate> The 50's style of housewives or the southern style of Sir and Ma'am works... but only if used to almost everyone.
<vixen{KO}> in a limited range....i find the KISS method stands true
<april^^> Master and i have two  one 13g and one 10b   the girl doesnt understand she is  mentally chanllenged but O/our boy  see's everything doesent question it 
<victoria_angel> autumn, 11yo's are being taught some new stuff in the school circulum this year
<victoria_angel> it includes alot of stuff on sexuality
<Kilted_One> no need to lie but there is also no need to tell the whole truth ether
<victoria_angel> want the kids ready for middle/high school
<april^^> but W/we also run a business making and selling floggers  so it doesnt fiss him
<TheWolfe> I do not believe in honorifics in front of kids
<ti`mara{OR}> no i am not saying tell them the truth just tell them that is a nick name that you have for him or her
<vixen{KO}> precisely....my kids hear "Master" come from my lips so often that it is a nickname to them
<april^^> i use Sir  mostly
<tyeslia> i don't use honorifics in front of the kids, just not comfortable
<ti`mara{OR}> and is that not the truth it is a name you call him what is the difference Sir or pumpkin
<vixen{KO}> and everyone has to weigh their own situation....true, true tyeslia
<victoria_angel> you know though, the eyes can tell as much as the mouth can
<{autumn^w}_U_> my directions are phrased carefuly by Master and my answer is usually a smile and then promptly do as I am asked but she sees all that and asks me later whats up
<april^^> true ti mara  he thinks  no different 
<victoria_angel> i tried that ti- it won't work here - i get those 'daggers' if i use sweetheart
<TheWolfe> what if they decide that, If we are talking about a boy, he wants his female friends to call him Sir or Master or he calls girls, slave.
<lyxanna> i think part of it is how comfortable both parties are with the situation
<ti`mara{OR}> how old victoria??
<ti`mara{OR}> the child i mean
<lyxanna> if i was expected to call someone Master infront of my kid, i would flip, would not be able to do it
<victoria_angel> my kids are 11, 6,4,2.5
<victoria_angel> so i've always got kids underfoot
* vixen{KO} thinks TheWolfe has a good point....
<{autumn^w}_U_> wow
<{autumn^w}_U_> now thats busy
<lyxanna> if that was a condition my "Master" put on me, the Master would go bye bye
<Kilted_One> I think that you maybe applying your own rules as far aw waht your kids will think.....
<TheWolfe> agreed lyxanna
<lyxanna> agreed KO
<Lady_Kate> A very wise choice lyxanna... safe for all!
<april^^> i agree KO
<TheWolfe> Aladdin & the genie
<TheWolfe> Master
<ti`mara{OR}> victoria hon i don't know what to tell ya
<{autumn^w}_U_> well....I have other issues....i am submissive....and i worry about how my interaction as a sub will influence her
<lyxanna> i also think that if it is a situation where the kids are from One of the participents, and not both, that changes the rules also
<victoria_angel> actually, my Master has the habit of very silently addressing me and i usually have a slight show of colour when i can't reply
<Kilted_One> most kids would think that it was OK to call your loved one or Master..."Master" as long as you said it "normally"
<TheWolfe> lol
<TheWolfe> oh really
<Lady_Kate> We often talk about consensual... At what age can the kids consent to knowing about the 'adult stuff' that goes on in a BDSM relationship?
<ti`mara{OR}> hold on a minute autumn what is wrong with it infulancing her
<lyxanna> hmmm....now that i have a problem with
<lyxanna> influencing my son
<lexi{Gen}> me too
<TheWolfe> so they would think it is normal to have others call them Master because they are male...hope you're not in an ethnic neighborhood
<MstrSire> Its interesting but society seems to suggest the age is 18, at least thats the age they can hold over us yet they begin to push their version of sexuality on kids in school much earlier.
<lyxanna> do i really want him to see me be subserviant to another in this society when i believe in equal rights and such?
<{autumn^w}_U_> ti`mara.....her whole 11 years has been watching me struggle to be strong, independant, get through college.....become successful....i guess im just afraid she will get mixes signals and be confused.....this is new to me....and seeing me go through it is new to her
<victoria_angel> yes, school starts pre-puberty mostly now
<TheWolfe> en kids see nothing
<lyxanna> yes autumn, my point exactly
<{autumn^w}_U_> so i guess im looking for a way to balance it all and explain it to her in a positive way without saying too much
<Kilted_One> ahh Wolfe I think you missed my point....they would think it natural to call your lover or Master..."Master" is what I said....they would ask why and you would say that is "his" name...
