October 22 2000 EhBC Online Discussion

<BernieRoehl> Well, it's 9 pm
* `vixie chuckles
<Galadan> lol vix
<BernieRoehl> I've set the channel message as follows...
* canplay bets Bernie has a smile on His face at all times
<`vixie> sowwy, couldn't help it, am in a bratty mood
<BernieRoehl> True, canplay -- as I guess a lot of people know by now :-)
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using hebron.in.us.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion topic is "Training Techniques". The moderator tonight is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<BernieRoehl> Before we begin, I want to emphasize that input from both Doms and subs is equally welcome here!
<IB6-UB9> hi anyone from London Onatrio??
<BernieRoehl> Doms can offer perspectives on training techniques they've used, and subs can comment on techniques that have been used to train them
<IB6-UB9> what happend to lulu's
<BernieRoehl> IB6-UB9, we're just in the midst of a discussion on the topic of Training Techniques. You're welcome to join in if you like, or just watch
<BernieRoehl> So, anyone have any opening thoughts on Training?
<IB6-UB9> sure
<`vixie> that it should be consistent Bernie
* fantasin{SR} raises her hand
<BernieRoehl> Go ahead, fantasin{SR} -- no need to raise your hand
* BernieRoehl nods at vixie
* Sardaukar Personally when it comes to Training, the first thing that comes to mind is patience by bot the Dom/me and by the sub
<fantasin{SR}> sometimes I think there are misnomers about training, one cannot train or be trained to be submissive... you either are or are not
<fantasin{SR}> you can train and be trained to serve your Master/Mistress' personal preferences
<fantasin{SR}> and in positions
<fantasin{SR}> that type of thing
<fantasin{SR}> but believing you will "train" a pushy bottom to be submissive I think is a falacy
<IB6-UB9> I am new at this please help,I could be either or is there supposed to be a preference
<BernieRoehl> So you're saying that a "pushy" bottom is inherently untrainable, fantasin{SR}?
<fantasin{SR}> no Bernie, you can train them in techniques... and how to do physical things
<fantasin{SR}> but you cannot make them be submissive
<Kirspin> I think going slow with the training is very important, dont rush the basics
* BernieRoehl nods
<canplay> this one assumed W/we were going to discuss techniques anyhow
<Sardaukar> but that is where the Dom/me must adept training techniques to suit the personality of the sub, there is no set method of training
* fantasin{SR} sits back and listens
<Sardaukar> One must know the abilities and temperment of Thier sub and then work with in those limits to bring the best out of them
<BernieRoehl> Can we categorize training techniques? For example, training someone to perform specific tasks is (in My mind) very different than training someone in attitude or deameanour
<canplay> perhaps not a 'set method' but there must be many variations that we can share :-)
<Sardaukar> to perform a certain task , there is the , tell show, do with , then let them do alone method which is effective
* Kilted_One thinks that if one is not "submissive" then no amount of training will make them submissive. "Training' is the art of bringing out what is naturally there to start with in a manner that suits the parties involved
<BernieRoehl> For example... if I want someone to always set My table a certain way, that's a task that can be taught in the manner that Sardaukar describes
<Sardaukar> That is true KO but to perform a task such as Bernies "table setting" is what I was refering to
<BernieRoehl> Training someone to speak in a particular way, or to have a certain attitude towards service, or to adopt a specific "slave persona" is more complex
* Kilted_One winks at Sardaukar and asks him to read the second part of the last posting.....I agree but it has to be done in a manner that is acceptable for both parties
<Blu-DOM> Agrees with KO about acceptable for both...Very important
* Sardaukar nods
* BernieRoehl agrees as well
<dalian> how do you mean "slave persona" Bernie?
<canplay> with any form of training,,i feel i must know consequences for not doing a good job,, and consistancy is very important
* canplay or rewards for doing a good job :-)
<BernieRoehl> Good question, dalian. It sort of ties in with the concept of "short leash" versus "long leash" -- when a submissive is on a short leash, a certain rigid set of protocols might apply. Some people describe that as a "slave persona".
<Blu-DOM> Consistancy a must...Without ...the submissive being trained is left with confusion....Reward and she learns quickly to be consistant herself
<Sardaukar> yes, canplay, I agree with that, but if the task is something new, I also think patience is something to be considered as well
<dalian> so the formal guidelines are specifically laid out then...helps keep focus
<canplay> agrees Sardaukar
<Galadan> based on the number of times "patience" has been mentioned already, it would seem that is a definite necessity in training, no matter what form it is..
