October 1 2000 EhBC Online Discussion

<MsMaTiia> shall I start KO?
<Kilted_One> sure go for it
<Masterguny> hi there
* MsMaTiia Good Evening A/all, I am Tiia, your moderator
<DarkAngel^> back
<MsMaTiia> Too many people take cyberdomming and cyberplay too lightly
<MsMaTiia> They feel that just because the other is not in the room, they are safe
* Kilted_One reminds everyone that this is being logged and will be posted to the web page....please change your nick or leave if this offends you in any way.
<MsMaTiia> However, the risk is really that the toher is not in the room ... the M (Mistress/Master/Top)
<malechattel{MMT}> Who is safe, the sub or the Dominant?
<MsMaTiia> the M is not there to give proper aftercare ... or to call 911 if anything ever goes wrong.
<LrdThomas> is after care needed for typing scenes?
* Kilted_One wonders if there is many here that actually do cyber??
<MsMaTiia> many a submissive actually plays out all the commands and will feel just like the M is right there to help
<tvsubbie4you> the thing is...the sub can, at any time, click that little x in the corner of the screen...
* zee_LQ raises her hand slightly to KO's question
<MsMaTiia> but is he/she subspaces, he/she could collapse, fall out of a chair etc.
* canplay shivers at thought that some take cyber seriously
* DarkAngel^ did cyber
* Demoneira doesn't
<tawny^^{_ZZ}> maybe if the Dom is teaching self inflicted pain, or thebsub or slave are following orders or something a newbie???
<zee_LQ> used to Sir..not as much anymore.. are You asking of sex only or other things?
<dalian> just because they are typed does not mean that they are not *felt* as far as the energy passed to one another is concerned
<MsMaTiia> there are many in the community who do cyber even though they also play in RT
* DarkAngel^ became involved with 2 subs online since he released his R/L slave in Jan ,,,
* autumn`breeze{JFC} can't get into subbie space over a computer
<MarlinDom> a reaction to the writen word is not always unexpected
<canplay> can only submit to a Dom that is in same room as her
* DarkAngel^ had intended it just to get to know them, experiment, see how their mind worked
<Demoneira> well is this cyber-Domming in general or with someone you've actually been with offline as well.. or are with?
<LrdThomas> well, a dom who can't do cyberaftercare, sure isn't excerising much responsiblity. and ain't that what mastery is about... responsible control?
<MsMaTiia> Also if you the M do not take it seriously ... then NEVER suggest anything that could damage the submissive .... example "BenGay"
* DarkAngel^ no longer does ANY cyber ,, after realizing they never meant to meet ,, just wanted cyber and phone
<Masterguny> nipple clamps for oh 5 hours
<canplay> a cyber Dom may just be that wacko from nextdoor, or a kid
<MarlinDom> ::::looking at tube of BenGay on my desk
<MsMaTiia> yes, there are many players out there who will only cyber .... and that hurts the serious ones who would like to meet
<Sweetone{LT}> is cyber a way to 'feel' the fantasy without reality being part??
* zee_LQ hides MarlinDom tube
<Demoneira> well actually Masterguny, since you mentioned it,, it takes a lot longer to type out commands than issue them.. how would someone works around that?
<MarlinDom> lol
<DarkAngel^> I think there is nothing at all with cyber ,,,
<zee_LQ> i use cyber to experiment with things i am not ready to try in real life.. at this point
<MarlinDom> just plain ole Marlin is fine zee
<MsMaTiia> But we all know os subs and Doms who got into this lifestyle just because of chatrooms and cyberplay.
<dalian> possibly Sweetone...but also may be a way for a submissive to feel that control if a r/l possibility is not present in their lives
<DarkAngel^> I just feel that there shouldnt be any lies about where it leads to
<LrdThomas> cyber folk deserve each other.... let em mix up the ky and tobasco sauce... it ain't hard to program a popup for "ouch!"
<zee_LQ> yes Marlin Sir.. *stifles the 'plain old' part
<canplay> has never cybered,, just can't seem to orgasm and type at same time
<Masterguny> Cyber is fine in combination with real and is shows the imagination and connection you can make with mind alone
<Demoneira> I don't cyber because I haven;'t tried something r/l zee.. since I want r/l I'd feel like I were lying if I pretended to like something only to discover I didn't
<DarkAngel^> I agree Masterguny
<Demoneira> I wouldn't want to mislead a potential playmate that way...
<yu4ia> I think the role of the computer has brought out a lot of R/T that otherwise would have been kept a fantasy
<canplay> oh come on Masterguny, how do You know You are not speaking with a 16 yr old boy?
<canplay> Y/you can learn from online,,but to play is another story
<zee_LQ> Demoneira Ma'am.. i am r/l Ma'am and i don't pretend to like something.. i use it as a means to see how i feel about something and am honest on line if it erks me or eeeks me
<MarlinDom> I know for myself I would never have discovered the world of bdsm without the online experience
<MarlinDom> first
<Sweetone{LT}> dalian...there are always choices...it's living with the consequences...if one sticks to cyber to make up for something missing in their present situation...how honest is that?
<MsMaTiia> ans zee, that is a healthy attitude towards cyber and trying new things
<Masterguny> I have had Subs in the US long ago and 90% was cyber..its all inreading and being real about it
<DarkAngel^> yes,, same here MarlinDom
<LrdThomas> canplay... for me it is the golden on-line rule... neither believe nor disbelieve anything anyone says, till i've met em in person, or some i know has and can vouch for em.
