August 31, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

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<becky> hi Justice
<Justice> evening becky
* Johncin taps his monitor, seems to be stuck
* _cassie taps back at Johncin
* Johncin waves to cassie
* _dove didn't realize the discussion was in morse code
<_cassie> I take it tonight's discussion is quiet?
<Johncin> non exisitent lol
<Justice> not anymore cassie - you're elected to lead
<_cassie> lol
<Justice> since you are relatively new cassie, perhaps you can tell us what things the group could do to make it easier for new people to ease into the group/scene
<_cassie> oh my
* _cassie feels the spotlight turn to her hehe
<_cassie> Are you serious, Justice?
<Justice> sure cassie - the group is always reaching out to interested parties ... what are we doing right or wrong?
<_cassie> Well, I can only speak for myself - but most everything that people have done for/with me has been right. People have been warm, welcoming, supportive and open with me.
<Justice> what about your first munch? was it intimidating?
<_cassie> But no one's been pushy, or rather the one or two that have been were ignored relatively quickly *grins*
<_cassie> hmmm yes and no, but thankfully I had abi there to meet. She met with me a few days beforehand so I wouldn't feel like I knew no one there, and hubby came with me too.
<Justice> so would you advise newbies to meet someone beforehand? not just immediately before the first munch but perhaps a few days or a week?
<_cassie> But the first munch (and most events since then) are still hard and a bit overwhelming at times, but that's partially because I'm shy with groups.
<_cassie> It would all depend on schedules. Meeting before the munch and going in together would be a big help. Meeting a few days beforehand gives you more time to talk and get to know one another.
* _dove agrees with cassie
* _cassie points to dove's relative newbie badge as well
<_dove> mine's all smudged cassie
<Justice> do you think it is best if like meets like initially? e.g. femsub meeting with a femsub
<_cassie> hmmm... that's what I did, but it wasn't just for the purpose of getting comfy with the munch. There were a few other reasons for the meeting.
<jen{SE}> i spent my first bunch of munches only talking to submissives, watching them, i figured if i was going to screw up better in front of another sub than a Dom *smiles*
<naughtyvickie> i did before going to my first munch..........two subs met with me few days before the munch so that i would see a couple of familiar faces when i got there
* _cassie nods
<_cassie> see... the people in this community are very welcoming to newbies, and most remember what it was like to know no one.
<_dove> That's true cassie....... Folks here seem to go out of their way to welcome people.
* _cassie nods
<jen{SE}> *lol*, remember what someone told me way back then about that, it's the fresh meat syndrome
<jen{SE}> just kidding
<jen{SE}> :-)
<_dove> lol
<_cassie> And I've found the ones who are most welcoming aren't the ones who would be interested in anything intimate.
<QTIP_> there's welcome and there's "welcome" what about the Dom collector vultures circling the new meat?
<Justice> the predators are the quiet ones cassie?
<_cassie> I ran into a few of those online... I tended to ignore most of them.
<_cassie> Well no, I phrased that badly.
<_dove> i've found that to be extremely rare here QTIP, other than obvious ones. The channel ops take care of them pretty quickly
<QTIP_> i'm talking about the local munches i've attended. i'm male. i've dealt with my own "testosteron overload"
<_cassie> Waht I meant to say was that, it's not just the people who have, uhm, deeper urges to meet you that are incredibly friendly. Dom/mes and subs alike are incredibly welcoming, even if they have no interest in you on that level.
<Justice> what about at munches and play parties though dove - is it a problem there?
<_dove> i've only been to the picnic Justice, i don't know yet
<jen{SE}> much less at munches and parties, i find, most are not as brave in person as they are on-line (brave or bold!!)
<_cassie> Ask her on September 14th, Justice *grins*
<_dove> It certainly wasn't at the picnic, Justice - but i was with 4 people who knew this was my first time out
* _dove throws a pillow at cassie
<QTIP_> some Dom males can be pretty competitive. i'm not interested in a harem or stable. it's an ideal for some Dom/mes
<QTIP_> maybe i'm borderline ADHD. dealing with one sub takes most of my focus
<Justice> well, most of them are high maintenance QTIP <grin>
<_dove> i don't deal well with a poly environment, but others thrive on it
<jen{SE}> playing is different than wanting a harem or a stable, sometimes it is for the experience of playing with someone new, to see the wonder in their eyes as they experience things for the first time, not necessarily a bad thing
<_dove> and we're darned good at it Justice
<QTIP_> i think both top and bottom are here for a particular amount of attention
<QTIP_> somewhere the wires got crossed ;-)
<princess_whore> is still trying to guess what we are talking about..blushes
<_dove> open discussion princess_whore
<QTIP_> it's as much an ego trip for bottom as it is for top
<`abi> low maintenance submissives princess_whore ... got any comments
<_cassie> I'm lost again...
