July 25 1999 EhBC Online Discussion

<trufriend> good evening folks!

<Justice^> hi tru

<lil^bear^> hey trufriend!!!!!!

<katiias> g'evenin tru

<swann{ME}> hi hi tru *hugs*

<`forbidden> hi trufriend

<Wolfe^en> anyone know what the topic is tonight?

<^llara^> hello trufriend

<meow`> bbl

<trufriend> so is everybody ready to talk about D/s and the "real" life?

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> I believe tru is moderating tonight

<Justice^> hi frstdmale

* trufriend smiles

<Wolfe^en> that was last week

<frstdmale> hi Justice

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> no it wasnt

* `forbidden tapes her mouth but turns up her hearing aides

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> last week was d/s fantasy vers reality

<trufriend> i checked with Bernie and He cleared tonight's topic for me

<Wolfe^en> fanatasy vs reality

<Wolfe^en> ds & the real life?

<trufriend> what we want to talk about tonight is more of whether we can mix D/s with our day to day lives......in the "real" world...

<katiias> is this diff from .. prev discussion?...

<trufriend> yes kat

<katiias> k

<trufriend> we're not talking dreams and fantasies...

<MistressAstra> sure take your subbie for a walk shopping down Queen st. :)

<katiias> oh-kayyyyyyyyyy

<MistressAstra> collar and leash i do it often in public

<trufriend> one thing i will ask before we get into the discussion is that everyone would please try to refrain from the usual greetings when people come and go in the room...

<katiias> we didnt see ya..fri...we were on queen st....twice... *s*

* lil^bear^ wiggles her toes

<katiias> is toe wigglin permitted? *s*

<lil^bear^> oops sorry

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> nope

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> :)

<trufriend> quietly kat...*S*

<lil^bear^> uh oh

<katiias> ROFL

<lil^bear^> houston we have a problem

* katiias hands the nipple press to lil...fer her toes.... works same hon...

* lil^bear^ will just ummm sit on her feet

<trufriend> so, does anybody have any questions, suggestions or concerns about integrating D/s into their day to day lives....mixing with the "outside" or "real" world?

<katiias> why the need to 'mix', tru?

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> good question...although we feel the need to mix it...it is part of us.

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> part of our everyday.

<trufriend> some concerns i ahve heard kat, is that too many have difficulty accepting certain behaviours from others.....so how do people handle it? o they/you do anything different then what has been labeled as normal?

* katiias shrugs....

<katiias> its part of 'our' everyday...but... betwixt us in priv..at home....

<trufriend> ok, what about children or family members that reside in the same home.....or roommates even?

<^llara^> i think as the nuances and the subtlies of the relationship its easier to integrate somethings into the "real" world...the actual interaction of the Master/slave outside of obviouls D/s activities

<Dead^Kennedys> Hey People

* katiias lives w/Master-hubby..and 4 dogs....dogs dont mind

<lil^bear^> when i was with my last Master i never called him Master in front of the kids but i always acknowledge a request with Yes Dan

<^llara^> every relationship has a 'dance' persay..this one would develop on as well

<trufriend> sure kat, it may be 'normal' behaviour to a lot of us here, but it is still not considered 'normal' to most

<Dead^Kennedys> Great new outa Hollywood There's a New MOVIE being ffilmed om JFK jr life ..called Three Funerals and a Wedding

* lil^bear^ looks at Dead Kennedys..get a life....

<Wolfe^en> one must always consider others

<lil^bear^> yes even if we consider it normal

<trufriend> so how do we show things, behaviour, etc. so as not to raise too many questions

<lil^bear^> we have to be considerate of others

<^llara^> but there are many naunces that go on..that many would not pick up.....slight behaviour expectations from the Master..that the others would not think twice of

<lil^bear^> hmmm

<^llara^> for example...i was going over a negotion on friday night....

-Mltdwn^jazmaia- yes we do

<^llara^> this is just a really simple one...

<^llara^> He expects his cig to be lit for him

-Mltdwn^jazmaia- if not...email us and well send it to you...

<trufriend> that's what i want to hear ^llara^, exactly what people do...

-Mltdwn^jazmaia- marnt@sprint.ca

<^llara^> not overt D/s activities no...

<^llara^> but subtle nuances that ANY couple develops...

<^llara^> could be brought public

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> My slave almost exclusively referrs to Me as Sir....in front of all our family and friends....it is a sign of respect in many lifestyles

<^llara^> would vary on the couple

<^llara^> and many would not bat an eye at that

* katiias likes that idea, M^j... *s*

<Wolfe^en> good night

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> there is always that dynamic in our lives...most would not pick up on it unless they were involved in this lifestyle

<^llara^> or the sub/slave might have to walk..i don't know to the right or left...or behind...whatever

<^llara^> exactly i don't think its that complicated an issue

<swann{ME}> i don't sit and eat with Master unless told to

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> exactly llara....

