October 24, 2004 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "What does the Dom Get Out of It?". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<shareena> so.... what do Doms get out of it?
<Jaysker{princess}> satisfaction on many different levels
<john-lennon-afk> omg
<jen{SE}> *smiles* @ Sir Seville{s}, so what's in for Your Sir *grins*
<shareena> What levels Jaysker{princess}?
<Jaysker{princess}> emotional, physical, psychological...
<Jaysker{princess}> the sense of being trusted, of being able to take someone someplace special is huge
<shadoe> sorry.. was afk
<Jaysker{princess}> Being able to give someone something they NEED is awe-inspiring
<Jaysker{princess}> i feel creative when i top someone
<feline53> good evening
<`Anticipation> what *I* get out of it is a sense of completeness.....no matter what we do together....it makes me feel complete to not only take her to a feeling of contentment....but BE taken there....by her...by her letting me work on her....at whatever level we feel like at the time.....its not something that is even physical most of the time
<Jaysker{princess}> whats it like for other folks?
<jewel`{F}> what about when it isn't play?
<the_wild_rose> nod
<the_wild_rose> when it is training
* john-lennon-afk pokes rose
<john-lennon-afk> oops
<john-lennon-afk> wrong chan crud
<`Anticipation> it ISNT play for me...or for mine ever jewel`{F}....its how we view our lives together...at all times....
<the_wild_rose> still what do you get from teaching us
<jewel`{F}> Fyre gives me so much at other times, emotional support when i need it, guidance in all sorts of things
<jewel`{F}> what does the submissive give back to the Dom?
<Seville{s}> obediance would be a good start
<Jaysker{princess}> I love to feel needed and relied on
<paperclip> ok, what about ownership? what does the Dom get from that? what makes it different/more special than not owning? does it play a role at all for You?
<Jaysker{princess}> her NEED - which matches my hunger...
<lucy{H}> i think of it more in terms of what does the Dom inherently get out of it...not so much what sorts of tangible things the sub gives...though it is an exchange after all
* `abi waits to hear the word power
* motoki waits to hear the word inspiration
<Jaysker{princess}> indeed abi
* lucy{H} hauls out her dictionary
* shareena waits to hear what the Doms say and not what we think they should say
* BernieRoehl smiles and settles in for the discussion
<BernieRoehl> So, have we solved the question?
<the_wild_rose> i am wondering ..i go thru so many emotions..what doese that top get from teaching me
<the_wild_rose> when i am a blubbering idiot
<lucy{H}> IMO, Domination is hard work...so the Dom/mes must get something out of it or They wouldn't do it
<the_wild_rose> what can he get from that
<Jaysker{princess}> what do you think Bernie?
<Seville{s}> obedience would be a good start
<the_wild_rose> that it?
<lucy{H}> why is that satisfying?
<cenobite{A}> the_wild_rose: I feel the same way. When I am having a right awful day, what the hell does He get out of it? How can He enjoy owning me then?
<`abi> related to power methinks
<the_wild_rose> yes
<BernieRoehl> Well, I get many different things from it, depending on exactly what the "it" is
<Jaysker{princess}> the being trusted ... is beyond words
<starla{TDM}> Master says..He craves the submission as much as i crave the control and a way to get a deeper submission from me..is via BDSM
<paperclip> well, pick an 'it' BernieRoehl and explain to us LOL
<`Anticipation> I dont look at it as ownership......to me its a partnership....we are both adults.....we talk....we listen.....we fill an emotional area in each other...that goes even deeper than any amount of even physical pleasure for either of us...although the pleasure that we get from our relationship always HAS a physical part to it
<BernieRoehl> The satisfaction I get from physical play is quite different from the satisfaction I get from having someone submit to me
* BernieRoehl smiles @paperclip
<starla{TDM}> and...........thats about all i know on that subject lol
<paperclip> :)
<`abi> what do you get that you couldn't get from a vanilla relationship?
<BernieRoehl> I like being in charge
<the_wild_rose> yes
<Jaysker{princess}> yes, different but both essential to who I am I guess
<Jaysker{princess}> intensity is so much different than vanilla
<paperclip> i agree with BernieRoehl, this topic right now is too general. i think we need to determine exactly what aspect we are discussing...the play? the mental? the underlying mentality of the relationship?