<victoria_angel> a submissive can be very successful and able to show strong characteristics, it is their desire and need to please - so there is a difference
<TheWolfe> no personality switches, no "looks", no honorifics
<Lady_Kate> I still think that if polite "Sir's" or "Ma'am's" are used it is within the bounds of social mores. Ausage (a dom) calls all his customers and most people "Sir" because he was raised that way!
<lexi{Gen}> Kilted, then they would call him "Master"
<lyxanna> autumn, what is the reason for wanting to do such stuff infront of your kids?...
<{autumn^w}_U_> true victoria.....i dont dissagree with that.....but kids see things a whollllle lot differently 
<victoria_angel> giggles, i'm called Ma'am at school all the time...
<lyxanna> i think maybe that is where everyone needs to begin
<{autumn^w}_U_> i dont want to lyxanna......im just worried about handling what she might see or ask or be curious about
<tyeslia> i have not ivolved my personal life with my home life until quite recently.. sometimes i have a hard time finding the balance between wanting to please and being totally vanilla because my kids are there..
<TheWolfe> think of more than yourselves
<lexi{Gen}> autumn, what exacly is she seeing?
<{autumn^w}_U_> like i said we show nothing in front of her 
<victoria_angel> i know autumn, i hope each of my kids is strong, but you know, there will always be some things we pass down to our kids and if that is submissiveness, then it will be the 'good and safe experiences' we'll teach them
<lyxanna> when she askes, answer her honestly
<ti`mara{OR}> ok autumn sorry i mis understood the way you were saying it
<lil^bear^> ohhh this sounds interesting
<april^^> LS and i rarely do anything that really would be questioned by the youngest 
<Lady_Kate> I have been wondering... Do groups of people who are into the scene ever think of getting the kids together at one house with a babysitter to enable the adults to go out (or to one of their homes) to play and socialize?
<lyxanna> like if she was to find a toy...tell her what it is for and how it is use, and emphisise it is done out of love not anger
<lyxanna> most of the time, kids get that part
<MstrSire> If the world were not vanilla, or it was more tolerant, would we act more openly in front of our kids?
<{autumn^w}_U_> i just dont know "how" honest to be with her.....do I just tell her that giving this way to him and my family fulfills me?....etc etc
<TheWolfe> let's step back for a second.....
<lyxanna> but does she see that part of it autumn.....
<lyxanna> and if so, when and how
<TheWolfe> work with Me here.....
<{autumn^w}_U_> she only sees me as an extreme caregiver lyxanna.....thats it
<TheWolfe> let's assume we all came from vanilla parents.....
* lyxanna did
<victoria_angel> lyx - toys should be kept somewhere where kids can't find them...i think a locked bedroom door would stop nosiness
* lil^bear^ did...
* vixen{KO} likes Lady_Kate's idea
<TheWolfe> did they discuss their sexual side in front of us?
<Lady_Kate> Is it wise to say it's more than an adult toy if a child finds a whip ? Most vanilla's just say their vibrators are adult toys when they are found!
<ti`mara{OR}> no my parents were into bondage just never found out til a few months ago
<Layianna> greetings A/all 
<april^^> true point TheWolfe
<MstrSire> Not the details but they acted 'vanill' in front of us
<victoria_angel> no TheWolfe, never did, but i found things (hehe) as a nosy teen - and i know that my interest in what i found is so similar to what i am enjoying as an adult
<TheWolfe> "Gee Mary, great blow job last night...but what about these teeth marks?" "look kids!"
<lil^bear^> agreed victoria angel, tis no reason to bring our kids into our lifestlye, to bear that is like a pot smoker leaving his dope ot
<bri^anna> lol
<lil^bear^> lol
<april^^> giggles
<vixen{KO}> ROFL
<ti`mara{OR}> i have to disagree with that to a point lil
<{autumn^w}_U_> lyxanna she sees me in a submissive role but not the kink ever.....she has never seen the restraints, toys, chain, rope....or any of that......just how i interact.......but she questions it.....because it is new to her
<tru_s{Ach}> TheWolfe, my parents wouldn't even hug in front of my brother and i!!