* Kilted_One found irc before r/l but didnt/couldnt get into cybering
<dalian> and cyber is experienced differently by the individual..most of us would agree that a cyber flogging is a complete waste of time...impossible to feel...but submission from a non sexual context can be rewarding to those who may not have the opportunity for a r/l relationship
<Masterguny> Yes I caught gays trying to be fem subs but that is easy to spot
<MarlinDom> Cyber play is a lot like a mail order hair cut
<MsMaTiia> I am not saying cyberplay doesn't work ... it is because it does work that the sub could be physically or worse yet emotionally harmed
<MarlinDom> however strong emotional ties can develop
<canplay> i read web pages of bdsm, i chatted in D/s sites,,but still no need to cyber play to learn.
<Demoneira> well I agree canplay... can't you learn just as well from asking questions?
<MarlinDom> one of the foundations of any relationship is communication....thats really all that can be done online
<MsMaTiia> yes, we are all different I too have not cyberdommed but for two years I was the highest paid phone sex operator in Toronto .... smae thing ... I wan not there ... just my voice
<Masterguny> everyone is different and some can't at all but otherstell you so much about them that in real time ytou have much information to use
<MsMaTiia> and as a RL Domme I did BDSM calls very carefullt.
<DarkAngel^> cyber and phone isnt too different
<Demoneira> I would feel rather stupid kneeling in front of my screen or something... and having to type, and think ahead would rather ruin the point of the exercise for me
<LrdThomas> i would like the proponents of cyber to answer me this.... how do you take serious responsibility for someone over this medium? how deep can this cyber thing go, when you never even meet the person and on;y "so-call" control them when they deem its conveninet to be on-line.
* canplay nods to Dem
<zee_LQ> canplay and Demoneira.. there are all types of learning. i learn best from being put in the position to feel it sense it.. certain things are safer for me on line.. for now
<DarkAngel^> but Demoneira , it certainly is nice to chat so to a potential mate
<MarlinDom> there is something wrong with feelin stupid????Demoneira???
<yu4ia> Cyber or phone does increase the lust for an welcomed meeting
<MarlinDom> hehe
* DarkAngel^ certainly is interested if a sub chatting/cybering cant manage more than OOoooohhh ,, yesss,, or MMmmm
<tawny^^{_ZZ}> chatting and meeting, but once you know what r/l is cyberplay just lacks...
<Masterguny> it can be very deep and its not flogging etc but clamping and other things vcan cum or not cum to mind..and secrets shared
<Demoneira> maybe, but discussing the finer points of a possible encounter seems to acheive that without having to go through the motions DA
* His`lil`kitten agrees with yu4ia, but what if it's a strictly o/l relationship? no meeting...?
<yu4ia> meetings are the culminating moment of euphoria
<DarkAngel^> I think it can add to a R/L relationship ,,especially one that is strained by distance ,,
<Masterguny> I was on AOL for about three years with only Americans and it worked very well..when you finally meet..if you have been truthful you are already at step two or three
<dalian> if communication is the key to the foundation of D/s...then how can countless exchanges of conversation over a period of even years be deemed to have no worth...words do have power depending on the individuals behind them
* Kilted_One knights Justice^ with his @ "I knight thee, SIR Justice^"
<canplay> i have met many from online,,i did not need to feign cyber with them first
<Sweetone{LT}> how does one truly feel their submission if they can't look into their dom's eyes as he is telling her that she is precious...that she makes him proud...
<Demoneira> well now that is different to me DA.. if I were online with someone I have played with in r/l.. I know their style.. then maybe I could get a little out of it.. but there's only so many ways to describe an action..
<MarlinDom> as long as the conversations were truthful they have worth
<`abi> consider the possibility that cyber is a *different* kind of BDSM ... one that offers it's own unique sensations and experiences...it doesn't necessarily need to be related to r/l BDSM
<canplay> open and honest communication is not close to cyber
<MsMaTiia> If you are going to take this cyberplay as serious, make sure partner is also serious and not just "toying" with you
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> i can't imagine an o/l M telling me to give a blow job to a dilldo and expecting me to get into subbie space
<MarlinDom> hmmmm
<MsMaTiia> If you don't intend to meet him/her, you should be upfront with them
<canplay> thank you autumn :-)
<MsMaTiia> if you little or no experience also be honest about that
<MarlinDom> <~~pondering autumn breeze's statement
* Demoneira nods at Tiia.. and what about cyber-predators? people that cyber-dom to
<Kilted_One> LT and Sweetone you both come from strong r/l backgrounds and not cyber, so how can you dismiss cyber without having experienced it
* DarkAngel^ would never cyber,, except as teasing/play acompanying R/L
<yu4ia> online could sort out desires and fetishes sorted out before meeting to heighten the experience
<Demoneira> get a reaction.. as a game? (oops)
<MarlinDom> <~~had a visual is that cyber?
<MarlinDom> hehe
<dalian> i honestly believe if the individuals are open and honest with each other...online can be a benefit
* zee_LQ thinks any interaction with another if both are honest is a growing and learning experience
<His`lil`kitten> so if there's no meet intended, then cyber is the best you can do, is it sufficient for many, or does it just create longing?
