October 17 1999 EhBC Online Discussion

<BernieRoehl> Here's the automatic message I've just set up for the channel...
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion.
Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm.
Also note that the discussion is being logged.  If you wish to say something,
but remain anonymous, you should change your nick.  Tonight's discussion topic
is "The Roses and the Thorns -- Romance and D/s".  The moderator tonight is
kashina.  Enjoy the discussion!
<BernieRoehl> Well, since kashina seems to be delayed, I'll fill in until she arrives.
<BernieRoehl> Welcome, everyone!
<BernieRoehl> Tonight's topic is "The Roses and the Thorns -- Romance and D/s".
* TANAS wonders who selected the topic.
<vixen{KO}> Screw The Roses.....Give Me The Thorns
* TANAS never tried screwing roses for that very reason - too thorny.
<BernieRoehl> As an opening question... are romance and D/s incompatible in any way?
* Kilted_One is not screwing any rose bushes
<TANAS> Unless I'm really thorny...or is that horny?
<vixen{KO}> oh right.....that's a book.
<TANAS> I have an answer!
<TANAS> Yes.
<TANAS> :)
<BernieRoehl> Go on, TANAS.
* TANAS likes participating.
<KarenD> I don't believe that they are incompatible. I've been there....been romanced off my feet by a Dom
* Kilted_One is there right now still
<BernieRoehl> And in what ways is romance different in D/s relationship?  Or is it different?
<TANAS> THE QUESTION asked if they are incompatiple in ANY way - some people, as a general rule, are incompatible with romance, hence, I answer YES.
<TANAS> In WHAT ways?  In many ways - particularly the gifts exchanged.
* shimmer`` ponders "gifts"
<KarenD> oh. boy. the gift theory.
* TANAS has a question! In what way is THIS chat room, different than any other chat room?
* vixen{KO} opts to drop the gift line of comments for the discussion
* TANAS has an answer!
<TANAS> Because we need to DISCUSS particular issues to have conversation, rather than a free flowing dialogue.
* TANAS likes gifts.
* TANAS gives all the women in the room nipple clamps or leather and stilletos, depending.
<vixen{KO}> as do i Tanas, but we don't need to rehash that line of chat...it doesn't go anywhere.
<Kilted_One> now now now KarenD, TANAS was most likely not privy to all the previous discussions on the "gift theory" and therefore wouldnt know that we have beaten it to death several times ;)
<shimmer``> vixen and KO ... you two seem to have a pretty awesome relationship - i assume there is romance there ... how does it work for you?
<TANAS> Vixen: Does this chat ever go anywhere?
* TANAS ponders gift theory.
* vixen{KO} blushes....
<TANAS> Einsteinian?
*`abi:@#BDSM-kw* feel free vixen
<TANAS> No, no.
<TANAS> Neils Bohr?
<shimmer``> Tanas - you may not be interested in the topic .. but i am .. so please - cut it out
<KarenD> TANAS, this is a formal discussion. It happens once a week here, if you don't like it, please come back during the informal chat times...
<TANAS> no, no...
<vixen{KO}> indeed, shimmer``....Master has always been the romantic One....but then that is His nature.
* {autumn^w}_U_ agrees with shimmer
* TANAS apologizes.
<shimmer``> if i may, KO Sir ... how does that work for you?
<Kilted_One> I think it works as well as any other relationship would work...
<vixen{KO}> thank you Tanas
<vixen{KO}> thank you's by the way
<Kilted_One> it depends on the two individuals forming the relationship and what they bring to the table and how they work at it
<shimmer``> i know some subs see romance as a sign of weakeness in their Dom (more's the pity) ... i've never understood that
<{autumn^w}_U_> how, if there is a difference does it differ do you think from a vanilla relationship?
<vixen{KO}> true, Master.....if you are a romantic by nature then it just comes out in lifestyle part of the relationship
<shimmer``> weakness, too
<{autumn^w}_U_> I agree shimmer....romance does not equal weakness
<vixen{KO}> and it certainly enhances it....tenfold!!!
<Kilted_One> ahhh then they wont like me
<KarenD> the man that I generally think of as my big Love to date was very romantic...in a Domly sort of way
<Sir-Rob> I feel a Dom can be remantic and not loose a submissives respect.
<shimmer``> in what way, Sir_Rob?
