October 20, 2002 EhBC Online Discussion

<ModBot> [This message is automatically generated] Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until af ter 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remai [This message is automatically generated] Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until af ter 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remai n anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Too You ng, Too Old... Age Issues in BDSM". The moderator is MistressTiia.
<becky> wb fiestyone
<fiestyone> thank you becky
<MsMaTiia> thank you "bot"
<fiestyone> and rehi jl
<arhiannah> hi fiestyone
<MsMaTiia> lol
<pandora``> hi arhiannah
<MsMT> Age Issues ...... Do you believe that age is an issue in any BDSM relationship?
<arhiannah> i do MsMT
<MsMT> why? ...
<john-lennon> its an issue if you make it one
<john-lennon> i think
<scrufpup> it can be...
* becky smiles... MistressSarcastica
<arhiannah> because i find *most* guys my age (33 years young) to be...ermmm...abrupt
* john-lennon nods at MistressSarcastica
<MsMT> There are Tops who like younger subs and there are younger subs who like older Tops .... but...
<arhiannah> hi MistressSarcastica
<arhiannah> oops...ignore my welcomes
<MsMT> Is it because the "play" does not determine age? Or is it that if the relationship "works" age makes no differeence?
<arhiannah> *g*
<arhiannah> no..i've always been attracted to older men
<scrufpup> some people equate age with experience when it isn't always the case.
<john-lennon> yes most people say more age is more experiance
* MsMT But if you are looking for a 24/7?
<Sweet1`> it can be equated with authority too
<arhiannah> i don't know for sure if it's an age related thing....i just don't find men my own age or younger very interesting...
<kneels> i agree arhiannah
<jewel`{F}> age does bring life experience not always lifestyle experience
<kneels> but then i suppose it is obvious i like the daddy types
<MsMT> and some Mistresses like the younger subs
<john-lennon> age doesnt always bring life experiance
<arhiannah> i would love to have 24/7.....but that's not possible or likely with the one i'm with now...he doesn't love me, but i knew that from the beginning
<MsMT> you are right ... john-l .... we have all met mature young people and immature older people
<MsMT> Do you think the age issue is different? .... there are vanilla people who also like age differences
<Fyre{j}> I find that the differences that age factor into a developing a relationship are based on finding common frames of reference, whether cultural like music or movie, to expectations in the relationship
<Fyre{j}> its not specific to the lifestyle
<arhiannah> not for me Ms Tiia...in any relationship i've ever had, it's been with someone substantially older...
<jen-afk> i think alot depends on what you expect to get out of a relationship
<scrufpup> sometimes an age difference in a BDSM relationship can also signal a difference in what is considered SSC
<jen-afk> if you are looking for a long term one, i believe it is just as difficult in BDSM as in vanilla, to work around the generation differences
<MsMT> But the lifestyle embraces all ages, no?
<jewel`{F}> i would hope that the lifestyle would embrace all those old enough to give informed consent
<john-lennon> so far i've been greeted warmly
<john-lennon> so i think it does
<Fyre{j}> sure we're one big happy family without any critics in our midst (looks up for the impending lightning strike)
<Fyre{j}> just read the mailing list on any given day
<jen{SE}> *lol*
<MsMT> Has anyone here ever felt "rejected" because of age?
<Fyre{j}> whoops I said that out loud
<somebody_I_know> YES lol
<john-lennon> i have lol
<john-lennon> allot... lol
<scrufpup> i would go as far as to say that our lifestly does embrace all ages... but a 18yr Dom would have a hard time gaining respect
<jen{SE}> can we define what we are talking about in terms of the discussion, my understanding was not to be too old, too young but age differences
<jen{SE}> in relationships?
<jewel`{F}> i don't think that being judged because of age differences is as common in the lifestyle as it is in the nilla world
<john-lennon> i understand why some people sort of feel weird around me
<john-lennon> they have kids my age, i'd feel weird too
<MsMT> Please define "weird" john
<john-lennon> they dont know how to act around me i guess?
<MsMT> oh heck ... most of the people I know are my kids age ... my kids are 36, 34 .....lol
<S_W> to be honest - my sub (jess aka somebody I know) and I have been together now for so long I really don't even think about it anymore and have not for quite a while (I'm, 16 years older)
<S_W> 37/21 - no big deal
<somebody_I_know> 21 5/6
<jewel`{F}> scrufpup if that 18 year old Dominant was openly asking questions and willing to learn from other Dominants though not just coming in and do the "I am a Dominant you will serve Me" that i have met many older new to the lifestyle people, i would respect the 18 year old more so
<kneels> same with Max and i...16 years difference..but..it does play a big part in our relationship..we definatly have a daddy/girl relationship...but it just evolved into that naturally due to the age differences and our personalities/needs
<scrufpup> true, a young Dominant who asks questions and is willing to learn gains respect... but at first glance, they maybe disregarded because of their youth
<S_W> as for how others may see it - we don't care anymore either
<john-lennon> i know about being disregarded because of my age
<MsMT> As long as it works, right?
