September 19, 2004 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Subspace -- the Final Frontier?". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<BernieRoehl> Hey there, CP!
<BernieRoehl> Hi, Sweet1`
<BernieRoehl> So... the topic is subspace. Anyone have any initial thoughts or observations?
<krista-F> i want to live there
<jadeofdragonspirit> lol
* BernieRoehl smiles
<kierana{DRFL}> lol...
<bondagebabe> I would like to go there...
* kierana{DRFL} sees it as a necessity of life
<BernieRoehl> So, quick virtual "show of hands"... who's experienced it?
<krista-F> me...
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ps}> my girls have
<catsbrat{CM}> i have
<lil_emigirl> 6me
* Sweet1` puts hand up
<jadeofdragonspirit> <--- was non-responsive last weekend, does that count in a scene? *snicker*
* kierana{DRFL} raises my hand
<Rufrider`> :))))
<victoria_angel> me too (raises hand also)
<Rufrider`> I can get them there, does that count?:)
* BernieRoehl smiles @ Rufrider`
* ethereal is waiting on the next bus to subspace
<lil_emigirl> is it true everyone experiences something dif'rent in subspace?
<kierana{DRFL}> i found tho...that when i really tried to get to subspace it just wasn't happening...when i relax and just let go, i get there quickly
<`abi> not only that lil_emigirl, but I'd say that everyone experiences different kinds of subspace
<lil_emigirl> abi> thankyou..`ss`
<BernieRoehl> So the experience of subspace is somewhat subjective, then?
<BernieRoehl> Can anyone suggest a good "working definition" of what subspace is?
<`abi> an altered state of perception
<victoria_angel> euphoric
<kierana{DRFL}> floating, heightened awareness
<lil_emigirl> mind blowing...~grinz~
<krista-F> for me it is total and complete relaxation
<victoria_angel> sense awareness
<Sweet1`> i find it's a heightened or intensified focus on one thing and a decrease in awareness of anything outside of that focus
<jadeofdragonspirit> when the dominant get's frustrated that you are not responding anymore.. *chuckles*
<BernieRoehl> That last definition (from Sweet1`) is interesting, since it's similar to what a lot of Doms experience while playing -- a very strong focus on their submissive, and a "falling away" of everything else
<kierana{DRFL}> i find that i float...i know what's going on around me, but it's like i'm in this peaceful, quiet bubble
<BernieRoehl> ... though clearly, it's a very different experience
<krista-F> i have never understood what the Dominant gets from it
<Sweet1`> exactly, maybe more noted in public play, where the public no longer exists the further you get into the scene
<krista-F> a mystery to me
<BernieRoehl> Might be a good topic for another discussion, krista-F -- I'll make a note for the topic list
<victoria_angel> clearly i think dominants want the sub-space subs to be woken and aware of their stikes
<krista-F> thank you Bernie
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ps}> no not all victoria_angel
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ps}> I for one enjoy it when my girls go to sub-space
<victoria_angel> i think sub-space allows submissives to experience different tollerances
<BernieRoehl> I actually enjoy moving a submissive into an altered state
<`abi> I don't think that subspace is just one state of awareness victoria_angel ... I can be very alert and still be experiencing a kind of sub-space
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ps}> I agree BernieRoehl
<victoria_angel> i'm not saying they aren't awake perse, i'm saying that they are in a heightened state of feeling
<kierana{DRFL}> i've never hit sub space in a public scene, i guess i'm just too aware of the ppl around me
<BernieRoehl> So do most submissives who have experienced subspace see it as a "goal" or just a part of the overall experience?
<Sweet1`> depends on the scene and the dom
<victoria_angel> agrees with sweet
<kierana{DRFL}> my personal opinion is that sub space is a nice place to visit...but not the reason why i'm getting my asscot whooped
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ps}> my girls (who are here with me) look at subspace has a "perk"
<Rufrider`> a recreational drug?
<kierana{DRFL}> lol
<`abi> I'd say they spend alot of time being perky Corporal_Punishment{pb_ps}
<bondagebabe> i would think if it was a "goal", you would end up being disappointed if it didn't happen....
<kierana{DRFL}> that's it bondage
<bridgeit`> does it happen every time?
<jadeofdragonspirit> it is more so a informative step in the right direction..
<kierana{DRFL}> no, bridgeit...or at least not always and not always the same intensity
<`abi> depends on what 'it' is bridgeit` .... I experience subspace in different ways at different times and in different places
<lil_emigirl> ~nods softly~
<`abi> any time I experience something which makes a submissive response kick-in .. I call it subspace
<lil_emigirl> sometimes im deeper in subspace then other times.
<kierana{DRFL}> *nods*
<victoria_angel> right abi, i met this dominant who rubbed my neck then scratched my back with his nails - it was very easy to drop into s-s from that, when he kept it up (devilishly knowlingly)
* `abi nods to victoria_angel ... and that may be very different from what you experience in a scene
<victoria_angel> absolutely
<BernieRoehl> So what are some other common "triggers"?
<victoria_angel> it is a responsiveness, lol - hair Bernie
<krista-F> words
<`abi> leather
<krista-F> totally words for me
<krista-F> those whispers
<`abi> the sun coming up
<krista-F> lol
<kierana{DRFL}> humming
<victoria_angel> dark communicative eyes
<bridgeit`> how do you know you are in ss
<cenobite> Being pet, that does it every time..
<lil_emigirl> i didnt know i was the first
<`abi> I think if you are experiencing feelings of submission, then you are in subspace bridgeit` ... but people sometimes don't recognize it because they've been led to believe that it's some kind of magical, mystical state
<lil_emigirl> i've scared my partner a few times.