<TheWolfe> "You're getting much better at anal too Ronnie"
* lil^bear^ reminds TheWolfe Sir that mary is suppose to remove her teeth before the blow job
<bri^anna> rofl
<victoria_angel> not that many decades ago, women were very submissive in their roles as wives and mothers
<Layianna> If I might ask what is the topic here? 
<tyeslia> lol.. the first time i read "story of O" it was out of my mothers library
<TheWolfe> let's go to today.....
<{autumn^w}_U_> well it's like this......she went from seeing me as power lady......to June Cleaver in a way.....
<victoria_angel> there is nothing wrong with a wife or female taking care of her Man/Master
<april^^> i think that showing the love and respect to a certain degree in front of the children  and keeping toys locked wouldnt bring about many questions
<`zee> my kids are teens..they have snooped and found some of my toys...they asked if i was a Dominatrix...lol...told them that those things were my private items and that all they needed to know was that i am safe at all times... they answered their own questions re' role playing' and when i began any more explainations..they said 'TMI!!"
* vixen{KO} holds her sides....but knows of couples in the scene with adult children also in the scene....and all are happy, healthy adjusted people....not much was hidden when the time came for Q&A
<ti`mara{OR}> women being submissive has been around long before the time of Christ if it was all the bad it still wouldn't be happening
<tru_s{Ach}> the topic is "Maintaining a D/s Relationship in a Household with Kids"
* {autumn^w}_U_ agrees
<TheWolfe> "Master" is watching television.....kids are watching tv....."slave/mom" is cooking dinner...doorbell rings..."get that "pet"
<victoria_angel> lol
<victoria_angel> now now
<{autumn^w}_U_> TW it is those very things she sees....
<victoria_angel> what maybe needs to be discussed is HOW to play with kids in the house
<TheWolfe> it's "pets'" parents....she takes their coats gets drinks, continues with dinner & runs whenever Master calls
<{autumn^w}_U_> and those very things she questions
<april^^> actually the word itself  "pet" sounds common in my family
<TheWolfe> what does that teach the kids?
<TheWolfe> girls serve,,boys are served
<MstrSire> After I playfully patted nusha's behind one day my 6 year old daughter piped up "hey thats the sound I always hear from your bedroom at night"
<victoria_angel> TW, if it means MAN sit and WOMAN serve - hummm......
<tru_s{Ach}> that is assuming the relationship is male Dom and femsub TheWolfe
<tru_s{Ach}> what about femDomme and malesub?
<TheWolfe> the term Master does not equate to sweetheart it signies ruler, or commander
<MstrSire> My reply was, no no at night I am killing flies
<ti`mara{OR}> look anyway you look at it in time the kids will have questions about evey angle of sex wether it be bdsm, oral, love making in gernal,gay realtionships bi realtionships why hide it you don't need to tell them it all or details but don't lie you will regret it in the long run when they are older
<lil^bear^> which is wrong TheWolfe, god I dont want my daughter being a sub...
<tru_s{Ach}> what does that teach children?
<Lady_Kate> Is strict 24/7 really possible in a "Real Life" family in our society... and should kids be shown that one parent's sex is submissive while the other runs he show? (as in the case where pet may be either Mom or Dad)
<victoria_angel> quick comebacks - that is what we all need!
<victoria_angel> yes, LadyKate
<victoria_angel> i think it can
<TheWolfe> they sound like equal roles ti`mara
<`zee> to a teenage girl TheWolfe Sir.. it screams of her mom as being weak!! and letting the man boss her around..there has to be a balance to the girls also are reminded that mom has a strong side in the workplace and in raising the kids too
<Lady_Kate> Is it without giving the kids the idea that one sex is by nature dominant and the other submissive?
<TheWolfe> AGREED zee
<victoria_angel> here, we make time to play
<{autumn^w}_U_> i just want her to grow up with her own veiws....be her own person.....strong independant, good decision maker......however if i had to say how she would be the girl is all Domme and someday some guy might be in big trubble.....lol
<victoria_angel> a submissive is not created, they are born 
<TheWolfe> let's let them GROW UP first
<{autumn^w}_U_> i guess i just wanna know that what im doing isn't gonna mess the poor girl up and now im feeling guilty and doubting myself
* Kilted_One thought we were all born;)
<{autumn^w}_U_> and thats about as honest as it gets
* bri^anna smiles
<victoria_angel> autumn, you can't influence her
<TheWolfe> just don't do anything in front of the kids!