<_dove> What is QTIP?
<QTIP_> play
<QTIP_> "training"
<QTIP_> scening
<_dove> Thank You
<princess_whore> lmao jest
<jen{SE}> are we saying a sub can't be low maintenance?
<princess_whore> wouldnt have a clue or comment about low maintenance subs and you know it
<`abi>'s pretty much an oxymoron I think
<princess_whore> no jen{SE}..not at all..i was laughing because abi knows i am the last one to call such
<_dove> Neither role is low maintenance imo
<LrdThomas> a high maintenace slave is a paradox.
<jen{SE}> *lol*, i figured that, but i wonder what defines high maintenance?
<princess_whore> actually..i would say that i do not need micro-management..i do function very independently
<QTIP_> isn't it about the sexual intensity...the sense of anticipation, seduction, romance? i'm sure there are sociopathic Dom/mes and self-destructive sub/slaves. that isn't to my taste at all
* _cassie nods
<_cassie> People are drawn to this for many different reason.
<princess_whore> is high maintenance in some ways..and others not so much i suppose
<princess_whore> true LrdThomas
<_dove> Explain please LrdThomas?
<QTIP_> i would much rather have a strong sub, who knows what she wants, and who inspires me then an 18 yr old newbie, piced of elbow jewelry. but that's just me
<QTIP_> piece, rather
<princess_whore> I need a Dom to be incredibly responsible for me..that is high maintainence...but not to be micro managed..i am very that is not
<LrdThomas> a slave is to serve and please... if she takes an unwarranted amount of work to control, she isn't a slave, but just another me me me girl.
<_dove> thank you LrdThomas
<krista-F> agree with you totally LrdThomas
<LrdThomas> comes down to what motivates.
<LrdThomas> why is she there in the first place/
<princess_whore> agreed LrdThomas..but some of us are only lowly submissives that do not warrent slave status...nor do we claim it
<LrdThomas> that is another whole discussion.
<princess_whore> fully admits to being a that will is easily ruled by a king..but a princess no less
<`abi> that also assumes LrdThomas, that owning someone whose purpose is to serve and please does not require any effort on the part of the Dominant ... and I'd disagree
<LrdThomas> i don't agree with that statement abi. i said 'unwarranted' amouint of effort to control.
<LrdThomas> and there are plenty of gals like that.
<_dove> a sub or slave doesn't have to be unruly to be high maintenance - my opinion only though
<Symmetre> one has to wonder why one might be high maintenance. is it their personality, or an inability of that perticular dom to inspire a sense of submission? Sometimes people are just a bad match
<`abi> then defining what is 'warranted' becomes the issue ... and that rather depends on the effort/reward ratio
<jen{SE}> any relationship requires maintenance or work on both sides
<princess_whore> i do not think i take a lot of effort to control..sometimes i wish more was needed actually..i just carry on doing as i am told and get frustrated because it is not acknowledged
<_dove> agreed jen
<QTIP_> we, in the bdsm community, are more willing to share what's going on inside ourselves. i know of D/s houses were a yearly contract is signed. imagine that going on in a vanilla household
<princess_whore> but since i am not a brat..i just keep on doing it..then i dont want to "bug" with my frustration because that would require effort on the Doms
<QTIP_> ... a yearly reassessment of what's changed
<jen{SE}> it does QTIP_ it's called a marriage certificate
<`abi> the same reason that an expensive car is high maintenance Symmetre .. anything worth having is worth taking care of .. and that takes some effort
<LrdThomas> exactly abi. it is all about ratio's. And it is also about the kind of work. There is good work and shit work. Spome slaves take too much shit work to make any progress. Others it is a labour of love to keep her moving forward with you, smoothly, happily.
<QTIP_> does it jen{SE}?
