October 6, 2002 EhBC Online Discussion

<BernieRoehl> Well, it's 9 pm and time for our regular weekly discussion. I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion is "Roleplaying". The moderator is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<DarkAngel^{rt}> hello Omy_and_oasis{Omy}
<Captain_suzq> hi becky :)
<Dan_butterfly> will re-introduce O/ourselves to Bernie maybe after the discussion
<BernieRoehl> So... roleplaying.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> oh damn ,,, didnt slip that one in
<DarkAngel^{rt}> is that like a roll in the hay?
<BernieRoehl> Who here has tried introducing an element of roleplay into their scenes?
<BernieRoehl> It can be! :-)
<Dan_butterfly> Bernie for the newer O/ones could W/we maybe have a lil description of what role play actually is considered to be?
<BernieRoehl> Good idea, Dan_butterfly
* Dan_butterfly smiles tY
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> I wrap my slave up in saran wrap and let her roll around the floor trying to get free
* jewel`{F} bites her tongue
<DarkAngel^{rt}> is there butter on the floor?
<BernieRoehl> The idea behind roleplaying is that for the duration of a scene, the two (or more) people involved are becoming someone other than their normal, everyday selves. They take on a "role" or character, and the interaction between them is based on those roles.
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> Actually jam DA...tastes better
<Dan_butterfly> so like Teacher/student..tY
<BernieRoehl> Yes, good example Dan_butterfly
<Dan_butterfly> now is oasis role playing as left overs then?
* Dan_butterfly blinks
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Owner and puppy
<Kilted_One> think an example of this would be a school teacher and a school gur/boy in a school scene??
<blue^^^> pony and Trainer :)
* Dan_butterfly smiles tY thinks W/we have the idea now
<BernieRoehl> Yes, all good examples. Others are jailer and prisoner, kidnapper and captive, things like that
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ya but this is fun Dan_butterfly ,,,,, cop and hooker
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> Or fish and the fisherman
* rhiannon{KO} knows who blue^^^ is now..;)
* blue^^^ waves
* rhiannon{KO} waves back..
<fiestyone> how about poor slut and sugar daddy??
<Dan_butterfly> W/we did an audition as a porn star.......Director and actress
* BernieRoehl smiles at all the excellent examples
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> Sounds too much like R/l fiestyone ;)
<DarkAngel^{rt}> kewl Dan_butterfly ,,, care to elaborate on the scene ?
<fiestyone> as long as the cash is real Omy_and_oasis{Omy}
<candie> how about the Dom as a bratty 5 yr old and the sub as the babysitter forced to take care of him *chuckles*
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> Ohhh Dan...I like that one
<Dan_butterfly> well..ummm..blushes this is O/our first discussion
<DarkAngel^{rt}> of course Dan_butterfly ,,, that is why we are picking on you *evil wink*
<jewel`{F}> lol candie
* Achilles{tr} writes down Dan_butterfly's role idea for later
<jewel`{F}> too much like r/t
<Dan_butterfly> oh thank You DA
<saucyboy> would people say that it's an integral part of thier play.. or just a little bit of "seasoning" to change the taste now and again?
<Dan_butterfly> W/we use it as seasoning
<DarkAngel^{rt}> what props (innocent smile) did you use to assist in the scene Dan_butterfly ?
<Dan_butterfly> well video camera..cant hire a girl that doesnt look good on camera
<DarkAngel^{rt}> good point
<Northboundd> theres always the customs officer and smuggler
<Dan_butterfly> needs to make sure she can use toys......take a beating...be bound
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> oasis: for me role playing is separating myself from reality...as far as possible.
