June 26, 2005 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "The Mainstreaming of BDSM". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<dana^^> forgot the topic... grins and blushes
<dana^^> oh there it is
<kierana{DRFL}> lol...
<dana^^> sorry... lol
<dana^^> what would be the benefits of mainstreaming BDSM?
<kierana{DRFL}> no problem
<BernieRoehl> Well, that's an interesting question
<dana^^> thank you Bernie Sir... lol
<BernieRoehl> For many years the BDSM community was "underground", but with the arrival of the internet it's become much more visible
* BernieRoehl smiles @ dana
<BernieRoehl> We're now a topic of conversation among curious vanilla folk, whereas once the subject was taboo
<dana^^> very much so Sir... its now one of the "spice up tv" topics.. not to mention dem spice up the bedroom shows..
<kierana{DRFL}> one benefit might be that some events wouldn't have to be cancelled due to some vocal public detractors
<BernieRoehl> Now it's not unusual to see references to BDSM in mainstream films, television programs and magazine articles
<BernieRoehl> That's a good point, kierana{DRFL} -- now that people know what we're about and there's somewhat greater acceptance, we're less likely to have conflicts with venues
<dana^^> the main benefit i can see is not fearing your coworkers find out...
* BernieRoehl nods
<Omy> Acceptance is nice...but is not likely to happen in our lifestyle. Though I'd love to be wrong on this.
<kierana{DRFL}> not too worried about acceptance as i am about not having to "hide" my opinions on certain aspects of my chosen lifestyle
<dana^^> nor do i keirana... though im not in the habit of discussing my need for pain... in the past its been recieved as a joke or a good doctor was recommended...
<BernieRoehl> I think the two go hand in hand -- we don't have to hide, because there's a measure of acceptance
<BernieRoehl> So what do people feel the word "mainstreaming" means in this context?
<dana^^> the D/s side is accepted... with so many learning about the "lifestyle" online and rejecting the bdsm...
<Omy> I wonder if there isn't for some of us an aspect of rebellion...and if the lifestyle was readily accepted that we'd go looking for something else
<dana^^> possibly Omy Sir... there is that shock value some folks enjoy giving...
<BernieRoehl> Possibly, though I doubt any of us are here *only* because of the sense of rebellion
<dana^^> took me long enough to see my nature as my strength.. lol.. no rebel here..
<Omy> No Bernie...but perhaps that was part of the initial attraction
<dana^^> like most fads
<blip> there does seem to be a sense that some people resent the mainstreaming of bdsm as if it somehow dilutes the "specialness" of it
<krista-F> i think i am too old to be a recognized rebel..at my age they call it senility
<dana^^> lol krista...
<Omy> I think before we can expect mainstream acceptance of BDSM, we have to learn tolerance
<dana^^> i do to a certain extend blip... judgemental attitudes without even an attempt at understanding does that to me.. lol
* BernieRoehl nods
<blip> i've seen that go both ways...many of the die hard lifestylers are quite judgemental of what they call the stand and pose crowd and vice versa
<blip> scene snobs are unattractive no matter which side of the fence they are one
<Omy> We have "groups" that call themselves "communities"
<Omy> Agreed blip
<dana^^> i agree blip
<blip> personally, i love the vast diversity of the "community" and think mainstreaming only adds to that
<Omy> We cannot expect "vanillaville" to be tolerant of ourselves if we in the "community" can't tolerate each other. The "highschool" mentality that exists has to be eradicated
<BernieRoehl> As the community grows, it's inevitable that it will partition itself into segments, such as the "stand and model" crowd
<kierana{DRFL}> that may never happen, Omy Sir...just because of human nature being the way it is
<BernieRoehl> The challenge is to maintain a broader sense of connection while that process happens
<blip> agreed, Bernie Sor
<blip> Sir
<blip> oops
<blip> :)
<Omy> It might not kierana{DRFL}...but the more people that prescribe...the more likely it can happen
<dana^^> i love that diversity too blip... there is a common trait that does round through folks involved in the "lifestyle"... that boldness to explore themselves more deeply... the intensity of doing just that...
<dana^^> so how do you keep that connection with the various groups?
<kierana{DRFL}> i just follow the simple rule of "judge not lest you be judged likewise" it's a very simple rule, not always easy to follow tho...
<BernieRoehl> I think it begins with mutual acceptance
<blip> an open heart and mind....being comfortable enough with ones self that other's differences aren't perceieved as a threat but rather an enrichment
<kierana{DRFL}> accepting the whole person...not just their kink
<BernieRoehl> I've seen a lot of people cross over from "stand and model" into the aspect of the community that we're all involved in
<arhiannah> i have many 'nilla friends that know & accept what it is that i do...it's just not for them, and some don't understand...but they don't judge me for it..
<krista-F> i have been judged and lost friends due to my lifestyle choices
<kierana{DRFL}> same here arhi...
<dana^^> i have to ask... stand and model?
<blip> and there are a few people who straddle both sides of that fence easily as well and are comfortable on either side
<kierana{DRFL}> dana...posers...
<dana^^> same here krista... but then im also a very private person...
<dana^^> ahhhh... thank you kierana...
<kierana{DRFL}> *smiles* no problem
<dana^^> was going to say i do alotta stand and drooling myself.. grins
<kierana{DRFL}> rofl...me too since Master doesn't like to play in public, i just get to watch...lol
* arhiannah does too....but i also play when i get the chance...
<krista-F> i am just me...i dont understand why this changes who i am when people find out about it..i am not trying to convert them...
* Omy thinks of the last party and agrees with dana
<dana^^> lol
<Omy> Thanks for not drooling over my boots
<dana^^> that goes to enjoying who you are.. accepting it... and allowing friends in...
