October 2, 2005 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Dropping and Aftercare". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<`abi{A}> http://www.deliriumclothing.com/
<jewel`{F}> oh thank you much
<paperclip[B]> :)
<paperclip[B]> hmm perhaps i don't have much to say on this topic tonight. i'm not one to drop.
<cate> but you get after care don't you?
<krista-F> i'm just here for the refreshments
<paperclip[B]> yeah, i guess i do. LOL
<abitbent> is dropping another word for "coming down"?
<paperclip[B]> i'm assuming it does.
<Jaysker{padma}> what do people mean by dropping? for them..
<jen{SE}> always thought of dropping as the during the scene, the coming down after the scene
<Jaysker{padma}> yah, i think of dropping as the 'getting into scene space' mentally
<motoki> there's dropping during a scene, and so-called "sub-drop" after the scene
<paperclip[B]> i don't really into 'sub space' the way most tend to, i don't have the "drop" that some apparently do. i need little aftercare after play. at least that's how i see me.
<jen{SE}> me too, i don't drop and i just want to get my clothes back on and off the floor asap after the scene.. *lol*
<paperclip[B]> lol
<abitbent> i recall my first play experience with my first Domme... (fond memories, She's so sweet).. ahem... anyway, aftercare seems to be something that was a little more intimate than she was willing to go. I just recall feeling very cold and helpless after play was over. i didn't even know what coming down was at that point, but i knew something was missing. So it's important i'd say.
<Jaysker{padma}> that makes sense
<Jaysker{padma}> i guess i wonder what makes the play appealing to subs if they don't drop into sub space?
<jen{SE}> question? What do you require as aftercare (general question)
<abitbent> i'd suggest that a Top might need aftercare as well though... for both to feel that connection.
<paperclip[B]> well, i get a bit clingy sometimes...mostly i just feel drunk and thirsty. as far as the care is concerned, Bill always makes sure to have water for me and not leave my side for a bit.
<motoki> i don't need a lot immediately after a scene - but i do crave connection some time afterwards - even as simple as exchanging a few words about our different perspectives of the scene, talking about favorite parts, etc
<Jaysker{padma}> i always think of a drink, and a blanket sometimes or a wrap, and some skin time
* jen{SE} does not think alcohol spray on the cuts after counts as aftercare SE does but then He is a sadist *lol*
<motoki> but sometimes the "connection" i've had after a scene is a kick, or a foot on my back, or alcohol on my wounds
<motoki> lol jen
<paperclip[B]> play is still fun with the sub space Jaysker{padma}
<paperclip[B]> without, i meant to say LOL
<Jaysker{padma}> i believe you completely - i think i find the subspace so entrancing it is hard for me to imagine playing without it
<paperclip[B]> ah
<jen{SE}> subspace is kindof like the female ejaculation, some do, some don't but the orgasm regardless is good
<paperclip[B]> perhaps there are various forms of sub space. i just automatically equate sub space as that trancelike way people get into.
<Jaysker{padma}> fair enough
<kierana{DRFL}> not all sub-space is the same...that's my opinion, anyways
<paperclip[B]> i'll agree with that.
<jen{SE}> subspace or headspace are they the same?
<paperclip[B]> no, i'd say they aren't jen{SE}
<abitbent> headspace is more of an attitude or mood isn't it?
<kierana{DRFL}> nahhh headspace is how you go into the scene...subspace is how you come out of the scene hopefully
<paperclip[B]> i'd think so.
* jen{SE} vs headcase *grins*, just a joke....
<paperclip[B]> lol
<Jaysker{padma}> teehee
<kierana{DRFL}> lol
<abitbent> How important is aftercare to a Top?
<Jaysker{padma}> it depends i think
<jen{SE}> depends on the top much like the bottom, some need it some dont'
<paperclip[B]> i'd say that play without aftercare is like having sex with someone only to have them roll over and immediately leave when finished. thoughts on that?
<abitbent> i agree paperclip[B]...
<jen{SE}> but i think there is always a version of aftercare as Motoki said, "connection" between two partners after a scene
<Jaysker{padma}> i need to establish some aftercare exchange after - providing aftercare and connection allows me to come out of scene space as well
<cate> sounds like my last marriage paperclip[B]
<paperclip[B]> lmao!
