August 3, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Finding a Safe, Sane and Willing BDSM Partner". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<jen{SE}> ahh safety and sanity is all relevant to the people *lol*, my version of safe and sane may not match others
<jen{SE}> just a little KO, *smiles*, SE's mother travelled with us as far as Germany so we did not want to take a chance of packing the toys
<tin-man> ton of vanila folks would say being on this channel removes you from the sane catagorie
<jen{SE}> Who was you company KO from Australia or Scotland?
<jen{SE}> exactly tin-man
<ShardAngeli> to me, saftey and sanity is all about trust and understanding...
* jen{SE} considers herself very lucky to have had and have great partners
<Kilted_One> had my niece from Scotland and her family of three more....very Domme...nick is KickArseKirsty
<tin-man> I am still looking
<jen{SE}> *lol*,, would except no less from a niece of Your's KO
<Kilted_One> she is very like me it has been said
* ShardAngeli considers herself lucky to have such wonderful friends and play partners.
<Kilted_One> but she is blessed with a body type from the other side of the family.....slim
<Kilted_One> K, so who picked the subject for the dicussion??
<tin-man> prefferably someone who KNOWS what they are doing...two newbies is a recipe for disaster
<ShardAngeli> true, but that's where the trust comes in.
<Kilted_One> why is that tin-man?? it is all about learning and there is ways to do that safely
<jen{SE}> it is hard tin-man, and i remember what i was heard at an MS seminar, a unattached slave is a desperate slave, not sure i agree with the comment but pose the question does being unattached for a while make you less selective
<ShardAngeli> i'm not really going to trust someone who's not had any instruction.
<tin-man> not a big crowd weekend maybe?
<ShardAngeli> i guess
<tin-man> well I agree with that comment actually about being less selective when unattached
<Kilted_One> remembers being a newbie (got a good memory laughs) and learning with a new person as we survived without any problems.....there are lots of places to get good info on most subject these days
<redfox> jen, being unattached, and anyone knowing it makes you more of a target
<redfox> not always for the right type of partner
<tin-man> people can get desperate about almost anything
<ShardAngeli> *nods*
<jen{SE}> agrees with redfox, i used to have a real issue with the fresh meat syndrome, or the lets make the sub do tricks one.... *growls*
<Kilted_One> ohh do that again jen{SE} <eg>
<jen{SE}> *winks*
<Kilted_One> forgot about that lil growl of yours
<tin-man> not to mention the fact that most of you ave the experienc to know how to tell a good Dom/Sub from a bad one...the newbie dosent have the experience to base a decision on
<ShardAngeli> Honestly, I don't know if I'd actually look for a BDSM relationship if I was unattached... I mean, I'd want to approach it like a 'normal' relationship first.. make sure we work on that level before anything else.
<redfox> well, part of the problem too is 'ensuring safety', to me a person who plays alot isn't safe overall
<`abi> unless of course a BDSM relationship is "normal" Shard
<jen{SE}> *smiles*, not experience, it is more about listening to others and asking questions, the community does love to gossip, so if ya wanna know about a Dom, just start asking *grins*
<Kilted_One> why is that redfox??
<ShardAngeli> i suppose *shrugs* you know what i mean.
<ShardAngeli> and i'm just speaking for myself.
<Kilted_One> gossip???? us??? never!!!!
<jen{SE}> our lips are sealed
<`abi> no, actually, I don't ... if BDSM is an important part of who you are, then it is an important part of a normal relationship
<Kilted_One> with duct tape??
<ShardAngeli> true, sorry
<tin-man> I understand the point about starting with a NORMAL relationship but it has to be with someone in the scene...I mean I done the vanila thing ok...thats why I am here
<jen{SE}> i don't feel you can separate a relationship into pieces and parts, it is a whole relationship
<jen{SE}> ooohhh i do love duct tape,,, NOT
<tin-man> good poin jen
<ShardAngeli> yes. i suppose.