<john-lennon> in my life
<kneels> i think it is much more excepted to have our type of relationship though than a younger Dom/me...not sure why..i personally wouldnt judge it..but being so far removed from my needs..i just wouldnt understand it
<jen{SE}> *smiles* and ponders my thoughts on what can be good about an age difference, i worry, what will happen when i get older, the body will not handle what it can when young
<jewel`{F}> but that is not just in the lifestyle is it john-lennon? just in everyday life as well
<jen{SE}> so if the Dom older, might work better *lol*
<john-lennon> yes in everyday life
* `abi thanks kneels for not judging it
<kneels> i have no right or reason to abi..it doesnt effect me
* somebody_I_know noticed it more in the scene 2 years ago than ever in real life.
<somebody_I_know> er, lol "real life" = everyday life lol
<somebody_I_know> typing during a phone conversation is a bad idea, sorry
<MsMT> If I may offer my own experience in looking for my lifetime BDSM partner, I assumed because of my energy and my youthful outlook on life that I would need a sub in his late 30's, but SURPRISE ... I found the "sub of my dreams" and he is 6 years older than me
<somebody_I_know> there is pressure to prove yourself, and the younger you are, the more pressure there is
<kneels> i think that most of us are not judgemental as long as no one is getting hurt..if i saw an 18 year old with a 50 year old guy..yeah..that might squick me
<somebody_I_know> I don't get that in everyday life
<kneels> well..only because i would worry about her..i mean..in that he may be taking advantage of a wayword girl
<john-lennon> so if i was with a 50 year old Domme people would say it was wrong?
<MsMT> no
<MsMT> im my opinon
<scrufpup> not in my opinion, either.
<MsMT> If it works, it works
<S_W> taking advantage of a wayward girl? How 12shocking
<kneels> no john-lennon...it isnt my place to judge you..i would say it might squick me..which is my right to how i feel
<john-lennon> would you worry about me?
<Sweet1`> generational rule of thumb...half the age of the older one + 10 years is the min age the younger one is recommended for lifes experiences and understanding
<kneels> yes i think so
<jewel`{F}> squick is more a "gives me the shivers" kind of thing john-lennon
<john-lennon> :)
<jen{SE}> i am not being judgemental here, cause as has been said, it makes no difference to me, but i have never known a relationship with too great of a age difference going long term, short term yes, but not long term...
<jen{SE}> the generations issues will always surface
<Sweet1`> agreed
<john-lennon> yep it will
<S_W> define "short term"?
<shadoe{S}> is Tia here?
<somebody_I_know> and "too great" too?
<MsMT> Yes, it is , Tiia
<somebody_I_know> :)
<shadoe{S}> ahhhh.. hello from Himself and i!
<MsMT> Yes, it is I, Tiia
<john-lennon> its all personal oppinons somebody_I_know i think
<Fyre{j}> its human nature to question other's motives when a situation seems unbalanced, is it correct or right, that's part of the tolerance that we profess to share as a community. I would suggest that a watchful eye would be cast upon the relationship, however it is no one's place to judge the correctness or compatability of that relationship
<artaith> agreed Fyre{j}
<S_W> no - "I have never known somebody to..." - that's not an opinion - an observation perhaps - but not an opinion.
<scrufpup> how would a generation issue surface in a relationship based on part time play (not 24/7)?
<kneels> well..what do you consider too great a difference then jen?..like do you feel Max and i are too far apart? or you feel the 50/18 thing is too far apart
<somebody_I_know> I'm just wondering exactly what kneels just stated
<MsMT> It works for movie stars and rich men
<jen{SE}> did not say it was an opinion i posted it as an observation ....
<Fyre{j}> that's a hard walk to walk for anyone, not everyone is capable of holding their opinions to themselve whether in or out of the lifestyle
<jen{SE}> part time play is different from 7/24
<Symmetre[t]> does it really matter to anyone other than the people directly concerned?