<Sir-Rob> Much in the same way a Dom can br "respectfull" of his/her submissive.
* vixen{KO} concurs
<KarenD> our first weekend away together, he took me to a fancy hotel....sent me flowers at work the day before, with a note detailing exactly what he wanted me to bring to wear, to wear to meet him, where to meet him....delicious
<shimmer``> don't you think a Dom "should" be respectful of His/Her submissive always?
<fluxie> I dont think that Romance, or "gentlemanliness" would negatively effect my opinion....I think I actually try to select for that
<Sir-Rob> It takes strength to show that romantic side of your personality.
<{autumn^w}_U_> it wouldn't work out if he wasn't i think shimmer
* TANAS doesn't see why a Dom cannot be romantic.
<shimmer``> autumn, i agree - but Sir-Rob stated "can" be respectful - i was just trying to clarify
<vixen{KO}> it can be a most enjoyable avenue for a D/s relationship to take....to present Romance....it's a nice way to counter the "hard" side to our lifestyle
<Kilted_One> {autumn^w}_U_ I would say that there is only a percieved difference between vanilla and D/s....in that D/s is more extreme therefore the interaction is more extreme....dont know if that is exactly true with vixen and I
* Kilted_One shows what natural to him.....romatic or not
<Sir-Rob> Romance should not be perceived as soft or weak
<fluxie> If I might ask: we are talking about Doms being the Romantic agest...how can subs express it?
<TANAS> Romance, isn't something someone DOES or DOES NOT do - it is something that someone IS or ISN'T.  If a DOM is romantic it isn't something measured in flowers and kitsh, rather something measured in character and soul.
* BernieRoehl tends to agree with Rob, but has known submissives over the years who find "romance" takes the edge off the D/s elements of the relationship
<{autumn^w}_U_> true Bernie.....in some ways it's very much an individual thing
* jalyn agrees with Bernie
* vixen{KO} leaves KO little love notes all the time all over the place....when He least expects it.
<shimmer``> i've tried to express it in little ways, fluxie ... considerate gestures, things i know would mean a lot to Him ... email cards *grin* ... little ...er.. stories
* Kilted_One has eaten at least one of em
<{autumn^w}_U_> lol
<shimmer``> lol
<trufriend> i'm not looking for something to "take the edge" off Bernie...my feeling is that romance in any kind of relationship just enhances the overall connection between two people
<TANAS> People's threshold for the appreciation of romance is different.  Some subs may dislike it (it takes the "edge of a D/s relationship) an others do not - just like in a vanilla relationship.
<vixen{KO}> sad for those submissives, i say, Bernie
<{autumn^w}_U_> i agree vixen
<{autumn^w}_U_> it would seem to me to be very cold
<BernieRoehl> True, TANAS.
<swannie^^> would it not depend on what one is looking for ...if romance takes the edge off D/s then perhaps the submissive and/or Dom is not looking for the "whole" but just a "part" ... 
<vixen{KO}> but different strokes and all that....LOL
<shimmer``> good point, swannie
<swannie^^> and if that pleases them that is fine.. 
* shimmer`` perks at the word "strokes"
<Kilted_One> or they could be looking for strick D/s swannie
<vixen{KO}> ;)
<swannie^^> but i wonder what how the relationship would sustain over time 
<ti`mara{OR}> question
<Sir-Rob> Yes...some times you want cold/hard and impersonal.
* LdyPM smiles
<ti`mara{OR}> can there be too much romance in a D/s relationship
<shimmer``> sometimes, Sir-Rob .. but not all the time, not in a 24/7,i think
* vixen{KO} nods with what swannie^^'s getting at....
<vixen{KO}> long term...needs variety
<Sir-Rob> no....not all the time.
<shimmer``> do Doms like romance? maybe that's a silly question ... i don't know
<Sir-Rob> sometimes Doms need to snuggle once in awhile.
<BernieRoehl> Personally, I like romance -- I liked it when I was still doing vanilla, and I still like it now.
<{autumn^w}_U_> to me, through showing someone you care ....being thoughtful.....comming to know each other and practicing openness and fearless honesty brings a greater bond between Dom and sub.....that starts with the courtship so to speak ....or at least for me.....and showing someone you care even through romance doesn't really take much.....