<jen{SE}> you have to like each other on all levels and meet each others needs at all levels
<Kilted_One> nods with jen{SE}....I would say that before you get in to deep that you have felt each other out and only after you have a good understanding of each other do you take the next steps and make it more
<ShardAngeli> even with casual play partners, you should develop a friendship first though
<jen{SE}> felt each other up!!! oopps sorry eyes going
<redfox> what about those who date and jump into play - quickly
<ShardAngeli> *shrugs*
* jen{SE} done that have the t=shirt to prove it and have no lasting side effects
<tin-man> lol
<Kilted_One> what about them redfox??? I have seen that happen and both enjoyed it, I have seen it where both got little from it
<`abi> it depends on how they do it redfox ... plenty of people practice 'recreational' BDSM quite happily
<redfox> so long though, you know the 'player'
<`abi> it's not a problem if that's what you're looking for ... it does require some caution to do it safely, but it isn't intrinsically evil
<Kilted_One> sort of like and "itch" getting a "scratch"
<jen{SE}> it all depends on how you handle it emotionally, it was never for me, felt like a notch on a cane,,, pun intended, casual play lost interest for me very quick...
<redfox> imho, i have seen many wait in 'r/l dating' but jump quicker when it is bdsm related
<Kilted_One> sex is a strong motivatior though redfox is it not??
<jen{SE}> expect the ratio is pretty even, how many people go home after a party or bar with someone,,, it happens plenty in the nilla world as well
<redfox> sure,
<ShardAngeli> hi.
<jen{SE}> okay, how did those who have a partner find their partner??
<`abi> by accident
<ShardAngeli> my partners tend to fall into my lap.
<jen{SE}> i was introduced or depending on the mood i'm in "setup" with my partner by friends
<tin-man> You have to be very lucky to start a vanila relationship and then poof turn it into bdsm doesnt usually happen....therefore any relatioship started in the scene is always going to affected to some extent
<Kilted_One> I have had parties where singles look at each other and dont go any further and then kick themselves later.....and others where you have to hose them down and they leave the party and never get it on...takes all kinds
<jen{SE}> by accident abi?
<ShardAngeli> my first partner i met randomly online, the second one was visiting a local friend of mine, and the third, i was at a party in the area of.
<Kilted_One> met mine at a munch.....3 years before we got it together
<tin-man> but you had other partners during the 3 years before you got together right?
<jen{SE}> yes and i also remember her being a wonderful dancer at a party You gave also before You were together
<Kilted_One> nods yes I had one
<Kilted_One> well maybe 1 and a weee bit of another <winks>
<`abi> lol
<jen{SE}> ooooh, the pain, i've been reduced to a wee bit of another *lol*
<Kilted_One> that is after she drove to KW from Startford to get to Brantford
<Kilted_One> laughs and laughs
<tin-man> It seems that partners change much more rapidly as well...or so i have been told
<Kilted_One> sweet memories they all are and carried with me everywhere
<jen{SE}> :-))
<tin-man> but i guess that is another topic lol
<jen{SE}> tin-man, yes they seem to but part of that i think is because of what we alluded to before, not looking at the whole person/relationshi
<jen{SE}> right now i can see three people who have been with their partners for over 2 years and i think even longer
<tin-man> you may have a good point there
<Kilted_One> or that it burns very bright and comsumes the lust and after that has burned up there is a "lust" to continue at the same level of brightness and so ppl move on
<jen{SE}> the grass is greener syndrome,,,,, geeeshhhhhhhhkkkkkk
<krista-F> why is it jen though consider two years in a D/s relationship to be a huge success while a vanilla relationship of the same length would be viewed as more of a failure if it lasted two years?
<tin-man> but along the theme of a tonights topic how does a newbie sort out the good and the bad partners there is more going on than the usual relationship
<Kilted_One> was in a few nillas that lasted a lot less that a few months
<tin-man> what do people see as indicators
<jen{SE}> shortage of good partners makes the competition for the good ones high and some don't respect existing relationships
<jen{SE}> well consider i have only been in the lifestyle 4 years, only divorced for 3 and have been with my partner for most of those three years, i do tend to consider it a success....
<jen{SE}> *lol*
<ShardAngeli> indeed
<jen{SE}> i was married for 22 years, i'll get back to you in another 22 and let you know if i'm still with SE... *grins*
<tin-man> ok here is a question for those of you who experienced what they feel was bad situation ...hindsight is 20/20 right what do you think maybe you should have seen coming from a bad bdsm partner?
<tin-man> but simply didnt at the time
<jen{SE}> i can't say i've had a bad one, but i think i forgot about expecting respect... i did not feel it with some of the first people i played with, hence why i said casual play not for me
<`abi> I'm not sure you can ever 'see it coming'
<`abi> if you did, you wouldn't have been there
<tin-man> I agree
<jen{SE}> *lol* agrees with abi
<`abi> I think that needs just sometimes change or aren't what we expect
<jen{SE}> wb KO
<tin-man> what i am getting at is what sort of things have discovered that tip you the other person isnt safe or is abusive etc...