* DarkAngel^{rt} starts taking notes too ,,, checks what Achilles{tr} has so far
* jewel`{F} wonders if oasis is ever in reality
* Achilles{tr} lets DA crib His notes
* `abi recalls the 'Sexy Grandmas' video she saw at the Adult video store
* Omy_and_oasis{Omy} nods in agreement with jewel
<Dan_butterfly> it even carried forward to the next day where emails were sent regarding performance and callbacks..grinz
<DarkAngel^{rt}> very nice Dan_butterfly ,,, ty for sharing
<Dan_butterfly> Yw DA..is sure the more comfy W/we get it may get more descriptive
<Achilles{tr}> Stop picking on Dan_butterfly DA. I'm running out of paper.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I am hopeing so ,,,,
<Dan_butterfly> lol@Achilles
* Dan_butterfly was supposed to remain silent and observe tonight
* Dan_butterfly falls silent once again
<DarkAngel^{rt}> maybe you should do the paper boy one Achilles{tr} ,,, and the divorcee who wants to pay for her paper ,,,,, in trade
* jewel`{F} smiles
* `abi takes the notepaper away from DA
<Achilles{tr}> Is role playing supposed to allow people to do things they wouldn't do in their 'normal' personaes?
<Dan_butterfly> good question
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> I think its the variety thing Achilles{tr}...exploring other venues
<BernieRoehl> I think it is, Achilles{tr}
<saucyboy> that's interesting Achilles{tr} ... i think submission alone can be a vent for the same thing..
<Kilted_One> would you say that Pony play was role playing or something more in depth than that??
<BernieRoehl> People often say they can go further, or do things outside their normal range of activities, when they have the freedom to be someone else
<BernieRoehl> I would include pony play under the umbrella of roleplaying
<`abi> it does the opposite for me ... I can't allow myself to 'let go' enough in a role ... I do better as myself
<Achilles{tr}> Certainly a pony is not 'really' a pony and is simply acting as one.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> if that is a persons main kink Kilted_One ,, then would you not say that roll play was their main kink ?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I like your roll `abi
<DarkAngel^{rt}> but it was still roll play
<Achilles{tr}> But does the use of role playing mean doing different things or doing things to a greater extent or intensity than they could without the role?
<Kilted_One> if we class Pony play as role play and that was their main interest then you could say that that was their main kink, yes
<Dan_butterfly> so then what is role play for O/one might not be for A/another depends on the P/person then
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Dan_butterfly ,, I dont think there are black and white specifics,, there are many flavours to be sure ,,, but some people like being able to put on, as well as take of a different persona
* Dan_butterfly nods
<Achilles{tr}> Well, I am not a cop but I might do a scene as one... on the other hand a person who is a cop and takes on that role in a scene is still role playing since they are simply playing a cop in the context of the scene, yes?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> that is ,,,, hesitating to say, ,, normally considdered roll play
<Dan_butterfly> but for example...pony play is not a kink of O/ours but it wouldnt be out of the realm to attempt it in a role play situation though
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> I believe so Achilles{tr}
<Kilted_One> I have read that some have spend weeks as a Pony without getting out of the role. pretty strong stuff if it is true, however I still think it is role play taken to an extreme
<DarkAngel^{rt}> interesting Kilted_One
<Northboundd> prison guard then find out there is a conspiracy among the female inmates and you must get to the pottom of it and punish the perpatraters
<Dan_butterfly> good point KO
* Kilted_One nods to Achilles{tr} I'll buy that for a $
<Mobius77> very interesting KO
<DarkAngel^{rt}> what of Gorean ,, could you elaborate Kilted_One ?
* Dan_butterfly listens intently
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> I don't think role play has a specific time limit...its a matter of what the two people agree to
<LORD`WOLF> sides with Northboundd strip search detial
* Dan_butterfly agree's with Omy and oasis
<Kilted_One> if you try and follow the books to the Nth degree I would say that would fall under the guise of role play, if you lift some of the ideas and rituals then I dont think it is
<DarkAngel^{rt}> some "traditional" rolls have their own structure and guidlines that have developed around them ,,, others are a bit more play
<`abi> Bernie, do you have any suggestions for people who want to 'develop' a roleplay scene?