<^llara^> children are a concern all their own...

<swann{ME}> but my mother and father ...who are not in the lifestyle at all

<swann{ME}> did the same

<swann{ME}> so it passes

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> My slave walks behind Me and to the right...and opens all doors for Me...

<^llara^> evening LrdThomas:)

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> including car doors

<^llara^> out in public as well?

<lil^bear^> evening LordThomas..:)

<^llara^> many would see that and not think any of it...nor notice it

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> Yes

<^llara^> but it incorporates your life...into the outside world

<^llara^> seems pretty easy to me

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> she does not eat until I have My first bite...

<trufriend> i don't consider it a complicated topic either, i'm more interested in how we handle situations that may come up

<^llara^> situations such as?

<swann{ME}> only one time i was uncomfortable in public

<swann{ME}> Master wanted a drink and told me to go to the machines to get one for him

<Hardest``> 'lo folks

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> what type of situations?

<swann{ME}> i was wearing my collar and leash ..

<swann{ME}> and he wanted me to leave them on to go..

<swann{ME}> i walked through the hotel ...but stopped in the bathroom to tuck them in

<swann{ME}> pulled them out at the door

<trufriend> scenerio......you and your Dom/me are eating out at a nice restaurant, you are proudly wearing your collar...a stranger approaches you, not your Dom/me and asks about the collar.....how do you handle the situation?

<swann{ME}> i wait for Master to respond

<Hardest``> tell'em to f off and mind thier own bizness

<trufriend> so swann, if you are comfortable about your D/s life, why hide the collar and leash?

<LrdThomas> i offer them one too, if the said busybody has good tits. <wink>

<swann{ME}> i think it was because of the setting ..

<swann{ME}> it's my lifestyle

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> We have the collar on asked all the time...

<swann{ME}> i felt it would be uncomfortable for others around us..

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> one

<swann{ME}> that is not consensual

<swann{ME}> in my opinion .

<trufriend> how about anybody else? those are two good examples of situations....how wouls anybody else handle it?

<swann{ME}> the collar i love wearing

<katiias> its 'our ' chosen lifestyle..but it does not have to be 'in their face' in public... to make others uncomfortable... *jmho*

<swann{ME}> exactly katiias

* Wolfe^en agrees with kat

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> we just say it's jewlery....a gift froom Me.

<MistressAstra> Toronto is much more open than many small towns , in To you have more freedom

<trufriend> that's what i'm trying to hear form people kat! finally

<katiias> lovely answer, M^j... *s*

<abigaille> once had a neighbour ask if there was a leash that went with the collar...the response was....yes....and that pretty much ended the conversation

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> Her chosen body adornment....one who asked over stepped the need ot know rule.

<Wolfe^en> the jewlelry thing is kinda hard to take...obviously if so many notice it

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> LOL abi

<trufriend> does that neighbour still talk to you abigaille?

* trufriend smiles

<abigaille> yes tru

<^llara^> and then...you gotta wonder about ppl who figure they have the right to ask a total stranger something that in reality is none of their business

<swann{ME}> i worked with somebody who was wearing a collar...

<swann{ME}> an obvious one ...

<abigaille> but he's more careful about questions that he doesn't really want the answer to

<swann{ME}> i asked about it ...

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> you wouldnt ask about a jewish persons 'cap' or an amish persons attire...

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> thats rude.

<swann{ME}> hoping we could open up dialogue ..

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> we handle ppl asking the same way...

<swann{ME}> told her it was beautiful and interesting

<^llara^> exactly Mltdwn^jazmaiaq

<swann{ME}> she was uncomfortable and i let it drop

<trufriend> like me, i wore my catsuit to a Halloween party downtown a couple years ago....lots of interesting reactions to it! lol when i was asked by a few where my whip was, i responded with "i don't give the whip, i get it." shut 'em all up quick

<Wolfe^en> my only issue with it is children

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> and with goth so poppular it can be written off to that.

<katiias> lol@tru

<trufriend> they all thought i was so straightlaced befoer! lol

<lil^bear^> agreed Sir Wolfen

<abigaille> honesty can be shockingly effective

* katiias always thot u were str8laced, tru... *g*

<wickdplaym8{SL}> At the request of an op, if I may have a moment to introduce myself....wickd, Florida native - adopted pal of LrdThomas :-) r/tfem slave

<trufriend> yeah kat.....thru & thru!

<trufriend> ROTF

* katiias grins....*knew it knew it knew it*

<Wolfe^en> what sort of behaviour is ok with others present and what is not?

