September 8 2002 EhBC Online Discussion

September 8, 2002 EhBC Online Discussion

<BernieRoehl> I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using twisted.ma.us.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion is "Public Play, Private Play... Differing Expectations". The moderator is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
* jen{SE} brb
<BernieRoehl> So... any opening comments?
<fiestyone> good to be back......
<maidenEarth> I'm thinking that the discussion will fragment into expectations of single people and those of couples, because I imagine they are very different
<fiestyone> nice to see you Sir
<BernieRoehl> Possibly, maidenEarth. Different in what ways?
<maidenEarth> Single people developing relationships in the lifestyle I suspect have safety concerns in private play that may not be there for a couple.
<Kilted_One> having hosted several pvt parties and attended several public ones there is a world of a difference between the two
<maidenEarth> Sex may be an expectation of a couple during private play hwere it may not be for singles.
<BernieRoehl> I think that's generally true, maidenEarth, but of course (as always) it varies depending on the people involved
<BernieRoehl> Can you list some of the differences, KO?
<Angel`Fox> Evening :o)
<maidenEarth> I think it would vary at every step of a relationship. I wonder what might be the same, is there a common thread?
<jen{SE}> even private parties can be different
<Kilted_One> Rules tend to be more cumbersome in a Public party than prv, atmoshere is another, what is allowed in the way of play another
<jen{SE}> public ones tend to have more stringent rules then private parties
<jen{SE}> private parties the rules will reflect whomever is giving the party
<jen{SE}> some say sex is a no no, some say yay, some just say take your dead bodies with you (my favorite)
* Sweet1` grins, mine too!
<rhiannon{KO}> lol@jen
<maidenEarth> hey, friends will help you move but REAL friends will help you move a body.
<BernieRoehl> So whether sex is allowed or not is one major factor that differentiates privat from public play
<Kilted_One> the number of ppl at one v's the other is normally quite different, and the last one for the now is that pvt ppl mostly know each other....
<BernieRoehl> What are some of the others?
<jen{SE}> each has it's good points and bad points depending on the mind set you go in with
<jen{SE}> or as the discussion title says, your expectations
<BernieRoehl> So there's a different comfort level for people at a private event, since everyone knows each other (directly or indirectly). What effect does that greater comfort have on the event itself?
<maidenEarth> Public play does place limits on everyone, but the limits may be viewed differently depending on who you are with. For a couple the limits may be too tight, but much desired by people playing with each other for the first few times.
<maidenEarth> Sex, nudity, fire, wax, lots of limits.
<maidenEarth> Also perhaps with public play there may be gawkers, people who aren't into the lifestyle, who just want some live porn.
<BernieRoehl> Wow, IRC is acting up tonight
<BernieRoehl> Let's keep going, and hope people can rejoin us shortlly
<BernieRoehl> So, do people have a preference between private play and public play? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
* BernieRoehl sighs as another netsplit hits
<maidenEarth> Feed back is something that I see going around where people know each other, and respect each other.
<maidenEarth> you only get that when people are comfortable.
<BernieRoehl> So at a private event, people would be be more likely to talk to each other casually about the scenes, and provide feedback?
<Justice^> dalnet has had some significant problems for the past couple of weeks
<BernieRoehl> Let's hang in for a bit and see if people can get reconnected
<maidenEarth> wow, nobody here but us chickens
<Justice^> lol
* BernieRoehl drums his fingers on the table
<BernieRoehl> We're all on twisted, and we're getting long ping times to each other
<BernieRoehl> I'm going to try a different server. Any suggestions?
<Justice^> [21:25] [BernieRoehl PING reply]: 4secs
<Justice^> -
<Justice^> [21:25] [maidenEarth PING reply]: 2secs
<BernieRoehl> I was getting ten times those numbers a minute ago....
<maidenEarth> Well, from the parties I have been to, there seems to be quite a bit os after scene chat, comparing notes, offering suggestions, and in general comraderie.
<BernieRoehl> The fact that the numbers are smaller at private parties (sort of like this channel right now!) makes for that more relaxed atmosphere
<maidenEarth> You have a machine that goes ping? They are very expensive complicated machines I hear.