<Masterguny> I traveled from Pheonix to florida,texas, Balitmore Washington, new york and everyone was a rewarding experiance based on a cyber start
<MsMaTiia> cyber-predators are everywhere ... just like there are predators at singles bars ....
<MarlinDom> I would think that is dependant on the individual kitten
<Dr_Eva> and munches?
<zee_LQ> there is always longing. and frustration can do it in... though for many.. this is all they can afford in their life for now.. better this then nothing???
<Demoneira> I'm not sure.. I've known Foxx for nearly two years online and I've learned a hell of a lot and cyber has never been a factor
<DarkAngel^> now Dr_Eva ,,, I semi-behave at munches
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> not me Marlin Sir
<LrdThomas> easily KO.... it has no meaning to me as to what the core values of relationships are. Who wants to have a relationship with a pixel. Do i want a life partner on the screen? do i want to love someone i can't look at as she sleeps? this is about relationships in the here and now and building a life together KO... not some silly sex game typed to order.
* canplay looks at DA
<MsMaTiia> we hope not ... but we really don't know, do we/ here's where you have to use plain common sense
<Dr_Eva> silly sex games can lead to real life meetings
<Demoneira> we all saw you on the grope side of the table DA
<DarkAngel^> wont do that again Demoneira
<TheWolfe> silly to you LT...and not something that I would find satisfying, but meaningful to others
<Kilted_One> because it has no meaning to you does that mean it has no meaning for everyone LT??
<canplay> i met my last Master from online,, but only got name and # and went for coffee
<Dr_Eva> I like to send suggestions via cyber, to keep the sub interested
<Masterguny> I had two subs move in with me based on cyber relationship and then real time play..for long distance it can fill the gap..
<LrdThomas> thats right TW... silly to me. that is all i offered as asked. what others do ain't my biz.
<LrdThomas> KO, ask everyone, i offered my opionion as asked.
<TheWolfe> lol
<Rishard> true enough LrdThomas .. however .. the fact there are keyboards between us does *not* negate the fact that there are people involved .. Myself, rl has a *much* greater draw than quote unquote online .. but .. but .. but .. I've made some good freiendships here .. and I've learnt a lot of Myself, and others, here .. and learnt a great deal re the *pyschology* of D/s
<dalian> i would hardly think of one whom i'm communicating with online in any capacity as a mere pixel
<MsMaTiia> Cyber can be a place to actually meet your mate ... witness how many of us Canadians have US partners... and some have got married too
<jen^^> can be anyone on the other side of screen, you really don't know who you are talking too, not satisfying in any way shape or form
<Demoneira> I like the idea of saying ok.. this is a thought, does it appeal to you? but not so sure about an online "scene"
<Dr_Eva> exactl;y what happened to me
<LrdThomas> i too have met some who have become r/l firneds on here Rishard, but we aren't talking about friends, we are talking about cybering.
<TheWolfe> cyber scenes as opposed to chat
<MsMaTiia> yes, the actual play .... and consequences of the play
<canplay> i think M/many are missing the point that is being discussed,, not meeting or talking ,,,but cyberplay!!!
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> i agree meeting ppl online is fine but scening????
<DarkAngel^> I think we all have levels ,, many of us have been lucky to jump right into R/L,,, others have started their exploration in this fasion ,,, kudos to them
* tawny^^{_ZZ} tiptoes out...
<Rishard> point taken .. but the *friendships* *came* from the expression of wot we were, *here,* via quote unquote cybering ..
<Demoneira> meeting I've done... but if you cyber someone you've never met, does that not raise THEIR expectations of you when you DO meet?
<MsMaTiia> scening is done and can be done on cyber .... ask my many fem sub friends who cybered first and then came out to play in RL
<His`lil`kitten> but you can cyberplay with someone as a strictly o/l thing, or it can be a prelude to a serious r/l thing, I think it was just a tangent...
<yu4ia> cyberplayon ongoing timeline would be futile but maybe enjoyable by some
* `abi spent her fair share of time cyberscening ... it's very different from r/l for sure, but I found it, for a time at least, a very creative and pleasant activity ... and I learned alot about some very good people who I never met, and for whom cyber was a significant experience
<LrdThomas> i will accept your argument Rishard, but disagree with the path.
<Sweetone{LT}> and if the sub no longer wants to cyber..she hits the x...and that teaches her what for real life?
<Sweetone{LT}> that she can submit when it is convenient?
<dalian> is she a sub then?
<yu4ia> I would prefer a cyberplay as a pretext of the things to come
<MarlinDom> how to use a Safe Word Sweetone
<jen^^> or easy to say oops computer crashed
<Sweetone{LT}> but cyber teaches you that the sub is in control
<canplay> i think too many get hurt with online experiements
<MsMaTiia> teaches her she only wants to play "at it" not really play it
<dalian> maybe i come from a far different experience with so called cyber
<TheWolfe> cyner Dom/mes can also hit the X
<Demoneira> got a question then abi.. would it have been different if the cyber-scene had been something you've never experienced or knew the feeling of?
<MsMaTiia> There are many stories, some great .... some very ugly!
<Sweetone{LT}> and the dom no longer wants to play with her or accept any responsibility so he goes on invisible to her? or ignores her?
<dalian> if both parties are serious....the issue of hitting the "x" doesn't even come into play
<Masterguny> not if done right Sweetone{LT} in my case she must do what I tell her and if not there are punishments but you must use the mind more and be creative..even r/t if you don't want to you can walk away....