<fantasin{SR}> I believe the the guidelines are generally laid out in negotiations dalian, being told what is expected... then agreeing to accept those limitations and expectations
<Sardaukar> it may sound corny, but I prefer the training stage set out in Business when training a new task...High support High praise, High prasie low support, low praise low support
<ananse> pavlov's conditioning?
<Sardaukar> thus this does not leave the sub in a quandrie how they are performing and lets them build their confidence
* canplay has been conditioned with pavlovs theory (plus variations)
<ananse> hey; it's classic, and it works
* Kilted_One wonders if canplay's "variations" was the "Penhouse" version?? ;))
<BernieRoehl> Are there any unusual techniques that anyone here has used, or had used on them?
<Sardaukar> very similar ananse, but the rewards will not com from the Dom/me per say but from themselves in know that they are performing the task correctly and their own self esteem tends to reward them
* canplay shrugs,, has never heard of Penhouse version
<dalian> so what would be a suitable training regimen for someone who is very new?
<ananse> unusual is open to interpretation, Bernie
<ananse> :)
* BernieRoehl smiles "true"
<Blu-DOM> Good question to bring up dalian
<ananse> basic positive reinforcement, yes?
<BernieRoehl> Yes, good question, dalian
<ananse> reward for good behaviour, and shame for naughty -- that's pretty basic
<ananse> (in answer to dalian)
<ananse> (sorry, still getting the hang of irc)
<BernieRoehl> Shame is perhaps a bit strong, ananse. In My experience, a tiny amount of criticism goes a *long* way with most submissives.
<Blu-DOM> Introduced slowly
* `vixie nods in agreement with Bernie
<BernieRoehl> Many are so eager to please that even the slightest hint of dissatisfaction with their performance gets magnified in their mind.
<ananse> my vocabulary is suffering from too much sugar intake -- criticism is what i meant. not like rubbing the dog's nose in the mess, but softer
<Blu-DOM> Agrees totally with Bernie....At times the disappointment felt from the smallest critism can effect deeply upon the submissive...Have experienced that result
<ananse> me too
<Galadan> "you are your own worst critic" as they say....if you know you didn something wrong...others dont' need to necessarily do more then mention it..
<Sardaukar> for someone "new" I would say positive reinforcement is a definate, but shame no, think more of strong guidence and correction , not to shame but to steer them in the right course
<canplay> had many seeds planted before being presented with a new scene,, talk,, pics,, then scene
<BernieRoehl> Often a simple pause, or a raised eyebrow will be enough to let them know they've made a mistake, and they'll rush to correct it.
<melody`> feels often a gesture or look can be as if not more affectibe than words..
<dalian> that definately works for me ;)
<ananse> i have an uppity sub -- he likes to be naughty so his training is more harsh -- is this a bad habit on his part?
* Sardaukar agree's with Bernie , silence speaks volumes
<canplay> ok, i am curious.. am i the only one that was not born to enjoy being spanked?
<ananse> no. :)
<canplay> i was trained to enjoy ,, actually crave *grins*
<melody`> smiles.. i admittedly adore it luv :)
<ananse> i love it, but my bottom claims to have sensitive skin :)
<Sardaukar> actually ananse, it is more of your own fault for allowing his "naughtiness" to interfere with training
<RON^^^> I am going to makee a very contradictory coment,, I don`t know know how to say it or word it,,there is no such thing as training per say,, only games because everything is consensual,, somebody deeply desires to please so hard that she is willing to do almost anything within her rules thatt you have consented to in the beginning along with her ,, please I am asking what is training becauses I am not understa
<Blu-DOM> Trained to associate a spanking with arrousal and mutual pleaure....her reward is in his pleasure of her Master
<ananse> is it a bad habit, though? his training persists, just harsher than i was doing before
<ananse> i suppose it's his way of telling me to "play harder"
<Sardaukar> has suggestion for ananse that may break him of this habit
<genigrrrl> if naughtiness is not corrected, then punishment is necessary no?
<ananse> please
<genigrrrl> punishment is NO fun by either sides
<Sardaukar> completely stop , send him on time out
<ananse> :)
<RON^^^> I can play a game of training but is it real
<ananse> it's as real as you make it
<BernieRoehl> It's as real as the two people make it, Ron
<canplay> Ron, training may not be a good term, but i was not born to enjoy flogging, i learned to enjoy
<Sweetone{LT}> what are we training for??
