August 8, 2004 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Bringing them Across... Introducing New People to the Scene". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
* Symmetre flirts shamelessly with da ModBot
<arhiannah> Symmy ya
<Symmetre> I'm a sucker for a bot that still can't spell
<Symmetre> "Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion ... " OUR regular, me thinks
<tvsubbie> so, would anyone like to start??
<ThatGrrl> Does someone just start talking about the topic or is something prepared? This is the first time I've made it to a discussion.
<daria> not sure what it meant
<ethereal> so short of putting a hood over someone's head and tieing them to a cross does anyone have any ideas about introducing newbies? ;)
<arhiannah> well.....i'm having just such an opportunity present itself to me....
* Symmetre listens to arhiannah
<daria> <---never played so a newb
<daria> well sorta
<ethereal> me too daria...but i might respond well to the method i suggested ...hehe
<tvsubbie> so daria, did anyone bring you in here, or did you find your own way?
<ThatGrrl> How dou you plan to bring up the subject with him or her arhiannah?
<daria> well i dated a guy tht handcuffed me once
<daria> we broke up and he suggested this
<arhiannah> already done it ThatGrrl....*grins*...he's ready willing & able...just needs to find his niche....and to learn how-to & what he likes
<daria> its been frightening at times
<Symmetre> so he introduced a new person to the scene, daria
<daria> ok
<daria> well thats my final answer
<daria> heheh
<daria> irc
<ThatGrrl> Glad for your arhiannah. But how did you bring it up? I've always thought that was a touchy area to just hurl at someone without knowing what they think about it.
<daria> well
<daria> you could say hey how bout i...
<daria> and see how they respond
<arhiannah> i'm very open about my kink with someone who i feel there may be's easy when you're at a munch, coz we're all there for the same reasons, no?...but in a 'nilla's a little tricky asking someone if they'd like to spank ya...
<daria> not really
<ThatGrrl> Or if you can spank them
<daria> if you sense someone might like it you can ask or i was
<abitbent> for a lot of us.. finding the lifestyle is inevitable... some of us are wired this way and we seek it out.
<ethereal> i think it really depends on the nature of the relationship...if it's someone you're close to it would be easier, i'd hope
<daria> i am at accepting who i am atm
<ethereal> if they're not so close...say a newer relationship it might be more difficult
<arhiannah> there was plenty of inuendo and i just came out and asked him if it was offensive to him...
<daria> no
<daria> i disagree
<ThatGrrl> In my experience I told my boyfriend about it, we talked, never did much. When we were married he decided he was a Dom. Still never did much. Then we got divorced.
<daria> someone sensed it in me
<tvsubbie> arhi's approach is a good one, i's worked for me...the people i've brought out to munches and events, are all people i opened up to in the first place....then, they started asking me questions...
<daria> tried some things in discussion
<Symmetre> that's often a good way to test the water .... ask the person how they feel about something like an sm scene in a movie ... get them to reveal if they're open to it or if they find it repulsive
<daria> just getting thewm to understand it is harder
<daria> anyone can spank or tiei you up
<daria> for fun
<ThatGrrl> We talked about John Norman's books, and other science fiction. That's how I brought it up.
<abitbent> i think that's where munches separate the players from the lifestylers daria
<arhiannah> my first question to him was....."so, is that cane just a walking aid or do you know how to use it?"
<daria> but understanding and not feeling bad is harder to keep them
<ThatGrrl> That was a good way to kick things off arhiannah.
<arhiannah> yeah...and he was cute...lmao
<ThatGrrl> lol
<daria> i dont thnk you understand me
<daria> lots think its exciting but are raised to think its bad
<daria> crossing over is harder
<ThatGrrl> Few are raised to think it's good.
<daria> my pt
<daria> how do you then
<ThatGrrl> You make your own decision, based on your own brain not someone else's.
<daria> true but
<daria> what if you dont understand
<ThatGrrl> Then you leave things out for them to find and discover for themselves. If they still don't get it then you have to leave them behind.
<daria> you cant make that decision nor can your partner
<ThatGrrl> You can't force it on someone.
<abitbent> i think there is a difference between bringing them across and converting someone.
<daria> true
<Symmetre> daria ... people can be attracted to and excited by things they don't understand
<daria> i am not saying that
<arhiannah> i agree abitbent
<daria> may i give my example and others
<Symmetre> please
<ThatGrrl> I think it's more about finding like people than converting anyone.
<daria> i was totally scared by what was done
<Symmetre> sorry, but I'm having a hard time following
<daria> he talked of whips
<daria> caning my pussy
<arhiannah> this particular gentleman was already halfway simply took someone like myself to allow him to be true to his feelings
<ThatGrrl> That was a bit much for someone to introduce to a newbie.