<tin-man> or is that just a stupid question
<`abi> there are no stupid questions ... only stupid answers ;)
<tin-man> hehe
<jen{SE}> or worse, not asking a question
<jen{SE}> that needs an answer
<`abi> I think tipoffs for me ... although not 100% reliable ... would be someone who was unwilling to meet in public
<`abi> who doesn't know anyone in the community and/or isn't willing to meet them
<Kilted_One> there are several good pratices that one should follow to avoid what you are suggesting though, tin-man
<tin-man> ok that sounds like a keeper
<jen{SE}> nods, nods
<tin-man> all ears KO
<Kilted_One> not really the topic of this discussion and there is logs of safe meeting practices on the wp that you can view if you are interested tin-man
<`abi> someone who thinks they have nothing to learn, or who tries to cut you off from contact with others
<`abi> someone who says they have 'no limits' or expects 'no limits'
<tin-man> I would say it it an intrical part of the topic
<tin-man> thanks abi
<`abi> and personally, I have issues with people who don't like pets ... but that's maybe not universal ;)
<jen{SE}> :-)
<Kilted_One> K, meeting in a safe neutral venue, one that is not "private", having a safe call set up, not meeting alone, not going to a hotel of their name a few
<jen{SE}> yep , if you don't like animals.. hmmmmmm
<tin-man> lol
<tin-man> I like critters
<`abi> actually, I think you can learn alot about a Dom by watching him with dogs
<krista-F> i think that goes for all people abi....
<ShardAngeli> dogs good
<krista-F> havig three dogs...i know something of this
<`abi> lol...that's true krista...I'm sure it's very apparent that I'm submissive when people see with me my dogs
<redfox> lol
<`abi> 'get down ... please'
<krista-F> lol
<redfox> hubby told me i was submissive to my kids,
<krista-F> for momma??
<Kilted_One> and rhiannon when she cant get damion to do diddly and it is all in the voice
<`abi> what voice ... I've seen you send Damian out of the kitchen by looking at him KO!
<Kilted_One> lol well there is that too
<Kilted_One> the power of a look and expectation should not be forgotten
* jen{SE} hates the look, worse than getting yelled at is the look....
<tin-man> Someone suggested talking to others in the community about person there a particular ettiquete involved..sorry about my spelling
<`abi> lol...yes....starting the conversation with ... "So, I hear MasterX is a crazy person" isn't good
<redfox> observation might be better
<jen{SE}> *lol*
<redfox> rather than opinion, as it coul dbe skewed
<tin-man> in a bar or at a munch people may behave differently han in private
<jen{SE}> and it also depends on the people, i have heard some say some Dom's play to hard, *lol*, well some bottoms "like" to play hard.. it's relative
<`abi> I think that "I understand that you know Master X" is a better approach ... and if they don't actually know him, then they aren't entitled to an opinion that you should listen to
<Kilted_One> the ones that are loved are talked about less that the ones that are not be aware...
<jen{SE}> observation works really well too, watch how The Dom/me treats others, other Dominants and submissives as well
<tin-man> But this is a common practice? asking others?
* DarkAngel{rt} isnt a fan of gosip ,,, so when researching a "Dom/me" ,,,, or a sub for that matter ,, I think you should seek out multiple opinions
<jen{SE}> i'm not sure it is common practice, i know i did, ask questions that is about my partners but i asked people i knew and respected
<tin-man> I agree with that DA just common sense
<DarkAngel{rt}> if a person happens to only ask anouther - whom I dislike and thus NEVER shared my toy with ,,,lol ,,, that person might get a different than normal view of me
<ShardAngeli> i'm out for a bit. bye all!
<jen{SE}> i agree with DA on this one because many i did not know or did not ask were more than willing to tell me what they thought *lol*
<DarkAngel{rt}> and IMO ,, after absorbing others opinions ,,, then start to form your own oppinion ,,,, that is only fair
<DarkAngel{rt}> I have heard some good suggestions so far ,,, watching them interact/play with others for example
<tin-man> lol I dont have much problem in that reguard DA
<`abi> gee DA, I always thought you were a groper ... and that's what everyone told me too ;)
<tin-man> that assumes you have seen the play with someone
<Kilted_One> I think filtering is the best expression that I can think off.....take the info and filter it....if there is a re-occuring "theme" then be a little wary
<DarkAngel{rt}> if a person DOES still interest you ,,,, take a chance (perhaps) ,,, and play with publicly (after extensive negociation of course)
<jen{SE}> ahh but abi, i think He spread that rumor Himself
<DarkAngel{rt}> I am `abi ?