<Sweetone{LT}> what is the purpose of the training?
<ananse> to reflect well on our masters/mistresses?
<{OT}cariye> to please
<RON^^^> sweetone excatly my point
<RON^^^> training what did I buy a dog
<canplay> for me it is just a term used for my learning of something new
<canplay> like i said training may be poor choice or words,,but that is my meaning
<Blu-DOM> Or even learning to enjoy through reward of arousal
<Blu-DOM> Intriduced and associated to the arousal or pleasure of both....
<dalian> i look at training initially for someone new as to learn proper kneeling, verbal responses, body language, simple service...which later evolves into other things :)
<ananse> training is training: you train your child to practice the piano by repeated praise when they do...you train your dog to come on command...or your sub... :)
<RON^^^> OK sorry folks,,, I really missunderstood it is not the word but the the feeling
<Blu-DOM> Yes dalian...Evolves to something else is an excellent way of referring to this
<Sweetone{LT}> so you are equating the training with teaching then?
<OD_ivy> is the word important ?, whether training or teaching the object is that O/one learns
<melody`> I always found it as mutual. growing to learn more of each other expanding my own limits whilst he searches his own desires
<genigrrrl> train to perfect certain tasks?
<Sardaukar> Training is a form of both teaching and learning on B/both parts, to learn and express what is expected for tasks, and for occasions, it is a way of communicating the desires and wishes of both to achieve a harmoniess goal
<ananse> nice wording, Sardauker
<RON^^^> Learning is definatly not the point
<ananse> why not?
<RON^^^> with training
<canplay> thanks OD
<RON^^^> learning is something a Dom and sub doo together
<Sardaukar> there is a difference between training and playing and training is for learning , though it may be enjoyable at times, it is a tool
<canplay> ok can W/we learn more by sharing techniques then?
<BernieRoehl> There's another dimension to training that I don't think we've addressed yet. Sometimes training involves helping a submissive to make changes in herself which are of benefit to her.
<RON^^^> training per say is how the Dom wishes to cary out a sub`s desires mixed with his
* dalian agrees with Bernie
<`vixie> that can be the most nerve wracking training Bernie
<ananse> with or without her knowledge of the benefit, Bernie?
* fantasin{SR} nods to Bernie
<Sweetone{LT}> how is that training Bernie?
<BernieRoehl> With her knowledge and agreement, ananse
<Sweetone{LT}> the life journey is now reduced to being trained?
<Blu-DOM> The reward of gentle stroking...silent or through physical touch....Is a benefit....the submissive learns this through consistancy
<Sardaukar> life is one large clasroom
<BernieRoehl> For example, if a submissive has a bad habit of swearing all the time, and she wants to stop, the Dom can help her with that by providing reminders and (where appropriate) punishments for swearing.
<ananse> it's an expression of trust, Sweetone
<genigrrrl> :P Bernie
<BernieRoehl> In a sense, it becomes a form of biofeedback
* BernieRoehl smiles at genigrrrl
<starkicker> as long as he keeps the bar of soap handy lol
<OD_ivy> and what of the training of One's self...the learning of control ?
<Blu-DOM> Cant focus purely on the negative or punishment technique...the reward technique can hold equal results
* Kilted_One thinks that life is nothing more that a classroom Sweetone{LT}.....we are all being trained every day....and the day we dont learn anything is theday we die....
<ananse> control and rewrad go hand in hand -- if i am good and stay nicely in the cage all night, master may use me in the morning...
<BernieRoehl> That's the first step, OD_ivy -- to be at all effective, a Dom must master Himself (or Herself)
<Blu-DOM> Another excellent point OD
* Sardaukar Agree's with Bernie
<OD_ivy> agreed, Bernie, and as we teach, we learn, each feeds the other
<BernieRoehl> Exactly, OD_ivy
<Blu-DOM> Have learned with experience the reward of self discipline....In the form of a deeper respect and trust from my submissive
<Blu-DOM> Less control overs Onesself....And how can she respect and trust fully
* Sardaukar the old saying.."Think before You act or Say" is very pertinent to a Dom/me
<OD_ivy> yes Blu, and as with My releationship..each step was taken slowly, discussed then 'walked' thru
* canplay nods in agreement to Sardaukar
<BernieRoehl> Has anyone ever had any bad training experiences?