<PanheadAL> i do shimmer``
* Kilted_One loves romance
<trufriend> ti`mara, i think it depends entirely on the people in that D/s relationship whether or not there is "too much romance"
<shimmer``> how do the Doms define romance?? if i may ask?
* trufriend loves romance too
<ti`mara{OR}> thanks tru
<trufriend> np
<Kilted_One> the same way submissives do shimmer
<SirBear> @-------------
<shimmer``> do you think so, KO Sir?
* jalyn thinks romance only enhances the relationship
* shimmer`` smiles at SirBear
<Kilted_One> yes I do or I wouldnt have said so ;)
* shimmer`` laughs
<TANAS> Romance is spiritual.
<shimmer``> oopsie '_
<shimmer``> :)
<KarenD> autumn....sometimes romance is deceptive, a replacement for _listening_ to each other
<PanheadAL> i like to give a sub or salve a bubble bath in candle light sometimes to show them that there is romance and i will wash them from head to foot
<trufriend> a Dom/me can say that a sub gives a lot to submit to another.....i feel a Dom/me also gives a lot to show a romantic, passionate and sometimes tender side
<fluxie> good point KarenDand autumn
<shimmer``> that's nice, AL :)
<TANAS> KarenD and Autumn are jaded.
<trufriend> exactly what i said a few minutes ago jalyn
<Kilted_One> how they show it maybe another question...
<PanheadAL> you may be a sub or slave but you are still a woman to me
<KarenD> what makes you say that TANAS?
<{autumn^w}_U_> i dont agree Karen.....romance and deceipt are two different things.....is someone uses romance in order to gain thats deceiptful and an individual thing.....sad though
* fluxie might also be jaded, but still likes romance when it happens
<vixen{KO}> please no judgement calls during discussion....duke it out later.
<shimmer``> ok, so how do you show it, KO Sir? in a way that doesn't threaten the integrity of D/s, so to speak
<trufriend> love itself can be deceptive KarenD
<fluxie> when romance is "used" rather than just felt, thenh I think all the roses may be hollow
<TANAS> Romance isn't something tangible...something to put your finger on.  It is symbiotic - it happens between to people, and if the right people, it is wonderful and inevitable as breathing air.
<shimmer``> indeed, tru *smile*
<TANAS> "Roses" are a horrible analogy for romance.
<{autumn^w}_U_> well put TANAS
* vixen{KO} turns the steering wheel to a hard left....
* KarenD smiles, thinks TANAS is a Romantic
* {autumn^w}_U_ agrees.....8)
<trufriend> romance is part of the final coating on love....the icing on the cake
* BernieRoehl picks up His dictionary, and finds the definition for "romance"
<shimmer``> pssssssst don't use the BDSM dictionary, Bernie Sir ;)
<fluxie> I agree that it is natural, but not so sure than romance is inevitable, I think it takes effort, (but not to the point of cliche)
<BernieRoehl> "A kind of love between the sexes, usually youthful and nonmarital, characterized by high ideals of purity and devotion, strong ardor, etc"
* BernieRoehl smiles at shimmer
<Kilted_One> simplist form is little compliments shimmer....
<shimmer``> i don't know, tru ... one can have romance before love strikes ...
<BernieRoehl> I'm using my good old Funk and Wagnalls
<shimmer``> purity killed it for me, Bernie Sir ;)
<TANAS> "Roses" are outward, tactile, excuses for romance.  There is a problem.  Defining romance is like a fish defining water.  The fish doesn't recognize that it is all around him, but knows it's there...
* BernieRoehl chuckles
<trufriend> romance's base is in writing....poetry, love letters, plays, etc
* vixen{KO} concurs wif shimmer``
<BernieRoehl> But in a way... that "purity" issue is an interesting one.
<Kilted_One> I also compliment vixen on her self, her appearance her perceptions
<vixen{KO}> sounds a bit vanillatized to me...
* `abi thinks she should send Funk&Wagnall a nasty letter...."youthful and non-marital" ... I don't *think* so!
<fluxie> sort of a "courtly love" definition Bernie
<TANAS> The dictionary is always the worst place for to find out what anything means.
* BernieRoehl notes that his F&W is copyright 1976
<shimmer``> my webster's isn't that forgiving, Bernie :)
<BernieRoehl> What does Webster say, shimmer?