<`abi> it sometimes was Demoneira ... cyber was a way, as zee aluded to...to explore how I felt about some new ideas
<malechattel{MMT}> we must be on a different dalnat server, don't know.
<`firestar> wow all lone, what happened?
* Rishard speaks carefully .. the problem comes, I believe, when the idea of predator comes into matters .. Master/Dom .. or sub/slave .. if this is a game for one .. and taken at face value, by the other .. *that's* when rel damage can be done
<malechattel{MMT}> welcome back everyone, firestar and i were getting lonely
<His`lil`kitten> and is clicking the X too different from safing out? It's possible to be in an o/l scene and start thinking "this guy is a NUT, lemme OUT!"
<LrdThomas> Guny, can you give us an example you have used of cyber punishment you have found effective?
<Masterguny> I found cyber much harder..but showed them I knew my craft
<canplay> i agree Rishard
<Masterguny> nipple clamps..orgasm control...not comunicating
<MarlinDom> better to find that out online than when you are all trussed up kitten
<Demoneira> but Masterguny, how do you know they are even obeying you?
<LrdThomas> and you are sure she did these things are you?
<His`lil`kitten> agreed fully, MarlinDom
<`firestar> umm is anyone here??
<TheWolfe> the transition *if made * from cyber to r/l can be quite a shock though
<Demoneira> If I say I'm putting on nip clamps right now.. am I?
<His`lil`kitten> you trust that they are obeying you... I think that's an important factor involved..
<zee_LQ> `firestar.. we aer here.. she is split and her first time on mirc
<MarlinDom> it was not for me Wolfe
<DarkAngel^> but if they are obeying ,, and interested.. it could lead to a wonderful R/L
<Rishard> as to when 8both* are taking this at face value, then, *yes* .. through the fact you are *displeased* is in *itself* a form of punishment, where *volitional* slavery is in effect .. *because* such is based on respect and trust
<^brat{SteelBlue}> i found playing online to be a pre-cursor to "crossing the chasm"...i learned a lot about myself before i ventured into r/l situations, and had some idea what i needed/wanted. However, once that chasm was crossed, I never went back to cyber, or wanted to go back to cyber.
<concubinary> I agree TheWolfe, and many people believe they have experience when it's just cyber experience - can be a huge shock
<MarlinDom> I still have a bit of difficulty reading someones profile in R/t but I manage
* concubinary agrees with brat
<Demoneira> yes TheWolfe.. telling me something hurts doesn't make me realize how much
<dalian> depends on the relationship...if it is close enough i believe one can tell simply by the responses given by intense communication
<His`lil`kitten> well, if you were sceneing HEAVILY o/l, can you 'really' take off where you left off in real? I don't think I could... It's night and day.
<Masterguny> if they don't then what is gained..if you don't have truth you have nothing
<jen^^> tone is so important in a relationship, things get misunderstood sometimes when you cannot read body language or hear tone or other non verbal signals
<canplay> to me D/s is too deep to playout online, it is body language and eyes
<^brat{SteelBlue}> i started at the beginning in both places...online and r/l... the online stuff just gave me a "clue" that I wouldnt' have otherwise had
<pieceofheaven1> greetings
* LrdThomas prefers his lessons and punishments arre known to be effective, and finds the only way to ensure that is looking in her eye.
<Demoneira> I have found people can generally by more forcefull online.. I need that tone of voice.. to know they'll back it up
<canplay> so true Dem
<MarlinDom> hmmmm
<Rishard> hrrrm .. this might be the issue .. "scening" versus "submission" .. Myself, I tend more towards *ownership,* per se, as opposed to scening .. where just a "session" is involve, then, *yes*, I can see LrdThomas' point .. it becomes more a matter of how well you can type, how imaginative you are .. such, more likely than not, doesn't cause either to get into subspace/domspace
<dalian> but if you communicate enough online...i think things such as tone can be noticed
<pieceofheaven1> smiles
<SkyDom> Hi, all.
<MsMaTiia> maybe cyberplay is not enough for most of you but we do have to remember for some it is the begiining
<malechattel{MMT}> Question - Should cyberplay be discouraged in favour of conversation and idea exchange, it the point of cyber is to gauge a potential partner?
<canplay> i see cyber as being fun,, D/s is serious (mind you i have not tried cyber)
<MsMaTiia> You can teach positioning, ethics, mannerisms, many things
<Demoneira> well no Rishard.. it's a lot easier to be perfect and pleasing and "all that" when noone can see you
<`abi> and for some MsMaTiia it is also a middle and an end ... because it is different from what most of us do, does not make it less legitimate for those who never experience BDSM any other way
* Kilted_One thinks that cybering vs R/L could be related to adult books vs R/L
* DarkAngel^ realizes this is a cyber topic ,, being discussed mostly by R/L people ,,LOL
<dalian> online D/s can be just as serious...it all depends on the individuals taking part and the relationship they choose to develop
<Demoneira> lol DA
<S_W> When you aren't seeing them as both fun - perhaps you aren't looking hard enough
<Sweetone{LT}> it's an interactive book KO <g>
<MsMaTiia> many who started in cyber, tried RL and now find cyber mundane ... however....
<DarkAngel^> but let us not look down on others kinks
<zee_LQ> just as D/s can be fun too!!! not all serious
<Rishard> why discourage it? If its wot both parties want/need/desire .. why not? Flip side, there are not that online who are *interested* in more than just cyber titilation
<malechattel{MMT}> True KO, but cyber involves interaction and potential power exchange, which other media does not, except for phone.