<RON^^^> Am I wrong ,,, but I believe that a sub can also train her Dom
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> yes
<Sardaukar> you are not wrong Ron
<OD_ivy> chuckles...the first time I spanked..learning to understand that the safe word might NOT be used
<Blu-DOM> Have been guilty of bad training....In the very beginning...Learned extremly quickly one time....Never again do I dwell without learning...
<BernieRoehl> In the sense that her responses are a guide to what works and what does, yes -- you're right, Ron
<Blu-DOM> Confidence...Not blind arrogance
<RON^^^> the first time I spaked was one of the most beautifull experiences of my life
<BernieRoehl> I'm reminded of a single-panel cartoon I saw a while back. Two lab rats are talking, and one says to the other "I've just about got this scientist trained. Everytime I press this bar, he feeds me!"
<ananse> :)
<ananse> how appropriate!
<OD_ivy> not for Me, during yes,, but I was not checking her condition as I should have..she was bruised when she should not have been
* bottoms_up38 smiles to Bernie.. agreeing whole heartedly with that cartoon ;)
<RON^^^> Bernie you hit the nail on the head
<fantasin{SR}> I have Bernie, I was with a Dom who thrived on punishment, liked to keep me off-kilter all the time, changed his mind constantly about the requirements of a specific task so that he could "punish" me under the guise of "training"
* canplay likes that cartoon :-)
<Sardaukar> reminds Me of the Friday paper...cartoon editorial some what changed for this Forum ..." Dom/me's Read Newspapers...not minds"
<OD_ivy> Bernie, well said
<bottoms_up38> lol Sardaukar .. cute ;)
<Blu-DOM> Very pavlov
<{OT}cariye> ewww fantasin{SR} :(
<canplay> yikes fantasin,, did you stay with Him long?
<fantasin{SR}> no canplay
<canplay> did you post His pic and profile on the Ehbc most wanted list?
<fantasin{SR}> there was never any praise.. he was constantly finding fault
<Blu-DOM> Abuse not training...Mind game you had no chance of winning
<fantasin{SR}> the desire to do the job properly diminished as I realized I would never do the task to his satisfaction
<RON^^^> To be a pervert (wrong word , but used to understand) if that is what the sub and Dom are into that is fine but things need to develop
<RON^^^> punishment is fun
<fantasin{SR}> punishment is NEVER "fun"
* fantasin{SR} laughs
<genigrrrl> punishment is NOT fun
<Sardaukar> Patience, Consistency, Listening, and Communcation, are the four Musts, when it comes to training
<bottoms_up38> lol
* {OT}cariye does not think punishment is fun
<ananse> Ron, i think you misunderstand -- punishment is good in moderation, but not without the addition of praise and affirmation as well
<RON^^^> punishment is fun is fun with me because it doesn`t exist
* bottoms_up38 agrees with Ron.. i have been so called punished once
<{OT}cariye> there is a difference between a spanking for punishment and one or play
<fantasin{SR}> when punishment becomes "fun" it ceases to be effective
<Blu-DOM> Punishment can have the same hurtful effect upon the Dom/me as the sub...Doesnt feel punishment is fun
<Blu-DOM> Exactly fantasin
* canplay waits for the argument of differences of punishment and discipline to erupt
<ananse> agree, fantasin
<genigrrrl> exactly Blu-DOM!!
<Sweetone{LT}> lol, canplay
<RON^^^> well then maybe I am on the wrong web site
<bottoms_up38> what is punishment then? i mean i punish myself in life when i dont do what needs to be done.. usually emotionally. NOT to do with D/s
<Blu-DOM> Good call cany....chuckles
<OD_ivy> if the Dom/me cannot 'feel' the punishment also it should not be given..
<ananse> to me, punishment is correction for a job not well done -- and it shouldn't really be fun.
<BernieRoehl> Punishment is a way of correcting misbehaviour (i.e. the violation of certain agreed-upon rules and standards)
<fantasin{SR}> punishment is not something that a Dom/me administers lightly... it does affect them too... and should never be given in anger
<BernieRoehl> It's quite different (in My opinion) from erotic pain, which can be pleasurable and (to use Ron's word) fun
* bottoms_up38 shrugs.. punishment has never been a part of my D/s per se. Other than how we punish ourselves when we feel we havent lived up to our own potential. sounds silly i guess
<tndrsub> and how would you differenciate discipline BernieRoehl
<canplay> i know of many that use Corporal Punishment as scenes.. i am sure that is what Ron is talking of(hopes she is correct)
<RON^^^> whaat is a Dom`s punishment or is the relationship not equal or two ways
<starkicker> hmm my ex Master when he was angry with me became very'
<starkicker> quiet, that was punishmeent for me
<starkicker> and i hated lol
<fantasin{SR}> I think we are regarding punishment as a tool for training in this particular discussion and how can it be used technique-wise to bring about the desired change in behavior or action
<starkicker> oops punishment
<`abi> it doesn't sound silly to me bottoms...I'm of the opinion that after the age of about 12 behaviour changes because you want it to ... punishment is a trapping of the lifestyle which we embrace or not as a ritual
* bottoms_up38 sits quietly and listens.. my thoughts quite different
<RON^^^> Berniee am I wrecking the topic
<BernieRoehl> Not at all, Ron!
