September 15, 2002 EhBC Online Discussion

<BernieRoehl> I'm in -- at last!
<becky> hi BernieRoehl
<BernieRoehl> Getting really bad ping times, but I'm lucky to get in at all!
<BernieRoehl> Well, it could be a very sluggish discussion tonight -- ping times are upwards of 16 seconds
<BernieRoehl> I've set an automatic message that reads as follows:
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion is "Bringing them Across -- Introducing New People to the Scene". The moderator is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<Kilted_One> I think it maybe time to move this to the Bondage server like so many others that have done the same for the same reasons
<LORD`WOLF> i agrree
<BernieRoehl> Okay, I'm getting ping times upwards of a minute
* BernieRoehl agrees with KO
* laralynn^ is already there
<`vixie> sounds good KO
<BernieRoehl> Okay, I'm convinced KO. Let's me there. Can you set the channel topic, to redirect people?
<pandora``> no, i agree that not all do that, but it seems to be more prevalent than i would like
<kierana> right there
<firestar{LO}> this one has never used bondage!!!!!
<firestar{LO}> oops
<firestar{LO}> that is
<BernieRoehl> Just do a /server
<BernieRoehl> Then /join #bdsm-kw
<Kilted_One> I can do that Bernie
<yummy> type /server
<yummy> and that will get you there
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, KO
<BernieRoehl> On my way there now....
<firestar{LO}> thank you
<BernieRoehl> Wow -- much better!
<BernieRoehl> Let's give it a minute for the rest to arrive
* kierana looks at the stop watch
<Kilted_One> I think we have gotten just about everyone now Bernie
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, KO!
<BernieRoehl> Okay, let's try this again...
<BernieRoehl> The topic is "Bringing them Across -- Introducing New People to the Scene"
<BernieRoehl> Any opening thoughts?
* #BDSM-KW is being logged
<kierana> are we talking about bringing new ppl from online into the r/l lifestyle or from r/l to munches and such?
<laralynn> define new new someone who is just learning about being Dominant or submissive or is new someone like myself who has been involved privately in BDSM and just starting to go out in public
<BernieRoehl> I think the intent of the topic is bringing people into the lifestyle generally
<kierana> ahhh ok...
* `vixie chuckles and looks over to the couch
* BernieRoehl smiles at vixie
<BernieRoehl> So has anyone here done that -- brought someone into the lifestyle who had no previous experience?
<kierana> yes, Bernie i have...
<BernieRoehl> And how did you approach it, kierana?
<LORD`WOLF> i think we need to be careful and not rush the new people but be open to offer help and suggestions
<pandora``> i have sort of done that, had a dinner party with me and two Doms and a vanilla girlfriend
<BernieRoehl> And how did it go, pandora``? (did the two of you end up as dessert?) :-)
<pandora``> lol, well play did break out
<pandora``> and she really enjoyed it!
<kierana> well, i am pretty open about myself and my a conversation with someone i worked with she expressed an interest in what i was know her as jewel{F}, so, i guess that was a successful coming out
<LORD`WOLF> i think so
<`vixie> i sort of hinted about it, then waited to see the reaction, i was pleasently surprised to find out it wasn't one sided kinky
<`abi> she kinda caught onto to the idea huh kierana?
* `vixie grins happily
<BernieRoehl> Excellent, pandora
<kierana> lol abi...uh huh
* BernieRoehl smiles
<pandora``> i don't know if she is interested in it to the extent that i am, but she did find it a huge turn on, and i think in time she will want to experiment more
<BernieRoehl> So what do people feel is generally the best way to introduce someone to it?