<kneels> i agree with the observation jen..but i am wondering where we draw the line with what we feel comfortable with seeing
<artaith> it shouldn't Symmetre[t]
<jen{SE}> but it would be interesting to see statistics
<kneels> i meant ages somebody_I_know
<somebody_I_know> jen - I'm just wondering what kind of age diff you're talking about and what would constitute a long term relationship, that's all. 5 years/2 years? 20 years/15 years?
<MsMT> When age is concerned ... does it really matter whether the relatinship is Bdsm or vanilla?
<jen{SE}> long term is going the distance.. it is not 6 months to a year, i am not saying there are not some success stories, but i believe they are few
<Sweet1`> generational rule of thumb...half the age of the older one + 10 years is the min age the younger one is recommended for lifes experiences and understanding
<john-lennon> i think its more of a matter in vanilla
<john-lennon> but still happens in bdsm
<jen{SE}> why is it different in vanilla, in 7/24, my Dom, is also my life partner, we need to have more in common than BDSM
<Fyre{j}> age is one area that its easy to cross compare in and outside the lifestyle ... age isn't an unknown in the vanilla world
<shadoe{S}> actually.. in a Muslim society it is half the age plus 7 years
<john-lennon> society in general doesntl ike big age diffs
<john-lennon> i think
<kneels> fails Sweet1`'s test along with S_W and somebody_I_know
<john-lennon> vanilla society doesnt like big age differences
<Sweet1`> we are part of that society john-lennon
<somebody_I_know> yup
<john-lennon> we are
<kneels> just squeeks by on shadoe{S} test...so do you think i should convert and become a muslim then?
<S_W> lol - if vanilla society means "mothers" - I agree
<john-lennon> but we form a sub society
<john-lennon> the bdsm
<shadoe{S}> how old are you kneels
<scrufpup> i meet Sweet1`'s test by 1 yr.
<somebody_I_know> lol
<kneels> i think age differences of a little bit older are more accepted here between a younger sub and a Dom
<kneels> 30 shadoe{S}
<jewel`{F}> i think that outside the lifestyle there is more judgement of the age difference, partly because we in the lifestyle are (or hopefully) more tolerant of others "kinks"
<S_W> true
<kneels> i agree jen{SE}
<fiestyone> age difference is a kink??
<jewel`{F}> to some it is
<jen{SE}> personally, i don't care what others do, like i said this is talking, my ex husband and my Dominant were and are older than me..
<fiestyone> wow.......
<artaith> and kneels, what is the acceptance level for older sub/younger Dom?
<jewel`{F}> some are into age play
<Symmetre[t]> every relationship I've ever had has been with someone significantly younger ... I don;t know if its a kink or not ... just seems to have worked out that way in my case
<kneels> but i think to have a fairly large gap between a girl and her daddy Dom in bdsm is more acceptable then in vanilla life
<S_W> age play is - it may or may not come with the age diff
<Fyre{j}> ok, so 17 and 25 is frowned upon but 42 and 50 is ok?
<somebody_I_know> well, SW and I share a lot more in common than the scene - a home for example lol
<fiestyone> yes..but age play can be done regardless of real age.....if the mind set is right
<kneels> no idea artaith..like i said..i know what i would be comfortable doing or even seeing
<john-lennon> yes Fyre{j} it is
<john-lennon> sadly
<jen{SE}> there is no acceptance level....
<Fyre{j}> yes j-l I know, I'm a parent
<jen{SE}> the acceptance has to come from the two ppl playing not anyone else
<kneels> 17 and 25 for what Fyre{j}?
<artaith> i have found from personal experience, that the oder female sub/ younger male Dom combination incurrs some rather nasty commentary
<Fyre{j}> age differnces in a relationship
<jen{SE}> *lol*, everything we do in this "community" incurrs some nasty commentary,,,
<Symmetre[t]> lol jen{SE}
<S_W> how would you know artaith?
<artaith> lol, true enough... but i certainly didn't expect it from my peers
<artaith> lol, bless Yer heart, S_W *g*
<`abi> I haven't encountered that artaith .... well, except from kneels ... and she thinks it's cute ;)
<artaith> but no, i'm going to be 40 rather soon
<kneels> i dont think it is right for any 50 year old guy to be with a 18 year old girl..i think that is too big of a gap whether it is in bdsm or not...am i being judgemental? i suppose so..and i certainly wouldnt go out of my way to be hurtful about it..but..i also will be honest with my feelings..and my gut says that girl has troubles
<Fyre{j}> 8 years old when you are 17 is almost half a lifetime .... 8 years when you are 42 is just a bad stretch
<john-lennon> you keep saying young girl older guy
<john-lennon> just say persons
<Symmetre[t]> I don;t buy that at all. maturity varies from one person to the next
<artaith> agreed, Symmetre[t]
<kneels> lol..no abi..i think YOU are cute
<jen{SE}> i think it should be older woman and younger male *lol*, you know what they say about the female sex drive when we hit 40
<john-lennon> lol
<artaith> my thoughts exactly, jen{SE} *g* it certainly works for me *g*
<Fyre{j}> go over nicely ... you talking about going over your knee or what?