* BernieRoehl chuckles
<BernieRoehl> Ah, and the gang's all here!
<BernieRoehl> Looks like the netsplit is healed
<maidenEarth> Welcome back everyone!
<BernieRoehl> So, were any of the other little islands of connectivity able to keep the conversation going, and if so, can you catch us up?
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, Justice^
<maidenEarth> Maybe the air in here finally cleared...
* jen{SE} ok, that bouce hurt
<DebUTaunt> wb jen
<MrScotdom> good point jewel... it is always a revolving door of experienced clientel
<QTIP> personally, i'd rather play in private
<MrScotdom> We all knew nothing at one point
<QTIP> less distraction
* jen{SE} Thank You
<LORD`WOLF> open admits i am still learning
<MrScotdom> Thats what I meant to say before I said what I said... eh?
<jen{SE}> the semi private ones can be interesting
<maidenEarth> oh no, now we lost Bernie...
<jen{SE}> but the true private ones are where, i never know what SE will have in store for me, so i am more on edge
<BernieRoehl> I'm back -- just changing servers
* DarkAngel^{rt} asks for topic pls ?
<mist{LW}> maidenEarth, Bernie is always a bit lost ;}
* BernieRoehl smiles
<MrScotdom> Events for the most part derive the core membership from a relative geographic area.
<jen{SE}> *smiles* at the revolving door, does the lifestyle come with a rolodex too, feels that way sometimes *grins*
<Sir_StephenS> what is the difference between the revolving door types and the committed players at public events...are the former just not 'into it' as much
* BernieRoehl notes that because of the netsplit, the discussion log will be somewhat sparse and fragmented this week
<DarkAngel^{rt}> mine seems to jen{SE}
<jen{SE}> :-) @ DarkAngel^{rt}
<jewel`{F}> well as i have said i have only been in the public scene since last February, and i am learning the differences but for this discussion can we please get deffinitions of public, private and semi private play parties please?
* BernieRoehl re-sends the auto-message, which some people may have missed because of the netsplit...
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using twisted.ma.us.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion is "Public Play, Private Play... Differing Expectations". The moderator is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<Sweet1`> neither are the latter much of the time SS because of too many restrictions
<BernieRoehl> Public events are typically open to the public, ticket sales at the door, anyone can just show up and be admitted
<jen{SE}> public is for example Kiss Kiss Bang, Bang, LImelight etc
<jen{SE}> semi would be the DAL's, Kano's, etc..
<BernieRoehl> Private parties are typically held in someone's home, and have few if any rules
<jen{SE}> private is a private home/venue
<jewel`{F}> thank you
<Kilted_One> How many different events have you been too that you base that last comment on??
<jen{SE}> my definitions anyway
<BernieRoehl> Semi-private would be those with a guest list, which avoids gawkers and other issues
<DebUTaunt> as one who's hosted a lot of private parties -- I have lots and lots of rules
<DebUTaunt> I think it's unfair to imply that someone's home is a freefor all
<jewel`{F}> jen{SE} that is what i was thinking as well but wanted to be sure
<DebUTaunt> just different rules for different reasons
<jen{SE}> most private parties have rules, they are the house rules
<BernieRoehl> True enough -- private parties can have rules, but for the most part they're much more relaxed than those at public or semi-public events
<jen{SE}> the rules reflect the Host
<Sweet1`> more often than not, the house rules reflect the guests as well
<jen{SE}> or Hostess
<BernieRoehl> Most public and semi-public events have anywhere from one to three pages of rules, whereas private ones are usually a sentence or two
<Sweet1`> many house parties rely on a level of common sense and courtesy
<jen{SE}> *lol*, the Host/ess usually invite like minded people
* DarkAngel^{rt} recently had a Private Party ,,, my contract signing ,,,, at the slaves house (since she is a better houskeeper) ,, minimal rules are the norm
<Sweet1`> exactly jen :)
<MrScotdom> Where safety is concerned I would hope that an across the board set of rules are implemented.