* vixen{KO} meant the use of purity...NOT your statement Master....please, no offense
* KarenD smiles '`abit...it said 'usually'.....you and Duke are exceptions to a lot ofdefinitions'
<swannie^^> Bernie Sir ...is that a typo ...sounds more like 1876 to me LOL 
<trufriend> it is a fabrication or exaggeration that has no real substance according to Webster's New World Dictionary
<shimmer``> an emotional attraction or aura belonging to an esp. heroic era, adventure or activity ;)
<{autumn^w}_U_> romance....comes from within....a desire to express and share with someone....from the heart......even without specific definitions we all know what it is.....how we feel about it.....it is to me the simplicity and beauty of ones self and feelings shared with another.......
* vixen{KO} starts plucking out the grey hairs...gotta get that youthful look for romance.
<{autumn^w}_U_> no dictionary required
<BernieRoehl> My, Webster is cynical!
* shimmer`` giggles at vixen
<shimmer``> indeed Bernie Sir ... but then, so am i :)
<trufriend> the media image of romance unfortunately plays a part in how we determine whether or not is is suitable in a D/s relationship
<`abi> I don't agree Karen...I don't think that we are an exception in that regard
* KarenD nods
<Kilted_One> shysters also romance infact they are experts at it and I wouldnt say that was truly from the heart {autumn^w}_U_
<`abi> in fact...if anything, I think that romance requires a certain maturity and that it flourishes within a marriage
* vixen{KO} has always thought abi and Dukey were exceptional...
<BernieRoehl> Yes, tru -- and the media image of romance still has that pesky "purity" element to it.  I can see how the innocence of romantic love can be in sharp contrast with the the intensity of a D/s relationship.
<swannie^^> i agree with Tanas.....romance is intangeable, and cannot be described...it's so individual ..... 
<shimmer``> tru KO Sir ... very true
<shimmer``> true too
* shimmer`` sighs
<{autumn^w}_U_> i understand KO.....but is used by a shyster then it really isn't romance ....in that instance it's merely a tool 
* trufriend smiles
* shimmer`` winks at tru ... sowwy
<vixen{KO}> agreed Bernie....the ying and yang as it were.
<swannie^^> i'm so lagged i think 
<trufriend> s'ok sis
<ti`mara{OR}> i think it all depends on the person and what they precieve as romantic i know i would rather cuddle up and watch a movie then to get a dozen roses
<shimmer``> leather wear works for me ;) (kidding)
<vixen{KO}> LOL
<{autumn^w}_U_> lol shimmer....
<vixen{KO}> and moi, dahling
<shimmer``> hahahaha no doubt, vixen :)
<kashina-> roses die...i'm with shimmer  **giggle**
<shimmer``> kash hon :))
<{autumn^w}_U_> romance is what it is....how we show or share it is individual.....obviously we all have things we consider romantic or not
<shimmer``> though ... most of the time ... a kiss, a thought, a special word is all i really want
<trufriend> i can hear it now Bernie...."my Master whisked me off my feet with me candy and flowers today"
<BernieRoehl> I'm curious... what sort of gestures do people here think of as "romantic"?
* BernieRoehl chuckles with tru
<fluxie> I think I find being helped to heal after a scene is a romantic thing for me that I would never expect in a vanilla relationship, as it is a sign of helping to perpetuate the partnering in BDSM
<trufriend> ok, so the typing ain't the greatest!  lol
<shimmer``> see above, Bernie Sir :) ... lol a kiss, a thought, a special word is all i really want
<fluxie> (but I like roses (as bushes) too)
<kashina-> i agree fluxie......very much so
<shimmer``> yes, me too, fluxie! good one!
* Kilted_One thinks.....anything above "Ya wanna Ffffflog" ;)
<shimmer``> much better swannie
<trufriend> i consider sitting quietly together, cuddling and enjoying one another's company....very romantic
<shimmer``> Ping reply received from swann^^: 2 seconds
<swann^^> phew 
<shimmer``> material things aren't always romantic
* vixen{KO} plugs her ears hearing all those Fffff's her Master is saying....
<vixen{KO}> be careful, Master
<TANAS> A thing can never be romantic.