<`vixie> definately slow and careful
<`vixie> don't want to scare them away
<kierana> but, as i said...i am pretty open with most ppl about my inclinations, so when someone shows an interest i will answer questions and such...and have left it with them whether they wish to learn amazed how kink friendly my work place is...*chuckle*
<pandora``> i find that usually it is because i tell my friends what i am into, and if they are interested then i can do something about it, but if not, then i leave it alone
<LORD`WOLF> i knew a stubbon as i am if i had been push i might not became involed in the life stle
<`vixie> <-- was very scared to say 'hi i'm kinky' but i had incentive....he kept hinted that duct tape holds things well
* kierana agrees with LW Sir
<laralynn> did you think you'd hurt your partner LORD`WOLF?
* laralynn has had play partners that were reluctant at first because they were afraid of hurting me
* Kilted_One thinks that the best way to intro someone is "gently" and on their time
<BernieRoehl> How did you get them past that, laralynn?
* `vixie agrees KO
<jen{SE}> i don't believe showing someone the lifestyle who is truly not ready for it or understands it is a good thing
<LORD`WOLF> yes i would have because i would not know how to vent rather then just rough sex
<laralynn> ALOT of talking to convince them I craved it and without it sex was just not something I was interested in
* BernieRoehl agrees with jen, but wonders who one can tell for sure that someone is ready
<laralynn> vanilla sex for me is a waste of energy I never ever orgasm that way
<shadoe{S}> maintaining a moderate pace for those who "claim" they are ready might be a good start
<kierana> i think that the person you are open with will let you know they are ready by the type of questions and depth of interest they show...
<BernieRoehl> Speaking for myself, I'm very open about my involvement with BDSM. If someone knows me even slightly, they know that I'm into it -- and can therefore talk to me about it if they're curious
<Achilles{tr}> ..and how does one understand if one has not been introduced?
<jen{SE}> have they done their research, do they understand what they will see
<pandora``> i don't think it is up to "us" to tell when someone is ready, i think that they will come to that conclusion on their own
<rhiannon{KO}> i agree pandora...
<jen{SE}> i think when they are ready they find their own way
<pandora``> but the main thing is for us to be here for them, and to make them aware that they are not weird in their desires
<kierana> very right, pandora
<LORD`WOLF> wel i knew i was when i was not happly know i was not getting any thing out of a vanille relationship
<rhiannon{KO}> i told a male friend of mine once what i was into (and i didn't even get graphic) and he was totaly shocked, and couldn't relate to it at all, and told me that if he ever saw bruises on me, he would go after the person who did to say, i didn't tell him much after that.
<jen{SE}> agrees, but also, i do not enjoy going to fet nights where there are the curiosity seekers watching for the titilation
<shadoe{S}> laralynn.. in vanilla sex, they still do oral and et al, how can you not orgasm from that?
<LORD`WOLF> i stay away from people because i was afaid i hurt them
<kierana> there is one i am a friend with who has been asking deeper and deeper questions of me lately...i send her to books and have her come back with her reactions but, have not suggested her coming to a munch yet as she doesn't seem ready for that
<pandora``> i can see laralynn's point, for me vanilla sex is nothing, it is the control that i crave
<LORD`WOLF> the power of control intense in me
<laralynn> for me it's the control and the pain pandora
<shadoe{S}> but saying you don't orgasm during vanilla sex is like saying you don't get off when masturbating or using a vibe
<pandora``> but without control, what is the point of the pain
<LORD`WOLF> subpress for so long i advoid people
<jen{SE}> *lol* @ pandora, don't ask a masch.. that question
<jen{SE}> *grins*
<Sweet1`> lol
<pandora``> lol
<shadoe{S}> not allowed Sir
<shadoe{S}> i WISH!