<BernieRoehl> All points of view are valid here, and they provoke discussion
* bottoms_up38 smiles to abi... ahhhh i like how you worded that
<OD_ivy> starkicker....that is My most effect weapon
<genigrrrl> Bernie has an excellent example that He could use to explain :)
* BernieRoehl smiles at genigrrrl
<Chiaroscuro{a}> do tell
<BernieRoehl> Some time ago, I had a submissive who knew that she was not supposed to smoke inside My home
<genigrrrl> :)
<BernieRoehl> she could go outside, or into the garage
<starkicker> it works well OD :)
<BernieRoehl> One day she forgot, and we both understood that she had to be punished. That night, I had her sleep in the garage.
<Chiaroscuro{a}> oooo... nice one BernieRoehl
<genigrrrl> how did You suffer BernieRoehl?
* genigrrrl thought so to Chiaroscuro{a}
<RON^^^> But Bernie what if you smoked in her house
<BernieRoehl> It was a form of punishment that affected both of us, because I would much rather have had her beside me in bed that night.
<BernieRoehl> I was deprived of the pleasure of her company, her body, her warmth, so I suffered as well from the punishment.
<RON^^^> or am I missing the pouint of the Dom punishing the sub relationship
<genigrrrl> You had to deny yourself that pleasure to teach her a lesson
<genigrrrl> HaHa!!
<BernieRoehl> Exactly, genigrrrl
<BernieRoehl> (I don't smoke, Ron. If I did, I would certainly agree not to smoke where others didn't want it)
<RON^^^> Bernie I sexually enjoy control
<Sweetone{LT}> lol, well, not really...he could have found another method of punishment...and not been deprived himself <g>
<genigrrrl> such as Sweetone{LT}?
<Blu-DOM> YES.Denile of self pleasure by the Dom is an excellent technique..As the sub gains great pleasure from her ability to pleasure her Dom/me
<RON^^^> If I made her sleep in the garage it would make me feel in charge
<BernieRoehl> Exactly, Blu-DOM -- she felt very bad about not being there to please Me that night, and she knew I was suffering too and felt bad about it. It made her realize how much it mattered to Me.
<RON^^^> and love her even more if she obeyed me
<fantasin{SR}> for me... something I'm not very proud of is that I used to interrupt Master before he was done talking, the punishment to correct this was that I had to wear a clothespin on my tongue for a specified period of time when I interrupted him
<^trufriend> the impression i am getting here is that in order to serve a punishment, a submissive must be treated like a child
<RON^^^> Bernie I hear you
<`vixie> ouch fantasin{SR}
<RON^^^> tru noot a """"""""fucking""""""""" chance
<starkicker> ochie fantasin
<^trufriend> submissives are the children and the Dominants are the parents??
<fantasin{SR}> it certainly taught me not to interrupt him though
<RON^^^> no tru
* bottoms_up38 continues to listen
<^trufriend> i didn't deserve to swarn at ron
* Sardaukar finds it that when the need for "punishment" arises, it is the failing of both the Dom/me and the sub, the sub for not following direction, and the Dom/me for not making it consice that the behaviour will not be tolerated
<dalian> well put Sardaukar
<BernieRoehl> I like the idea of a "punishment that fits the crime".
<RON^^^> I doo not believe in punishment per say
<BernieRoehl> The clothespin example is a good one, fantasin{SR}
<Blu-DOM> I recall the first punishment I gave to a certain special suby...My artistic talent was questioned openly within the prescence of O/others....she was to beshaved artistically that night by me....she was very excited that I wanted to shave her in the exact pattern I desired....Her punishment was to shave herself and would not be able to pleasure us both by wearing my artistic shaving...she was greatly disappointed
<^trufriend> a definite lack of communication in a relationship Sardaukar, whether it be vanilla, bdsm or otherwise.....