<Kilted_One> I would agree shimmer the little toughts gestures acts are the nature of romance
<shimmer``> when i was collared, i made a homepage for my Master ... with all the thoughts and feelings He aroused in me ... He saw that as very romantic and wonderful *soft smile*
<{autumn^w}_U_> i agree shimmer....it means a lot more to me to share a moment...if i have the last two minutes of each day with him....that time that is just our that the rest of the world can't touch...or sharing of ourselves.....those things are always held close to my heart
<fluxie> If the thing has either symbolic, or emothinal meaning to the ppl, I think it can be romantic, or the giving of it, at least
<kashina-> what about 5 strokes of the flogger.....then a gentle hand....slowly moving across the heated flesh.....and then across the cheek of the face.....a smile and a kiss....and an 'I love you pet'.....would that not be considered romantic also?
<jalyn> romance varies from person to person...flowers from one would be an intrusion from another
<shimmer``> yes, kash :))
<ti`mara{OR}> ohhhhh kashina my kind of romance
<kashina-> then we can have extreme opposites that ARE romantic....
* vixen{KO} thinks so kashina-
<{autumn^w}_U_> wow kash....well said
* fluxie would think kashina's example to be a "romantic scene" to me as well
<kashina-> a feeling...a touch.......a look......all meant to touch the heart and soul.....all equally powerful
* shimmer`` nods
* {autumn^w}_U_ agrees
<TANAS> Romance is everything that DOESN'T happen in those neauseating films labelled "romantic comedy".
<fluxie> lol _agreed_
<shimmer``> i dunno .. the deli scene in "when harry met sally" was kinda cute ;)
<{autumn^w}_U_> lol
* shimmer`` grins
* kashina- laughs
<TANAS> I am not sure if shimmer is implying that fake orgasms are romantic.  I assume she is not.
<fluxie> I dont think it was "romantic" though...
<{autumn^w}_U_> i just don't wanna ever live without it if i dont have to.....*smile*
<shimmer``> it was just a joke, Tanas ... chill :))
<Kilted_One> when harry was puting his meat into sally's sub??
<{autumn^w}_U_> lol KO
<shimmer``> hahahaha
<BernieRoehl> Speaking for myself for a moment... I find that the party of me that's gentle and romantic is slightly different from the part of me that's Dominant.  They're not incompatible... just a different headspace.
<BernieRoehl> party = part
<shimmer``> explain, Bernie Sir?
* BernieRoehl thinks for a moment
<trufriend> why is there a need to separate the two Bernie?
* shimmer`` nods at tru
<BernieRoehl> I don't think that they're separate, necessarily.
<kashina-> like me at work......me at home.....and me in scene......not uncommon at all Bernie  **soft smile**
<TANAS> Bernie: I don't see how they are different headspaces.  In my mind, if you are "romantic" it is innately predisposed - it's like being left handed.  If you are left handed, you are still left handed when you're a dom.
<BernieRoehl> Yes, kashina -- that's what I'm thinking
<BernieRoehl> To me, there's a real transition that happens after an intense scene, as I move into the cuddling and tenderness and aftercare.
<trufriend> "They're not incompatible... just a different headspace." . . .is that not separating?
<kashina-> depends on the transition between 'modes' i think tru
* vixen{KO} thinks the lines are quite hazy sometimes, no?
<fluxie> yes, I think that was the transition I was thinking about when I mentioned helping me heal (like putting a salve on) it is a change of state
* BernieRoehl nods at fluxie
<trufriend> my thinking though is that it is still the same person....or maybe should be
* Kilted_One is sure that the physical area of the brain being used during the scene is a diffrent area for the aftercare Bernie so in essence you have two different headspaces??
<fluxie> I feel much more "romantic" when in a subspace actually (or sometimes giddy)
<BernieRoehl> Certainly the same person... just a different frame of mind.
<trufriend> not like taking one hat off and putting on another to change personalities
<vixen{KO}> me too, fluxie
<{autumn^w}_U_> what if you dont ever live outside subspace.....what if all facets of your life are merged even though you live different rolls.....
<kashina-> same person yes......but i in no way act the same as i do with my children.....say.....with my lover/Dom....and yet daily we move between those forms of ourselves with little difficulty
* trufriend laughs
<BernieRoehl> I often feel most romantic (not sure that's the right word... intimate, connected) right after a scene.