* lucy{H} ponders that but decides to stay on topic
* `abi thinks they are all relevant
<BernieRoehl> In terms of the physical (just to start somewhere...) the satisfaction I get is very similar to the satisfaction I get from sex. I thrive on being able to produce strong reactions in someone. But as Jaysker{princess} points out, the intensity is much greater than with simple vanilla sex
<Jaysker{princess}> they are all intertwined for me
<paperclip> of course they are, but to wrap them all in a pretty package and say they're all the same is not realistic.
<lucy{H}> agreed...each likely feeds a different need
<BernieRoehl> After all, physical play can incorporate sex, so it's like having a broader palette to draw from
<paperclip> the feelings, 'what they get from it' is different at different times.
<Jaysker{princess}> I crave taking someone somewhere new, different or slightly scary to them
* motoki likes it when Dominants crave that
<BernieRoehl> I think that's part of the appeal in playing with newbies, Jaysker{princess} -- for them it's all new, different and slightly scary
<motoki> amen to that - LOL
<`Anticipation> I enjoy being the one she turns to....for even something as small as making sure my coffee is ready in the morning....its a dynamic of give and take.....sometimes its a give and take of physical pleasure.....sometimes its a give and take of emotional support.....but in all instances....its a give and take of life roles...I need to feel that I am in command of what is around me....and that I have control over wh
<wanderingfire> is it ever!
<Seville{s}> ah the fresh flesh syndrome Bernie?
<the_wild_rose> heh
<BernieRoehl> Yes, Seville{s} -- I think that's part of where that syndrome comes from
<`Anticipation> .and that I have control over what happens in our lives
<Seville{s}> well it's a good one
<`Anticipation> sorry...I typed too much for irc to send LOL
<Seville{s}> you get to take the submissive into areas fresh and new
<Seville{s}> ]and just when you are getting tired of that
<wanderingfire> everything is new for me...
<Seville{s}> they get to go on to someone who will nurture them
<paperclip> ok, so we're all in agreement that newbies are fun. but i'm curious about the long term. what is it you get out of whatver you're doing that makes you want to continue doing it?
* BernieRoehl smiles as all the Doms turn their attention to wanderingfire
<motoki> good question, paperclip
* jen{SE} just came back, and sees the fresh flesh!!!, what did i miss *smiles
<paperclip> ty
* jen{SE} notes jen's flesh is old
<Jaysker{princess}> well, at the most basic level, its FUN...
<paperclip> hehe
<paperclip> hey, that's a good answer Jaysker{princess}
<paperclip> honest too
* BernieRoehl smiles @ jen
<shareena> But over time, why do you stay in it Jaysker{princess}, other than fun.
<BernieRoehl> ... but still in excellent condition, jen
* `abi suspects that there is some satisfaction in continuing to find new layers to the onion
<paperclip> :)
<BernieRoehl> Fun is good
<`Anticipation> paperclip...personally....I have no desire to move on to others......I want the joy of spending the rest of my life exploring the different areas....with only ONE lady....(and I have that lady btw *smile*) and she gives me that feeling of being in control of our lives together.....and I need to feel that
<BernieRoehl> True, abi
<jen{SE}> in seriousness i have always had that thought, no matter what i can give SE, i can never give Him new again
<wanderingfire> good answer 'Anticipation
<paperclip> that's nice `Anticipation, i like that
<jen{SE}> We can find new experiences, but we can never be new again *smiles*
<starla{TDM}> i like it to `Anticipation
<BernieRoehl> And how do each of you feel about that, jen?
* krista-F wants to be new
<`abi> dunno jen....are you still the same person you were 5 years ago?
<Jaysker{princess}> it feeds me. it is part of who i am as much as being a dyke is.