* dalian agrees with zee
<MarlinDom> you mean that cyber could be better in the mind than in real time?
<Masterguny> absolutely but if you lie if you don't do as told then no one gains it is an empty experiance but if truthful you can learn lots and put some away for real time...
<DarkAngel^> certainly if that is all you are ready for MarlinDom
<zee_LQ> agrees with Marlin Sir
<malechattel{MMT}> Agreed Rishard, if cyberplay is what is desired and that is understood by the parties.
<MsMaTiia> however ... if you have met the master and you have played in RL you could enjoy cyberplay with Him as you remember his voice, his touch, etc.
<Opal`> the intensity of my online experiences has yet to be replicated in r/l and i doubt i will ever permit myself to be that open in r/l... cyber allowed me the op
<Opal`> e
<His`lil`kitten> depends on the individual...
<dalian> isn't the essence of power exchange one of the mind to begin with?
<LrdThomas> i think cybersceneing should be discouraged among the teenage set, regardless of age. <g>
<concubinary> Whn I first got into bdsm I met a few dominants online and they were in real life simply not dominant, not really. Some were into S/m but not many were willing to be true dominants in the D/s context.
<canplay> what are the pit falls? that is the question
<Masterguny> yes
<Demoneira> when I want to explore something I usually write a stroy, pass it on to someone I know has the experience and he can tell me if what I'm picturing is plausible or if it's all wrong
<jen^^> i would worry someone would hide behind cyber instead of taking the leap to r/l, easier for them, less risk
<zee_LQ> just as any expectation that has been thought about and talked about.. the r/l could be more than expected or less
<Opal`> cyber allowed me the opportunity to experience something i otherwise would not have
<MarlinDom> <~~much better with the writen word...a clumsey oaf in reality
<MarlinDom> hehe
<jen^^> but have you really "experienced it" Opal
<Opal`> no jen... not really
<canplay> wow i guess i should try cyber,, sounds like more good then evil according to this crowd
<zee_LQ> LrdThomas Sir.. this girls teen just can't get the imagination going enough for on line chat other than hi! what school to yougo to...lol
<`abi> think of cyber as interactive story writing Demoneira
<Opal`> not the emotional depth
<Rishard> umph .. unfortunately, I have to agree with you, concubninary .. that's the charm of online for a lot of people .. let's them play out a fantasy, without having to go to the trouble of actually *being* wot they assert they are
<Demoneira> canplay, knowing you you'd start laughing mid-scene and not be able to type
<LrdThomas> same as some middle aged teens i've met zee. lol
<canplay> your right Dem lol
<His`lil`kitten> some people may be afraid/too shy to act out their fanatasies anywhere but online, though. For that kind of thing, o/l is a powerful engine.. the perfect outlet
* zee_LQ laughs
<MarlinDom> not everyone lies online
<His`lil`kitten> gmta Richard
<Sweetone{LT}> it's the fantasy without having to live with the consequences of reality
<concubinary> I see irc scenes as creative writing and the quality of the writing does not translate into the depth of dominance or submission. As well, it's not erotic for me to sit and type a scene
<Opal`> i did submit emotionally to my online Dom
<MarlinDom> and sadly lies are not confined to the electronic medium
<Demoneira> I do interactive writing actually... but it usually leads up to a few conflicts.. and the thing is.. it's easier for me to react as a character than as my inexperienced self
<Masterguny> if they do and a realationship develops and you meet the house of cards falls flat if lied to..that came out long ago..still happens but not as much
<dalian> to be honest, a lesson born out of experience with me...i have felt more Dominated by only one online as opposed to one i was collared to...and i question...was the r/l Master unable to Dominate effectively...or was the online Master more effective in Dominating through words alone
<canplay> so those that like to cyber,, are there no pit falls? why is everyone saying how great it is?
<`abi> that's sort of the point of the exercise Demoneira
* DarkAngel^ knows cyber isnt for him ,, but thinks it is a good/healthy/SAFE way for many to get their first taste
<Rishard> *harumph* .. more like the bumping into it, when I was younger and innocent, lil`kitten }}8^)
<DarkAngel^> to each their own
<yu4ia> I agree Dark Angel
<Demoneira> actually dalian... when you're reading the words you can put them in the exact right tone.. read them in the exact right context.. but it may not be "him" it's your creation of him
<zee_LQ> dalian.. perhaps it was the words and how they affected you? that was the winning experience.
<MarlinDom> Dalian your mind and imagination are more powerful than reality can be hoped for
* canplay thinks discussion has gone from pit falls of cyber,, to who does and who doesn't
* zee_LQ agrees with Demoneira
<MarlinDom> <~~a cyber monk
<malechattel{MMT}> This does seem to be boiling down to a difference of opinion/utility - but how about the safety or getting in too deep, mentally and physically?
* `abi raises her hand "my name is abi and I have cybered", then winks at canplay
<Sweetone{LT}> is it DA? physically safe maybe...except for the carpel tunnel syndrome it causes <g>
<dalian> i don't think so....i just happened to have a deeper communication link to someone...and that developed over a very long time
<MarlinDom> <~~got bored and tired of typin "whack"
<canplay> thanks male chattel
<Rishard> hrrrm .. dalian, it might have been a matter of *experience* .. which leads to self-assurance in *being* dominant .. and also to be able to *handle* situations, in rl, in real-time, so to speak, rather than being caught flat-footed
* LrdThomas will state again for the record.... since D/s is so much about defining and accepting responsibility form a master's point of view, and cybering assumes no responsibilities, i have no compunction calling cybering what it is... a sex game and free way to fantasize. Somegrow beyond that, most don't, and hey, thats the way it is.