<daria> scared me but i was drawn to the lifestyle
<ThatGrrl> The lifestyle isn't about caning or whips.
<daria> exactly
<daria> i didnt comprehend that
<arhiannah> caning & whips are just the perks ;)
<daria> now i know and its great
<ThatGrrl> I think you let them see your interest and then see where their own interests lie.
<abitbent> surrounding yourself with peers at a munch daria is prolly your best beginning
<abitbent> talk to many
<daria> but someoen knew nkeeds too understand that first
<daria> isi my ot
<daria> i am ok now
<ThatGrrl> You can't start out knowing everything, you just start somewhere and figure it out as you go along. That's why munches and groups online are important.
<abitbent> well let's all agree that the hard and fast way you were introduced was unfortunate.
<ThatGrrl> I introduced myself.
<daria> so if you introduce someone i feel knowledge is key
<abitbent> i blame wonder woman ThatGrrl
<ThatGrrl> lol
<arhiannah> LOL
<ThatGrrl> She did do rope tricks.
<daria> not get them all excited first
<abitbent> Linda Carter owes me an explanation
<abitbent> :p
<Symmetre> lol
<ThatGrrl> I found a John Norman book of my Dad's left out. I started reading it and then found others, skipping to the good parts since the story itself bored me.
<daria> heheh =)
<ThatGrrl> After that I just kept learning, finding more, etc.
<abitbent> so it was inevitable for you too then ThatGrrl
<arhiannah> i always had an inkling....for example, a little rough 'nilla sex....was always like hmmm....ow...oh! more please!
<ThatGrrl> I think so. Thats why I dont think it's hard to introduce new people. They will already have the interest. Its just a matter of making it feel less "bad"
<abitbent> agrees
<daria> i agree
<abitbent> meeting munchfolk was definitely an integral part of my development.
<ThatGrrl> I think there is an image people have of someone into BDSM, big tattoos, whips, chains, piercings, etc.
<daria> yea heh
<ThatGrrl> Some are like that. Not all.
<daria> i just learn differently
<daria> i found it confusing till irc
<abitbent> well you were probably relatively alone till irc daria
<ThatGrrl> I found a lot more online too. But met a ton of trolls and such which spoiled it for me for a long time.
<ThatGrrl> If your first impression was from some troll type you'd think it was pretty hardcore.
<daria> my ex tried but long distan ce too hard
<straponlvr-m> Hello A/all
<daria> i think that is why more than anything
<ThatGrrl> Long distance has never worked out for me.
<ThatGrrl> You can't really enjoy it if you're always alone.
<daria> we arent talking a few hours drive but a 5 hour plane ride
<arhiannah> it's hard to do...been there done that
<daria> so that is an example of how it wont work
<ThatGrrl> I had an online sub who lived in Hong Kong for a few years. It was great but there was a LOT missing.
<ThatGrrl> But, now that I'm trying to find someone local they are all trolls.
<daria> yea
<abitbent> our picking pool is definitely smaller than our vanilla counterparts
<daria> i will be moving to london or TO so i want to get to those munches
<daria> yes
<ThatGrrl> Im up around Barrie. Havent been to a munch yet cause they are all too far away. But I hope to have the right day off for the next one here.
<daria> nod
<abitbent> i remember thinking i was in the wrong place when i went to my first munch.. everyone looked too normal
<ThatGrrl> Have you found better luck at muches? I think it will be just the same as online and I will leave early in disgust. lol
<daria> crossing over is hard after years of nuns and parents preaching sex is bad
<daria> bdsm in their eyes devil
<abitbent> at the very least ThatGrrl... You'll make friends... network..
<shadoe> munches are a good thing
<daria> that is another issue
<shadoe> they remind you that everyone is human
<ThatGrrl> Hope so. But I do have some thoughts that everyone will be wearing leather and tattoos. lol
<abitbent> lol
<daria> lol
<arhiannah> only half of us do ThatGrrl ;)
<ThatGrrl> Which half of you arhiannah? ;)
<arhiannah> the bottom half of course
<ThatGrrl> lol
<ThatGrrl> I've had fairly good luck with meeting people from online. Met two guys so far. Both were ok, though nothing came of it.
<abitbent> i like to think of the topic more as "guiding them across".
<ThatGrrl> Luring them across.... ;)
<arhiannah> drag 'em kicking and screaming?
<ThatGrrl> Get that carrot... lol
<abitbent> lol.. i guess it all depends on what is compatible with you personally...
<ThatGrrl> That's true.
<shadoe> are we actually talking about that?
<daria> i just think its harder for someone raised stricter
<daria> and older
<daria> i recall asking and dont laugh..
<daria> is this the only way you can get laid..bind someone
<shadoe> daria.... are you saying that it is harder for someone raised stricter to be in this life?