<jen{SE}> depends on the dynamics of the relationship
<cate> i used to get up and leave
<motoki> aftercare varies so much - one submissive's preference another might abhor
<paperclip[B]> lol cate
<paperclip[B]> true enough motoki
<jen{SE}> if i am being used as property... the aftercare would be different than if i was being used as a lover
<motoki> yes - sometimes aftercare "needs" really have little to do with the scene itself, and everything to do with the headspace going into the scene
<abitbent> true jen{SE}... then absence of aftercare would actually be part of that particular scene.
<jen{SE}> *lol*, i've seen SE bend down ask "you breathing girl?", i nod, He says good and wanders off.. He knows that works for me
<spirited_sassy{CP}> lol
<motoki> :)
<jen{SE}> i have also had a couple of really intense scenes where if He tried to touch me after, i would bolt,
<spirited_sassy{CP}> i have done that before
<motoki> or bite
<motoki> can't say i've done that, but it's crossed my mind more than once
<abitbent> so the correct form of aftercare would be leaving you alone in that instance.
<jen{SE}> others scenes no better place than kneeling with my head in his lap... so what i need after a scene changes from scene to scene
<jen{SE}> yes abitbent
<spirited_sassy{CP}> i have to agree jen{SE} depending on the scene
<jen{SE}> though i have learned not to end a scene with the question "Is that it?"
<spirited_sassy{CP}> the aftercare i need can differ
<motoki> lol
<motoki> i like being on my knees and in the background, somehow "connected" although not necessarily close
<jen{SE}> agrees spirited_sassy{CP}
<jen{SE}> Though it does make it a little tough on the top... okay, what does she want now... none, cuddle, etc..
<kierana{DRFL}> i usually need "cuddle" time to recover, i've found without that i can still be affected 2 days later *shrugs*
<`abi{A}> do aftercare needs change if you're scening with someone other than your primary partner?
<motoki> yes, it can last for days
<jen{SE}> yes for me it does
<motoki> whether i'm scening with primary partner or not, i have found that i crave connection *with* primary partner at some point afterwards
* jen{SE} *lol*, though i have not scened with anyone but SE in quite awhile so not sure anymore
<abitbent> i agree motoki... i'd rather be with my primary partner after.
<Guest8056> hello all
<spirited_sassy{CP}> it does for me `abi{A}
<Guest8056> ??After care
<`abi{A}> now, is that because the space you inhabit after a scene is more intimate than the scene itself?
<abitbent> emotional/physical attention after play Guest8056
<Guest8056> IC thanks
<motoki> hmmm interesting question abi
<`abi{A}> or because if you're going to bite someone it should be your owner ;)
<kierana{DRFL}> lol
<motoki> lol
<motoki> for me, it's because that's where my primary "tie" is - that's where i can feel centered and "myself"
<abitbent> i find aftercare helps me validate who i am to my primary partner
<`abi{A}> howso abitbent?
<jen{SE}> hmm, not sure, (well the biting part i am sure about *grins*), but as to other part, maybe part of it is, i am not in a scene with another unless He sends me there, He still maintains the ownership and the control, it is still Him i am representing
<abitbent> i guess in the end of it all, i'd only be playing with another Top, to please my primary partner.
<motoki> that's part of it for me, too, jen
<jen{SE}> i am always His responsibility
<spirited_sassy{CP}> i agree jen i need to know that i did ok with other partner
<spirited_sassy{CP}> and i need it from my Master
<jen{SE}> nods exactly, it's His approval i want and need
<spirited_sassy{CP}> yepper
<motoki> nods nods
<abitbent> agrees
<motoki> it could have been an amazing scene with someone else, but without that "good girl" (whether in words, a look, or an action) from #1, it doesn't matter
<abitbent> validation from Him motoki?
<motoki> i suppose - just that connection
<abitbent> anyone ever had a bad experience with aftercare?
<motoki> i can't think of a bad experience with aftercare - it all gets ironed out eventually in my experience
<`abi{A}> I wouldn't say 'bad'...but I've encountered difficulties
<motoki> my biggest difficulty is when i'm feeling really vulnerable, especially when i feel as though i'm going to dissolve into tears
<spirited_sassy{CP}> yes me too `abi{A}
<`abi{A}> I have had 'helpful' DMs try to sneak up and offer blankets .. but they were waved off before I bit them
<motoki> lol that happened once to me, too abi
<abitbent> :)
<`abi{A}> and I frequently have trouble when people try to talk to me post scene when I'm feeling non-verbal
<motoki> not a DM, but a well-meaning but misinformed person LOL
<spirited_sassy{CP}> helpful DM's have tried to help us too and have gotten an earful
<abitbent> perhaps to the uninformed... aftercare can be misunderstood at times.
