October 3, 2004 EhBC Online Discussion

<ModBot> This message is generated by Moderator Bot, ModBot for short. I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "The Ramifications of Being a Dom When Dealing with Other People". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<Achilles{tr}> Take care spirited_sassy{CP}
<`aymelek> here is fine, and i enjoy it but even when i've seen You at munches, i can chat with `abi, but have such a hard time with You
<Achilles{tr}> Heavens... I hadn't realized our discussion before the discussion was SO in line with the discussion!
<`aymelek> *laughs, neither had i!
<`aymelek> g'evening KO Sir
<Achilles{tr}> Ramifications?
<becky> hiya KO
<Kilted_One> hi folks
<becky> wb sarah
<Sweet1`> hi KO
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> hello KO
<elegantsarah> tks becky
<Achilles{tr}> Ummm, I get a lot fo courtesy and people don't bother Me unless thye have something worthwhile to say at munches.
<`aymelek> g'evening Bernie *smiles
<Achilles{tr}> Would those be ramifications?
* BernieRoehl smiles and waves as he settles in for the discussion
* Achilles{tr} smiles inquiringly
<`aymelek> Achilles{tr} Sir, why do You think ppl find You so hard to approach though?
<`aymelek> i do enjoy chatting in here with You
<Achilles{tr}> I'm afraid I would not be the One to ask that of `aymelek. you are more qualified.
<Achilles{tr}> But is that because I am Dom?
<becky> well i think i'll say goodnite... be well A/all... nitters
<elegantsarah> I don't find you unapproachable, myslef
<`aymelek> not at all Sir, i have no problem chatting with Bernie, or DA, or most Others
<Achilles{tr}> No elegantsarah... you don't seem to have any trouble at all.
<Achilles{tr}> Well then `aymelek, that doesn't seem to have to do with My being Dom.. that is just something about Me, specifically.
* `aymelek wonders if this at all carries over outside of munches and parties
<`aymelek> do vanilla's find You intimidating?
<Achilles{tr}> But the subject seems to assume that there is some sort of a down side to being Dom when relating to other people.
<elegantsarah> DA and Bernie tend to initiate conversations though....that may be the difference
<`aymelek> i very much doubt there is, i would think it would be a bonus
<Achilles{tr}> Oh, definitely `aymelek. I recently had to reprimand My boss for interrupting Me. He hasn't done so since.
* `aymelek laughs
<Achilles{tr}> So... what is this discussion to be about? I'm at a loss for the purpose of the subject.
<Achilles{tr}> "The Ramifications of Being a Dom When Dealing with Other People"
<Achilles{tr}> Bernie?
<`aymelek> i don't find Achilles{tr} at all "unfriendly" or unapproachable, i am just not comfortable in His close presence r/l, He's intimidating
<BernieRoehl> I believe the original idea was that being a Dom would tend to influence one's vanilla life
<dana^^> was hoping to find a little more insight into the Domly mind... grins
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> Achilles{tr} intimidating?? nahhhhhhh
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> lol
<Achilles{tr}> Hmmm, then I would say that is a yes but it isn't so much that I bring My Dom self over into My vanilla life. I've always been like this and it simply applies well in BDSM life.
* krista-F bites her tongue
<BernieRoehl> In other words, how does a Dom put their dominance "on hold" in non-scene contexts. Or do we?
<elegantsarah> Oh, I suspect being a Dom doesn't influence vanilla life much, just as being a submissive doesn't affect how I interact in my vanilla life where I am far more Domly than anything else
<krista-F> may i give my view?
<Achilles{tr}> I expect it is like so many other aspects of BDSM. Some will bring their characteristics more freely across the BDSM/vanilla barrier while others will be more likely to compartmentalize their behaviour patterns.
<BernieRoehl> Of course, krista-F
<krista-F> thank you
<krista-F> i have this view on my submsissive nature.and i find it ofen is across the board..as a Dominant thing as well
<krista-F> my submission....is like music on the radio....on 24/7
<krista-F> always there in the background.....not gone...just background...now
<krista-F> when a song i really like comes on....my ears and mind focus more intently on that particular thing
<krista-F> much as my submission becomes more intensely anoted in certain circumstances
<Achilles{tr}> Yes, I like that image. Meeting someone from the community in vanilla life kind of sparks the level a bit and I do tend to interact with them on a level somewhere between the two.