<daria> to accept it
<daria> being in it is easy
<daria> accepting it i havent done yet
<daria> i will just saying
<shadoe> you think it is easy?
<abitbent> many of us have demons to overcome... accepting this is a challenge to many
<daria> nope
<daria> i know from talking to lots of others it was easieri without the fear from religion
<shadoe> huh?
<shadoe> how does religion get into this?
<daria> in catholisim for instance
<daria> you are taught way different
<ThatGrrl> I had no religion problems, I think that would make it harder. Also, harder if you are a parent too.
<daria> aye
<ThatGrrl> Mom's just don't DO some of those bad things.
<daria> and i have lil boys
<shadoe> what!?
<`abi> oh yes they do
<daria> sure they do but that is how they think
<daria> initially
<ThatGrrl> Yes, Mom is still Betty Crocker.
<`abi> although, I don't think I ever thought of them as 'bad things'
<shadoe> what!?!
<ThatGrrl> I thought of them as perversions and very bad. Only someone really demented would do that stuff. Kids talked about it at school.
<shadoe> are we in some cloud here?
<daria> yes ThatGrrl
<daria> dont put me down i am being honest
<shadoe> daria.. no one is putting you down
<ThatGrrl> I don't think he/ she means it that way.
<daria> its how many of us felt
<daria> sorry shadoe
<shadoe> but if you think that moms are perfect.. i have news for you
<daria> they arent not what we are saying
<ThatGrrl> No, I don't think Moms are perfect.
<ThatGrrl> I dont think Dad's are either.
<daria> me either
<ThatGrrl> But, there is an attitude about what a Mom is and what she isn't.
<daria> then you take your kids to church heh
<shadoe> well i have to tell you
<shadoe> my mom
<daria> and it hits you hard
<shadoe> abhored the church
<shadoe> and drank like a fish
<`abi> apparently I missed that attitude lesson
<shadoe> and beat up my father.. who by the way molested me.. and my sister on a regular basis
<shadoe> and then my mom molested my brother
<shadoe> so pulllleeeeeze
<daria> my dad is an officer of the knights of columbus and my mom led the anti abortion issue here
<abitbent> i wonder if we're drifting a little off topic
<shadoe> lets not put moms on any kinda pedestal.. okay?
<daria> we are
<ThatGrrl> Just a bit lol
* `abi smiles at abitbent ... ever the tactful one ;)
<ThatGrrl> shadoe, no one is suggesting putting Moms on a pedestal.
<abitbent> ;) abi
* _dove{S} is lost
<daria> getting back on topic for some especiailly those brought uo strict it isnt easy
<shadoe> aren't we?
<daria> you cant bring those over easy or guide them
<abitbent> sure... we all have different histories... and face many challenges
<ThatGrrl> I can see that it would be different for you daria than it was for me. I already became Pagan so looking into BDSM was a bit anticlimatic.
<daria> i thought i was going to hell for sure lol
<daria> i need it tho
<ThatGrrl> Not that I'd tell my Grandmother about the BDSM part. I did try to tell her about Paganism but she couldn't understand.
<`abi>, to steer it back a little .. I don't think that parental models are much of an obstacle for people coming into the lifestyle .. however, I do think that people are often unaware of just how pervasive 'kink' really is
<daria> all i am saying
<shadoe> but what i dont understand is .. that tonight's topic was introducing people into our life
<shadoe> arent we talking about that?
<daria> sure we are
<ThatGrrl> Yes shadoe. But when people talk things meander around.
<daria> so to the pt some need more care
<ThatGrrl> As we said earlier, some will find it more shocking than others.
<ThatGrrl> But I think if the interest is there, it's there.
<daria> definitely
<`abi> but do you really think that people who are interested in becoming involved in BDSM find it 'shocking'? I have mostly found that they are relieved
<daria> relieved and scared heh
<shadoe> not shocking at all
<ThatGrrl> Also, when you introduce someone to the scene you are putting yourself at risk too, you don't know what they will think of you after you tell them you like BDSM.
<daria> its overwhelming the trust involved
<daria> i talked to my lst master or whatever
<daria> he said many want to but dont unless coaxed a bit even if the interest is there
<ThatGrrl> I'm still shocked by things I find. So, yes, I think it's realistic that even people interested in BDSM can be shocked by degrees of it.
<daria> some
<daria> those people tend to be repressed
<shadoe> okay.. i need to get a sense of people here
<daria> and are kinkier end result than most
<shadoe> daria.. do i know you?
<ThatGrrl> I don't think so. I just think peopel have different styles and tastes.
<daria> i am in windsor
<daria> so dunno
<ThatGrrl> Like choosing a book to read. Not everyone wants to read the same kind of book.
<shadoe> okay.. cool.. and in the scene
<shadoe> out of online?