<jen{SE}> mostly abi *lol*, i am a creature of habit if nothing else, but yes, i do know what you mean, we do evolve and change as time goes on
<starla{TDM}> agreed jen{SE} we will never be new again..but i sure can submit on a deeper level to my Master then to a casual play partner and according to Master..that is what He needs
<jen{SE}> Bernie Sir, we are fine with it
<Seville{s}> I think the word is innocent...not new
<Seville{s}> we change our skin every 7 years
<Seville{s}> but our brain is just 7 years older
<`abi> and if you do jen ... then you are new ... or at least parts of you are new ... I figure, if I'm still discovering parts of myself after 48 years, there ought to be enough to keep someone else busy for awhile
* BernieRoehl smiles @ jen
<shadoe> i dunno.. living with Himself is enough to keep anyone on their toes.. He always manages to introduce *something* that i know nothing about
<shareena> i can relate to that shadoe
<`abi> you mean those braincells are irreplaceable Seville? ... someone should have told me sooner
* motoki grins
<`Anticipation> and shadoe.....isnt that one definition of "new".....no matter how long you and your partner have been exploring things?
<Jaysker{princess}> good point shadoe. there are lots of new things in the world
<Seville{s}> oh abi.......we told you but you just kept screaming for more
<shadoe> *smile*.. i like to think i introduce a few new things from time to time as well..
<`Anticipation> thats important shadoe....I learn as much from her.....in terms of creativity....that she ever learns from me
<BernieRoehl> So, moving on from the virtues and pitfalls of "newness" and back to the topic at hand... what are some of the other satisfactions that we get?
<bridgeit`> by introducing new things, do You mean more in the way of a scene or as in new "toys"
<Jaysker{princess}> I was particularly thinking of new scene things
<jen{SE}> for me it is new things in life in general, lifestyle, work, home, etc...
* the_wild_rose agrees with jen{SE}
<QTIP> it's not always satisfying but there is always something for me to learn. i have a love/hate relationship with facing my own limits, but that seems to be where growth is.
<`Anticipation> new ideas.....new methods.....new questions for me to answer (sometimes THATS the tough one LOL)...
<jen{SE}> i know what i get out of it, so i would love to hear what the Tops get out of it?
<QTIP> perhaps it's something i've learned to expect from any relationship
<Jaysker{princess}> what do you mean QTIP?
<QTIP> there are challenges being in any relationship
<QTIP> facing my own personal limits allows me to know what i want more than anything else
<bridgeit`> are there certain responses a Dom/me gets from their sub that really pleases Them
<BernieRoehl> For me, a bunch of things... I like to make someone squirm, and wriggle, and crawl, and beg, and plead, and tremble, and blush, and scream, and...
<BernieRoehl> Well, you get the idea
<QTIP> i've a quote by Alistair Crowley on my fridge: "You never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough."
<`Anticipation> the biggest challenge I find QTIP.....is in opening up to her....in so many MORE ways than in a vanilla relationship (which I have been in both)....its so much easier to close up in a vanilla relationship....than it is in our relationship now,,,
<QTIP> oh...i'm also into sexual intensity ;-)
<Jaysker{princess}> what pleases me about it? Being opened to. the reactions Bernie all mentioned.
<QTIP> bridgeit`: to me it's inspiring someone to respond, mentally, physically, emotionally. i want to be inspired. i want to inspire in kind
<shadoe> so .. it doesnt seem to me that anyone is answering things like just really liking the raw power of controlling another person
* jen{SE} waves good night
<shadoe> it seems like it's all being really polite
* lucy{H} would have thought power would be near the top of the list...who knew?
<BernieRoehl> That's the other side of things, shadoe
<QTIP> control is an interesting concept. what is it really?
<BernieRoehl> In physical play, it's all about the reactions. In a relationship context, it's (ultimately) all about pwoer
<shadoe> what other side? why are we being so careful to not say the reality?
<bridgeit`> as a sub i feel protection from my Dom, do most Dom/mes enjoy the feeling of protecting their sub?
<shadoe> but no one is talking about that Bernie
<motoki> power must be the proverbial elephant in the middle of the living room
<BernieRoehl> I think it's because it's more difficult to get a handle on it, shadoe
<QTIP> that's a large part of the responsibility i take in my role, bridgeit`
<shadoe> oh come on
* lydia smiles.