* DarkAngel^ gropes canplay ,, forcing her to her knees ,, what were we talkin about ?
<concubinary> The pitfall of cyber is that it doesn't give a realistic taste of what real life S/m *or* D/s is like. In itself it's okay but lots of people assume rl and cyber are the same and the experience they have in cyber space really counts.
<Demoneira> the "perfect" Dom online, may not be the perfect Dom offline
* autumn`breeze{JFC} refuses to give a dilldo a blow job!
<His`lil`kitten> well, back on topic, if you weigh the risks of cyber 'anything' to r/l, it's marginal.. it's safe fun... if it's your thing...
<Demoneira> agreed kitten
<S_W> it can lead to preconceived notions which neither party can meet; but nilla o/l relationships can do that too - without the D/s. Which shows you that sex - of whatever kind - is a thing best practiced with somebody else in the flesh.
<MarlinDom> <~~not perfect here or in the flesh...deal with it
* Demoneira agrees whole-heartedly with that S_W
<dalian> but some of us have full intention to experience D/s in r/l...even if we also have taken part in an online relationship of sorts...there is no illusion for those who are simply on a path of learning
<MsMaTiia> and the Dom on line has no wife and kids and loves you intensley, is so wise to your needs/wants ..... and then he won't give you a phone number .... he won't let you visit then finally tells you that his wife is ill and he can't leave her.
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> except to SirDilldo
<MarlinDom> lol tiia
<His`lil`kitten> you *can* walk away at any time, an accident is *not* going to leave you horridly scarred or in need of stitches.. 0=but in exchange, you don't experience the positive intensity either...
<Demoneira> no doubt! *grins at Tiia*
* zee_LQ uses on line now as a means to stay in contact with her Master. He may leave tasks for her to do.. but it is a communication toy now
<Kilted_One> so is there anything that cyber is good for that is a prelude to R/l?? or whatever
<MarlinDom> the wounds that can not be seen can be deeper kitten
* LrdThomas stays online to bug cybersceners. <eg>
<jen^^> talking and communicating
* Sweetone{LT} grins
<MarlinDom> lol Thomas
<Demoneira> well wait a minute.. what if you have a bad cyber experience? or one with a player? couldn;t that scare you away from r/l?
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> rite jen
<His`lil`kitten> oh, but those can be equal in r/l and o/l, I'm not missing that point, I know o/l attachment is a reality, certainly
<Rishard> weeeeelll .. all I can add to the fire is that, I, in My personal and work persona tend to be very much in control .. leader of others, in work, assertive in how I handle Myself .. I find that whenever I have to resort to threats or mindgames, per se, to dominate .. I've already lost control .. *control* is about power exhange .. which, again, is based on respect and trust .. those things can grow, here, admittedly more cautiously ..
<MarlinDom> yes Demoneira it can leave you disallusioned and bitter
<concubinary> I think that cyber as a prelude to real life can be dangerous in that it gives a false sense of real life. Some people get caught up in the cyber bull and aren't prepared for rl at all
<Rishard> *because* one does *not* have the physical ques you have in rl
<yu4ia> Its a good way to weed out unwanted anyway Demoneira
<dalian> when i speak of online i do not mean cyberscening...only the exchange between two people
* Demoneira nods at concubinary
<MsMaTiia> The topic, however is "cyberplay"
<jen^^> or get disappointed and never make the move to r/l
<Demoneira> that's kinda what i was saying before.. I would feel like i was misleading the cyber-mate
* His`lil`kitten meant o/l play, with o/l...
<dalian> it would be impossible for me to feel a caning or a flogging online
<Sweetone{LT}> cyber does not prepare you for the actual feel of r/l...the whip can actually 'hurt'!!!
* dalian agrees with Sweetone
<Rishard> flip side, for good point to cyberscening: letting people know that there are *others* who share their interests in BDSM / D/s / name-your-bent-here
<DarkAngel^> well P/people ,, with the idea of Safe Sane and CONCENTUAL ,, I think cyber has it's place ,, especially for those curious ,, but to scared to go R/L YET ,,,
<MarlinDom> hmmmm if I were to say..."sub x I will tie you to a post" would that not evoke a response?
<LrdThomas> it does not hurt sweetone... it's just you not focusing!!! lol
<Demoneira> well that and limits are oh so easy to ignore in online play
<Sweetone{LT}> but do you need to cyberscene to learn that Rishard??
<His`lil`kitten> no, but it can be wonderful to have someone explain to you how it feels, say, if you've never felt that before... word by word in detail, it can be rather erotic, i'd imagine...
<canplay> will agree to that Dark Angel
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> so what kind of scene could be done o/l
<Demoneira> how tight Marlin? with what? how hitgh's the post and where am I tied? there are too many gaps in cyberscenes
<zee_LQ> the problem DarkAngel^ Sir..is on line experiences for the first time. you really don't know what is safe!!