<jen{SE}> :-)
<john-lennon> i dont have a problem with a Domme thats 18 or 80 as long as they know what they are doign
<kneels> so you think a 50 year old guy could have alot in common with an 18 year old Symmetre[t] ?
* Symmetre[t] subscribes to the idea of older man/younger woman ..... keeps the guy young
<Symmetre[t]> kneels .... I know a 52 year old guy who is less mature than a 23 year old mutual friend
<kneels> but do you want to marry/be collared to an 80 year old john-lennon..or just play?
<S_W> 2 20 year olds would go over nicely here too 3*ahem*
* john-lennon shrugs depends on the person
<jen{SE}> *lol*
* Symmetre[t] wants an 18 year old for Christmas
<artaith> one for each cane, S_W?
* john-lennon wraps himself for Symmetre[t]
<john-lennon> merry christmas
<kneels> i am sorry Symmetre[t]..i respectfully cant agree with it..i would think they both have issues
<kneels> gheesh S_W..you perv!
<S_W> cane in my eight hand (I'm left handed) = BAD idea
<Symmetre[t]> um ... john? Nice gesture ..... but not what I had in mind ;)
<S_W> er, right
<john-lennon> lol
<artaith> lol
<jewel`{F}> well Symmetre[t] *giggles* You didn't specify gender Sir
<Symmetre[t]> kneels ... good for you! That's my whole point. What works for some people won't cut it with others.
* Symmetre[t] clarifies his earlier babbling ... I want Britney for Christmas .... nakkey and laid out on a nice serving tray
<jen{SE}> i know a couple who he is 48 she is 24, and i have to agree they both have issues, the fit a need for each other, but not sure it is a healthy need, but again they are happy so c'est la vie
<artaith> my thinking is this.... it is not easy to meet someone that meshes with ones needs/expectations.... what does it matter if there is a decade in age difference?
<john-lennon> or 3
<john-lennon> or 4.... lol
<Symmetre[t]> if it works for the people involved and they're happy ... well, then they're lucky and God bless
<artaith> exactly, Symmetre[t]
<Symmetre[t]> a very good friend of mine is a 52 year old femdomme .... her boy toy is *cough* 31. Most people will never be that happy, sorry to say
<Symmetre[t]> for them it works
<kneels> i do not think there is anything wrong with a decade..maybe even 2...but you get up to more than that..squick
* MsMT I know of two "vanilla couples" with over 20 year age differences ... older women, younger men ... and the mariages are now at 30 years .... bite that statistic if you can
<artaith> i have enough problems dealing with my own issues...i certainly am not going to bust someone about my "percieved" issues with them
<kneels> wow MsMT..good for them
<MsMT> yep ... and the ladies are still happy
* `abi thinks that the salient point about age and BDSM is that you can carry around a cane without anyone batting an eye ... this has to be seen as progress
<jen{SE}> *lol*
* Symmetre[t] is more than delighted with his sexy subbie, 9 years his junior
<artaith> lol
<Symmetre[t]> still want Britney for Christmas tho
<kneels> oh pooh Symmetre[t]..9 years is nothing
* Fyre{j} remembers meeting the wife of a friend ... I thought it was his mother ...... they are a wonderful couple, so I learned my lesson about first impressions and snap judgements
<artaith> i draw the line at "seeing" someone my 14 year old thinks is "hot" *g*
<Symmetre[t]> lmao
<Symmetre[t]> my 14 year old son thinks tori is hot ...... needless to say, we had a discussion about that
<john-lennon> whos tori?