<victoria_angel> yes, KO, we were ... giggle
<ti`mara{OR}> autumn no matter what you perfer in the bedroom you teach her otherwise there is nothing wrong with a women being submissive and very independant
<TheWolfe> her gender roles could be all screwed up
<victoria_angel> you are born with the traits
<ti`mara{OR}> and there is nothing wrong with being a Domme and being in control of her life
<Lady_Kate> Growing up is difficult enough without the kids getting into situations where they are playing adult BDSM games without the knowledge or experience to be safe!
<tru_s{Ach}> i feel if we are honest with our children about what we're doing , they will not make hasty decisions
* vixen{KO} thinks the best influence autumn can have on her daughter is to be true to herself....that's the best role model and influence you can give her to grow up to be a strong woman....sub or Domme
<{autumn^w}_U_> somebody please just say "autumn yer doin fine quit worryin so much"....lol
<Kilted_One> but that advixe is no different from a vannilla relationship....you dont advocate having sex in front of your vannilla kids either
<lyxanna> lol
* `zee thinks all teens are Dom/mes by nature!
<tru_s{Ach}> if we are truly happy with the way our lives are going, our children will be too
<lyxanna> autumn, i am sure you are doing a great job, and the fact you are concerned shows you are a great parent...
<april^^> your doing a fine job autumn 
<victoria_angel> each child, when ready - mature, could be told about the lifestyle and then they'd have to make their own decision
<Kilted_One> "autumn yer doin fine quit worryin so much"....lol
<`zee> {autumn^w}_U_ you ARE doing fine... she will take the good points of you..your strength in all that you do...
<TheWolfe> (en now) as a mother who has thought of all these issues....the big thing is...if you think any way you are behaving might cause a problem or confusion that you could explain, but are not prepared to explain and that a child should not have to be explained...then put it aside for times when it won't be seen
<Kilted_One> "autumn yer doin fine quit worryin so much"....lol
<Kilted_One> "autumn yer doin fine quit worryin so much"....lol
<Kilted_One> "autumn yer doin fine quit worryin so much"....lol
<Kilted_One> "autumn yer doin fine quit worryin so much"....lol
<{autumn^w}_U_> thank you........hahahahaha
<Kilted_One> there that enough for you lass???
<victoria_angel> autumn, you cannot doubt yourself
<vixen{KO}> at least ya can't doubt yourself in this channel....LOL
<tru_s{Ach}> autumn, i'm not sure...but i think yer doin' a fine job!
<TheWolfe> doubt is good though...it allows you to reevaluate what you are doing and change your decisions or not
<victoria_angel> if you have to sit down with a 11 yo daughter, and explain some of the meanings of the lifestyle in the next few years, she'll be ready if you have a good relationship with her
<lil^bear^> i think. like most things in life, that as parents it is our responsibility to protect our children, at the age of 2 we do not tell them when they ask where babies come from, at least not in complete detail, we tell them the babies come from moms stomache, satisfies them until they are older and more capable of handling further information..i think the same is true for this lifestlye, at the age of 5 I am not telling my daughter why I call a man Sir 
<ti`mara{OR}> autumn i have two wonderful little ones 8 and 4 and if i ever get into a 24/7 D/s relationship they will get to see the independant women who struggled to get the three of us where we are but they will also get to see the happiness that comes from mom when she gets to be herself submissive
<TheWolfe> they probably don't want to see
<{autumn^w}_U_> that ti`mara is a wonderful and incredible way to put it
<TheWolfe> they see mom
<ti`mara{OR}> that is how i feel hon in my heart toatally
<TheWolfe> how's mom? happy? good
<{autumn^w}_U_> i am happy as a caregiver.....submissive......and she sees that
<vixen{KO}> which is exactly as it should be, ti`mara{OR}
<TheWolfe> they won't care why, so don't tell them
<victoria_angel> but - TW, even if they see mom, what autumn might be worried about is understand the difference between FLOGGING and a BEATING
<victoria_angel> that is where it could be tough
<TheWolfe> why tell them about the flogging?
<ti`mara{OR}> and it is important for her to see that autumn she needs to see the happiness that it brings you and the happiness she feels as the one getting your care and love
<Lady_Kate> Vanilla single parents have enough probs with a new man/woman in their lives without the complications of the BDSM... the kids are so often resistant!
<TheWolfe> why tell them that you enjoy servitude?
<victoria_angel> not saying telling, but if they 'hear'
<TheWolfe> were you a good mother before d/s?