<krista-F> My former Trainer is always a Dominant
<krista-F> but...he knows when to put that forward more strongly ..depending on the circumstance
<dana^^> krista... that was very well said...
<krista-F> in certain business dealings....one must hang back and let others take over...in order to achive the thing you wish to achieve
<krista-F> thank you dana
<elegantsarah> however, a lot of people who go to pro-Dommes are very powerful in their everyday life, as are many submissive women, I don;t think one can make genralizations
<krista-F> i believe those people...are scening....not living in a certain way elegantsarah
<dana^^> are they submissive or bottoms... i think there is a difference
<motoki> the thing is, it's possible to "be submissive" and to behave assertively, just as it's possible to "be Dominant" and behave in a more humble or behind-the-scenes manner - neither takes away from who the person identifies as, in fact, it adds to it
<krista-F> but acting in a way......does not change core charater motoki
<motoki> my point precisely
<krista-F> it is just a behaviour at a certain time
<elegantsarah> I disagree......how one is in one's professional life does not necessarily translate into what they want in their personal life
<dana^^> i agree motoki...
<Kilted_One> Im sure there are many that are very 'assertive" at work and enjoy surrendering to the right dominant at night or w/e's
<dana^^> difference situations... difference aspects of the personality come into play
<krista-F> i am the boss at work...i have to be.they pay me for that
<motoki> even when i'm assertive at work, when i was in a collared rleationship i still considered it as service to Herself - it fits nicely into the "Make Her Proud" category
<krista-F> but it is not my choice to be so
<motoki> same here, krista - it's draining for me, not energizing
<shareena> i can relate to that krista-F
<krista-F> i have never been collared motoki...so i have to depend upon making me proud
<krista-F> of me
<krista-F> no one else
<dana^^> im the same way krista... high powered position but i much prefer being in a secondary role...
<elegantsarah> in fact, I might say that one of the major things that attracts me to being a submissive is the ability to give up control to another.....and I think calling that "role play" denigrates it
<krista-F> i didn't hear anyone call it that elegantsarah?...did i miss something?
<dana^^> but it could be just that for some elegantsarah... and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that
* motoki notices that the subs are doing all the talking on a topic that concerns the Doms - LOL
<krista-F> this is news motoki?
<krista-F> lol
<dana^^> i just tend to think in terms of a submissive or Dominant nature... its within
<`aymelek> i'm just back, but i think that alot are likely Dom or sub all their lives, this is just an outlet
<dana^^> so... the Ramifications of being a Dom...
<dana^^> smiles...
<Kilted_One> it would appear that it is most definately within based on the latest medical research dana^^
<dana^^> smiles...
<Achilles{tr}> I believe I've already said My piece on the subject. Anyone else?
<dana^^> for myself... it's just part of my personality... who i am but not all that i am... its how i react to situations... or digging deeper to take "charge" depending what is called for
<krista-F> re the vanilla setting...
* `aymelek wonders if there are negative ramifications to being Dom/me
<Achilles{tr}> Do ramifications have to be negative?
<`aymelek> not at all, i was wondering if they could be though
<krista-F> if a Dominant male..and a submissive male...were both waiting to be served at a counter...or wating for a table etc....do you imange the Dominat would get noticed and approached first for service?
<krista-F> imange = imagine
<`aymelek> i did alot of public service when i was younger, and i would say yes, the Dominant One would
<`aymelek> by me anyway *laughs
<dana^^> lol
<Achilles{tr}> Hmmm, have had to deal with some friends reacting negatively to the idea of Me "beating up a woman". Nothing major. They were open to dicussing it and came to better understand for asking Me about it. They have a pretty good opinion of Me in vanilla (being My friends) so wanted to be sure they understood and asked.
<krista-F> so....there is a good ramification of being Domiant perhaps...
<`aymelek> yes krista-F in that respect
<krista-F> did you get the whole "you brute" reaction Sir?
<dana^^> i imagine that would be a very hard image to overcome...