<DebUTaunt> I'd allow nudity or sex... but no candle play, no needle play on my leather couch, no sex in the hottub
<DebUTaunt> I could easily get to 3 pages.. <g>
<MrScotdom> hahahahah
<jen{SE}> *lol*, ahhhh and i was eying that hot tub Madame :-)))
<BernieRoehl> And yes -- the rules reflect the host(s)
<LORD`WOLF> me too
<DebUTaunt> jen is a good example of a perfect guest...
<jen{SE}> but as was said, it is usually common courtesy, treat someone elses home as you would want yours treated
<DebUTaunt> and there are others who will never be invited back
<DarkAngel^{rt}> the (using the discussions definitions) semi - private events ,, only set the upper limit on allowable play ,,, and this is usually based on the Venues concerns, obviously the Law ,, as well as what the Host or Hosts are willing to risk
<MrScotdom> Scotdom rules 1: Have fun 2: Don't touch my cheese 3: Dont touch my cheese
<jen{SE}> :-)
<rhiannon{KO}> ohhh, kewl, then we can torment your cat, pop your waterbed, and have sex on your livingroom rug heheheheheheh..;)
<LORD`WOLF> has same rules MrScotdom but me the ladies my touch
<Sir_StephenS> how about 4. Dont move my cheese
<jen{SE}> private parties and semi private parties usually have less turn up on the lists the next day, the did you see what so and so did, gasp etc.. than public parties have
<MrScotdom> semen and mink are a bad mix.... er... so they tell me
<Sweet1`> lol, i suspect you might do it once rhiannon{KO}!!
<jen{SE}> *lol* @ rhiannon{KO}
<LORD`WOLF> may tough
<DarkAngel^{rt}> well MrScotdom ,,, it doesnt matter what event you are talking about ,,, rules are always " across the board " -- meaning aplicable to all ,,, otherwise you are talking about Hosts allowing "friends" to ignore rules ,,,,, a recipie for disaster, not to mention ridicule to our lifestyle
<LORD`WOLF> too busy to talk about what others did or did not do doing my own thing and keeping the brat inline
<MrScotdom> If rules are always across the board... then were we not just discussing rules reflecting the host? I am confused.
<jen{SE}> only time and place everyone will agree on the rules is in my own house with just me and SE and i know who makes the rules and who has to obey them *lol*, no discussion or argument
<jen{SE}> MrScotdom in context of private parties, not public
<Sweet1`> i have one rule, and so far no one has broken it, nor have i felt the need to add more
<MrScotdom> I am making reference to a common understanding of safety rules... regardless of the individual rules set by each individual host
<Kilted_One> it is a popular misconception that you are safer at a Private party than a public one ....reality is that the amount of impartial DM's at a public one makes them way safer and it is just nerves of being in public that has to be overcome
<DarkAngel^{rt}> now listen here rhiannon{KO} ,,,, about that sex on the rug thing ,,, I did appologise ,,, I wont allow rt to make such a mess again ,,, we did offer those lovely drop cloths for the next time ,,, and havent I been a good boy since ? *Dom Smile*
<rhiannon{KO}> LOL..LOL
<Sweet1`> safety is subjective
<Sweet1`> to those playing
<rhiannon{KO}> feeling guilty there DA???? and if you remember, you guys didn't have sex on the rug....LOL
<jen{SE}> can't say they are universal then MrScotdom because SE and i have no limits and no safe words, no public party will allow that
<rhiannon{KO}> and i do emphisize the word GUYS...hehehehehe.
* rhiannon{KO} give DA a big hug...
<BernieRoehl> True enough jen, but since you wouldn't be safewording, the DM's shouldn't have a problem with it (I would think)...?
<Sweet1`> yeah they have and do BernieRoehl
<DarkAngel^{rt}> LOL ,, ok rhiannon{KO} ,, but the 3 subs involved with that particular ,, uhh ,, mess ,, never repeated the offence ,,, *Sheepish Wink* and we had the drop cloths to enjoy the next show
<Sweet1`> maybe not all of them
<MrScotdom> Red Yellow and Green are universally understood terms correct? Regardless of the party... would it not be appropriate to have those same expectations?
