July 23 2000 EhBC Online Discussion
<`abi> Tonight's discussion topic is "The Mainstreaming of BDSM". Please feel free to join in with questions and comments, but kindly refrain from Walton-style hi/byes until the discussion ends at 10pm. Note that we log the discussion for posting to our website, so please change your nick before joining the discussion if you wish to remain anonymous. Our recommended server is Hebron.
<LrdTZ> What do you mean by Mainstreaming of BDSM abi
<`abi> lol..that was going to be my first question Lrdtz :)
<ravynne^> mine too!
<LrdTZ> sorry beat you too it.
<LrdTZ> Do we mean getting it out into the public??
<`abi> anyone care to take a shot at defining it?
<Chiaroscuro{a}> hmmm... well it by mainstream I would gather that it might have some level of general acceptance and awareness...
<`abi> Yes, LrdTZ ...I'd say the "general public" getting their hands on BDSM would qualify as mainstreaming
<Ron^`> I think mainstreaming is acceptable by the general public
<`abi> anyone have some examples of what they'd consider to be the "mainstreaming" of BDSM?
<Chiaroscuro{a}> I don't think it is there yet... (from my limited exposure).. but to contradict myself 2 new bdsm stores HAVE opened up recently
<dalian> perhaps from the perspective of current fashion...leather wear and collars
<`abi> who do you think is shopping in them Chiaroscuro{a}?
`abi nods to dalian ...yes....Shania in a collar at the Grammy's I believe
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> **noting for the record that spanking is becoming fashionable in movies, and our courts ok'd it
<Chiaroscuro{a}> well, this I wouldn't know for sure... but if I had to guess... people involved in bdsm... younger people.. but the stores aren't hidden in any way so anyone could go in
<LrdTZ> they okeyed spanking a child for discipline not an adult.
<ravynne^> zaR`n`LeatherSmith i thought they were appealing it?
<`abi> but I do recall an Ally McBeal episode of last year that involved spanking
<`abi> do you think it's just the fashions or is it more of the lifestyle that is going mainstream dalian?
<Chiaroscuro{a}> does humourous/satirical references to bdsm count... I am not sure, thats why I'm asking
<dalian> I myself think it's the fashion...not the ideology
<crysania-jen> agrees with dalian but the ideology may follow once the fashion is common place
<`abi> of course it does Chiaroscuro{a} ...I'd say that's a real example of BDSM popping up in public places
<crysania-jen> each small steps brings it more to the forefront
<LrdTZ> the fashion is being worn by kids that don't know bdsm from a whole in the wall.
<LrdTZ> hole even.
<`abi> is that what mainstreaming does crysania-jen? ....or is it just a fashion trend that will pass
<dalian> and if you were to ask them...they would reply "not a chance...what are you...sick?"
<`abi> so what's the *kick* in wearing leather then dalian?
<Sweetone{LT}> what do you mean by fashion?? leather?
<canplay> i did not know there was a *fashion* for bdsm, call me naive
<crysania-jen> not sure, but when we see something often enough it we become used to it
<Chiaroscuro{a}> I think certain elements of bdsm might be becoming mainstream... others are not...
<dalian> it feels great...promotes perceived status..looks cool at the clubs...etc
<canplay> my daughter dresses goth ,, that does not mean bdsm to her
<`abi> well canplay...I think there are things...like leather, like collars that we associate with BDSM which seem to be popping up on 'nilla folks more and more of late
<Sweetone{LT}> leather does not mean bdsm either
<Sweetone{LT}> but that does not mean bdsm abi
<crysania-jen> it is more than fashion, it is references in other places as well
<crysania-jen> like the globe covering the show downtown
<`abi> that was in fact my question Sweetone...what does it mean?