<`aymelek> Achilles{tr} Sir, or Anyone, has being Dominant in the vanilla world had large rammifications, positive or negative?
<`aymelek> other than discussing play and beatings of course, i mean in general
<Achilles{tr}> No... more like, "How can You be sure they really want You to hurt them and enjoy it?", sort of thing. It's a whole other subject. The point was that it was a negative reaction based on My being a Dom.
<krista-F> and comman as well Achilles
<motoki> did you tell them it had something to do with how much she was drooling, Sir?
<`aymelek> sub/slaves get the same though.....
<dana^^> and not knowing much about the "lifestyle"...
<dana^^> lol motoki
<Achilles{tr}> It was easy to turn around and the discussion of My answer is not for tonight but it was there.
* Achilles{tr} chuckles at motoki's comment
<krista-F> how about the reaction of the more dominant vanilla women that Dominant males deal with in the vanilla world?
<Achilles{tr}> On the other hand I don't think anyone has been surprised about which side of the coin i was on.
<`aymelek> my one and only vanilla friend who knows about the "lifestyle" has asked time and time again how i can "do that" whether it is play or obey
<krista-F> i have lost friends thru being who i am....it is just something i have had to deal with
<krista-F> as im sure many others have as well
<elegantsarah> most of the people who know me are surprised at which end of the whip I am on
<dana^^> told a friends... they either laughed thinking i was joking or said get thee to a hospital dana... now i just answer questions when asked
<`aymelek> not me krista-F LOL
<Achilles{tr}> Hmmm, yes... I would have to say I do not work well in environments where there is a woman in charge. That could, perhaps, be associated with My Dominant nature or maybe I'm just a prick to have as an employee if yer a woman. <shrugs>
<`aymelek> sorry that was meant for elegantsarah
<motoki> i think my friends would be surprised, too, elegantsarah (but none of my vanilla friends know)
<krista-F> how about....situations in the vanilla world that bring out your Dominant nature ??
<dana^^> i curious as to how do Dominants handle the times when they need to step in and take charge but other considerations may be an issue... like a work
<Achilles{tr}> Poor service in a restaurant. I hate that and will chase them into the kitchen to get things made right.
<`aymelek> hmmmmmm how about when a Dominant nature HAS to submit to a higher one?
<krista-F> yes.. i have seen that one ..and i have found many Dominants do not like waiting in line for a long time
<motoki> some of that is dominance, but some is plain ol' entitlement
<`aymelek> what if someone with a Dominant nature at work, was told for today they have to clean toilets?
<krista-F> they will just leave...and come back another time
<Achilles{tr}> On the other hand, I make a point to learn the name of the maid taking care of My room if I am staying at a hotel for a period of time.
<krista-F> where a more submissive male will just sigh a lot and wait
<Kilted_One> I clean toilets all the time around here what is the big deal in that
* Achilles{tr} shrugs
* motoki makes a mental note to look into maid-duty in her spare time
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> but krista-F, I know just as many submissives that do not like standing in lines
<krista-F> i don't like it.....but i will do it
<motoki> i detest line-ups, and slow traffic
<`aymelek> KO Sir, what if You are told to, that is what You WILL do for 8 hrs rather than Your regular job
<Achilles{tr}> I'm not sure that would be reserved to sub males or females. Just some people are pretty hung up about not making a fuss these days. Me.. I figure I'm paying THEM and they will give ME My money's worth. Period.
<krista-F> Dominants are more likely to just leave..its not worth it to them to wait.
<motoki> i'm known to leave a cart full of stuff if i get to the check-outs and see that the wait is more than 5 minutes
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> depends on what is at the end of the line
<krista-F> lol....true enough Sir
<Kilted_One> if they are paying me and that is the work that is given, I still dont see the big deal at all
<dana^^> thinks it may depend on how much the Dominant wants something...
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> patience doesnt have anything to do with Dominance or submission
* _dove{S} agrees with Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}
<Kilted_One> most definately Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}, that is ones nature
<krista-F> good Dominants have a great deal of patience...
<dana^^> i agree Kilted One Sir...