<rhiannon{KO}> very true DA...i agree 110%
* Kilted_One agrees with Bernie because he doesnt beleive that "Fuck you SIR" could be construed as a safe word
* BernieRoehl smiles at Kilted_One
<jen{SE}> safety is a personal thing for some people, SE is responsible for my safety
<maidenEarth> very unsafe i would think
<Angel`Fox> lol KO
<jen{SE}> lol, it works for me and SE,,
<Sweet1`> no it's not MrScotdom...not everyone uses safewords, nor uses those ones if they do
<LORD`WOLF> my slave used that one before i did not think it was a safe word
* jen{SE} would never utter anyone of those words, red, green, or yellow
<MrScotdom> Is there any universally used safe words in this community?
* mist{LW} remembers lol, nope, He did not think it was a safe word at all
<Sweet1`> no
* jewel`{F} has learned that ouch and fuck that hurt Sir do not count as safe words
<jen{SE}> *smiles*, off topic, not safeword night
<rhiannon{KO}> i know what you mean jen{SE}, i have never used those words myself.
<Guest22> "safeword?" perhaps?
<Kilted_One> maybe there is a little confusion between "safewords" and safety........one is only a smaller part of the other
<LORD`WOLF> or any of them other names i was refer to
<jen{SE}> exactly KO, a safe word does not make me safe
<DarkAngel^{rt}> well safe words etc ,, are an aspect of the semi public event ,,, IMO ,, there is a HUGE seperation of a totaly private party ,,, and even the semi private ones ,,, lol ,, I know,, I have a venue (business that would like to keep their various licences - liquior, hotel, bath house, adult establishment, business etc etc.) and have every right to demand and enforce
<MrScotdom> What are DM's to expect at different event? Different safe words per couple? Per event?
<jen{SE}> private or public party
<mist{LW}> the only problem is that if one does not have safeword, then a DM might have to step in to see if the person is all right, because they have no way of knowing the level of tolerance of that person when being played with
<rhiannon{KO}> to think of it, i don't think i have ever heard red, green, yellow used at any play partie i have ever been to.???
<`abi> you know...for all the foo-fa about safewords, I have never known the presence or lack of them to be a problem at any event I have ever attended
<jen{SE}> exactly DA so for the peace of mind i will say my safe words are the standard...
<mist{LW}> umm, i used yellow last night for a really nasty wrap
<mist{LW}> so yes, they are used
<jen{SE}> that is one of the difference between public and private
<rhiannon{KO}> well mist{LW}, i sure never heard you use it..;) you must of been very quiet..
<jen{SE}> exactly abi, can anyone remember safewords or lack of being a problem
<mist{LW}> i dont like to use them, but i will if the need occurs
<yummy> i have seen "red" ignored at one party but only once i think
<BernieRoehl> Public and semi-public events generally list the "house safe words", which are typically red, yellow, green. Private events typically don't list them, or necessarily enforce them (though I think any reasonable host would treat an ignored "red" as a call to intervene)
<maidenEarth> Is it possible that people can go further into fantasy in private?
<Kilted_One> the really puplic events in TO for example dont have DM's at all so there would be no expectations of safe word usage
<yummy> and didn't get ignored for long
<MrScotdom> I totally absolutely unoquivically am definately still not sure!
<LORD`WOLF> i think for most the use of safe words is a must safety precation
<Sweet1`> quite often at private parties if a dom is going to try something new, he/she has already recruited help
<DebUTaunt> I think maidenEarth asked a really good question
<DarkAngel^{rt}> safe words really are a seperete discusion IMO
<jen{SE}> *smiles*, hmmm wonders about the DOM whose submissive has to depend on the DM to stop a scene is she is saying red, would not her Dom be the most concerned and first to react
* BernieRoehl agrees with DarkAngel^{rt} -- safewords are a bit off-topic
<LORD`WOLF> my concern is when does a dm step in
<BernieRoehl> The question here is mostly about peoples' expectations of public vs private
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Private events dont see the same occurances of casual play is anouther point ,,, thus the need for such basic liability coverage is not as necessary
<DebUTaunt> maidenEarth asked if there was more expectation of fantasy in private...