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> look what the rise in Harley riding Stars did for the making Harleys respectable,,,and a status symbol,, a shame really, if BDSM were to follow due to fashion,, resulting in alot of kinky dressed nillas swinging floggers
<Sweetone{LT}> it means people wear what they want
<`Susanne> weird. I remeber wearing collars as a kid.. in the punk era.. not bdsm at all
<TheWolfe> I wear a leather jacket but that doesn't make Me a biker
<TheWolfe> I like it
<canplay> from what i see, dressing Gothic is a statement against society and nothing to do with bdsm
<`abi> how do you think *real* Harley riders view that kind of assumption of their "gear" zar?
<crysania-jen> but there is fashion and then fashion, leather corset, compared to leather jacket, leather body harness vs leather vest
<TheWolfe> goth is a fashion statement, nothing more
<_Unholy_a> I don't think we can say we own any of it. Most of this stuff has been around a long time without BDSM being associated it. We can hardly claim to own it or look down on people who wear it without knowing the 'meaning' behind it.
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> i'm sure they cringe just a we are,,,,,,
<canplay> i don't care what anyone thinks of fashion, i would love more to understand the philosophy of bdsm
<`abi> does BDSM make an anti-society statement do you think canplay?
<Sweetone{LT}> agreed canplay
<LrdTZ> agreed
<crysania-jen> agrees
<Chiaroscuro{a}> this seems to lead us back to the real question... is bdsm really mainstream then?
<LrdTZ> but BDSM is an antisociety statement
<Sweetone{LT}> bdsm is a personal lifestyle choice
<canplay> if only more could or would listen fully to what bdsm really is *smiles*
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> LS is also pointing out that this could have a positive tho,, we could hide in public alot easier,,(and not have to change on the way home from a party! )
<LrdTZ> I dont' bother changing.
<canplay> yes zaR`n`LeatherSmith,,, that part makes it easier :)
<canplay> but i would still like more to understand that bdsm is not as seedy as media portrays it
<_Unholy_{a}> What I think is intersting about BDSM become mainstream is you see it more and more on TV and other things. autumn and I just finished watching a show on it last weekend, plus it's on SexTV all of the time.
<crysania-jen> what advantages do we get if it is mainstream
<LrdTZ> a sub and I got pulled over one night after coming out of the limelight. in full dress and they did not even bat an eyelash.
<`abi> besides fashion statements...has anyone noticed BDSM references popping up anywhere else?
<`Susanne> I like to keep it seedy and underground, myself
<ravynne^> what was the sub wearing LrdTZ?
<{autumn}_U_> television
<Sweetone{LT}> bdsm is about a positive relationship...about peace and tranquility...
<LrdTZ> why Susanne
<LrdTZ> her french maid outfit.
<canplay> i would like to see it pop up at my local Adult Video store more that is all i know
<zee{LQ}> i have never wished to be mainstream in anything that i do
<{autumn}_U_> me neither zee
<`Susanne> so its not popular
<LrdTZ> it has to become popular so that it will become acceptable.
<_Unholy_{a}> There are still big laws against a lot of it in Canada, you have to go to the United States to get anything good.
<canplay> i think it is a very healthy lifestyle and i don't mind sharing
<_Unholy_{a}> ...on video that is.
<dalian> i agree canplay
<`abi> good point canplay....consentual bondage was okayed by the censor board a couple of years ago...is it popping up more in movies?
<zee{LQ}> how so LrdTZ.. to be gay isn't popular.. yet it is acceptable
<canplay> oh sure,, i can rent a grunt and fk video, but can't rent a D/s scene???
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> why the urgency to get this so accepted by the Mr & Mrs JQ Pubic ?
<Sweetone{LT}> have seen a few movies canplay...ya don't wanna waste your money renting them...lol
<LrdTZ> zee you should have been in pride parades 10 years ago and compare them to today. being gay is a lot more popular and its legal in all forms today but sure was not 10 years ago.
<`abi> is there an urgency zaR`n`LeatherSmith?
<TheWolfe> so people will stop loseing their kids and jobs over it zaR`n`LeatherSmith
<`Susanne> I don't want it accepted
<Sweetone{LT}> there seems to be abi
<Sweetone{LT}> who is doing that Wolfe?