<_dove{S}> so do good submissives
<`aymelek> i'm rather surprised a Dominant would take it so well in all honesty *smiles
* Achilles{tr} whispers to motoki that He thinks french maid outfits are pretty hot
<krista-F> but i have found many Dominants believe their time to be of greater value than many others
* motoki makes another mental note to go shopping
<krista-F> present company accepted ..
* Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss} agrees with Achilles{tr}
<Achilles{tr}> Accepted?
<Kilted_One> I havent had any of may submissives or slave being a patient
<krista-F> or is the excepted
<Achilles{tr}> Better. <smiles>
<dana^^> im not sure i agree with that krista...
<motoki> i consider my time precious - how i choose to spend my time is one of the few things i truly own
<krista-F> i probably know more assholes than you is all dana *g*
<Achilles{tr}> "You cannot kill time without wounding eternity."
<dana^^> lol... perfers the term frogs...
<Achilles{tr}> Wasting Mine wastes yours and we both have little enough of it on this earth.
<krista-F> how about when a Dominant must get medical attention and give care over to another?
<motoki> back to that comment about scrubbing toilets - just because it may be an unsavory task (not to make some people's kink any less fun than it is for them), doesn't mean it's not "Domly"
<motoki> Domliness comes from deportment, not any one activity
<krista-F> are there any issues there .
<motoki> as does subliness
<motoki> (is that a word)
<Kilted_One> Ok you got me there krista-F I hate hospital period!!!!
<krista-F> is is now
<dana^^> being Dominant is just how one carries themselves... no matter the task at hand... just as it is for a submissive
<Achilles{tr}> I don't go to Doctors unless there is something busted or gushing blood... I also fdon't go to dentists as many say one should. I suppose this could have something to do with My D/s leanings.. or it could be that I just think they like to make stuff up worse than My mecahnic does on My car so they can fill Me full of pills and clean everything twice a year.
<`aymelek> i meant only if it was not their job, they were Dominant, possibly in a management position, and were given a lower position, it was totally rhetoric
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> krista-F I had first hand experience with a hospital earlier this year and if I handnt handed over responsiblity for my well being to another I would have died
<dana^^> doesnt say typical Male
<Achilles{tr}> Ah, good.. it's just the dhape of My skin. I can live with that.
<motoki> aw, but Achilles, Sir, You're taking away some doctor's fun
<Achilles{tr}> shape
<krista-F> im not trying to be argumentivie or confrontational...just trying to keep the discussion going by posing different scenerios
<dana^^> and doing well krista... making us think... smiles...
<krista-F> not being Dom...i have no idea if they are correct or not
<krista-F> ok....here is one
* `aymelek was doing the same
<krista-F> police men
<krista-F> are Doms more confrontational with law enforcment types?
<Achilles{tr}> Keep in mind dana^^ that I live with two women, both of whom go to doctors and dentists regularly and both of whom are on several chronic pill prescriptions and have more holes drilled in their teeth each year than I've had all My life.
<QTIP> i've tried out the aloof and condescending demeanor thing. it's not me. i've looked into the eyes of a willing "victim" after being rather cruel and brutal with her and thought, "i care for you."
<dana^^> yes Achilles Sir... though i do find that the Gentlemen are not as uh.. interested in checking out their health issues as the ladies...
* motoki coughs and blurts out "denial"
<QTIP> i cared for "the mom-Domme" during her lengthy demise too. that taught me surrender on one hand (no controlling mom's health), but it also gave me practice in asking questions health care workers probably rarely hear
<krista-F> all i know is that Trainer Sir hated having to have me help him ....with everything when he broke his wrist
<dana^^> being aloof and condescending has its place too QTIP but i do understand what you are saying
<QTIP> i can play that role. it's just not what i'd rather use
<QTIP> trying to maintain that demeanor...well, it's not me
<Achilles{tr}> I've never had a problem being polite to people with guns.
<dana^^> lol
* `aymelek laughs, that'd be easy!
<Achilles{tr}> Security guards, however, can blow Me.
<krista-F> good thinking Achilles{tr}...
<motoki> rotfl - similarly, Sir, i've never had a problem being polite to people with singletails, canes, and other implements of torture
<Achilles{tr}> Figuratively speaking.
<dana^^> i usually just nod and mumble at that point motoki...