<`abi> there are many reasons for safewords to exist, whether or not they are actually used is highly individual ... but no submissive at any play party, public or private should ever be made to feel that they are inappropriate
<DebUTaunt> last nite was a good example of fantasy props being more availalbe at a public party
<MrScotdom> If the sub was playing with another rather than her Dom... it is a possibility. With so many permutations of if come maybe use this safeword that one none at all... I can see where the job of a DM is more an individual criteria.
<jen{SE}> my expectations are simple, i go to have fun, to relax
<DebUTaunt> i.e. theme rooms
<Kilted_One> when he/she feels it is necessary LORD`WOLF, rightly or wrongly
<DarkAngel^{rt}> depends on the event LORD`WOLF ,,, and the structures instituted by the events Host and/or Chief DM
<maidenEarth> jen{SE}, I agree, it's about having fun.
<DebUTaunt> maidenEarth? what kind of fantasy were you thinking?
<Sweet1`> my expectations of public parties has dropped over time...i hoped to see new things and learn new things, techniques etc, but since most are so restrictive this doesn't happen much anymore
<jen{SE}> i expect to show respect for the Host/ess, wether it be public, semi-public, or private
<jen{SE}> i expect confidentiality
<`abi> I think it depends on the fantasies DebUTaunt ... some are more readily fed by public play, others by private ...
<DebUTaunt> I can see a "play" rape going better in private than in public
<jen{SE}> perks :_)
<MrScotdom> Yes confidentiality is very important.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> jen{SE} ,,, that is so basic ,,, so properly stated,,, as well so often forgotten ,,, thank you for that dear
* BernieRoehl is going to let the discussion go a little past 10 pm, since we lost a few minutes due to the netsplit earlier
<SkyDom> I think he figured that if we all pool our talents, we can get ya thru this.......:)
<jen{SE}> i expect cleaniness *lol*, some public places are not the cleanest, has the willies about sitting down in some places
<maidenEarth> DebUTaunt, I think private play lends itself to fantasy much better, where for me, public play is where I expect to learn, try new equipment that is graciously provided for our pleasure, and be more technical.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> how so re: last night DebUTaunt ?
<jen{SE}> my pleasure DA :-)
<DebUTaunt> maidenEarth asked a good question... I was wanting her to clarify and she has..
<DebUTaunt> DA, I asked you a question last nite that we differed on... I feel that over-long scenes in public are somewhat rude to those waiting
<mist{LW}> i think fantasy can be fun in both public and private, private can allow for a much deeper fantasy, perhaps darker ones too, than public
<DebUTaunt> note, you HAVE provided a system for (somewhat) alleviating that
<DebUTaunt> agree mist{LW}
<LORD`WOLF> does not have room for own equipment to plat at the level he does at dal
<maidenEarth> Yes mist, exactly
<mist{LW}> it would be hard to role play the victim of an abduction with tons of conversations all around, but in a room with only a few couples it would be very easy
<MrScotdom> If I may ask... who owns the equipment at DAL (for example)
<DarkAngel^{rt}> to expand on jen{SE}'s point ,,, it matters not weather it is TOTALLY Private, semi Private, or Public ,,, each person no matter their chosen lifestyle role ,,, should respect, uphold, and support the Host's rules ,, this goes past Protocol, past ettiquete, and is just plain common sence no matter the lifestyle involved
<DebUTaunt> I recognized a ton of it as KO's
* BernieRoehl agrees with DarkAngel^{rt}
<DebUTaunt> so.. personally loaned
* Kilted_One puts his hand up for about half of it
<DebUTaunt> and much appreciated
<MrScotdom> OH... a good example of co-op LOL
<mist{LW}> a variety of people are kind enough to loan their own stuff to DAL, which i am sure we all appreciate to no end
<mist{LW}> hard to hide a cross in a two bedroom apartment, when the grandkids come calling lol
<mist{LW}> its hard enough to hide the floggers etc
* edri{AF} has just got to get a look at KO' s workshop one day
<Kilted_One> you should get some pointer on the from DebUTaunt, mist{LW}
<mist{LW}> it will make you drool edri
* DebUTaunt chuckles
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's 10 pm, and even though we're going to run a bit over, we should try and wrap up the discussion
<mist{LW}> on what, hiding a cross, or avoiding the grandkids finding toys?