<LORD`WOLF> but would not bring some one new wil out long chats with them first to fel out if that what they really want some just think bdsm is nothing but kinky sex
<rhiannon{KO}> lol@shadoe{S} cuz i know what she is talking about... [Justice:#BDSM-KW PING]
<shadoe{S}> but my point is.. orgasms are orgasms.. even vanilla people have them.. even i have them when the Big Guy and i have "regular" sex
<MistressKatherine> As for myself, i have everyone that i talk to in the Vanilla lifestyle about this, i have them read up about it on Castle Realms and Ehbc
<shadoe{S}> oops
<MistressKatherine> then i have them fillout a BDSM checklist
<shadoe{S}> lol
<shadoe{S}> okay.. so i don't know irc well
<rhiannon{KO}> LOL
<laralynn> the point is I don't have regular sex
<laralynn> I see it as a waste of time and energy because I get nothing from it
<LORD`WOLF> miss the old excite chat there
<MistressKatherine> this way they have a basic understanding to the lifestyle before i go any furthure with them
<jen{SE}> *smiles* and remembers the confusion when i first saw a checklist,, many newbies, don't know what half the terms are
<shadoe{S}> so laralynn.. you are saying in regular sex you don't get aroused
<MistressKatherine> I have a couple of friends that i have introduced into the lifestyle by this means
<MistressKatherine> and it has worked for me
<laralynn> no shadoe I don't
* pandora`` laughs, updated her checklist on today and got a real shock at the changes!
<LORD`WOLF> as do I MistressKatherine but some one has to dig deeper
<kierana> lol jen same first check list i had my dictionary out
<MistressKatherine> as for other's you might have to take a different approach
<Achilles{tr}> Kinda makes the checklist itself into an educational tool.. don'tit though?
<jen{SE}> Yes, it does, or scares the crap out of them
<LORD`WOLF> it certainly does
* kierana smiles and agrees with Achilles Sir...
<Achilles{tr}> if a checklist is going to scare them.. I doubt they are ready to face a play event.
<Achilles{tr}> Might be a good way to save them a worse shock.
<MistressKatherine> i like the interactive BDSM checklist used on Castle Realms
<jen{SE}> heckers Achilles{tr}, we don't get to see a 1/8 of what is on the checklists at play parties
<jen{SE}> unless it is a private party
<kierana> yes, but wouldn't you want a new person to be introduced into a munch setting before taking them to a play party?
<MistressKatherine> both the respective sub and the Dom/Domme gets a copy of thier respone's
* kierana nods...have used the Castle Realm checklist
<jen{SE}> many newbies start on-line, which can be a little deceptive when they do go to their first munch or party
<LORD`WOLF> i thought a newbe could not go to a play party unless they went to a couble of much first
<jen{SE}> depends on the party LORD`WOLF
<shadoe{S}> i went to a play party long before a munch
<Achilles{tr}> If a new person has already expressed an interest... how might they best be introduced?
<jen{SE}> me too
<Achilles{tr}> Seem to be rather getting hung up on carefully finding out whether they are interested to start with.
<MistressKatherine> As to all the things on the checklist, Not all Dom/Domme's are into all of those topic's
<kierana> Achilles Sir...i would think that would depend on that person's expressed desire...
<Sweet1`> munches and play parties sastify different aspects of the lifestyle, one social and the other more the physical, they are completely different...someone may very well be better at the play party than trying to be social with people they don't know
<jen{SE}> i personally like the personal conversation, introduce them to some others in a quiet setting
<`abi> it occurs to me that while I'm far too indecisive for the scales on most checklists, whether a newbie encounters all of them or not ... they are in fact a good introduction to the possibilities that the lifestyle offers
<`abi> and certainly a good foundation for discussion
<MistressKatherine> as with a munch
<MistressKatherine> as to Jen's responce
<kierana> brb
<`abi> I have on occasion left BDSM related material out on a table if I think that someone I know is interested
<BernieRoehl> Achilles raises an interesting question -- given that someone has said "Okay, I'm interested" -- then what? Inviting them to a party is one option, what are some of the others?