<victoria_angel> realistically, i find that at night the house seems so quiet...
<ti`mara{OR}> you don't need to tell them about the floggings to you tell them you like anal there are just somethings you don't tell them but you don't hide the person you are on the inside then you are just lying to them and not showing them the real you
<MasterZarith> Don't forget theres a difference between BDSM and D/s when it comes to the Home and kids. BDSM can be hidden, the D/s relationship, can't really be hidden. That would be changing yourself, if you tried to hide it.
<{autumn^w}_U_> TW she asks me all the time if doing things make me happy.....and that includes throwing food in the oven at midnight just cuz he's looken for a snack....lol
<victoria_angel> i have always been in a d/s relationship
<victoria_angel> kids have just added a pleasant wrinkle
<Lady_Kate> Perhaps some portable soundproofing ideas should be considered??
<{autumn^w}_U_> and in those things i tell her the truth....yes ....
<lyxanna> hold it MZ....yes it can be hidden, and for me, will always be hidden
<TheWolfe> a snack at midnight is not a d/s thing lol
<MasterZarith> thats fine lyxanna, as it should be
* lil^bear^ has said enough for this evening time to go..she has homework to do...
<MasterZarith> can u hide your submissiveness tho?
<TheWolfe> what if a Master called his slave.."slut"
<tyeslia> True MZ..play is hidden and certain parts of D/s
* vixen{KO} takes notes....if autumn and U visit.....U likes midnite snackies...
<TheWolfe> any objections?
<victoria_angel> if it is served in bed it can be - ..
<{autumn^w}_U_> you know what i meant TW....lol
<Lady_Kate> Is it sufficient in a D/s relationship to put the 'excessive' taking care of the Dom down as pampering your loved one... 
<TheWolfe> is "slut" appropriate?
<lyxanna> in MOMMY MODE...i had better be able to
<ti`mara{OR}> sorry theWolfe if the Master can not have the respect for his sub not to do such a thing when the kids are present or within ear length i would say there is a problem
<victoria_angel> i am never referred to as slut
<TheWolfe> the potato salad was fine slut, wasn't it kids?
<victoria_angel> pet and slave, never slut
<{autumn^w}_U_> neither am i victoria
<lyxanna> agreed ti`mara
<TheWolfe> not speaking of anyone here
<MasterZarith> I understand when in "Mommy" mode, but you aren't in that mode all the time
<TheWolfe> hypothetically 
<victoria_angel> np, but yes, it could happen
* vixen{KO} thinks that parenting vanilla and parenting in the lifestyle are equal opportunity paternal instincts....certain things pass as certain times and others aren't brought up ever....for the health of the kids and for their own discovery as adults.
<Lady_Kate> Is slave really appropriate in front of kids?
<lyxanna> if the child is awake, present, around the corner even...oh yes i am
<TheWolfe> so slut could be appropriate in front of the kids?
<lyxanna> NO
<victoria_angel> slave is a closed door word....or over the phone - you know He says, i only hear
<{autumn^w}_U_> NO TW
<victoria_angel> that is where the colouring comes in....
<TheWolfe> but Master is ok
<lyxanna> NO
<lyxanna> not for me
<ti`mara{OR}> Sir
<`zee> MasterZarith Sir.. i can't hide who i am...nor try to..there are subtle ways to allow that to seep out..without creating the 'Look!"
<tyeslia> No TW
<victoria_angel> no, i prefer Sir in public places
<{autumn^w}_U_> Sir is okay for me
<victoria_angel> you can use Sir acceptably anywhere
<{autumn^w}_U_> but still my daughter looks at me with wonder....
* vixen{KO} measures `zee up for the "look"
<`zee> no TheWolfe Sir... only if said in a joking fashion that the kids would find funny yet i knew
<Lady_Kate> Is it not possible to come up with acronym's or replacements for Master, Mistress, and even a word that means slut to you or slave but fits as another 'nice' pet name??
<april^^> i agree zee  
<TheWolfe> what is the response then, ma'am?
<MasterZarith> good point zee
<{autumn^w}_U_> its just hard putting it all together
<SiRmac> master,slut, slave are all inappropriate with kids 
<TheWolfe> how about our real names?
<TheWolfe> there's an interesting concept
<victoria_angel> with or without Sir in front....
<TheWolfe> an honorific DOES NOT make Me Dominant
<{autumn^w}_U_> Master does call me by my real name
* vixen{KO} has to make a concerted effort to use Master's real name at any time.