<daria> not yet
<daria> i am learning still
<shadoe> and ThatGrrl
<shadoe> out of online?
<ThatGrrl> What does out of online mean?
<ThatGrrl> I havent done much online in awhile.
<daria> confused too
<shadoe> meaning you are going to munches.. parties.. away from the computer
<daria> i just got involved 2 months ago
<ThatGrrl> No munches yet, too many hours at work. But I've done things offline.
<daria> so made decision to go to munches =)
<ThatGrrl> Had a play partner.
<shadoe> daria.. if you'd like to come into TO and meet realtime.. please.. i'd love to meet you
<daria> i am going after this month
<daria> money permitting
<`abi> soooo.....why do we *want* to introduce new people?
<ThatGrrl> Why not?
<ThatGrrl> lol
<`abi> I can think of a few reasons actually
<shadoe> well okay ladies.. .. there are a ton of people who know us.. abi included.. who can vouch for our reliability
<daria> i think you can tell if someone needs it
<daria> they talk differently
<ThatGrrl> I don't need it, I just enjoy it.
<`abi> there has been quite alot of discussion in the community at large about the fact that it might just be too *easy* for people to get involved
<daria> i need it
<abitbent> help them with the struggle
<shadoe> but i'm thinking we can't discuss this topic with people who need to go real time
<daria> i am kinky and need to talk to others like me
<ThatGrrl> That's a good point abi.
<ThatGrrl> There are tons of trolls and subs who just don't get it at all.
<shadoe> daria.. that's becoming hugely obvious
<ThatGrrl> Tons of Doms too, of course.
* `abi smiles ... called for the cavalry shadoe?
<daria> sorry again honest
<shadoe> i did indeed abi
<ThatGrrl> What calvary?
<abitbent> is it a bad thing to introduce someone to the lifestyle who only like d/s for fun and play.. and not for a relationship?
<daria> i dont want the whips so9 much as i want to serve be submissive
<shadoe> daria.. until you "try".. you can't say for sure
<daria> i have
<shadoe> in real?
<daria> with that old relationship for a week in real time
<ThatGrrl> I think making it a lifestyle is just another aspect of the same thing. Just because it's something one couple does on Sundays and another couple does nightly, doesnt make it any less BDSM.
<`abi> I wouldn't say so abitbent ... but the argument is that it 'dilutes' the lifestyle
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<daria> i can say with all certainty i need that
<shadoe> okay.. so daria.. in real.. you may have the whip for a week.. but you will have D/s for a long time.. it's so different
<daria> no whip
<shadoe> no whip
<daria> i served him
<daria> i did everything as told
<daria> i loved it
<shadoe> it's not the same
<shadoe> no whip
<abitbent> well abi.. it'd be nice to keep it as pure as we could.. lol... but i wonder if we can really
<`abi> that somehow if it's too easy, then it loses some of it's intensity, some of what makes it edgy and dark and worth the effort
<shadoe> no chains
<shadoe> no cane
<shadoe> and you will still serve
<daria> huh heh?
<ThatGrrl> I think abi had a really good point about it being too easy for people to get involved and not really know what they are involved with. But, I dont think BDSM is some exclusive club. It's just something for people to enjoy. Not necessarily a lifestyle.'
<`abi> I don't think we can really abitbent .. but it does raise the question of how much effort should reasonably be put into making it easy for people to get involved
<shadoe> i promise
<daria> may i pm shadoe
<shadoe> of course
<abitbent> i think there is a difference ThatGrrl.. between people who want it and people who need it... some of us have an inherent need... almost a sexual orientation i'd say
<ThatGrrl> I think some people take it too seriously and make it too much a focus in their lives. There is more to life. I'd never do it as a lifestyle 24/7. I wouldnt want to be locked into a role.
<abitbent> that's you ThatGrrl
<abitbent> with respect of course
<ThatGrrl> I know.
<ThatGrrl> But, I'm always right. lol
<abitbent> lol
<abitbent> insert Yes Ma'am here
<Seville{s}> no one wants to be locked into a role
<ThatGrrl> lol
<`abi> but for some people it isn't a 'role' ThatGrrl ... and the argument is that many people don't take it seriously enough
<Seville{s}> but if all you are interested in playing with a bit of slap and tickle it's not that much of a role in the first place
<ThatGrrl> There is a balance, it shouldnt become some snooty club type of thing. If it's not fun what's the point? If you can't enjoy it why would you want to do it.
<Seville{s}> snooty clubs are not necessarilly devoid of fun
<Seville{s}> smiling
<abitbent> well.. being hardwired doesn't necessarily = snooty.. lol
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informally. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<ThatGrrl> Seville, you are judging style then. Someone might like softer elements and still take it seriously.