<bridgeit`> people have used words like floating to describe it
<Sweet1`> it can go to that mystical state, to a place where you cannot speak or move except in your mind
<krista-F> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<krista-F> think im going there now.....:)
* BernieRoehl smiles
<BernieRoehl> One question that has come up a number of times in relation to subspace is the issue of consent
<BernieRoehl> In particular, once someone is in an altered state, are they truly able to give or withdraw their consent?
<victoria_angel> huh, consent to go into sub-space
<Sweet1`> that is where the knowledge of one's partner is key...
<victoria_angel> ah
<kierana{DRFL}> hmmmmm
<lil_emigirl> im not able to consent when in that state.. it's up to your partner to look after your wellbeing.
<Sweet1`> to know how they react and to what degree they can be taken
<Sweet1`> lol, if i can't speak, it's all good
<lil_emigirl> 6*Lol*
<kierana{DRFL}> but can you truly hit subspace with a partner you don't trust to take care of your best interests after hitting ss
<Sweet1`> can you hit subspace if you don't trust your partner?
<kierana{DRFL}> i know i can't do that
<lil_emigirl> i wouldnt be able to
<Rufrider`> best to play with trustworthy tops kierana{DRFL}
<kierana{DRFL}> that's what i mean, Rufrider...if you can't consent to things after hitting subspace, you should be able to trust your top do take care of you
<Rufrider`> for sure
<`abi> I think it's a little more than that ... if you truly beleive that you can't keep yourself safe ... then you need to know that you're consenting to the possibility that you will in fact be harmed... I don't believe that you can abdicate that responsibility
<`abi> to say after the fact ... well, he *knew* that I wouldn't be able to safeword when I'm spaced, does not alleviate a bottome of responsibility when something goes wrong
<Sweet1`> if you believe you may be harmed, how does your mind allow you to relax enough to get into subspace deep enough to be harmed?
<twiceshy> i was about to ask that
<`abi> I think that you have to be aware that there is *always* some potential for harm ... and either you accept that you can call it .. or you accept responsibility for the fact that you can't
* kierana{DRFL} slips away to lalaland
<twiceshy> there is always that potential if you hit subspace or not there is Always a risk you might get hurt as acidents happen be it BDSM play or walking down the street
<Rufrider`> I dont think that type of senario happens all that ofter when tow people know each other well `abi
<Rufrider`> if your strangers its more likly to happen I think
<twiceshy> i have to agree Rufrider`
<`abi> I think that knowing each other well lessens the risk Rufrider`...but it doesn't eliminate it
<Rufrider`> theres always a risk:)
<Rufrider`> play isent perfect, if one expect that your in for trouble
<`abi> and sometimes the stakes are higher with someone you know well, because you are likely to be pushing tougher limits
* twiceshy we as peaple are not perfect so i dont exspect perfection from anything
<Sweet1`> but the familiarity and trust allow you to go further as well
<Rufrider`> I d say Sweet1`
<BernieRoehl> Another question that has come up in the past has to do with the actual process of entering it
<Nik> has the question been raised of...if anyone has entered ss the first time playing with someone completely new?
<Rufrider`> some times Nik
<BernieRoehl> (tying the two questions together...)
<cenobite> I have..first time I ever really played with someone, and someone I had just met.
<krista-F> yes....i have as well
<BernieRoehl> Does playing with someone new add an element of adrenaline/anticipation that makes it easier to enter subspace?
<Nik> exactly
<_dove{S}> yes i believe it does Bernie
<victoria_angel> probably Bernie
<victoria_angel> excitement
<twiceshy> i think it does
<cenobite> I can't really answer that as it was the first time I had experienced subspace...I have less comparison then everyone else. *smiles*
<Sweet1`> depends on what part/depth of subspace Bernie...i experience different things at times, from the 'chemistry warm and fuzzy feeling of falling in love' type to completely zoning out
<BernieRoehl> So if someone is trying to achieve subspace, and is struggling with it, what are some approaches they might try?
<victoria_angel> breathing, focus
<lil_emigirl> may i ask.. if any have had to be pulled out of subspace..quickly..due to breathing problems.?
<jadeofdragonspirit> i have
<jadeofdragonspirit> i would hold my breath or forget to breath, totaly unaware until i saw the pink elephants
<Sweet1`> relax, don't push yourself to get to a subspace you think you have to be in
<lil_emigirl> jadeofdragonspirit.> yes..
<Sweet1`> have the dom regularly tell you to breath
<lil_emigirl> sometimes that doesnt work .. for you are too deep.....
<BernieRoehl> Beyond breathing, any suggestions?
<Rufrider`> I forget to breath some times
<victoria_angel> i'm taking classes for TT and Riki, so that can be used to relax
<victoria_angel> naturally a dominant can massage away fears and tension
<jadeofdragonspirit> well since then i have focused on breathing techniques which come hand in hand to achieving that subspace orbit
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<BernieRoehl> So, any other thoughts?
<jadeofdragonspirit> i've been suggested to investigate my spirituality some more, to find inner peace to achieve that sub space...
<jadeofdragonspirit> but everytime someone puts on the music and candles, i get 2 minutes of relaxation in, and i wake up the next morning.
<Sweet1`> find out why it is a goal and why it is so important to achieve something you've heard about, and take the pressure off yourself to go there
<jadeofdragonspirit> it isn't the finding out, it's the how to get there without knowing the process, and the final reasoning
<jadeofdragonspirit> i will achieve this as well i am certain
* BernieRoehl nods
<BernieRoehl> Well, some good thoughts on the subject of subspace...
<BernieRoehl> Thanks for your participation, everyone!
<twiceshy> thank you BernieRoehl Sir
<twiceshy> :O)
<Rufrider`> :) BernieRoehl
<victoria_angel> waves night to E/everyone
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informally. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<twiceshy> night victoria_angel