<_Unholy_{a}> No, very light spanking and only light bondage is acceptable now, and that's only come into effect very recently.
<LrdTZ> why not Susanne
<TheWolfe> doing what?
<Sweetone{LT}> why does one's employer need to know about your personal life?
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> i am begining to think many would wish it,, it seems to be the food for discussion everywhere lately,,,,,
<canplay> i find it sad that some may only be in lifestyle to be different*shakes her head*
<TheWolfe> they don't....but one has to hide it like it's criminal activity
<`Susanne> having the neighbour boy claiming he is Dom.. poleese
<Chiaroscuro{a}> the main thing that is important to me is LEGAL acceptance...
<`abi> can you give us some examples zaR`n`LeatherSmith?
<{autumn}_U_> well, im not in the lifestyle cuz i wanna be different, i am because i AM different
<LrdTZ> and if he is. then that is one more Dom for subs if he is not then the community would find out that he is not.
<canplay> i am not different ,, i am only more aware
<LrdTZ> same thing with subs that say i'm a sub but there not.
<canplay> just because you are aware of the pleasures of bdsm does not make you different inside
<`abi> autumn...do you think that seeing BDSM references more and more in the public (tv, advertising, fashion etc.) makes us seem less different?
<Sweetone{LT}> what do you mean legal acceptance Chiaroscuro{a}?
<TheWolfe> it makes you different in activity, which is what autumn was getting at i think
<{autumn}_U_> i guess its how you look at it i suppose....i consider my veiws and lifestyle different ....hense the terminology that we all use which is segregating.....ie. vanilla.....i dont see that as a terrible thing
<canplay> good point Wolfe
<{autumn}_U_> yep TW....exactly
<Sweetone{LT}> who is hiding anything like a criminal Wolfe? how is keeping your private life private, hiding things in this manner?
<Chiaroscuro{a}> Sweetone{LT}... as in lack of trouble with the law for consentual S&M
<_Unholy_{a}> What gives us the right to decide who should or shouldn't be 'in the lifestyle' I'm sure everyone here has very different reasons for being in the lifestyle. What gives us the right to choose someone else's life or sexual preferences.
<Sweetone{LT}> and how is that a problem?
<canplay> i enjoy the lifestlye so much yet i don't see problem with sharing this with others?
<crysania-jen> Legal acceptance would help avoid Dom's getting arrested over missed safe calls as we talked about last week
<crysania-jen> or people using it in divorces
<TheWolfe> Sweetone{LT}, people get found out, even when they don't shout it out to the world
<{autumn}_U_> i dont either canplay, but i am mindful of other peoples tolerances
<TheWolfe> it would be nice if people didn't have to be frightened of being outed so much
<Chiaroscuro{a}> or police arresting a Dom for battery (because they have the option to arrest regardless of whether it is consenual or not)
<`abi> do you think that the upswing in mainstream BDSM references helps that TheWolfe?
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> so what if i like to get my ass spanked,, or nipples tweaked,, where does that belong in the workplace or PTA?
<canplay> if it were more open,it may be more tolerated autumn
<Sweetone{LT}> Wolfe...why does anyone need to know your personal private lifestyle choices?
<TheWolfe> I hope it will
<{autumn}_U_> the tough part is, ive read books and seen documentaries that give the public a missinterpreted view.....
<TheWolfe> it has helped the gay community, their children aren't being taken away and their jobs are safe
<`abi> more specific to our topic zar ... what happens when people start seeing that kind of activity on their favourite tv show?
<TheWolfe> they don't need to know, but often they find out
<LrdTZ> nope but zaR`n`LeatherSmith if you had kids and were getting divorced your other half could and would get custody because you like geting spanked.