<`abi> oh..that's right jen ... I forgot... I did hear it from him
<DarkAngel{rt}> LOL ,,, I am a "hug slut"
<naughtyvickie> i ask many people for their opinions of the person and then through talking and meeting the person i form my own opinion
<Kilted_One> best way to go naughtyvickie
<jen{SE}> agrees
<tin-man> what are the other means of finding someone besides the munches and brunches?
<`abi> I honestly think that the worst thing you can hear is "never heard of him"
<tin-man> lol
<jen{SE}> there is alot to be said for good old gut feeling and chemical reaction....
<`abi> as long as the chemical isn't mace jen ;)
* Kilted_One now knows why naughtyvickie doesnt talk to me <eg>
<jen{SE}> He doesn't smell right to me.. *lol*, and i'm not talking about wether He showered or not
<DarkAngel{rt}> on-line connection sites are ok ,,, but honestly ,, I MUCH preffer Munches and events to meet someone
<`abi> although that can certainly be a good indicator!
<jen{SE}> sometimes that is the needed chemical abi *grins*
<naughtyvickie> i talk to You KO
* Kilted_One laughs
* DarkAngel{rt} gropes `abi
<Kilted_One> is only joking naughtyvickie....
* naughtyvickie winks at KO
* `abi hugs DA ... carefully avoiding full-shoulder contact
<DarkAngel{rt}> what do you do if someone doesnt take a polite no ? .... I have heard of such from a few friends of late
<Kilted_One> ohh go for it abigaille he has a bad shoulder make it worse he like pain
<DarkAngel{rt}> IMO ,,, I think at that time ,,, VOLUME is important
* jen{SE} apologizes for leaving and ducks out
* DarkAngel{rt} sends a hungry mongoose up under KO's skirt
<Kilted_One> it will still be hungry DA lol
<DarkAngel{rt}> lol
<`abi> ah...just shake your leg harder DA...they'll fall off eventually ;)
* DarkAngel{rt} re-sets ,,, and sends a Hungry FEMALE mongoose up under KO's skirt
<DarkAngel{rt}> lol
<DarkAngel{rt}> shaking your leg will make people who dont take a polite "no" go away `abi ?
<Kilted_One> my experience is that sometimes it takes another party to "make ppl aware that their intentions are an issue"
<DarkAngel{rt}> I agree KO
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<`abi> well, I'm not sure DA ... I haven't been shaken off yet ;)
<naughtyvickie> if they don't take no for an answer i walk away from them
<DarkAngel{rt}> thus I suggest the "VOLUME" ,,, I have been approached discreetly a few times and asked to intervine
<tin-man> oops sorry didnt mean to monopize the discussion for most of the hour
* `abi pictures DA gently removing the offending party .. 'go hump something else dear'
<Kilted_One> dont think you did tin-man so dont worry
<DarkAngel{rt}> either use "VOLUME" ,, or get anouther (as KO mentions) to point out the error
<Kilted_One> dear!!! is the exact term of endearment he would use too
<DarkAngel{rt}> lol
<tin-man> seems I am only one here that is actually looking for a partner...kind of ironic considering the topic
<Kilted_One> in all of the parties that I have attended (not that many really) I have not seen or heard of anyone that has not been approached and has not backed of and realized they are a problem "after" they have had a quite word given to them
<DarkAngel{rt}> not really tin-man ,,, actually many of us also deal with such issues from the side ,,,, as people who organize events , or volunteer at events ,,, we also have to assist and "referee" when such connections go bad, or dont work,, or one party doesnt respect the pre-discussed limits
<`abi> cassie
* _cassie smiles
<`abi> at the very least, we get asked for references
<Kilted_One> hiya cassie
<krista-F> :) cassie
<tin-man> fashionably late cassie
<_cassie> The one topic I can actually have an opinion on, and I miss the discussion.
<tin-man> lets here it
<Kilted_One> you have 3 mins left cassie
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
* _cassie ignores modbot and says hi to everyone