<katiias> welcum wickdplaym8 *s*

<Wolfe^en> and does that differ depending if it is strangers (on the street) or family and friends?

<^llara^> i think so...a D/s circle of friends....things are acceptable

<^llara^> out in public.....totally diff..children etc

<trufriend> for me, mixing D/s and real life didn't work a couple years ago for me....i lost physical custody of my son because of it.....and i hadn't even done anything in the lifestyle yet!

<Wolfe^en> agreed llara

* wickdplaym8{SL} slightly changes my present with 'nillas around....and speaks quietly and discreetly to answer Sir in an appropriate manner...its habit now...but I'm Southern, people don't think a Southern accent saying Sir is that strange

<^llara^> i don't want to see nilla ppl carrying on public...beyond normal affection stuff

<^llara^> so i would say the same goes here

<trufriend> according to the Judge, i was being selfish, choosing my deviant lifestyle over my obligations to my family!

<^llara^> common sense has to rule whether you are nilla or not

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> well axactly llara....we dont spank in front of the kids...or other ppl... LOL

* lil^bear^ wiggles her toes

<^llara^> i really don't think...we have to treat this lifestyle that much different

<trufriend> so how is it different ^llara^? that's what i want to hear tonight? how is it different and why does it have to be?

<^llara^> i don't think it has to be

<^llara^> i think we make such a huge issue

<katiias> mm... tru... that was unfortunate.... very... hard to stand up to Judges and courts...

<^llara^> about making it different

<^llara^> and it doesn't have to be

<wickdplaym8{SL}> I don't either ^llara^, I think a few minor changes is all thats needed for the most part

<^llara^> what i do behind closed doors is no ones business but who *i* decide to share with

<^llara^> common sense needs to rule in public

<Wolfe^en> doesn't "servitude" teach children a very negative view on relationships though? if they see it tht is

<^llara^> for one thing...a Dom is gonna charged in public for any kind of physical action on another person

<^llara^> so that is just pure foolishness to go there

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> I think all of us in the lifestyle make things harder on ourselves....forget how others see it....for example.....

<Wolfe^en> the "subtle" play between D/s partners

<katiias> not so much servitude...as... respect.... for one's chosen.. partner...

<wickdplaym8{SL}> My children have learned mommy is an extremely cherished part of Daddy's life. My daughter will never end up with a man that doesn't value her....that's a very important positive benefit of this lifestyle

<^llara^> yep...i agree Mltdwn^jazmaiaq

<swann{ME}> why would it teach a negative view of relationships if it is done with love and caring?

<Wolfe^en> yes, i agree many forget how others see it

<^llara^> as for the servitude question

<trufriend> the scenerio i described a few minutes ago happened not that long ago....except i was the one to approach a Dom and His sub in the restaurant

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> My son wanted and picked out a set of hand cuffs as a prize...and they could be and were looked at as negative by some...but they are still vanilla childrens toys to him.

<Wolfe^en> but if the "serving" is a one way street...children don't know it is a consentual thing...they would learn the same crap that was learned in the 40's

<trufriend> they hid nothing about their D/s life together...she served Him fully in the restaurant....and proudly i might add...

<^llara^> but in reality is it...cause you are blending real time with D/s time

<trufriend> it was wonderful to watch in a public "vanilla" setting

<katiias> submissive shows respect to the Dominant.... Dominant shows loving concern/respect for submissive as well... its a 2-way street...

<^llara^> geeze is hard not to say hello when someone enters

<lil^bear^> you know i think as adults what we do in and out of our home is own own busines..but i do agree with Wolfen the game changes when children are invilved..

<swann{ME}> it may always be there tru....only more subtle...

<^llara^> exactly

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> well stated kat

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> !!

<^llara^> but ya know

<wickdplaym8{SL}> For the children to get a negative view of "servitude" then I would have to convey a negative vibe...the fact is my submission is beautiful and honorable, and as such, they feel that energy between Sir and I

<^llara^> servitude happens in nilla..and is so much more negative

<^llara^> happens alllllllllll the time

<swann{ME}> sometimes more overt can endanger professional positions

<^llara^> with resent and anger

<^llara^> i think that is the key diff here

<katiias> if the submissive is not respected and loved totally by the Dominant...its a 1-way street... and not likely to last... *jmho*

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> exactly wick and llarar

<lyxanna> sorry i am getting into this late,

<Wolfe^en> all kids see is who's lighting the cigaretes, who's making dinner...who runs the bath

<lyxanna> hold it

<katiias> um..ayup swann.... *g*... my case exactly....

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> we both make dinner...claen the house...