<MistressKatherine> back to the checklist and a dictionary....most of the terms used on it is Europeaniion
<lil^tigress> munch first.. have them read up .. talk to them about it.. what is it that they are looking for or want
<`abi> they pick up the book and either go "ooohhhh" or "oh my god" and depending on the tone of those expressions, I have a good idea of whether they want to know more
<Achilles{tr}> Lend them books which seem appropriate to their interests? "Screw the Roses" or any number of other fine books on the subject and later discussing the material with them?
<firestar{LO}> one way to introduce someone new into the scene would be to sit them down, have a long talk asking them what they think it is about, then let them know what it is really about.. and give informative web sites to browse, or point them in the direction of other ppl in the lifestyle -if you have the others permission-
<MistressKatherine> we should try to devolope a more Canadian style and update for are use's
<yummy> how do you do a Canadian style? how are we different than elsewhere (sorry if off topic)
<Achilles{tr}> "you like to be flogged, eh?"
<jen{SE}> *lol*
* laralynn laughs
<LORD`WOLF> oh come over for coffee
<Achilles{tr}> "I'm gonna bounce stale timbits off your nipples until you beg for mercy."
<yummy> oh i know ......lets meet at country style or timmies to meet and discuss
<MistressKatherine> as with the terms used on the checklist
<yummy> now that is the canadian approach
<fiestyone> lol
<MistressKatherine> not everyone is educated enough to understand it
<kierana> roflmao
<jen{SE}> *groannnnnnnns* @ the timmy's, i think if one more DOM would have asked me to meet at timmy's i would have screamed....
<laralynn> since we have more donut shops than any other country in the world I'd agree about the donut shop scenario LOL
<Achilles{tr}> Well... it's Canadian.
<yummy> well jen{SE}, that is my point exactly
<MistressKatherine> as in Bernie's question....invite them to a workshop maybe
* BernieRoehl nods at MistressKatherine's suggestion of workshops
<Kilted_One> at least they sell tea, jen <winks>
* BernieRoehl makes a note that we need to schedule some more :-)
<jen{SE}> it's a good thing too :-)
<MistressKatherine> yes we do Bernie...when is the next one in the Brantford area
* kierana invites E/everyone to my coffee shop...*evil subbie grin*
<laralynn> lol where is it kierana
<jen{SE}> i think the best thing to offer someone new is friendship and talking, not rushing them to play
* lil^tigress groans .. oh no.. not that supersweet lemonade *giggles*
<Achilles{tr}> is it possible to introduce someone to the culture if you are not, yourself, interested in starting a relationship with them?
<`abi> now *there* is a concept kierana ... give whole new meaning to "hot" coffee :)
<laralynn> lol
* firestar{LO} slips into something... ummm less revealing, heads to kierana's cafe
<fiestyone> i have brought other subs into the community
<fiestyone> i have no interest in other subs
<LORD`WOLF> pick me up on the way bi firestar
<fiestyone> for myself
<shadoe{S}> of course you can intro someone to the culture without being interested in them "that way". i introde'd my son
<kierana> yes Achilles Sir...i have no interest in other subs and those seem to be the ones who see me as the answer girl
<jen{SE}> i think it is a mistake many make, they are interested in someone vanilla, and try to convert them by introducint them to the community
<saucyboy> i think it's important for hardwired bdsm folk to seek out the community and lifestyle... not be introduced to it as something new.
* jen{SE} holds steady to you can't make a submissive, they are born
* kierana smiles at abi...well next time in london come on in for a "hot" cuppa...:)
<MistressKatherine> another way is to invite them to a private party and use your sub as a demo for the other's interested in the lifestyle and wanting to learn more
<LORD`WOLF> love demos
<MistressKatherine> as long as your sub consents to it though
<shadoe{S}> *agrees with MistressKatherine*
* jen{SE} has been the demo sub *smiles* @ MistressKatherine, thinks it might have backfired.. *lol*, SE and the canes is not a mild thing
<shadoe{S}> i dont think she's referring to a full blown scene though jen
<kierana> i like the munch or workshop routes...pretty safe, yet informative for the new person
<shadoe{S}> just a polite intro.. an exploration
<Sweet1`> lol @jen
<shadoe{S}> done by the "learning" dominant
<jen{SE}> has done that too
<jen{SE}> ouch to the wrap,,,,
<shadoe{S}> indeed
<shadoe{S}> which is why we have to be good natured and okay to it lol
<MistressKatherine> but i do think we should use the munches and workshops as our main target for newbie's
<jen{SE}> agrees with MistressKatherine
<LORD`WOLF> i have been ask how one know they are dom or dommie
<yummy> you don't like meeting one and one and talking MistressKatherine?