<shadoe> most doms are egotistical s.o.b.'s that most submissives love and want
<`Anticipation> I wont deny that sometimes the pure physical control over her is feels VERY good,.....its the ultimate turn on for me.,....to sometimes feel her struggle in vain against what I am *going* to take from her.,...(with her always knowing that I will NEVER push beyond her ability to give in to what I want)
<motoki> shadoe, please say what you really mean
<BernieRoehl> I don't think it's any reluctance to acknowledge it. After all, saying "I like to whip someone until she screams" is not exactly socially acceptable, so I doubt if we're squeamish about saying "I like to be in charge in a relationship"
<shadoe> and the world revolves around them.. and submissives want it to be that way as well
<princess{Jaysker}> that's very different from my experience, shadoe; Jaysker is the farthest thing from egotistical.
<BernieRoehl> Me? Egotistical? Well... maybe a bit
<princess{Jaysker}> She wears her insecurities on Her sleeves.
<princess{Jaysker}> BUT...
<princess{Jaysker}> She can be totally in control between us.
<Kilted_One> what bid Bernie??? <eg>
<shadoe> well...princess... your mileage will vary of course...
<princess{Jaysker}> as I say - different from my experience.
<princess{Jaysker}> :)
<shadoe> but i am willing to bet that most of the doms here... are pretty much egotistical.. and that's perfect and fine with me
* BernieRoehl smiles at KO... "most of my bits are pretty egotistical"
<shadoe> what is REALLY annoying is the political correctness.. as Bernie suggested
* lucy{H} thinks we're all egotistical, we just feed our egos in different ways
<lydia> May I ask a general question of all the dominants pls?
<QTIP> ask
<lydia> Thank you.
<`Anticipation> shoot lydia
* lily prefers those egotistical, take no bull, push button Dominants. But then that's just me.
<lydia> Which aspect of your personality, as a dominant do you rely on the most?
<shadoe> most worry about what's socially acceptable
<BernieRoehl> Actually, most of us spend a lot of energy keeping our egos in check, just to function in the vanilla world
<BernieRoehl> Of course, lydia
<shareena> good question lydia
<QTIP> how about a top 3 list, lydia?
<QTIP> ;-)
* lydia smiles.
<BernieRoehl> In order... 1) Confidence, 2) Imagination, 3) Compassion
<shadoe> *lil toast to Bernie*...
<Seville{s}> the being always right part of my personality
<BernieRoehl> (and yes, compassion really is last)
<Kilted_One> ability to control myself and my emotions
<QTIP> observation, focus, flexibility
<lydia> Imagination before compassion BernieRoehl?- I can understand why you'd place confidence ahead of the others but....
<shadoe> nope.. he's right lydia
<Jaysker{princess}> i agree
<Seville{s}> compassion may lead to weakness
<BernieRoehl> I think compassion is necessary, but too much of it can undermine things
<shadoe> and during a good scene.. the compassion generally arrives about the same time as their swing arm gets tired
<_dove{S}> How so Seville{s}?
* BernieRoehl smiles @ shadoe
<`abi> lol
<dana^^> lol
<lucy{H}> if One is in control of their emtions, as Sir KO said, then compassion should not lead to weakness
<Kilted_One> laughs at shadoes comment
<shadoe> but i'm right aren't i KO? *grinnng*
<Seville{s}> if one is always in control of their emotions then they are robots
<Seville{s}> we are human
<lucy{H}> of course
<`Anticipation> being empathetic......ability to admit fallibility when it happens....ability to think thoughts thru to conclusions....ie..not jumping into something without identifying the pros and cons
<Seville{s}> and as such compassion can lead us to restraining instead of pushing
* lydia smiles softly.
<lucy{H}> wasn't suggesting otherwise...just don't think compassion should be eschewed for fear it will lead to weakness
* shareena notes that compassion has never interfered with anything Anticipation is doing. More likely what shadoe said. He stops when he wants to
<Seville{s}> I did use the word "may" lydia
<lucy{H}> sometimes restraint might be in order...pushing can come another day
<Seville{s}> it's not a given
<QTIP> i can easily take the role of being aloof, unconcerned and condescending. i've also looked into the eyes of someone with whom i've been cruel and brutal and thought, "i care for you." i'm a romantic
<motoki> not eschewed, just in its proper place
<Kilted_One> actually there is a brief spell before that (very brief mind you) and that is when the submissive starts to cry....