<Sweetone{LT}> that was a politcal movement Wolfe...you can't compare that to bdsm
<canplay> so true autumn, that is why many would like info coming from insiders ,, to be more on target
<{autumn}_U_> indeed
<crysania-jen> regular people don't have the right or need to know, but your doctor will probably know
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> its education,, introduction and indoctrination,,,,,,
<{autumn}_U_> we really need that
<`abi> so...as "lifestyle BDSM folks" what do you think when you see a billboard with a leatherclad arm holding a cellphone with the caption "It also vibrates"?
<Chiaroscuro{a}> if the masses see something on a sitcom, they think about it.
<TheWolfe> my point is....if bdsm becomes more accepted, then perhaps the possibility of the injustices that happen may disappear over time and with public knowledge and understanding
<canplay> i fear my ex finding out by a disgruntled exMaster, not from my lips
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> just as there are good commercials and bad infomercials,, its what they do with that info that will make our lifestyle choice more pubicly acceptable (or squick the heck out of them
<_Unholy_{a}> What we have to remember here is that our lifestyle pushes occasionally pushes extremes, and sometimes extreme extremes. Though standard BDSM is slowly become acceptable what about the people into bloodsports, etc.
* canplay laffs at infomercials, imagines a bdsm infomercial *laffs*
<`abi> what do you think is happening so far zar?...are the references good ones or bad ones?
<Sweetone{LT}> what injustices Wolfe?? can you name 5 people who were fired simply because they were into bdsm?
<Chiaroscuro{a}> abi... I think the references thus far are satires.
<Sweetone{LT}> or rather do you know these people personally??
<TheWolfe> theoretical debate seems to be lost here
<`abi> is that good or bad, do you think Chiaroscuro{a}?
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> abi, am i not a part of the education foundation? Any i have informed havent had issues... in a professional and personal capacity btw)
<TheWolfe> yes I know 3...does that qualify?
<Sweetone{LT}> that were fired only because of bdsm?? not work issues??
<Chiaroscuro{a}> hmmm... good question. Honestly, I don't have an answer... bad in some ways, sometimes humour helps people accept things sometimes though
* `abi nods to zar....but how do you feel about the way that BDSM is portrayed in media...movies, commercials, fashion mags...etc? ... good or bad in your opinion?
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> i have no issues with it
<TheWolfe> what would happen if you were outed Sweetone{LT}?
<`abi> are you surpised when you encounter it in the media zar?
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> no
<zee{LQ}> `abi.. i see it portrayed just as the gays were at one time.. the extremes, the ratings grabbers, the hidden forbidden these people are not like us kind. whatever makes the money is how they go
<`abi> so then...we can safely say that BDSM has gone mainstream?
<Chiaroscuro{a}> abi.. I don't think so...
* canplay does not find it is mainstream yet
<`abi> what does the public do with that zee?
<TheWolfe> it's marketable `abi...not necessarily mainstream
<`abi> ahhh... a very good distinction TheWolfe :) ... what makes it marketable?
<LrdTZ> how do you figure that abi. were not mainstreamed public twist it around as were freaks like in a freak show.
<Chiaroscuro{a}> previous to having a friend introduce me to it, I hadn't realized that the 'scene' was so active.
<_Unholy_{a}> Personnaly I think it's a good thing. However it puts a big responsibilty on us to keep the public truthfully informed so that we control the perception of BDSM rather than let the media pick up on extreme examples and tout them as the norm.
<LrdTZ> makes it marketable because ppl watch freaks.
<crysania-jen> agrees with Chiaroscuro{a} because we are involved we notice more
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> no i say the introduction of it, the icing on the cake has been presented,, the real BDSM, the heart and soul of it ,, is still tucked away behind closed doors,, where it belongs
* Kilted_One thinks we are but little fish in a big big stream
<canplay> i wouldn't even mind some bdsm humor ,, that would mean we made it mainstream more
* `abi chuckles... I don't figure anything LrdTz ..... can you give an example of how that happens in the media?
* vixen{KO} squirms
<Sweetone{LT}> to answer your question Wolfe...i would be disappointed with the people in the lifestyle...but my life would go on...
<LrdTZ> sure do you watch Zena??