<vixen{KO}> well, you get endorphins in many forms....love, subspace, excersize....they all amount to the idealization of happiness  (ie: romance)
<trufriend> i tried to make my husband become somewhat romantic......like that would ever work
* shimmer`` smiles at tru and hugs her gently
<trufriend> i think i received flowers from him twice in the 14 years we were married!!
<ti`mara{OR}> i don't think it is something you can make someone do
<{autumn^w}_U_> nope i agree
<vixen{KO}> you can't....agreed
<trufriend> i know that now ti`mara{OR}!!
<kashina-> tru.....i've met your husband.......i think you're right   
* kashina- hugs tru and laughs
<trufriend> ROTF
<trufriend> what's romantic to me?  having my partner remember little things we said or done, remembering dates like my birthday or the anniversary of our first meeting
<vixen{KO}> okay....so romance is nice setting up a scene....during a scene....after a scene....WORKZ FER ME!!!
<{autumn^w}_U_> Master is romantic....maybe not someones text book idea of it but he is....and that in no way alters my respect for him......im just glad he is.....and thankful that we found each other.......
<PanheadAL> someone is eather romantic or they are not you cant change them to be what you want them to be
<ti`mara{OR}> i know you do tru i think alot of us who have made mistakes found out the hard way you can't make them what they are not
<trufriend> yeppers
<fluxie> sometimes you seem to have to learn what the other person(s) think is romantic, in order to "get it"
* Kilted_One says that mistakes are just another name for experience
* vixen{KO} can identify with that kinda thankful, {autumn^w}_U_
<{autumn^w}_U_> it's the best kind vixen{KO}....*smile*
<shimmer``> oh wow, KO Sir ... i am REALLY experienced, then :)
* vixen{KO} ^5's her sis
<trufriend> i don't consider it very romantic if i need to instruct my partner how to do something....i wnat Him to be able to think for Himself...come up with ideas for Himself
* vixen{KO} read that on the bathroom subbie wall, shimmer``....but it was weird....and in your handwriting too...LOL
<shimmer``> hahahahahaha!
<shimmer``> you baaaaad grrrrrl :))
<{autumn^w}_U_> hahahaha
* kashina- laughs
<ti`mara{OR}> then KO Sir i have more experience then what i want
* vixen{KO} whistles lightly, rolling her eyes and smirkin
<{autumn^w}_U_> i have a question.....
<BernieRoehl> Go ahead, autumn
<vixen{KO}> yes, sis?
<Kilted_One> I think we all could say that ti`mara{OR}
* ti`mara{OR} smiles at KO
<{autumn^w}_U_> what if you know because you are self aware enough what romantic things make you happy.....should you not share those things.....i mean....do we all actually share it in order that our partners might learn of us?.....
* BernieRoehl nods
<{autumn^w}_U_> i know lots of people who through lack of communication are suffering that way
<{autumn^w}_U_> when if they merely tried to remember that we are none of us mind readers we might enhance romance
* Kilted_One agrees with {autumn^w}_U_ but I think that is differnt from what tru was saying.....romance sort of looses its edge when your partner is prodded or pushed into it
<vixen{KO}> W/we do {autumn^w}_U_....speaking for O/ourselves of course....that's how to learn what workz and what doesn't
<trufriend> exactly KO
<{autumn^w}_U_> i know a few people who just want to give their partners the world but dont know how
<trufriend> it looses it's edge completely
<kashina-> i have sent flowers to men......i actually HATE getting flowers....but men always seem surprised by it....and they do think it romantic
<BernieRoehl> I know what *I* consider romantic, but it's important to know what your lover finds romantic.
<{autumn^w}_U_> exactly Bernie
<trufriend> i've done that too kashina
<BernieRoehl> And it really is different for everyone.
<ti`mara{OR}> here is a question does a subbie have to be romantic?
* Kilted_One thinks we are talking about the things that happen that we call a relatiohnship
* BernieRoehl thinks subbies can and should be romantic (assuming that's what their Doms want)
<vixen{KO}> nobody, ti`mara{OR}, Dominant or submissive HAS to be romantic....but it soytanly helps!!!
<BernieRoehl> I've had submissives do some wonderfully romantic things for me, and I treasure those moments.