<Dan_butterfly> but once they are lifted from the books and brought into the D/s relationship on a consistant basis cant see how it could still be considered as role play
<Northboundd> and corpal punisment and torture, prison could be in turky and have an infadell foeign prisioner
<BernieRoehl> Actually, yes I do abi :-)
<jewel`{F}> could one not say when a D/s couple do not live together in some respects that the time they are together is role play for some?
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> Even through role play we learn things about ourselves and who we are playing with. There will be things from this that carry into our "normal" lives. Enriching us, making us better
<BernieRoehl> One of the main things is to put some thought into the character beforehand. Not just in terms of costuming, but really trying to get into the right mindset.
<`abi> how do you suggest doing that?
<BernieRoehl> A few ways...
<Dan_butterfly> there was a technique that we were taught in theatre school that might help in preparation?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> what was it Dan_butterfly ?
<Dan_butterfly> what E/each involved would do would be to write a complete bio of themselves(as character).......develop the character and make it real..with feelings and emotions
<BernieRoehl> Research is a good starting point. If you're playing (for example) a truant officer who's picked up a young person skipping school, find out what makes a person choose that line of work
* DarkAngel^{rt} looks at his watch and grumbles ,,,
<BernieRoehl> Think about how they spend their days, what satisfaction they get from their job, and so on. Also think about the kinds of things they say, and how they say them. Practice them a few times.
<BernieRoehl> A lot of people get tongue-tied when roleplaying -- they can't figure out what to say, or how to say it, and they're worried that when they do speak it will sound silly or false.
<saucyboy> It's interesting, i think early recollections of my interest in bdsm usually started with role play.
<BernieRoehl> A bio is an excellent technique, Dan_butterfly
<BernieRoehl> Really makes the person focus on their role
<Dan_butterfly> tY Bernie as is researching
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> oasis: its a great way of playing out personal fantasies. It can envolve one or many different people. [Justice:#BDSM-kw PING]
<Kilted_One> how about after care with role playing??
<BernieRoehl> Costuming can often help. Put someone in a particular piece of clothing, and they start to feel the role. Whether it's a military dress uniform or a bridle and saddle, it has an effect on the person.
<Dan_butterfly> just a thought but if the P/people dont have the time to prepare more maybe expand on characters from a movie that was liked
<saucyboy> so do wooden paddles Bernie... speaking of mindset... lol
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> You think the after care would be different from a role playing scene?
* BernieRoehl smiles
<saucyboy> wood is evil.
<saucyboy> :o)
<BernieRoehl> Or from a book
* Dan_butterfly nods
<kneels> sure Omy_and_oasis{Omy}..if i was a whore i may not want to stay in that role if i am feeling sucky...mind you if i was a little girl i might just carry on with the role play
<Kilted_One> in some ways I think it would have to be to 'ground" the individuals again
<Dan_butterfly> thinks that sometimes role play is more intense different feelings and emotions come out maybe the aftercare needs to be different afterwards
<BernieRoehl> The other thing is to try to stay "in character" for as long as possible. It's easy to get distracted, or lose confidence, or just drop the roleplaying. Staying in it is both the hardest part, and the most important since it really does get easier the longer you do it.
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> Is it really after care kneels or are you just slowing down the role play?
<Achilles{tr}> Does that mean the role playing distracts from the focus on the snesations and experiences of the scene itself?
<Dan_butterfly> sometimes i think it can actually heighten them..just personal opinion here
<Kilted_One> or focuses specific sensations
* Fyre{j} looks up and down the nick list. Don't we all role play in some small measure through our online persona's? Giving ourselves nick names that highlight some aspect of character or demeaner that we wish others to focus upon ..... ( BernieRoehl is a noted exception)
<kneels> well..if the "role" has the same qualities as yourself in that instance...then it would be after care
<Dan_butterfly> well only half of U/us has another name and that is a good point Fyre
<Kilted_One> Omy, I guess it depends on the scene, some would lend themselves to "kiss and make up" others you may have to come right out of the scene
<BernieRoehl> I know that for some people, it's a split-focus issue -- once they get into the physical sensations, they become themselves again. Others find they experience the physical aspects of the scene as the character they're playing.