<QTIP> IMO, good manners reflect self-respect ;-)
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> agreed QTIP
<`aymelek> being courteous can be soooo easy if the right tools are in the other hand
<elegantsarah> oh, I can be rude to those, just sometimes regret it
<krista-F> well....you know how well mannered i am Q-tip Sir
<motoki> of course, some may look upon good manners in the context of a Dom holding a singletail as a convoluted way of "topping from the bottom"-- but that's not tonite's discussion topic so i digress
<QTIP> to those for whom i've got little regard, i do enjoy being quite cooly polite ;-)
<QTIP> you're a sweetie-pie krista-f
<krista-F> undress??...oh sorry.....misread
<krista-F> thank you Sir
<Achilles{tr}> Between people, "not saying", and, "Not digressing", we're having a very polite discussion.
<krista-F> what a concept!!!!
<Achilles{tr}> I think I would, overall, have to say that being a Dominant type of person and an oft proclaimed, "Bad Boy", I like how this has worked for Me throughout My life... both BDSM and vanilla... and definitely agree that there is flow between the two sides of My life... well, those two sides.
<Achilles{tr}> My life is certainly more complex than just BDSM and vanilla.
<`aymelek> i know i will make more of an effort to know Achilles{tr} and be more comfortable saying at the very least, "hello"
<Achilles{tr}> Just be ready to explain your answers to My questions clearly and precisely.
* Achilles{tr} smiles pleasantly
<motoki> rotfl
<`aymelek> ack......*laughs
<krista-F> lol
<motoki> <--no comment
* Achilles{tr} figured motoki would like that
<`aymelek> oh oh, maybe no hello
* `aymelek will continue to avoid Him
<Achilles{tr}> But there are, perhaps, others would find they can keep their BDSM Dominant side and their vanilla lives more seperate. More clearly divided.
<Achilles{tr}> Any takers out there?
<krista-F> for?
<`aymelek> i have a hard time with that, i was turned down for a position in the factory i work in because "to quote" i was not aggressive enough
<`aymelek> i was too submissive
<Achilles{tr}> WI was wondering if any Dom's in channel would care to comment in the affirmative. That They keep the two sides more apart than I do.
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> no Achilles{tr}, I cant say that I keep them seperated. I am who I am.
<Achilles{tr}> Funnily enough `aymelek... that doesn't happen to Me.
<`aymelek> go figure *laughs
* Achilles{tr} nods to His Friend Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}
<Achilles{tr}> WHat about You KO?
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<Achilles{tr}> ...or BernieRoehl?
<Achilles{tr}> .. or heck, ModBot?
<Kilted_One> I am who I am all day every day take me or leave me
<`aymelek> anyone? *lau8ghs
<krista-F> i think ModBot is a kind of one dimensional kind of guy
* Achilles{tr} nods to KO and agrees with Him whole heartedly
<Achilles{tr}> So it would seem We all pretty much live Our lives as Dominant types of people and to ask us for ramifications puts us in a spot. We don't know what Our lives would be like if we were any other way. <shrugs>
<Kilted_One> and I do think that the dominant nature helps me at work as I am one of the few that can get the job done, that is the whole job done, most get 90% and then loose interest. Im the go to guy still
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> well said Achilles{tr}
<Achilles{tr}> Thank You Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}
<motoki> i'd be more curious about the ramifications associated with "being a Dom" in terms of how one relates to oneself - how one makes difficult decisions, how one determines when they need help from someone else vs. when they don't vs. when their pride is getting in the way, etc, etc
<motoki> but that's probably beyond the scope of the 5-min call
<Achilles{tr}> Afraid so motoki. Just time to place yer last drink orders and make sure ya have a date to go home with before the place closes.
* motoki gulps realizing she has a drink, but no date
* Achilles{tr} chuckles
<`aymelek> i have been asked for help when it's needed, without a second thought....i've also been told to do things i know he could do for Himself....lol
<Achilles{tr}> That's something leaning more towards questions of service.
<`aymelek> nods
<Achilles{tr}> Why do We let you do things for Us that We coudl easily do for Ourselves?
* Achilles{tr} grins
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informally. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<`aymelek> because we like to do them?