<`abi{A}> in truth they are trying to be helpful, but it's important to know that, as we've seen discussed here tonight, people have vastly different aftercare needs
<motoki> nods
<spirited_sassy{CP}> yep
<motoki> i realized the other day when i was talking about this subject that some of my "different needs" have to do with just not ever experiencing "another way"
<motoki> for example, i've never experienced cuddling and a blanket for aftercare
<spirited_sassy{CP}> i have experienced a variety of different ways and i like them all
<motoki> all i know is that what i have experienced has worked for me
<motoki> sassy do you find that you crave a particular way after some scenes?
<bathroomslave-m> hello all
<abitbent> that's all that matters i'm guessing motoki
<`abi{A}> We don't have a 'standard' aftercare....but in general, the aftercare is a continuation of the scene dynamic ... and that works for me
<spirited_sassy{CP}> nope cause i ask for the type of care i get
<spirited_sassy{CP}> so i am never left craving
<motoki> doesn't that mean you do crave certain things so you ask for it? i guess that's what i meant
<jen{SE}> ben & jerry's
<spirited_sassy{CP}> no cause if Sir chooses to do a different aftercare then what i want that is ok too
<`abi{A}> does anyone incorporate ritual into their aftercare?
<jen{SE}> besides cleaning the equipment...
<spirited_sassy{CP}> yeah i'm with jen{SE}
<spirited_sassy{CP}> and pack the toys
* `abi{A} nods...repacking the toys is an important ritual for me
<motoki> repacking the toys makes me really anxious
<spirited_sassy{CP}> i like to repack them cause that way they are nice and neat
<jen{SE}> SE has always preferred to pack the toys
<motoki> most of the time, that's been the same for me, jen (i.e., it's not me who repacks)
<spirited_sassy{CP}> yep it is me motoki
<spirited_sassy{CP}> that's my job and i like it
<abitbent> important for you abi or just important because it's expected of you.
<jen{SE}> *lol*
<`abi{A}> it does a couple of things for me. It makes me focus, it gives me the opportunity to reflect on each one as I replace it, it continues the dynamic of the scene and it is an act of service
<bathroomslave-m> so where do you live motoki
<motoki> i mean in all of the D/s and scene relationships i've been in sassy
<abitbent> :)
<`abi{A}> an important expectation abitbent
<spirited_sassy{CP}> lol
<spirited_sassy{CP}> i like the praise i get when the toy bag is done right
<abitbent> rituals are wonderful for headspace i find.
<jen{SE}> gym bag packing is that way for me
<jen{SE}> though unpacking the gym bag after not as much fun *smiles*, reminds me of hockey bags.. phew!!
<motoki> lol
<spirited_sassy{CP}> lol
* jen{SE} has found some great scent balls etc.. for the bag..
<jen{SE}> though also learned, not to get the flowery ones *grins*....
<jen{SE}> have to get the manly smell ones
<motoki> old spice
<spirited_sassy{CP}> eeeeeeeewwwwww
<jen{SE}> though on a serious note, i like the idea of rituals after a scene, something to think on
<motoki> i'm trying to think of rituals i've had immediately after a scene
<jen{SE}> SE is not huge on rituals we have few we follow
<motoki> apart from cleaning the equipment (and even that i'm not always required to do depending on a few variables), i haven't had many
<`abi{A}> in addition to the toybag...we have replacing scene cuffs with walking-around cuffs... in a very specific way
<`abi{A}> and some others that depend on the scene we're coming out of
<jen{SE}> do you find the ritual helps you to come back
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<`abi{A}> no, I find that ritual helps to 'solidify' the scene experience
<`abi{A}> ritual links the scene to relationship
<motoki> i find that being told "get up slut" does that for me
<motoki> :)
<`abi{A}> well, maybe that's a ritual then motoki
<jen{SE}> nods, good food for thought
<abitbent> ritual can be an opportunity to prove my dedication, and i rarely pass up on making Her proud of me.
<motoki> well, the thing is it's never the same thing
<jen{SE}> *smiles*, dedication for me is seeing those canes come out and not running the other way.... just kidding
<motoki> lol
<abitbent> :P
<`abi{A}> we do many different kinds of scenes, the aftercare changes, the dynamic doesn't change. The aftercare rituals are part of the dynamic.
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informally. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<spirited_sassy{CP}> i agree `abi{A}