<swann{ME}> Master's and mine too

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> etc

<Wolfe^en> the Dom may show love in other ways...but anyone who thinks that kids don't learn from that and emulate it are nuts

<Wolfe^en> IMO

<^llara^> and who does that anyways..still as we are entering the millenium...

<trufriend> but that is true in a vanilla relationship too kat......one way streets just don't work in ANY relationship

<lyxanna> let me get this straight, you are saying it is ok to show submission infront of children?

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> she is not a maid... (all the time *G*)

<wickdplaym8{SL}> They see who held my hand when I screamed through a tattoo...they see who calms me when asthma strikes...they see who quizzes me when I'm studying for finals.

<swann{ME}> gawd my mother did all that and she is not sub ..

<wickdplaym8{SL}> Dominance does not mean he does not contribute

<^llara^> not the acts of submssion no...not the kneeling that kind of thing

<lil^bear^> no its not ok to show it in front of kids..not in my opinion

<swann{ME}> she did it cause she loves my father and he was exhausted from work ..

<katiias> yes, tru... it is.... i think/expect that D/s relationships show more true respect and love betwixt partners than many nilla relationships...

<^llara^> but again the naunces and the dance....yes

<trufriend> to a degree lyx and if it is an open topic of discussion and understanding......it can work

<lyxanna> infront of children?

<^llara^> common sense again

<^llara^> has to rule

<lyxanna> and when did they consent

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> yes they do kat

<trufriend> it's the trust and honesty factor kat.....most important!

<lyxanna> but when did the kids, family friends etc, consent

<lyxanna> this whole lifestyle is about ssc

<katiias> trust in D/s is... paramount..to it working...

<swann{ME}> i have a question...

<lyxanna> when did those you are imputing your beliefs on consent

* katiias listens to swann

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> do the children consent to watching Md do the dishes....more than they consent to watching jaz do them.....we both do it...

<Wolfe^en> ok, how is using the term Master or Sir...showing a mutual respect...when children are presnet?

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> that is our everyday life

<Wolfe^en> present

<wickdplaym8{SL}> lyxanna...children can get WAY more damage from watching TV than from seeing some of the interaction of a Ds couple. Does Sir whip me in front of them? Not at all. Do I wear my collar, address him appropriately and maintain decorum with their presence? Yes

<lyxanna> that is differnt

<lil^bear^> no it cant work in front of kids they lern by our behaviour and our actions I dont want my daughter thinking it is normal to want to serve and kneel..i want her to feel that way if she so chosen the lifestly i dont want it inbred into her ..hence i it is then she is not making her own decision...

<swann{ME}> we as children did not have to consent to watching much of the interaction between our parents...

<^llara^> we are not talking direct D/s activities here.....that kind of thing lyxanna

<swann{ME}> it was their "dance" ..

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> what is wrong with the expression Sir??

<^llara^> but the dance

<swann{ME}> we are not talking about whipping and flogging

<^llara^> yes..

<lyxanna> yes we are

<katiias> ayup swann...and what did we all learn by it???

<swann{ME}> we are talking about showing our love in a way that is unique to us

<Wolfe^en> does the Dom call the sub Ma'am?

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> it has been used for years..

<Wolfe^en> if not that teaches the WRONG stuff!

<lyxanna> by calling a master "sir"in front of kids....that is d/s activity

<swann{ME}> so if i pick something off the floor cause Master dropped it

<wickdplaym8{SL}> My children SIR their father because it is respect

<swann{ME}> or i sit at his feet

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> no it is not....

<wickdplaym8{SL}> for me to do so is no different

<lil^bear^> you know i dont care if i kneel in front of other ppl or if i wear a collar or any of that in fronmt of adults that are not impressionable but in front of my kids.no way...

<swann{ME}> if i wait to eat until he says sit with me

<swann{ME}> that does not show a negative ..

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> I call her My Lady...

<swann{ME}> cause

<swann{ME}> you look at us

<`forbidden> hmmmmmmm is me calling a customer at work "Sir" a D/s thing to then?

<katiias> swann..those are all respect....

<trufriend> does a child consent to an abusive parent? does a parent 'consent' to a child saying they are gay? do we give our consent to a dying family member or friend before they can pass on?......that's why communication is utmost.....talk about things!

<swann{ME}> and you see love

* Wolfe^en giggles

<swann{ME}> respect

<swann{ME}> caring

<lyxanna> then why make that kind of "demand"

<katiias> yes...love too...