<lydia> So in other words, you all find a way to temper compassion by administering?
* motoki makes a mental note of KO's words, and adds crying to her arsenal of weapons LOL
<lucy{H}> LOL @ motoki
<the_wild_rose> lol
<shadoe> good luck motoki.. he buys kleenex by the truckload
<lydia> Trust me, motoki...it's useless. <G>
<Kilted_One> dont rely on it too heavily as I said it is very brief...
<motoki> lol
<the_wild_rose> man i am armed and dangerous then
<Seville{s}> well lydia...for some....a skein of indifference is a tonic
<lydia> For whom, Seville{s}?
* `Anticipation whispers to the other Dominants.....although the fallibility part rarely happens LOL (sorry.,....an attempt at humor for shareena's sake *grin*)
<lydia> The domiant ..or the submissive?
<motoki> for those who drink with skeins
<shareena> lol
<the_wild_rose> lol
* lydia smiles.
<Seville{s}> for the dominant
<lydia> Have any of you ever failed in a relationship?
<Seville{s}> yes indeed
<BernieRoehl> Absolutely, many times
<lucy{H}> define failed?
<Kilted_One> raises his two hands
<Seville{s}> and that was because of mismatched expectations
* lydia nods.
<QTIP> huh?
* starla{TDM} raises her hands and feet and grabs jewel`{F}'s hands and puts them up in da air too
* QTIP looks around
<lydia> What did you do to compensate?
<Seville{s}> moved on to another relationship
<lydia> Did you take anything with you from the previous relationship?
<shadoe> what does failed relationships have to do with this? they can happen in any type of lifestyle
<Kilted_One> mmmm I think in my cases it has been that once the honeymoon was over and the mundaneness sets in that we really do find out who we are and what we really want...many have said be carefull what you wish for as you just might get it...
<dana^^> healed and reflected on the why... so that i understood myself better....
<lydia> Or do you wipe the slate clean so to speak?
* lucy{H} scratches head
<Seville{s}> picked a person more compatible
* BernieRoehl tries not to get distracted by starla{TDM} having her feet in the air
<QTIP> experience is a great teacher, lydia...once you let go of the myth of regret
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
* lydia smiles.
* lucy{H} writes that down, QTIP...very quotable
<QTIP> my worse f**k ups are my best lessons. those are the ones that stick
<_dove{S}> A lot of what we do and who we are is based on experience,so i would say it's almost impossible *not* to take anything from a previous relationship
<lydia> Would you consider that baggage _dove{S}?
<_dove{S}> lydia, i suppose, but it could be good baggage as well
<BernieRoehl> I've learned a lot from every single relationship I've been in, and each one has helped me find out what my needs are. And getting those needs met is my answer to "what I get out of it".
<lydia> Aye...I'd tend to agree.
* starla{TDM} winks to BernieRoehl
<motoki> that sounds like a universal truth to me ... after all, that's what we're all attempting to achieve ... to get our respective needs met
<lydia> Are there discussions here every sunday evening?
<Seville{s}> ummmmm motoki
<shareena> yes lydia
<Seville{s}> I think dominants just want their needs met
* lydia smiles.
<paperclip> lol
<Seville{s}> and yours can happen or not
<BernieRoehl> Yes, lydia
<Seville{s}> smiling sweetly
* lydia grins......I think you're right, Seville{s}.
* motoki grins since that's part of my need, so it's all good LOL
<shadoe> don't trust that smile!
* lydia chuckles.
* motoki bats her eyelashes
<BernieRoehl> If you're local to Southwestern Ontario, lydia, there are also brunches and munches where you can meet most of us in person
<motoki> scary but true
<Kilted_One> just their needs met Seville{s}?? what about my ego?? need it polished too
<lydia> Montreal here, BernieRoehl.
<QTIP> aren't both top and bottom into kinky play for selfish reasons? isn't this an ego trip for both top and bottom? both seem to have certain specific needs they want to find attention to fulfill
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informally. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<motoki> how about with tears, dear sweet KO, Sir?