<tyeslia> i use Sir's real name with the kids present.. sounds odd to my ears but i use it
<Lady_Kate> Wolfe? what do you mean by 'real names'?
<{autumn^w}_U_> but most often uses a pet name
<ti`mara{OR}> i am sure in any relationship we would use real names too but nick names are a big part of a realtionship
<{autumn^w}_U_> tyeslia that is so true......
<{autumn^w}_U_> it even feels odd to use it
<TheWolfe> Peter is my real name...it is what en calls me when the kids are around
<lyxanna> but again, is that nick really appropriate
<Lady_Kate> Ah... yes.. Good point. 
<SiRmac> any name said with the right inflection will carry the meaning you wish it
<victoria_angel> TW, it is important that my Master sees my submissiveness, rather than hear it
<tru_s{Ach}> my son knows my online nick of trufriend or tru.....he thinks nothing of people calling me by either one
<vixen{KO}> true SiRmac
<TheWolfe> if we are saying that Domination or submission is who we are then ehy hide behind an honorific? irc being the exception *smile*
<{autumn^w}_U_> his names for me are affectionate.....and that is the only way they could be perceived
<ti`mara{OR}> Wolfe to you and en 24/7?
<Lady_Kate> If you have kids, the kids have friends... I remember when I was a kid talking to other kids about things that went on in my parent's home... 
<SiRmac> honorifics to me.... are fun
<TheWolfe> (en here) besides...what does a young child get from hearing mommy calling daddy (or new boyfriend) Sir...if it is not followed by the equivelent "ma'am"?
<TheWolfe> I have never understood the term 24/7 to be honest
<Lady_Kate> It starts to go beyond your own kids who have a resource to get info from and spreads to kids they know...
<victoria_angel> en, i believe at times, my oldest may have heard a bit of name badgering here, and all i got was a funny look
<TheWolfe> lol...so they internalize it perhaps
<victoria_angel> i do think he likes the pet names (my son that is) - he sees it as affection
<ti`mara{OR}> exactlly victoria
<SiRmac> what specific names va
<Lady_Kate> If the person using the Sir or Ma'am does it with almost everyone... and the other person never uses that mode of speech it is just normal for people to speak differently...
<TheWolfe> (en) i heard my Dad having sex with my stepmother once....they were using some terms that i honestly can't recall what they were...but the sound and talk made me physically sick to my stomach....i still have weird feelings about that night
<victoria_angel> i want him to see that even though we aren't always in agreement, we touch and speak to each other (Master and i) affectionally
* {autumn^w}_U_ agrees victoria
<victoria_angel> i want him to have an affectionate relationship later on 
<SiRmac> i always heard my parents having sex..... i actually liked it....
<victoria_angel> whether it be a 'vanilla' or other type
<ti`mara{OR}> en i heard my father call my mother a bitch while in the bedroom having fun and i thought it was funny mind you i was 16 but it was funny
* vixen{KO} analyzes TW's comment...and wonders if that "trauma" hold merit to His feelings about this topic.....hmmm? <doing the Freudian chinscratch>
<SiRmac> no names though
<Lady_Kate> In many ways we are in the same position gay parents were in 10 or 15 years ago... when being gay was a reason to loose your kids in a divorce.
* `zee nods agreeing with Lady_Kate
<TheWolfe> SiRmac, there was something really odd and kinky going on tho...i have erased the details from memory...not vanilla sex
<victoria_angel> yes, and there isn't enough experience in BDSM by those who have the power to remove kids
<{autumn^w}_U_> i think about my own parents sometimes.....my mother called my father Sir or Master out of spite when he was miserable......odd how i see it now considering
<TheWolfe> the "trauma" as you call it vixen was en talking
* vixen{KO} nods at that end of the couch then....
<Lady_Kate> Wolfe, is that because it was your parents? Do you think the experience would have been less tramatic if it had been a sibling and their partner or a babysitter?
<SiRmac> odd? kinky? sounds good to me. as long as they were liking it. 
<tru_s{Ach}> Lady_Kate, that's exactly where i am now....i lost custody of my son because of this
<TheWolfe> it was ens' parents....she was 7
<lyxanna> lol
<TheWolfe> they were...she wasn't liking it
<TheWolfe> isn't that what we are talking about?
<TheWolfe> how it affects kids?