<kneels> well...that is interesting to me Fyre{j}..i suppose we do all give ourselves roles to some extent..but Max and i in 2 years...have never "role played"
<Kilted_One> Kilted_one is a Kilted_one
<Dan_butterfly> can role play be used to attempt something out of O/ones "comfort zone"?
<kneels> absolutly Dan_butterfly...but it has to be used safely
<Dan_butterfly> what concerns me with that though kneels is sometimes..if the role play is deep enough it can go beyond in the intensity of the moment couldnt it?..sort of past the point of no return?
<Achilles{tr}> Exactly Dan_butterfly. Something which might not suit your day to day personae might seem totally appopriate and even desireable to a role play character.
<Dan_butterfly> so it would have to be important that not just in the r/l situation but maybe new boundries would have to be detailed very carefully beforehand
<Dan_butterfly> in the role play that is
<kneels> well..if you take some one that has rape issues into a rape the whore role play..you are sure to have some lasting effects..she may feel euphoric that she is overcoming it..or devastated to have it all rush back and hate you for it..soooo..you dont want to do it lightly
<Achilles{tr}> Hmmm, so a role play might require a whole brand new negotiation. Interesting concept.
<Dan_butterfly> that was my thought Achilles
<Dan_butterfly> if O/one's introduced A/another into a rl relationship new negotiations would have to be arranged so why not within new "persona's"in role play
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> oasis : If you use role play to press limits outside of the comfort zone, aren't your pushing the limits two fold...you trust the person not the persona.
<Sweet1`> if it becomes that deep, and comes from the depths of ones personae, then is it really role play? or is it just simply a release of an intrinsic part of who you are?
<Sweet1`> and you have only allowed yourself the avenue to express it?
<rhiannon{KO}> good point Sweet1`.
<kneels> it may be easier to allow herself release as another is what i mean
<Dan_butterfly> good point
* Kilted_One wishes he said what Sweet1` just said, although I'm still trying to get my head around it
<Dan_butterfly> lol
<fiestyone> for some that may be the only way they can express it
<Kilted_One> if it is not who or what you "normally are' is it not a form of role playing, you are taking on a different role???
<BernieRoehl> Someone said something to me many years ago that I found very insightful...
<Achilles{tr}> The role is, perhaps, a tool to help express somethign which is normally inhibited?
<BernieRoehl> Any character you play is a part of yourself, an aspect of who you are. It may be a part of yourself that's never seen the light of day before, but it's in there, and all you have to do is learn to let that facet of yourself come to the forefront.
<BernieRoehl> Instead of "becoming" someone else, you let the part of you that already *is* that person come out to play
<Dan_butterfly> but that is assuming that someone can Master the roleplay though...if O/one cant assume the role how can it be a part of O/one?
<fiestyone> humans are such complex beings......so many different things inside
<kneels> sure Kilted_One..i am very independant in everyday life,and outspoken and not at all submissive...yet i am childlike and submissive to Max...so am i role playing when i am with him?...we have never actually taken on characters..we have just evolved into what we are...he is my daddy yet the man would think i was nuts if i wanted to actually do age play
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> SO those on prozac should stay away from role play....taken to an extreme...safety concerns rise
<kneels> so...are we "role playing"...or actually living roles that suit us within our relationship?
* saucyboy puts on his deep conversation boots
<Kilted_One> kneels, we are all different ppl to different ppl and differnt stimuli, so are you sure that you are not just being yourself when you are submissive???