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> touch yourself ?? ;pinch youself
<yu4ia> for me "cyberplay" would not include putting on clamps but the pleasure element owuld still be there and would heighten my 1st experience in leeting me know what to anticipate with a certain individual
<canplay> i think i could help a cyber sub know what it feels like , more then a Dom (imho)
<DarkAngel^> R/L can hurt ,, I think it is a good thing for a sub to look at ,, see what a Dom would expect ,, and go in with eyes wide open
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> what ?
<Opal`> the gaps are filled by your imagination
<Rishard> hrrrm .. to tell the truth, I am blind re "cyberscening," per se .. I don't do the whips and flogger routine, *here* .. *chuckle* .. I reserve *that* for rl .. however .. the induction of subspace, of *submission* .. *that* does work, here
<MarlinDom> you visualized a "post" though Demonia and thats my point
<His`lil`kitten> anything, autumn, if descriptive enough... just "I tie you to (whatever)" is very blunt, not wonderfully effective, but in cyber, you can work magic with words... make it sooo much more intense.
<jen^^> hearing a Dom say He likes to use a cane or whip is very different and can be romantic on-line, to some the actual feel can be very different
<MarlinDom> if I were more discriptive it would be better no doubt
<MarlinDom> hehe
* LrdThomas would rather spend a weekend explaining face to face what the girl will face in submission than type for 45 minutes and then find out she pinged out, and the only pain is my carpal tunnel syndrome. <g>
<yu4ia> lol
<MsMaTiia> lol
<^brat{SteelBlue}> i found cyberplay to be a lesson in cause and effect... "If I respond this way...THIS might happen"..."If I respond that way, THAT might happen"... It gave me a rudimentary understanding of how things could possibly unfold in a similar r/l situation. Not feeling pain wasn't the issue...understanding how it might work was.
<MarlinDom> lol good point Thomas
* Demoneira laughs
<jen^^> to dream and fantasize on-line and then walk into a public scene could be very dangerous or disheartening if truly not prepared
<Sweetone{LT}> but why wouldn't mentoring do that brat?
<His`lil`kitten> it's erotic artistry through language... and yes, it can elicit a deep response
<concubinary> His lil kitten - it can be erotic but the thing is that I've never REALLY known if the person describing it had actually felt it or whether they had just read about it and were regurgitating the info
<His`lil`kitten> very true, jen...
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> na r/l for me
<^brat{SteelBlue}> because i was young, intensely shy, with NO r/l outside contact to the scene...otherwise, i'm sure it would have.
<Opal`> i agree kitten.. it can elicit a deep response
<celtic`cross> for some cyberplay is the only contact they have with others in the D/s world, and the only way to begin to explore that side which they never knew about
<canplay> knows that Slave Master liked to cyber with His subs ,,, look what happened
<DarkAngel^> Sweetone{LT} ,,,, perfect example ,,,,, most find cyber before they find others in the lifestyle ,,,,, I did
<His`lil`kitten> well, do you need to know that? Some might, some might just be content to enjoy the fantasy :)
* Demoneira nods at jen and wonders how a newbie is to know based on cyber what is "expected" when every Dom is different?
<dalian> again...not all subs have the opportunity to do just as LrdThomas describes
<MarlinDom> I think its important to get to know your partner in any situation
<celtic`cross> from there they can move into r/l with at least the fundamental knowledge of what to expect and how to act
<MsMaTiia> But every Dom "is" different and that you will learn in cyber and in RL
* Rishard looks to the time .. and on that note, time for Me to be off .. pleasant evening, all, and I look forward to meeting you at the munch
* DarkAngel^ isnt into cyber ,,, I just see it as perhapos of benefit to others ,,, so therefore ,,, gives it a thumbs up ,, and agrees it is a valid part of our larger comunity
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> but you can learn that from an experienced Dom in r/l
<concubinary> His little kitten - I need to know that
<yu4ia> online has definitatly increased the lifestyle and cyberplay is a good way to initiate r/l
<celtic`cross> if you are close enough to one, or he/you have money
<Demoneira> I personally don't see myself any further behind for not encouraging cyber-scening in my cyber-relationship.. I still have learn through discussion about how he "works"
* His`lil`kitten nods... well, that's where getting to know your cyber partner, and trusting that they are legit comes in, that's background. concubinary
<celtic`cross> if not well, its a case of make due until you can find someone close to you, or do as i did and move lol
<His`lil`kitten> it's a matter of preference, I'm sure
* Demoneira nods to lil kitten and adds that she was more encouraged by the fact that he;s okay with her not cybering, and is still around
<concubinary> I just found the cyber play not erotic - just chatting and getting to know someone is much more erotic than cyber-play which I perceive to be *pretending* to play
<canplay> i don't want to fall in love with a Dom far away,, i can't move,, it is only asking for heart ache
* DarkAngel^ doesnt think cyber is a bad word ,, just as I learned kink , slut, whore, perv, erotic, sex, enjoyment, and others arent bad words
<LrdThomas> oh sweetone baby... you lil imp... put your humongus DDD tits back in the bra... I'm not whipping them yey baby!
<LrdThomas> oops wrong window. <g>
<canplay> i agree concubinary
<S_W> cyber is not without emotional value - but next to r/l - it is ordering from the kiddie side of the menu, pure and simple. To equate the two misses the mark and by more than just a little, IMO.
<MsMaTiia> Another point ... as cyberplay seems safe ... the Dom does not need to do the negotiation neccessary in Rt play ... so when cyber Dom comes to RT ... this skill now needs to learned.