<`abi> so what part of it don't you think belongs to the public zaR`n`LeatherSmith?
<canplay> usually opening minds starts with jokes of poor taste,, then with disussing them, people awaken,seen this with gays, aids etc
<TheWolfe> so it wouldn't cause any grief in your life? ie:workplace, family, friends,church(for some)
<vixen{KO}> agreed canplay
<`abi> good example LrdTz ... how relevant is Zena to what the public perceives about BDSM.....does it make Joe 'Nilla more comfortable, more aware, more anything?
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> i dont have nilla sex in public, why would i want to have Kink Sex in pubic abi
<LrdTZ> nope its violence against ppl and you can V chip it out.
<dalian> more interested but not more aware
<Chiaroscuro{a}> I don't think Zena is at all relevant, bdsm is more than the clothes and a spanking... I think the mainstream community knows nothing about the power exchange aspects of it.
* `abi chuckles...I dunno zar...different strokes and all that...so, it's the sexuality of BDSM that you think doesn't belong in the public light?...
<LrdThomas> it is interesting how some feel the need to mainstream bdsm. is it because of basic insecuirties they have, needing a validation by society? It seems to me, the "community" can't agree what bdsm is for the most part, how would (and what good) would come of trying to mainstream the subtelities of this to people who don't know/don't care, or will never figure it oot?
* Kilted_One thinks that vannilla sex in public is and oxy-moron
<zee{LQ}> most people are content to think we just are kinky in bed.. they don't seem to want to take the time to know the depth of it.. it is so abstract and subjective.. those that do.. will do on their own
* `abi nods to dalian...so shows like Zena..and let's not forget Herc ... tweak an interest?...do they also give people a distorted view of BDSM?
<Chiaroscuro{a}> LrdThomas... I don't get the impression that people want to mainstream it as much as not get in trouble for doing it... legal or "moral"
<LrdTZ> i'd like to think that i'm not going to get arrested for flogging a sub if it were legal
<zee{LQ}> there is so many facets of BDSM.. to try to even mainstream it within ourselves is a task and a half
<`abi> but might the public get their first taste of BDSM vibes from Zena Chiaroscuro{a}?
<LrdTZ> if the mainstreaming of the community could open those doors so that we can tell them the difference between abuse and what we do then its a good thing.
<LrdThomas> it is legal.... and if one loses ones job over bdsm, i suspect that that is just a smoke screen.
<Sweetone{LT}> that is one and the same Chiaroscuro{a}...if it's mainstream, it's accepted..if it's accepted..blah blah blah...
<vixen{KO}> agreed zee{LQ}....had a boss once say to me after a customer was asking about my KOlar..."why didn't you just tell her you were into kinky sex and be done with it?"
<canplay> when i find something that is so wonderful, so pleasing, so great,, i would like others to know of this also, it does not take away from me, so i would like to share views of bdsm with all
<TheWolfe> A. To alleviate that people encounter when being found out by the general public B. So those who have an interest know where to go to find out more C. To validate what many are concerned is not normal (as you said, Thomas) D. To make it safer
<Chiaroscuro{a}> abi... maybe... I didn't really make the connection before learning more about bdsm
<`abi> do you think that's why BDSM has an appeal to the public KO ... because it's perceived somehow as "naughty"?
<dalian> a distorted view yes...all you see is the sexy outfit and the physical act perhaps...but no substance...it provides to misinformation that bdsm is strictly physical and negates entirely the psychological side
<zee{LQ}> canplay.. i have tried to educate and explain the dept of BDSM and i normally lose their interest shortly after beginning. the kink is what they are interested in.
<TheWolfe> mainstreaming has happened already, it is no longer considered a mental illness
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> i think its becoming more desirable to the general public because its interesting, and it beats a quick toss during Jay Leno and the Simpsons
<`abi> vixen...I think reaction to your KOlar is a good example of how BDSM has gone mainstream to some extent...can you share with us the reaction of your son and his friends to your KOlar?