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> I think in the beginning kneels we start with the latter and then in time might reach for roles that are outside of ourselves
<BernieRoehl> An example... let's say someone has to play a spoiled kid who gets to take advantage of his sitter. Everyone knows what it's like to be a child -- we've all been children. And most people understand on a very deep level what it's like to be spoiled. So reaching in and finding those spoiled, childish feelings is an achievable goal.
<Dan_butterfly> only you know what is "real"in Y/your relationship kneels
* Dan_butterfly still is a child..behaves that way to Dan all the time..grinz impishly therefore am i role playing or just another facet of my personality?
<kneels> absolutly Kilted_One..i am just being myself..but the self that interacts with Max sees him as a daddy..not because he puts me in diapers..he never has..just because that is the two parts of our personality that evolved together into an odd relationship
<Kilted_One> I agree wiv ya kneels
<Omy_and_oasis{Omy}> Why do you say your relationship is odd kneels?
<Dan_butterfly> how can something be odd when it is accepted by both P/parties?
<Dan_butterfly> test?
<kneels> because Max really just IS my daddy..we have no idea how it evolved to that..i cant remember when i began to call him that..but we dont have a normal "committed" relationship of lovers..or a collared bdsm relationship..he is comitted to being there for me as my daddy and in that role should i ever need him..and i respect him as a father...yet it has nothing to do with role play..it is probably a psychiatrists dream thesis
<Dan_butterfly> but it cant be odd kneels if that is what Y/you need to exchange in the relationship whether sexual or not
<BernieRoehl> So for those who have engaged in roleplaying, what suggestions do you have for people just starting out?
<Dan_butterfly> communicate what E/each wants out of the role play
<Dan_butterfly> what T/their hopes and wishes may be
<kneels> it is odd Dan_butterfly...but to other peoples standards..not to ours :)
<Dan_butterfly> but then O/other would be standing in judgement kneels :)
<Kilted_One> "odd' doesnt have to be in a negative light
<rhiannon{KO}> i bet you if a vanilla person saw how W/we all live they would be saying W/we are all just role playing..
<Sweet1`> Dan_butterfly, would the term non-traditional relationship be easier to use?
<Kilted_One> odd could simply mean 'different"
<Dan_butterfly> S/some may see the fact that i love Dan to flog my butt daily as odd as well..but W/we dont...so thinks it is a matter of needs and desires and wants
<kneels> true Kilted_One..and their are others that live roles everyday that others may find odd..but only because it doesnt quite make sense to them
<Dan_butterfly> agree's with KO(He said it better than i did)
<kneels> i miss actual role play though..it can be amazing if you find One that works well off of you and the scene just takes on a mind of it's own and leads down interesting paths
<BernieRoehl> Well, we have just five minutes left in the formal part of our discussion. Anyone have any thoughts they'd like to add on the subject of roleplaying?
<Dan_butterfly> could roleplay be considered as a way of approaching and maybe overcoming insecurities?
<kneels> i played with one Dom that i could scene with for hours and never get bored..the entire thing would take on life and both would get just what they wanted out of it...but with others it doesnt seem to flow as smoothly
<Kilted_One> I guess that would depend Dan_butterfly, if you were in da security guard role ;)
* woe waves hello
* Dan_butterfly grinz@KO
<kneels> yes Dan_butterfly...if it is done right and with a lot of communication
* blue^^^ waves back
* Kilted_One waves Top
<woe> too bad I missed most of the discussion - I can't add thoughts really when I'm not sure what's said - but it's certainly one of my favourite things to do
<BernieRoehl> Well, let's close the discussion log there. Please feel free to continue chatting informally.
<john-lennon> hello
<Dan_butterfly> tY Bernie for moderating
<john-lennon> i didnt want to say helo in the middle of it lol
<BernieRoehl> I'm going offline to process and upload the log. Thanks to everyone who participated in tonight's discussion!
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, Dan_butterfly
<Kilted_One> good job BernieRoehl
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, KO
<Dan_butterfly> oh Bernie will You be returning?
<kneels> night BernieRoehl :)