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> My princess...My beauty

<Hardest``> must be wrong if ur afraid to teach ur kids

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> exactly forbidden

<swann{ME}> that cannot be negative

<lyxanna> that is different trufrien

* katiias only calls customers "Sir" if they deserve it... *g*

<lyxanna> the point is that this scene is supposed to be ssc

<`forbidden> well me too katiias

<trufriend> learning to respect one another's wishes and desires lyx......it really isn't so different

<lyxanna> and sane, or consent is neither being practiced by having a submissive do ANY d/s activity

<`forbidden> it actually helps keep me on track with those i respect in this lifestyle

<katiias> and..u shud see the ones who DONT git called Sir.... pay attention when i give respect to those who deserve it

<Finn^m^> egads!!!...look at all the ppls!!

<lyxanna> it is funny

<`forbidden> but i in no way consider calling a customer at work "Sir" or "Ma am" a D/s thing at all

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> saying Sir is not a d/s activity as such....it is a mutual act of respect.

<trufriend> did my parent's ask for my consent beofre they assumed we were to know we were loved by them? NO.....assumptions were made

<lyxanna> we all look at the world and we want them to not imprint their ideals on us

<wickdplaym8{SL}> To say I am non-consensually involving my children, because I respect Sir in front on them is not fair. I assure you the children think they are non-consensually involved in their bedtime, because I tell them what it is. Exposing them to a positive relationship is not harming them

<lyxanna> but then we turn around and do the exact same to those that will be the world later

<Wolfe^en> it is used when addressing a stranger because you don't know their name

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> Exactly wick @!!!

<lyxanna> true wick

<Wolfe^en> in the home it is archaic

<swann{ME}> i have never called Master by his first name

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> not tru

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> not tru W/e

<swann{ME}> 3 years and never once

<swann{ME}> *laughing* one time i was angry and called him Mr. Eagle

<swann{ME}> but i don't count that

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> :)\

<lyxanna> but clouding their impression of the "relationship" by showing d/s is in a way, altering their future

<LT-email> hey, if that works for you wickd, go for it. The kids are safe, well brought up, and learning to challenge the world from a responsible pov, then go for it. Just not my way. :)

<wickdplaym8{SL}> Like we "cloud their impressions" by teaching a certain religion? Or a certain political belief?

<trufriend> i know my son will have a much better understanding about different lifestyles, opinions, etc. then i ever did when i was younger

<wickdplaym8{SL}> We ARE their impressions...that is our job

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> if I was not in the lifestyle I would still enjoy My wife calling Me sir!

<wickdplaym8{SL}> To teach them a healthy way, and support them if they choose differently

<lyxanna> and on top of that Mltdwn, there is another party that needs to consent in your world

* Wolfe^en does not doubt that

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> what does that mean lyx

<Wolfe^en> doesn't make it right

<lyxanna> and that hasn't even been adressed

<trufriend> my parents 'forced' my brother and i to attend church when we were kids....not once telling us why or offering a choice........

<wickdplaym8{SL}> trufriend... I understand that...my children are extremely tolerant of different lifestyles...and do not use racial/sexual slurs like many youngsters heading into the teens

<lyxanna> if my son's father was involved in his life, i have a responsability to take into consideration HIS beliefs and wishes

<Wolfe^en> so learn from that tru

<Wolfe^en> as you have

<Wolfe^en> let them decide for themselves, when they are ready to

<swann{ME}> my kids grew up in a home devoid of love

<swann{ME}> devoid of respect..

<swann{ME}> saw abuse

<lyxanna> fine swann

<swann{ME}> that was not consensual ..

<lyxanna> true swann

<swann{ME}> seeing me respect and show love is not a negative

<trufriend> i am not forcing anything on my son, i am merely offering him all the information he is looking for and letting him decide what he likes or dislikes......but what i have "forced" on him is a need to at least give everything in life at least one chance..."try it once, if you don't like it then that's alright"

<swann{ME}> if i do it like the women in the 40's ..

<lyxanna> that may also be true

<swann{ME}> then there is nothing wrong with that ..

<swann{ME}> if it's good for us ..

<swann{ME}> what they see is a happy ,

<swann{ME}> loved,

<swann{ME}> and cared for woman

<swann{ME}> a big change from what they grew up with

<lyxanna> but if he (the ex) was to ask you to not do any d/s activity (including calling ME sir infront of the kids) you have to respect that and understand that he (the ex) is a non-consentual participant

<swann{ME}> and no i won't scene with them present ..and my daughter is in the lifestyle

<Wolfe^en> how old are your children?

<lyxanna> Mlt

<swann{ME}> now they are adults ..

<lyxanna> i answered your question...any comments?

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> no you just about said it all lyx... :)

<trufriend> my son will not watch me get the crop, he will not watch me be cuffed or blindfolded.....but he will know about D/s and some of the things people might do

<lyxanna> so you agreee?

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> lyx...move on pls.

<lil^bear^> at what age do you tell them?