<canplay> too bad zee, my friends have been more open and i am more then happy to share what i can to enlighten them
<Sweetone{LT}> everyone grows up to be individual...we are all different...what is normal??
<Kilted_One> I think that there are a whole load of ppl who feel "something' a tug at the emotions somewhere when they see BDSM in a sexy format....it is different it is sexy (and who doesnt think that Zena was sexy or her outfit??)
<Sweetone{LT}> and why do we have to be validated for being who we are?
<zee{LQ}> sure `abi it is a forbidden element ...to be honest.. that in itself is erotic for many of U/us imho
* {autumn}_U_ agrees
* `abi nods to zar .... why do you think the public finds it "interesting"?
<vixen{KO}> my kids' friends just think i'm a kewl mom who's into goth....at least that's all they let on to me
<crysania-jen> but there is a difference in those who are interested in the kink and those in the lifestyle, there are those who want to play but could never live it 7/24
<LrdTZ> but what do your kids' friends parents think vixen
<zee{LQ}> my kids think U/us adults are into role playing stuff..hence the slavegirl embroidered on my bath robe
* dalian would love to see zee's bathrobe ;)
<vixen{KO}> couldn't tell ya, LrdTZ.....i don't know any of the kids' parents...
<`abi> yep zee...and is that what makes it marketable?....
<cariye> zee would you take that bathrobe to wear if you were admitted to the hospital?
<{autumn}_U_> i would
* vixen{KO} would too
<dalian> i would too
<crysania-jen> i would too
<_Unholy_{a}> Not me.
<{autumn}_U_> lol
<zee{LQ}> exactly crysania-jen.. so many variables within ourselves
<edri{AF}> sounds like fun<G>
<{autumn}_U_> if i find something beautiful i dont care what others think
* vixen{KO} wears a steel KOlar crossing the border on an almost daily basis with work...and i mostly just get an odd raise of an eyebrow, but have never been pulled into secondary for it.
<{autumn}_U_> and my submission, from my heart and all the little things that symbolize it are beautiful to me
<Kilted_One> we get some strange looks in the stores and supermarket regarding the KO_lar but no one has every said anything...oh wait that is not true...one woman said to vixen "Nice collar you have there"
<zee{LQ}> yep i would.. i have told the adult store women that i am a slave..when presented with a teddy that had a bottom to it.i told her i wasn't allowed to wear bottoms..lol
<_Unholy_{a}> Yes, but you still have to keep it hidden in your workplace and other places.
<LrdTZ> I acutally heard of a story today that a sub wearing a collar, (male) was turned away from the border because of the collar.
<crysania-jen> most would think it was just a fashion accessory would not know what it represented
<zee{LQ}> but would i go into a long talk about the robe and the name and the life with a nurse or my roomate.. NO
<`abi> so...I think we've identified two elements that bring BDSM into mainstream media ... 1-sex sells and 2- people like associating themselves with something they consider to be anti-social ... any other elements at play in the mainstream?
<TheWolfe> people interested in sexuality
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> clarification please,, what defines anti social
<crysania-jen> `abi how amount the number of ppl involved i am fairly new so can't compare, are there more ppl today then in the past and if so why how did they find there way
<crysania-jen> wow, can't type tonight
<TheWolfe> there is a tv show called EROS that was on last night talking about oral sex
<zee{LQ}> _Unholy_{a} Sir.. i would keep most of my private life hidden in the workplace.. it is not professional to do otherwise i think? TMI for most people
* vixen{KO} concurs with TheWolfe....at least it's not considered a mental illness any longer....and personally, i feel that education to alleviate some of the naiive nellies out there is foremost for myself...can't speak for O/others
<TheWolfe> is oral sex mainstream?