<Symmetre[t]> my sub, john
<john-lennon> ahh
<john-lennon> i see
<artaith> rofl
<Fyre{j}> the [t] after Symmetre
<Symmetre[t]> was basically .... get your own kid
<john-lennon> LOL
<jewel`{F}> lol
<S_W> (it's when He thinks your 14 year old is hot you got REAL problems)
<artaith> fortuantely, my daughter and i do *not* have the same tastes
* Fyre{j} passes john-lennon the secret decoder ring
<john-lennon> such a nice father
* jewel`{F} thinks about telling her daughter to get her own
<Fyre{j}> hehehe
<Symmetre[t]> lol ... I am a good dad, john-lennon .... but he can get his own chicks
<artaith> lol... hasn't happened yet, S_W...Diva has aa mouth like her momma *g*
<Fyre{j}> 43 and 9 ... now I'm in chit
<jewel`{F}> lmao
<Symmetre[t]> scary thing is ... the lil pecker DOES get chicks ..... grey hairs are a-growin now
<MsMT> roflmao
<jewel`{F}> now that is a real younger Domme older sub thing
<artaith> lol... maybe wwe should hook our offspring up, Symmetre[t]...get them offn our backs?
<john-lennon> hmm
<Symmetre[t]> and onto who's back, artaith?? lmao
* john-lennon starts a baby sitting buisness
<artaith> roflmao!
<Symmetre[t]> yes I want you to meet my inlaws .... artaith ... say hi to
* MsMT I have known older male subs who prefer very young Dommes .... figure that one out
* Fyre{j} is waiting for the day his daughter's first suitor arrives .... I'm going to meet the lil hormone influenced beggar with a 12foot bullwhip in my hand .... is that agism or or what?
<john-lennon> LOL
<john-lennon> Fyre{j} thats mean
* jewel`{F} knows very well that Fyre{j} can use that whip too
<artaith> nope... Noc has offered to sharpen His swords on my front door step, in order to greet the prospective dates *g*
<john-lennon> i wish i dont have daughters
* Symmetre[t] can see Fyre{j} is a graduate of the Al Bundy school of parenting .... used to love it when he beat up Kelly's dates
* Fyre{j} has digressed the conversation
<john-lennon> what ever Fyre{j} does we tend to follow him
* Symmetre[t] will be some proud when my son bags a cute babe
<MsMT> Please .... let's get back to the topic ... even though we are having fun with this
<jewel`{F}> i think that over all age is a state of mind and that what ever works for those in the relationship and makes them happy is all that matters
* Fyre{j} stands beside MsMT (with the whip) "what She says"
<MsMT> Age difference ..... let us put aside age play for a minute .. and think again about age differences in the relationship
<Symmetre[t]> here here, jewel`{F}
<kneels> well..for me i like the 16 year age difference with us..i like daddy Doms..we never actually age play..he just is that type of figure in my life
<john-lennon> dont judge a book by its cover?
<john-lennon> thats my only addage..
<S_W> generalizations are often true - just not always
<somebody_I_know> like S_W said - age is just not a factor in our relationship.
<Symmetre[t]> interesting observation kneels .... I see that too with us, to an extent
<scrufpup> i agree with j-l
<artaith> and i did have a Dom that was older than i, and i found that the control was all the wrong sort...but that was a long time ago, and i haven't met anyone older that can meet my goals
<Fyre{j}> I believe theare are two things ....... our personal beliefs of what we find comfort in believing are just that our beliefs, we need to be cognizant that they may not be shared, and that its really up to the individuals involved to define their relationship age notwithstanding
<MsMT> interesting
<kneels> see..with us..age IS a factor..one i love that is a comforting part of our relationship for me
<somebody_I_know> There are very few people my age or younger that I can relate to on the same level. They're almost all living with their parents and worried about where to party this weekend. I'm raising a 3 1/2 year old and thinking about what groceries to get for the weekend. I could NOT see myself being in a relationship with anyone under the age of 30
<artaith> *smiles*
* MsMT and is it not all about love, caring, sharing and being happy?
<somebody_I_know> yes it is MsMT
<Sweet1`> why does it squick you for others who might be younger than you looking for the same thing kneels?
<MsMT> Is anyone logging this? Just in case the "ghost" robot misses it?
<Sweet1`> yes
* jewel`{F} has her logs on
<MsMT> thank you Sweet 1
<kneels> because..i think there is a huge difference between me at 18 and me at 30 Sweet1`...i know what i need..i am not saying all 18 year olds dont..i am just saying i would worry abou them
<`abi> nice logs jewel ;)
<artaith> i think kneels issue, if i may, is one of a great difference...18/50
* jewel`{F} grins at `abi
* Fyre{j} edits jewel`s logs
<somebody_I_know> lol - kneels, *I* think that there is a great differences between 18 year olds and *me*
<shadoe{S}> from the age of 18 to the age of thirty. i'd had two children. .. been married.. divorced..lived in a ton of different places
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to MistressTiia for moderating, and to everyone who participated.