<lyxanna> no

<lil^bear^> and how much?

<lyxanna> you asked what i ment

<^llara^> the simple fact is no matter what home environment your children are brought up..they are going to see and hear things...they have not choice over and don't consent to..the key is.....like ANY responsible parent /adult you are not going to expose children to emotionally damaging things intentionally....meaning sex...D/s activities..but that still does not rule out the dance that occurs between any couple be ti D/s or vanilla...

<lyxanna> do you understand my point?

<swann{ME}> i have always believed that you tell them what they ask

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> and you explained...thankyou...

<lyxanna> that there are more than you and your sub that are involved?

<swann{ME}> they ask when they are ready to hear .

<swann{ME}> and only answer what they ask .....

<swann{ME}> not more

<wickdplaym8{SL}> lyxanna..I guess you wouldn'y find the humor then in our son galloping through the house with a butt plug on his forehead shouting "Mommy Mommy I'm a unicorn"

<katiias> roflmao

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> LOL

<^llara^> rofl wickdplaym8{SL}

<^llara^> hehehehe

<^llara^> lololol

* jalyn falls off her chair

<wickdplaym8{SL}> It happens...I found my mother's vibrator when I was young...and tortured her with questions too

<lyxanna> that is funny

<swann{ME}> ROFLMAO!!!!!!

<trufriend> ROTF

<^llara^> hahahahahah

<lil^bear^> lol

* wickdplaym8{SL} turned 100 shades of red when it happened

<Wolfe^en> that is different

<lyxanna> my kid has chased the neighbour hood kids around with a crop

<lyxanna> but that is not the point

<Wolfe^en> you deal with it, & find a better hiding spot

* `forbidden has also found toys.... but nuthin interesting yet

<wickdplaym8{SL}> exactly Wolfe^en...a LOCKED hiding spot

* lil^bear^ keeps her toys locked key hidden

<^llara^> any comments made here are on the assumption that we ARE responsible adults and parents

* LrdThomas ponders wickd's truthfulness.... did they have electricity then wickd??? :P~

<lyxanna> the point is, that in some relationships (such as divorced or seperated parents) there is another party that needs to consent

<wickdplaym8{SL}> LrdThomas...you meanie...I am not yet so old

<wickdplaym8{SL}> :-)

<^llara^> and would never knowingly expose our children to harmful activities

<trufriend> my son emptied my travel bag out last week to use himself and out came my leather cuffs, blindfold and vibrator!!

<katiias> why would you volunteer the information that mommy likes to be hogtied in bed..any more than you'd tell them you like to have sex once a week with the lights off and the covers up around your neck???

<trufriend> all he could do was giggle and turn red in the face

* Finn^m^ looks for lilbear's keys...

<lyxanna> and that not are you not practicing ssc, but you are saying that the other party's oppinion is less than yours

<^llara^> again i think this in another issue made bigger than it needs to be

<Johncin> so true katiias

<LrdThomas> kattiias, because i'm proud of my pinching her nipples under the covers in the dark. <weg>

* lil^bear^ giggles at Sir Finn..stop that! kids are up..

* MistressAstra has no kids and no clue about children

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> yes your right llara....it is.

<swann{ME}> agreeing with llara

<^llara^> you use your head

<trufriend> what about other family members then Astra? or friends?

<^llara^> and put your children first

<^llara^> you are not likely to err too too far

<^llara^> as with any other issue

<`forbidden> well i can speak up on the friends and family issue

<abigaille> on the other hand, I'd say never do anything that you'd be ashamed to have to explain to your children someday...children at any age are not stupid...if you don't believe that what you are doing is right, then don't do it


<`forbidden> most of the people close to me with the exception of mom, dad and grandma know

<lyxanna> what a novel concept

<MistressAstra> well true, my friends all know, and my parents know im weird. people just sort of accept all the stuff i do.

<^llara^> they may see somethings diff in mom and dad...than any other family......but that happens in ANY household

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> exactly abi

<lil^bear^> my family and friends now about my lifestyle..damn even my bosss..hence the comment to someone one day visiting at the office he said "you look to normal to be one of her friends"...lol..

<wickdplaym8{SL}> Are you suggesting my children do not come first, because I appear to have a life as well?

<^llara^> ya know lyxanna...i am a single parent of three....

<lil^bear^> but my kids..dont know...

<^llara^> and finding time to do anything.....while putting my children first is a HUGE task

<lyxanna> good for you llara

<^llara^> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

<^llara^> wickdplaym8{SL} am not

<lil^bear^> yes it is llara..

<lyxanna> and i am a single parent of a dissabled child

<Finn^m^> you think they dont know lilbear...