<MrScotdom> The topic has been expectations. I think it would be a good time to thank everyone who supplys equipment, a building and all the work in between regardless of our "expectations". We are fortunate to have pioneers amongst us that make it happen for we kinksters.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> DAL equipment is,,, so muchly appreciated,,, loaned by Kilted_One, BernieRoehl ,, with a few pieces also added by myself as well as Miss J and even jewel`{F}(one of last nights desks)
<Kilted_One> ohh that is just for starters....the floors have been well sealed to accept a wide range of bodily fluids edri
<DebUTaunt> DiGGer and I have gotten creative
<mist{LW}> :}
<BernieRoehl> Anyone have any closing thoughts on public vs private play?
<fiestyone> let the games begin.....and enjoy......!!!!!!
<jen{SE}> for me, for the intensity i enjoy private parties, for the edge i can go to, for the social i enjoy the public parties, i just miss getting to see extreme play
<edri{AF}> heh
<mist{LW}> just that both public and private parties have their place, and hopefully we will see more of both in the future :}
<LORD`WOLF> never been to private enjoy dal looking to be invited to others
<MrScotdom> I have always found the atmosphere to be cordial and sensually charged.. much better than any rerun of Startrek LOL
<jewel`{F}> i would like to thank those that give of their time to organize the parties no matter the type so that others can get out and enjoy themselves
<rhiannon{KO}> i agree with you jen{SE}..both are just as important, but each focuses on a different part of our needs/wants.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I would say BernieRoehl ,,, that no matter the structure ,,, we as a community benifit ,, so the Host(s) should be respected and allowed to set it up as they please
<edri{AF}> Once I get in my new place KO I want to see some designs for cages/cell
<mist{LW}> ohh, KO has such a nice iron maiden cage for His slave :}
<BernieRoehl> ... and that sums it up pretty well
<LORD`WOLF> agres with DarkAngel^{rt}
* rhiannon{KO} smiles a BIG smile...it is a purdy cage...*blush*
<BernieRoehl> So, let's end the formal part of the discussion there. I'll close the log, and start processing and uploading it.
<BernieRoehl> Please feel free to continue chatting informally.
<BernieRoehl> Thanks everyone for participating!
<jen{SE}> :-)
* `vixie quietly sneaks up and huggles rhiannon{KO}
<rhiannon{KO}> thank You BernieRoehl.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I like, enjoy, and support the myrad of different events and individuals we as a community have in SW Ontario
<MrScotdom> Does that mean I can start talking gleswegian noo?
<BernieRoehl> Oh, and remember -- we're going to need moderators in the weeks ahead, so please drop me a line (broehl@ehbc.ca) if you can help out
<mist{LW}> its funny DA, that some people should think that they have the right to tell an even host what to do, when its the hosts who take all the risks, spend money and time to set up
* rhiannon{KO} hugz `vixie back..;)
* `vixie smiles
* `vixie waves a quiet hello
<mist{LW}> thats an event host
<Angel`Fox> Greets all :o)
<Angel`Fox> ltns :o)
<Kilted_One> huggers back at ya vixie
<jen{SE}> Good night A/all , SE has been patient *lol*, past bedtime :-)
<rhiannon{KO}> night jen{SE}..hugz..
<BernieRoehl> g'night, jen!
<Sweet1`> night jen :)
* `vixie lugs out her very dusty neglected pillow, bangs it to let the dust out, and plops down for a bit
<MrScotdom> goodnight jen
<jewel`{F}> good night A/all
* BernieRoehl gives `vixie a hug
<rhiannon{KO}> please say hello to SE for U/us.
<Kilted_One> huggers and night jen say hiya to SE for us
* `vixie hugs back
* jen{SE} waves, and i will KO
<BernieRoehl> Going offline to upload the log. See you all later...
<MrScotdom> 27 was a good turn out this evening