<`abi> can you whisper those words one more time for me DA?
<Sweetone{LT}> woohoo!!! i like this cyber now!!!!
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> each to their own as long as they are safe
* concubinary thinks that while Swwtone undoubtably has nice boobies, LrdThomas mistook her for someone else!
<Sweetone{LT}> lol concubinary
<Masterguny> hi ya ddesire
<S_W> I would never do anything in cyber I would not do in r/l - THAT is its value to me. IT is scen scripting and negotiation.
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> and the key word here is SAFE
<DarkAngel^> must have been a damn tight bra Sweetone{LT}
<ddesire> good evening E/everyone
<Sweetone{LT}> but i can be that way on cyber <g>
<^brat{SteelBlue}> DDD. wow :)
<His`lil`kitten> hm, I think some negotiation is necessary, if the point is for both to enjoy the fantasy, then to just pull out this major squick really ruins things...
<ddesire> good evening Masterguny
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> hi ddesire
<Demoneira> I know of one couple.. they were together 2 years online.. cyber and all and then when they finally met r.l it fell apart.. he wasn't what she had been expecting
<concubinary> I can say that Sweetone being in the same boat as it were
<ddesire> <huggles bratsky>
<LrdThomas> this is cyber conc.... they are DDD in fact, they just got another D on em. lol
* Opal` is glad she is small enough to order from the kiddie side of the menu
<ddesire> hi autumn <huggles>
<MarlinDom> hello ddesire
<Demoneira> and vice versa I'm sure
<concubinary> whoohoo LrdThomas
<ddesire> good evening MarlinDom
<jen^^> *lol* at Sweetone{LT}, that is the thing with cyber, can be anyone on the other end, just cause they send a picture doesn't mean it is of them
* DarkAngel^ will say the same S_W ,,, I am quite turned OFF by someone who lies ,, weather it cyber or personal ad ,, or chatting
<`abi> that's a good point Demoneira ... cyber *is* different, and it doesn't always ...even usually...translate well into r/l
<Sweetone{LT}> very true jen
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> wb Bernie Sir
<MarlinDom> good evening Bernie
<ddesire> w/b Bernie <snuggle huggles>
* BernieRoehl smiles at everyone
<Opal`> maybe it doens't have to translate... it is another life experience
<`abi> exactly Opal
* LrdThomas beats sweetones hiney, for failing to warn me to duck as she swunbg around to talk to jen, damm near decapitating me with them doozies! <g>
<MarlinDom> lol
<DarkAngel^> lol
<Demoneira> but that doesn't mean you may not want it to Opal`
<DarkAngel^> what a way to go
<Masterguny> hi ya BernieRoehl
<MarlinDom> well have we resolved anything re: cyberplay?
<canplay> i would fail as an online sub ,, my words are not desriptive enough
<MsMaTiia> and are we not A/all picturing Lord Thomas and the doozies? Of course we are!
* DarkAngel^ sees the time ,, and bursts forth with his held in Hi ya ,, Hellos ,, and cyber hugs and gropes ,, where appropriate
<jen^^> *lol* @ LT
* celtic`cross thinks some like it, some dont lol
<Opal`> there are lots of things we want in life... some we can have and some we can't.... sometimes there is value in just wanting
<BernieRoehl> Hi, everyone!!!!
<His`lil`kitten> it's a risk I think you take, you trust that your partner is who they say they are, or you don't, there's no guarantee in real life either... I'm sure there are many men and women out there with the 'partner of their dreams, who just happens to work a lot in a far a way city -where his/her wife/husband and kids, that the other has NO hint to live
<MarlinDom> I can understand you can
* BernieRoehl is glad to get that "Hi" off His chest :-)
<jen^^> which doozies or was that floozies Sir
* BernieRoehl returns ddesire's snuggles :-)
<MarlinDom> hi hi
<MarlinDom> hehe
* ddesire giggles
* ^brat{SteelBlue} eyes DA wondering if she got a hi, or a hello, or a hug, or a grope, or what!? LOL
<Kilted_One> or ooozies??
<^brat{SteelBlue}> hi there ddesire
<DarkAngel^> hey BernieRoehl ,,, pls go ahead and sell tickets ,, will get the physical ones to ya asap
* Kilted_One has time up
<BernieRoehl> Sounds good, DA!
<canplay> thanks MsMaTiia : )
* ^brat{SteelBlue} plants a few pretend, but very well intended smooches on BernieRoehl and Kilted_One
* MsMaTiia I noticed some are starting to leave, allow me to thank you A/all for participating with your views and comments.
<His`lil`kitten> thought that was ticketmaster?
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> never seen a Dom change His nick so much as DA
<TicketMonster> ty MsMaTiia /.... cyber gropes and kudos
<dalian> great discussion MsMaTiia
<MarlinDom> the pleasure was mine Tiia
* canplay thought it said Tickle Master
* celtic`cross waves at the TicketMonster, wondering if he got her email asking about a ticket for herself
<malechattel{MMT}> Thank You MsMaTiia, enjoy the wine.
* Kilted_One will clean up the log and email it later tonight Bernie
* BernieRoehl smiles at brat, and gives her a pretend smooch
<^brat{SteelBlue}> teehee, Bernie
<Kilted_One> ty Tiia for your efforts
<BernieRoehl> Thank you for moderating, Tiia!!
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, KO!