<Wolfe^en> ens' entire family knows, except for her children of course

<lil^bear^> my kids Sir Finn?

<^llara^> i am assuming you are concerned parent that does..and does what she feels nutures her children the best way you can

<MistressAstra> great Wolf'en, honestys the best policy

<Finn^m^> yes....who knows what they know bear...kids are funny that way...

<wickdplaym8{SL}> oh ^llara^....not you....I didn't get the "all caps putting children first" comment, followed by "what a novel concept"

<swann{ME}> my parents are 80 and 83 ....they don't want to know ..

* lyxanna is still waiting for Mltdwn to answer her

<swann{ME}> when i want to discuss something with my chum...they ask what business it is of his

<Wolfe^en> i volunteered the info to my family

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> keep waiting lyx..it's dead...I thanked you already...

<swann{ME}> i say that he gives me good advice...that satisfies them

<lil^bear^> aww true but you see I am a passive person always have been and they know that its not a play thing for me is me..but they also dont know that what i live is D/s no i dont believe they do...

<lyxanna> wickd..that was not put to you

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> with the utmost respect :)

* Finn^m^ tips the passive bear over....and smiles..

* Wolfe^en is not going to bother with lyx's topic...lol

<LrdThomas> my kids ever find D/s stuff and ask what kind of relationship i have, i'll tell them a loving one, and i hope they are so lucky in their lives. :)

* lil^bear^ giggles at Sir Fin...

<swann{ME}> exactly LrdThomas..

* lyxanna is enjoying venting about a topic she believes in.....especially since she had a really tough day

<swann{ME}> like any other toy vanilla or d/ that kids find

* ^llara^ still thinks we make this wayyyyyyyyy to complicated for our own good

<katiias> tuff one w/kidlet, lyx?

<^llara^> and it doesn't have to be

<lyxanna> kinda had a 15 sec bradicardic episode last night

<Wolfe^en> it doesn't have to be llara, you are right

* lyxanna translates that into his heart stoped for 15 sec

<LrdThomas> jap rope bondage, combined with chapters 3 thru 46 of the kama sutra is complicated. :)

<trufriend> vent all you'd like to lyx......lol....it's allowed

<Finn^m^> oddly enough....my relatives brought back a 3 tailed whip thingy from Columbia..where they'd been living......had it hung up in my room for yrs as a kid...so I blame society...

<Wolfe^en> it is tru?!

<katiias> subliminal, Finn

<Wolfe^en> hehe

<Wolfe^en> lol Finn

<Wolfe^en> my bro had a bullwhip my uncle got him from mexico...he used to chase me around the house

<Finn^m^> its upstairs someplace..somehow now..Id be uncomfy displaying it...in my old age..lol

<lil^bear^> lol Wolfen

<swann{ME}> i guess maybe we tend to take ourselves too seriously and forget that the same rules apply to vanilla as to D/s relationships

<swann{ME}> and vice versa

-Mltdwn^jazmaia- lets get it back on topic...

<^llara^> nods nods nods nods

<katiias> ayup

<swann{ME}> use common sense

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> exactly swann

<swann{ME}> even though it is not always common

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> dont sweat the small stuff....

<swann{ME}> nodding

<lyxanna> what is small to one

<lyxanna> is a big thing to another

<trufriend> back on topic folks......how do we mix or integrate D/s into our 'real' day to day lives......our public lives if you will

<Wolfe^en> if it's small stuff, then why can't it be discussed?

<swann{ME}> with sensitivity

<katiias> tru...seems we... share with is necessary.... dont share what isnt...

<swann{ME}> with respect

<katiias> oops... share WHAT is necessary....

<trufriend> so what do each of you consider the necessary stuff is?

<katiias> pretty much...nothing...*s*

<swann{ME}> depends on the situation tru

<Wolfe^en> what is important for us...is what happens betwen us

<katiias> has nada to do with how i go about my work in the world... my friendships... etc...

<Johncin> most kids couldn't care less what mom and dad do in the bedroom

* wickdplaym8{SL} shares depending on the situation...unless you happen to be a really tacky stranger asking really stupid questions....then you're likely to get the whole uncensored version just for shock value

<abigaille> well....we have crop behind the filing cabinet ;)

<wickdplaym8{SL}> :-)

<trufriend> elaborate swann.....describe a situation and how you would handle it

<Wolfe^en> if it isn't right for us to behave certain ways among some...then we don't...and if we can't it in no way diminishes how we feel

<swann{ME}> i did when i described my parent's reaction to my "consulting with Master"

<trufriend> for the subs....how much are you willing to do for your Dom/me in public......for the Dom/mes here tonight....how much might You ask of Your subs publicly?

* katiias chuckles at abi...file cab..mmm.....