<QTIP_> people change, as can roles and expectations
<Symmetre> I don't know about that abi ... I don't think high maintenance has to be an automatic thing. If people are a good fit, it shouldn't take an exceptional effort from either to make things work well
<jen{SE}> *smiles*, yes it does QTIP_ i have seen relationships with contracts end much the same as a marriage does.. hurt feelings on both sides, a contract does not protect
<jen{SE}> agrees with Symmetre
<QTIP_> but it does open up an avenue towards a conversation that is uncommon
<_cassie> hmmm... just because things don't come without struggle doesn't mean two people aren't a good fit.
<_dove> i guess it would depend on what we define as being high maintenance
<QTIP_> i'm one manipulative SOB. i was trained by the best. thanks mom ;-)
<jen{SE}> maybe it is the phrase high maintenace, it sounds negative, when necessarily not, Relationships take work, but i don't define that as high maintenance
<`abi> and 'maintenance' does not necessarily mean struggle ... it means taking responsibility, taking time, paying attention, meeting needs ... and I suspect it can be quite rewarding
* _cassie agrees with jen
<_dove> The more a submissive gives control over to a Dominant, the more responsibilty the Dominant has. To me, that submissive is higher maintenance - which is a good thing
<Symmetre> high maintenance = to the point it is such a pain in the ass you question why you bother
<jen{SE}> agrees with abi, but the problem most translate high maintenance to be micro managed brat.... etc.......
<_dove> That wasn't my definition of high maintenance, Symmetre...... i understand now *s*
<_cassie> I view the term "high maintenance" being more than a little negative. It links in my mind to being needy, spoiled, fussy, demanding, etc.
<LrdThomas> bingo cassie.
<`abi> I guess it's semantics ... I view high maintenance as being worthy of attention
<princess_whore> i define myself as high maintainence..and i also think i am deserving of it..but i dont think i am those things cassie mentioned..those are other's pre-concieved notions
<princess_whore> nods at abi..there you go
<_dove> i think it's a question of how one defines it, princess_whore, that's what was confusing me
<`abi> no, there you go princess_whore ;)
<jen{SE}> which to me is a given abi or why else would we be in a relation shoip
<jen{SE}> oops typing
<QTIP_> `abi, there is a game to be played with worthiness as well. for some, "earning" ones reward holds a lot more worth
<LrdThomas> high maintenance, has a definite negative connotation to my thinking, ergo the bias i comment with.
<`abi> precisely jen .. .which is why I think 'low maintenance submissive' is an oxymoron
<_cassie> I agree... I think people are viewing the term in two completely separate ways. One in a negative, more vanilla meaning, and one specific to bdsm (which isn't negative at all, depending on the dynamic of the people involved).
<princess_whore> oh no QTIP_..i am always worthy..i might play a humiliation/degradation slut ..but i actually have very high expectations of my worth
<_dove> exactly cassie.
<QTIP_> i did say, "for some..."
<princess_whore> understood LrdThomas
<princess_whore> you did QTIP_
<_dove> Now that i understand where you are coming from LrdThomas, your comments makes sense to me
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<`abi> that would be the effort/reward part of the equation QTIP_ ... if the effort invested isn't worthwhile, then the investment in the high maintenance doesn't pay off ... and you get another car ... errrr... submissive
<_dove> i don't want a submissive abi, can i have a car?
<LrdThomas> lol
* _cassie puts in an order for a Jag... if we're talking high maintenance.
<jen{SE}> it
<_cassie> Perhaps we can compare it to gardening...
<jen{SE}> it's a meeting of needs, if your needs match the maintenance levels will match
<QTIP_> it's a game. i love reading sub personal ads which say "no head games" i play with the largest sex organ. the one which resides between the ears
<_cassie> some people want a garden that is easy to care for, requires little effort, but they enjoy it for what it is.
<_cassie> Others enjoy having things that are more fragile, take more care to keep them healthy, etc. and they enjoy that garden for what it is.
<_dove> good analogy cassie
<_cassie> One garden isn't better than another type... it's all in what the person wants, needs and is willing to devote to it.
<QTIP_> i just love the metaphor of the orchid garden in The Secretary
<_cassie> uh oh... have to run
* _cassie waves
* jen{SE} waves goodnight
<QTIP_> zoom. and out they fly
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