<yummy> one on one
<MistressKatherine> as for myself i would love to see a workshop dealing with rope's and knot's
* `abi bigtime wants a bootblacking workshop
* Achilles{tr} chuckles
<kierana> bootblacking, abi?
* kierana thinks...ummmmm nm abi...i think i got
<Achilles{tr}> Check out My boots next time ya see U/us kierana.
<BernieRoehl> So what about people who are very shy, too shy to even attend a munch or a brunch or a workshop, let alone a play party or fetish night?
* laralynn grins...that was me until today
<lil^tigress> those are the ones who is best to talk to one on one.. as at least until they are more comfortable with meeting more people who are like minded
<kierana> yes Achilles Sir...i will :)
<MistressKatherine> yes that is a good point...have notice that at our Munch....Lixel had pointed it out to me
<saucyboy> that's like someone who wants to play hockey, afraid of trying on skates Bernie....
<kierana> or what about the ppl who just don't want to go to public parties?
<Sweet1`> they will find what they are comfortable with, not up to us
<`abi> well, Bernie ... I think that eventually, taking that first step becomes the first edge to get pushed
<MistressKatherine> you always have to watch for the shy one's that attend and make them feel welcomed
<saucyboy> theres tonnes of bdsm lit on the net for people who want to stay private... the whole point, i think, of this group is acceptance through community..
<shadoe{S}> gad.. not the community word again
<MistressKatherine> good one saucyboy
<Achilles{tr}> Yes.... one can certainly have a bdsm interest without a need for the community. It can be a little more difficult to meet a partner but it's up to each person to decide for themselves what they need. Best W/we can do is respond appropriately if they exhibit a need for the community and hwat it has to offer. <smiles>
* Sweet1` agrees with shadoe
<`abi> having a cute butt like saucyboys is a bonus, but everyone should feel welcome :)
* jen{SE} nods @ shadoe{S}
<Achilles{tr}> Oh MAn... is THAT what's been meant by not using the 'c' word all this time?
<LORD`WOLF> the one who repeatly stand or sit close to the group
<Achilles{tr}> No wonder I've been confused.
<laralynn> lolol
* saucyboy gets a bigger hat for his growing head.. thanx abi..
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's approaching 10 pm. Even though we started late, I think we've covered a lot of ground.
<BernieRoehl> Anyone have any more thoughts before we close the discussion log?
<`abi> ;)
<BernieRoehl> Apparently not. :-)
<LORD`WOLF> i agrre BernieRoehl
<saucyboy> Lower Taxes
<laralynn> lol
<kierana> lol saucyboy
<Achilles{tr}> get saucyboy out to events!
<jen{SE}> don't coddle the newbies, treat them like adults not children,
<LORD`WOLF> but how does one answer the question what am i
<Kilted_One> truthfully LORD`WOLF
<kierana> that answer has to come from within, LW my opinion anyways
<Achilles{tr}> Depends LW... is it preced by, "I know you are but..",?
<BernieRoehl> Okay, I'll close the discussion log there. As always, please feel free to continue chatting informally.
<saucyboy> thanx Bernie..
<kierana> thank You Bernie Sir...was a good discussion
<BernieRoehl> Thanks to everyone who participated!
<kierana> :))
<LORD`WOLF> ty BernieRoehl
<Kilted_One> thanks Bernie