<swann{ME}> depends on what you mean by public ..

<swann{ME}> general population

<swann{ME}> or a d/s function

* katiias wud do anything requested... of her.. in public...*s*

<Wolfe^en> public doesn't bother me too much

<Wolfe^en> (en speaking)

<trufriend> not a controlled environment...through play parties, fet nights or the like......i mean in public....the vanilla world...the general population

<Wolfe^en> family and friends...that's according to what they know or don't and what i wish to share

<katiias> i tink..that... each D/s couple... knows the limits... in public..and priv.... goes back to 'trust'... and knowing each other.. intimately...

<wickdplaym8{SL}> katiias....I'm with you there...I know Sir isn't going to ask anything of me that would get me in trouble, or reflect badly on Us...so its really not an issue

<katiias> exactly...wickdplaym8

<Wolfe^en> my mom tells me when Master should gag me...lol!

<Wolfe^en> but that's the comfort level in that situation

<swann{ME}> agree's with wickdplaym8

<mike_marie> 38/m...35/f... from detroit <near windsor>

* wickdplaym8{SL} does occasionally ignore a waiter or waitress when they address me, until they get the message to address Him directly

<trufriend> everybody is skirting around it.......don't say "that's according to what they know or don't and what i wish to share" or "depends on the situation"

<katiias> m.....waiters...mmm....*s*

<swann{ME}> tru i am not skirting around the issue ..

<Wolfe^en> we are not crazily into servitude

<swann{ME}> there is no one answer

<katiias> tru..i think everybody has their own comfort levels.... developed with their own partner... *shrug*

<Wolfe^en> so...it's not that much of an issue

<swann{ME}> i will do what i am told

<katiias> except wear leash in public...

<Wolfe^en> what are you looking for true confessions?

* katiias chuckles @swann

* lil^bear^ wiggles her toes..looks at the clock and the other clock and the other clock..hmmm well they all say sometime past ten...

<swann{ME}> but i also can feel comfortable in knowing that Master and i must both keep our d/s life out of our work life

<swann{ME}> that was 2 years ago ..

<trufriend> THAT'S what i'm trying to find out kat.......but not through sidelined responses......particulars, suggestions to certain situations.....not confessions, i'm not an ordained minister

<swann{ME}> i have evolved LOL

<swann{ME}> in montreal i would walk on the end of a leash ..

<katiias> just fyi...there are ministers..who are... involved in D/s relationship....

<swann{ME}> crawl to him in public

<trufriend> and how did you feel swann?

* katiias just thot she'd throw that out there... *g*

<swann{ME}> here i think it may not go over very well

<Finn^m^> kash!!!!

<swann{ME}> tru ....when i first accepted my collar...

<kashina-> hi ya Finn

<swann{ME}> i was so green that saying Master was uncomfortable

<katiias> must be ten bells..kash is here...

<swann{ME}> today i am not the same as 3 years ago

* Dan^^- smiles

<kashina-> it is.......10 bells :)

<lil^bear^> Sir Dan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<`forbidden> ok 10 by my clock

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> what has changed swan...

<`forbidden> is it over yet?

<Dan^^-> hello lil

<`forbidden> someone say yes

<Dan^^-> how are you girl?

* katiias rings the bell *DING DING DING*

<swann{ME}> my trust grew

* lil^bear^ blushes bear is fine Sir..how are you?

<swann{ME}> my understanding grew

<swann{ME}> i do it now from my heart and soul

<Dan^^-> I am well girl...

<abigaille> I understand your sense of having evolved swann....but I'm not sure that "doing anything" in public is the ultimate goal for every D/s relationship

<Mltdwn^jazmaia> good answer swan :)

<Dan^^-> how was your day?

<lyxanna> wonderful point abi

* katiias nods... yes..to abi...

<swann{ME}> but abi ...as i said

<wickdplaym8{SL}> I don't think its about what I do and don't do in public..its about consistent I am in my submission...and the fact is, I can't turn it off because we left the house - nor does he want it that way

<swann{ME}> then what you asked was a trick question LOL

<swann{ME}> you asked what i would do

<swann{ME}> you didn't ask what i would be asked to do

<swann{ME}> and where it is

<swann{ME}> as i have said so many times..

<Wolfe^en> some need a neon sign to make it work it seems

<jalyn> bye all...great discussion :)

<Justice^> nite jalyn

<swann{ME}> there are variables that make the answer different in different situations

* jalyn waves and exits

<swann{ME}> nite nite jayly sweet dreams

<katiias> everybody has variables to be sure...

<Justice^> hi SirC

<trufriend> thank you ladies and gentlemen for putting up with me tonight....and thank you A/all for an interesting discussion