* zaRina` enters,, quietly bows and settles to the ladies chairs
<SiRmac> 7? i was older .... 13
<TheWolfe> (en here) and yes vixen, i am sure that it why i feel so strongly...i have some proof of how that particular episode affected me very badly
<TheWolfe> & for Me, well, I think that children should come before us, agreed?
<vixen{KO}> agreed
<victoria_angel> yes TW
* canplay agrees with The Wolfe
<tru_s{Ach}> our children are first and foremost
<Lady_Kate> That can be h*ll... how did your ex find out?
<lyxanna> with me, the main point is that anyone who enters my life is going to have to realize, no matter what, my son comes first, and that includes not using honourifics infront of him, not asking permission for certain things infront of him
<SiRmac> agreed TW 
<victoria_angel> lyx - that can usually work, but in a 24/7 it can be hard
<victoria_angel> very hard
* `zee agrees with TheWolfe
<victoria_angel> i find myself hesitating
<tru_s{Ach}> through here...he read history files and logs that i had no idea were being kept
<{autumn^w}_U_> true victoria.......
<TheWolfe> then adjust the 24/7  
<TheWolfe> whatever that is
<lyxanna> then victoria, i will not be in a 24/7
<TheWolfe> do you ask permission to fart?
<lyxanna> i will always put my child first, no matter what
<victoria_angel> lyx - with the right partner you can
<SiRmac> fart? 
<Lady_Kate> I'm wondering... if the kids find out their parents are into something kinky they are not comfortable with, who can they go to for advice? Will it screw up the lines of communication when the kids need someone to ask important questions?
* vixen{KO} used to just go outside for a smoke and then do it then....now i just explode?
<tyeslia> tru_s{ACH} you lost custody??..this is my particular nightmare from hell.. the thought of that happening.. ..
<lyxanna> if it means changing my ideas of what i find acceptable to show to my child, then no, i won't
<victoria_angel> lyx your job is to take care of yourself and your child
<Lady_Kate> Ah... good lesson for everyone... learn what electronic trails or extension phones may be around that can betray you!
<lyxanna> the most my child will ever see, is my sitting on the floor, and that i do when no one is here anyways
<SiRmac> 24/7 is a sub and a Dom that live together
<tru_s{Ach}> it's been almost 2 years now
<victoria_angel> but, realizing that the limits should be set when you begin a contract with a Master
<victoria_angel> if you say ... no... then that is the rule
<Lady_Kate> tru_s... have you been able to maintain visitation at least?
<{autumn^w}_U_> Lady_Kate.....my daughter and i have a great relationship that way.....for us there is no question that can't be asked.....and she knows that if something bothers her she can come to me......and she has proven many a time that she has no fear of asking
<tru_s{Ach}> my son has seen me sit at Sir's feet and thinks nothing unusual about it
<TheWolfe> en & I fit your definition SiRmac
<victoria_angel> tru, sitting at someones feet is great!
<tru_s{Ach}> the same with my son and i {aut
<tru_s{Ach}> {autumn^w}_U_
<SiRmac> yes TW
<Lady_Kate> Each child is an individual and at a different stage of acceptance of a parent being a sexual being... some never get comfortable with their parents as sexual beings...
<tru_s{Ach}> i get him every other weekend
<Lady_Kate> Good to hear you are not totally separated from him!
<victoria_angel>  for us here at home, names won't present a problem, but if i had to wear 'gear' , then it might be unacceptable to me (collar excluded of course)
<tru_s{Ach}> i wouldn't let that happen, although it's what the ex was hoping for!
<{autumn^w}_U_> so you wear your collar openly victoria?
<tru_s{Ach}> we're back in Court in Feb...this time i will get custody
<victoria_angel> mind you, my work dresscode might not conform well with a collar....humm......i have to wear my id around my neck
<{autumn^w}_U_> i wear chokers.....
<victoria_angel> no, i am hoping that my Master will present me with a silver (custom designed one) by Christmas
* tyeslia sits at Sir's feet.. to me that's ok.. and once the D ring is off the collar, i'll wear it.. it looks like a choker
<victoria_angel> i'm working to earn it
<{autumn^w}_U_> me too
<victoria_angel> at present His training collar is under my pillow when not in use
<{autumn^w}_U_> *smile*
* vixen{KO} peers over victoria_angel's shoulder to read her Santa list
<Lady_Kate> It is difficult enough when the kids are adults in their twenties and I wonder if it will hurt them (Ausage's kids) because he and I are both very open and public about our kink... a privilage we have because we have one close that it will hurt...