<{autumn}_U_> i agree vixen
<TheWolfe> no, but it was certainly taboo to talk about
<zee{LQ}> yes i think it is mainstream TheWolfe Sir
<{autumn}_U_> it's what people dont know that feeds the negative....room to speculate and assume is so damaging
* `abi smiles...I suppose it depends on which stream you swim in TheWolfe ... but from a media point of view...I 'd say it probably still qualifies as "titilating"
<_Unholy_{a}> It depends on where you work and who you work with I suppose. I can talk about it around my work, but only in my department.
<Kilted_One> more and more little scenes depicting BDSM show up in movies....a Hooker that is a Domme with a flogger or whip, trying up, cuffs, restrainsts...all have shown lately several times...so I would say that the equipment is starting to be shown
<zee{LQ}> when i write for erotic magazines.. anal intercourse is mainstream.. fisting is not
<vixen{KO}> crysania-jen....the numbers have grown profusely with the introduction of the lifestyle via the net
<TheWolfe> mainstream within that sector who read those magazines
* `abi nods to KO ... that's a thought that crossed my mind when I visited Hardware...I wondered how long it would be before kids were walking up and down King St. swinging floggers because it's "cool"...and I'm not sure if I think that's a good thing or not
<Chiaroscuro{a}> abi... that would suck....
* vixen{KO} chuckles remembering a skit on SNL depicting a scene with a deaf Dominatrix....it was hilarious....and very mainstream with that show
<Sweetone{LT}> how does the equipment being shown, help educate as to the positive aspects of the d/s lifestyle??
<Chiaroscuro{a}> lets face it, part of all of us likes the 'forbidden fruit' aspect of it.
<zee{LQ}> _Unholy_{a} Sir..i would tell them i went away for the weekend and had a good time.. i wouldn't tell them details of it though..even if it was a nilla weekend
<TheWolfe> it doesn't necessarily educate, but it demystifies it
<`abi> do you think we can expect to see more and more references to BDSM in tv, movies and advertising?
<vixen{KO}> ya gotta clear some of the smoke before they can see the light
<Kilted_One> who said that it did depict a positive aspect Sweetone{LT}...I dont think it does in most cases it is put in to sensationalize the movie
<_Unholy_{a}> Hmmmm... ...I guess because of the department I'm in and the people I work with I can be a little more open.
<_Unholy_{a}> Plus.... ....people expect it out of me.
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> course if going mainstream means that i can be whupped in line at the grocery store,, now theres a debate worth
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> discussion
<Sweetone{LT}> lol
<`abi> I wonder Unholy if discussing the Ally McBeal spanking episode around the water cooler next day does anything to dymystify the lifestyle
<zee{LQ}> so _Unholy_{a} Sir.. they look forward to You wetting their imaginations and appetite on Mondays.. smiles
<_Unholy_{a}> Haha! Pretty much!
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> (i vote keep it underground thankyou very much (zaR)
<zee{LQ}> i suppose it depends where you work and who you work with
<Sweetone{LT}> people know about kinky sex...what they don't know is the dynamics of a power exchange relationship
<Sweetone{LT}> and we don't all know about that aspect of our neighbours either..it's a personal choice
<_Unholy_{a}> Hmmmm... ....not really demystify 'abi, it just lets people realize it is more accpetible, thus freeing us slightly from negative stereotypes.
<zaR`n`LeatherSmith> perhaps thats what they need to be educated on,, rather than waxing and caning 101
<`abi> okay..any nice wrapup thoughts?...anyone want to start an advertising consulting business?..."We can help you put kink into your marketplace"
* cariye starts thinking about kinky office furniture
<vixen{KO}> not my vote zaR.....to me, the more it's demystified, the more accepted W/we all are as just being another alternative lifestyle and "that's" ok....i.e. tolerated, accepted and not misconceived in general
* `abi smiles to cariye...I'd say that wraps it up nicely ... that's what the mainstreaming of BDSM is all about ... *everybody* is thinking about it in one way or another
<cariye> "employee's hanging around the water cooler ?"see our complete line of harnesses
<TheWolfe> agreed vixen{KO}
<`abi> and with that we'll consider it a wrap...thank you all for participating tonight