<RON^^^> but if that is part of a relationshipp between two people theen let it be
* canplay has never questioned artistcal talents again *smiles*
<Blu-DOM> I found the result of this technique...Mutual disappointment had the best results in form of punishment
<bottoms_up38> can i ask why a sub wants punishment? *looking at the subs*
<Blu-DOM> chuckles @ canplay
<melody`> its a matter of choice from step one,, agreed expectations.. not dictated much like a child would be
<bottoms_up38> or should i say.. why a sub allows punishment?
<Sweetone{LT}> it is a form of absolution for the sub who has displeased her Master
<melody`> some times sis a sub needs the release.. the tears.. too be freed taken over that edge
<RON^^^> bottoms don`t be silly ,,you know why subs want punishment and it upsets me
<canplay> i don't want ! i just deserved to be shown in a specail manner that what i did was not acceptable
* bottoms_up38 looks at Ron... not sure to be confused or angry *smiles*
<`abi> for me bottoms it is a reinforcement of the dynamic ... it's not what causes the change in behaviour, but it reminds me why I want to change it
<Blu-DOM> RON...If you look at the deeper emotional aspect of the punishment...she will punish herself emotionally as well knowing she has been displeasing to her Master
* this`lil`kitten is with canplay on this one
<^trufriend> no ron...why do subs want punishment?! do tell us
<bottoms_up38> if a sub uses it to be absolved or for release.. i dont see that as punishment *shrug*
<melody`> it gives absolution.. otherwsie she may let it eat at her indefinately
<RON^^^> tru when I said punishment in that line all I ment was a sore ass,, because as I said earlier punishment is not for me
<Blu-DOM> A submissive gains pleasure in pleasing...she will strive to perfect this if the proper steps are taken...repeated failure in a certain area needs increased punishment or discipline with explanation
<fantasin{SR}> I don't "want" punishment bottoms_up38, I want only to please Master, if I fail I punish myself knowing that he's disappointed in me, but if he chooses to punish me further it's worse because he reinforces that he's disappointed enough to warrant bringing my attention to it further... but once it's done... it's done, there is no re-visiting that particular infraction
* bottoms_up38 smiles.. ok ok, maybe i will keep out of this one.. as i dont understand this concept ;)
* Sardaukar been told the worse thing said to a sub was " I am dissapointed in you" was told that was the harshest thing ever said by Me
<Blu-DOM> YESS....Sardaukar.,...Thise words are extremly powerful when adressing a submissive
* BernieRoehl takes note of the time
<BernieRoehl> Well, the formal part of our discussion is drawing to a close
<RON^^^> during free time ,,if a sub said I did this wrong I would be dissapointed with myself
<Blu-DOM> A submissive needs to be pleasing...to know this....Taking this away is powerful
<BernieRoehl> By all means, continue the discussion! However, I'm about to close the log.
<Sardaukar> finds that a sub , will punish him/her self far worse with a commentary as such than any physical thing that a Dom could provide
<BernieRoehl> Any closing thoughts?
<RON^^^> agree with Sardauker
<canplay> thanks Bernie for a job well done , once again :-)
<fantasin{SR}> that training techniques are personal and tailored to each relationship
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, canplay :-)
<Blu-DOM> Thanx Bernie
<RON^^^> good topic Bernie
<Sardaukar> : ThankYou Bernie
<BernieRoehl> My pleasure, Blu-DOM. Thanks, Ron, Sardaukar!
* Kilted_One that he has "heard' a lot of different strong viewpoints on the subject and all are not right or wrong
<bottoms_up38> if i treated someone wrong.. a friend or whoever. Or if i did something i feel i shouldnt have, etc... i punish myself. In day to day life.
<fantasin{SR}> yes, thank you for hosting this discussion Bernie <warm smile>
<BernieRoehl> I'm going to head offline for a bit to process and upload the discussion log. Should be back soon...
<starkicker> Interesting topic, ty Bernie
<Blu-DOM> Take care all...AM off for the night
<bottoms_up38> thanks Bernie *hugs* .. you are a patient person ;)
* BernieRoehl smiles
<^trufriend> Sardaukar, You are quite right with those words....."I am dissapointed in you" is a v-e-r-y powerful phrase
<Galadan> 10 pm..time for my shift....goede nacht all
<BernieRoehl> Thanks again, and see you all soon....
<RON^^^> likes Kilted One he is smart
<fantasin{SR}> thanks for your hospitality everyone :)