<{autumn^w}_U_> well my chokers , two which were both gifts from him are worn .....and those my daughter doesn't question
<victoria_angel> lol vixen - he's putting a lock on it....glad my hair could hide that...
<vixen{KO}> mine does too victoria_angel
<Lady_Kate> va... there are some lovely heart shaped locks that get less 'adverse' attention...
<victoria_angel> autumn, this collar will be much like a choker if He has his way
<victoria_angel> nice and close to keep reminding me....
<{autumn^w}_U_> thats wonderful
<zaRina`> hello A/all,    femSwitch/sub 40 Burl, suPerMom to a 16yr son, grandmother of 1 (may i join in?
<vixen{KO}> speaking of locks....should all toys and equipment be under lock and key?
<{autumn^w}_U_> i'll be a choker by day collar by night kinda mom once i earn it....lol
<vixen{KO}> please zaRina`.....by all means
<victoria_angel> Lady Kate - the heart locket was there within 6m of us meeting - and that was - gosh 22 yrs ago
* `zee smiles to {autumn^w}_U_
<Lady_Kate> If you don't want the kids or the babysitter to find it... YES!!!
<victoria_angel> vixen - our bedroom door is locked
<vixen{KO}> hmmm....babysitters do pose an extra dilemma, true.
<victoria_angel> other than the 'things Master has on the rafters' under ceiling tiles, nothing is outside of the bedroom door
<vixen{KO}> as do parents visiting too.
<{autumn^w}_U_> welcome zaRina
<{autumn^w}_U_> i think so vixen.....for me anyway.....hidden away.....im not near ready to explain what a flogger is for if she finds one
* Kilted_One say that vixen's neck is locked in the bedroom ;)
<zaRina`> children are a slate, absorbing the day to day impressions we give them in rl social realm.  What can i child loose out on in living in a relationship of respect, obediance, trust, care and guidance from their role models
* `zee loved to sleep with her collar and cuffs clipped to her collar..had to keep the blankets up high in case kids came in...lol
<tyeslia> vixen{KO} yes!!!. my kids are still pretty young... and my oldest already duct taped my youngest.. sigh... without ever seeing anything!!
* vixen{KO} has seen the 'things Master has on the rafters' idea before....and thinks it's a damn fine one indeed!!!
<Lady_Kate> I meant the lock that is a heart... nice tiny silver key that works too!
<victoria_angel> zee = giggle - i have a high collared housecoat for quick dashes to the b.room
<vixen{KO}> mine did the tie the boy up on a stool routine....just as the kid's mother showed up at the door to pick him up!!!   LOL
<{autumn^w}_U_> well.....it's 10 bells......any last comments before we wrap it up?.....*smile*.....
<zaRina`> we dont have wild sex or hang from chandaliers in front of them anyhow,, so, my thought is, BDSM (sex aspect) is /should be in private, BDSM (lifestyle) in public/home cant hurt them at all
<tyeslia> LOL
<SiRmac> love your kids
<sweetslave{AF}> well done autumn....alot of very thought provoking comments made here tonight...
<BernieRoehl> Many thanks to autumn for moderating tonight's discussion!
<{autumn^w}_U_> good point zaRina
* #bdsm-kw is being logged
* #bdsm-kw is being logged
<victoria_angel> autumn, thanks - great topic - do you feel better about your concern?
<SiRmac> thnks autumn
<{autumn^w}_U_> i am soooooooo lagged
<tru_s{Ach}> see {autumn^w}_U_?  you DID do fine!  hehe
<tyeslia> well done :))..thanks autumn
<zaRina`> i love to discuss BDSM,, and will look forward to more ,,,,, 
* vixen{KO} hugglez {autumn^w}_U_ for doing such a great job her first time out as moderator....
<TheWolfe> lol...appropriately enough, had a minor familt crisis to deal with
<april^^> thanks autumn *s*
<vixen{KO}> see?  that cherry removal didn't hurt so bad after all, huh, sis?
<BernieRoehl> Thanks also to everyone who participated -- a good discussion all the way around.
<{autumn^w}_U_> thank you thank you
* `zee has a lot of food for thought to ponder later
* {autumn^w}_U_ hugz all around
<{autumn^w}_U_> whew , that wasn't so bad Bernie....*smile*
<BernieRoehl> You did well, autumn!