<{autumn^w}_U_> i would find it very limiting if i wasn't able to be 
<shimmer``> i am inherently romantic (though a cynic) ... so *shrug*
<{autumn^w}_U_> like being caged and not in a good way.....lol
<shimmer``> lol
<trufriend> like i said earlier...my feeling is that romance in any kind of relationship just enhances the overall connection between two people
* {autumn^w}_U_ agrees
<vixen{KO}> true tru
* Kilted_One takes mental note......build cage.....opps was that out loud????
<{autumn^w}_U_> hahahaha
* kashina- giggles
* vixen{KO} *PERKS*
* shimmer`` grins
* jalyn grins and laughs
* {autumn^w}_U_ thinks even cages can be romantic....hehe
* BernieRoehl wonders if decorating the cage with roses would make it more romantic :-)
<trufriend> LOL
<fluxie> interesting, Bernie :)
* {autumn^w}_U_ just receiving a cage would be i think Bernie...lol
<trufriend> i was just picturing a large dog cage covered in lace and ribbons Bernie!
<Kilted_One> well gee we have found a difference
* BernieRoehl smiles
* vixen{KO} makes a note of that....thanks for the idea, Bernie!
* kashina- is NOT cleaning up the petals and leaves!!
<Kilted_One> no cages in a vannila romance book
<{autumn^w}_U_> lol kash
<fluxie> hmmmmm daisys :)
* BernieRoehl once did a scene by candlelight
<ti`mara{OR}> now that is nice Bernie
<shimmer``> sounds lovely, Bernie Sir :)
<kashina-> oooooooooo candles!
<vixen{KO}> and romantic
<{autumn^w}_U_> KO could you just see a vanilla womans face if her smiling love presented her with a cage???????
<vixen{KO}> LOL
<vixen{KO}> would depend on if they had a dog
<{autumn^w}_U_> poor June Cleaver ......Ward would be in it first
<fluxie> lol "A Love Containment Device"
<Kilted_One> if they had no dog?
<vixen{KO}> then he better be heading to the SPCA or he'd have some 'splainin to do...
<{autumn^w}_U_> thats one thing i find so greatly interesting about D/s......
<Kilted_One> so I guess there are differences due to the nature of what we find appealling more that what we see in a vanilla v's a D/s relationship?
<{autumn^w}_U_> subsolutely
<{autumn^w}_U_> hehe
<ti`mara{OR}> i think it is romatic for a Dom to push a subs limits and then she finds out that it is something she loved to me that is very romantic because it is something He helped her discover about herself
* BernieRoehl agrees
<BernieRoehl> Helping someone grow, by discovering new parts of herself, is part of any loving relationship.
* BernieRoehl looks at the clock on His computer
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's almost time to wrap up the discussion.
<BernieRoehl> Anyone have any final comments?
<{autumn^w}_U_> just that im hopin for a cage
-> [#bdsm-kw] PING
-shimmer``- you love me!!!! you REALLY love me!!!!!!!!!
<{autumn^w}_U_> lol
<shimmer``> heck, i'd take vanilla romance right now ;))
* vixen{KO} thinks romance and D/s go hand in binder
<kashina-> thank You Bernie for being SUCH a sweetheart and covering for me while i dealt with my twisted life  **kiss**
* jalyn agrees with vixen
* kashina- always thinks that Bernie does a WONDERFUL job
* {autumn^w}_U_ agrees
[shimmer`` SOUND]
<trufriend> something that is NOT different between D/s & vanilla romance KO, is being able to notice the little things with one another
<Kilted_One> wanna palce and order at KOvix {autumn^w}_U_??
<trufriend> !shimmer applause.wav
<BernieRoehl> It was my pleasure, kashina!
<{autumn^w}_U_> i saw yer toys actually KO....i'd break the bank orderin from you two...lol
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's 10 pm and the formal part of our discussion is at an end.
<Kilted_One> just dont rob one
<trufriend> thanks shimmer
<BernieRoehl> Thank you to everyone who participated!
* kashina- hugs Bernie and kisses Him with a smile and a wink ;)
<BernieRoehl> *mmmm*
<{autumn^w}_U_> lol KO
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, kashina!
<trufriend> thanks Bernie
<vixen{KO}> and to you Bernie and kashina-
* RedHedJim enjoyed lurcking
<fluxie> thank you, Bernie and Kashina :) :)
<RedHedJim> lurking too
<BernieRoehl> Please feel free to keep chatting informally.