* arhiannah polishes 'em for ya
<dana^^> lol
<kierana{DRFL}> and there are ppl who accept what they see without understanding what is really happening...like serving Master first at family functions and at 'nilla friends' places
<dana^^> lots of interesting ways ... private and intimate to live true to your relationship without be over the top..
<kierana{DRFL}> yes dana...
<Omy> Do any of you feel you need mainstream society to accept you?
<dana^^> im off topic i know.. sorry... but i was thinking about being in public.. not an bdsm environment... would you feel comfortable in collar and leash?...
<Omy> Personally dana...no I wouldn't ;)
* Omy chuckles
* BernieRoehl smiles
<arhiannah> no, i wouldn't dana...there's a time & a place for my bad behaviour ;)
<dana^^> lol.. lol
<arhiannah> geeze Omy...i think you'd look cute
<Omy> This isn't one of "those" places arhiannah lol
<arhiannah> lol
<dana^^> to a certain extend i do ... i dont want to lose my employment because of who i am... but as to exactly what takes place between a couple or poly family... thats not necessary for everyone to know
<Omy> Agreed dana...there is a reason I call it my "private" life
<dana^^> nods and nods...
<arhiannah> i got ragged out by my boss for going to a friggin' nudist resort...can you imagine the fall-out if they knew i participate in this lifestyle???
<dana^^> yikes... that i dont understand...
<kierana{DRFL}> i think i'm glad that my boss, although embarrassed by some of our discussions, is very open minded about my lifestyle choices...
<Omy> What business is it of theirs what you do on your own time?
<arhiannah> she made it her business Omy....consequently i discuss NOTHING personal with her anymore
<arhiannah> and she wonders why our "professional" relationship has degraded
<dana^^> i have to admit i dont like the feeling of my lifepath being the topic of entertainment... if ask i try to explain..
<angmoh> hello
<angmoh> can i register
<BernieRoehl> Hello, angmoh. No need to register, you're welcome to join us here. We're discussing the mainstreaming of BDSM at the moment
<BernieRoehl> I think that changing your co-worker's attitudes, or at least making them less of a threat, is one of the good things that may flow from mainstreaming arhiannah
<kierana{DRFL}> i don't discuss my choices with ppl who only want entertainment...or who only want to make judgemental comments...but, if someone is really curious, i try to be as honest as i can be without going into too much personal detail
<dana^^> yes... better phrased than mine kierana...
<angmoh> sorry...for my ignorance on how this works.....
<BernieRoehl> No need to apologize, angmoh. Settle back, enjoy the discussion, and participate if you like
<kierana{DRFL}> my boss is just too easy to tease, tho...*grins* and his wife is very dominant and curious lol
<dana^^> lol
<arhiannah> my co-workers don't care BernieRoehl, at least not those who have any clue about WIITWD...but i'll have my union crawlin' up her ass if she tries to make any of my personal life an issue again
<arhiannah> i don't drop trow and show off any marks...i don't detail my escapades (tho' some would like me to...lol)...i don't share what i'm not questioned about...
* BernieRoehl nods
<Omy> Why even share that?
<BernieRoehl> Of course, not everyone has that support arhiannah. I think it would be great if no one had to worry about losing a job because of their personal lifestyle choices.
<dana^^> what other benefits would mainstreaming have
<blip> a fet shop on every corner? ;)
<dana^^> lolol
<dana^^> more playparties
<dana^^> lol
<BernieRoehl> I doubt if anyone could be fired these days simply for being gay, and eventually it would be good to know that all of us had the same protection
<straponlvr-m> Hello A/all
<kierana{DRFL}> being able to build a dungeon in every basement
<dana^^> i agree Bernie Sir...
<dana^^> lol
<dana^^> or backyard... grins
<Omy> I doubt anyone could Bernie...but I'll bet my last $20 that it happens. It's just called something else
* BernieRoehl smiles @ the fet shop on every corner
<BernieRoehl> They really ought to be 24/7, like convenience stores, 'cause you never know when you might need something
<dana^^> lolol
<blip> seriously, one of the benefits would be that people would be less likely to feel like their kink is weird or that they are messed up for enjoying kink
<kierana{DRFL}> lol
<Omy> Yeah...be a bitch to have a paddle break in mid-scene
<dana^^> or cane
<`abi{A}> and it would be much easier for the general public to have accurate information
<`abi{A}> I recently had the experience of being maliciously outed to a very old friend
<Omy> The accurate information is a good point
<`abi{A}> it turned out fine, but the amount of misinformation that I had to correct was quite astonishing
<dana^^> my only concern is for children... if bdsm is more open... the way sexuality is protrayed now is confusing enough for them
<Johncin> no kidding dana, 2 Moms or 2 Dads
<dana^^> thats an excellent point abi... misinformation travels fast
<dana^^> more like Mom or Dad carries a whip in hand... lol
<Omy> I read where in some separate schools they make the kids sign a contract which says they'll abstain from sex until they are married
<dana^^> ive heard of that also...
<blip> or what? like that could be legally binding
<Omy> I think Bill Clinton must have attended that school
<dana^^> but the pressure is unbelievable...
<`abi{A}> woud be so much easier to get them to sign one which says they will abstain after they are married
<blip> LOL!
<dana^^> certain acts are considered not to be sex... but it's "enpowering"
<dana^^> ?
<Omy> One thing I think we CAN do is to press our school officials to teach proper sex ed.
<dana^^> lol
<blip> who defines "proper"?
<Omy> Give kids a healthy attitude towards sex.
<dana^^> abi you must know my ex then.. lol
<Omy> Sorry..healthy is the word I was struggling for
<`abi{A}> information about sex needs to be age appropriate...that applies to BDSM as well
<Omy> agreed
<dana^^> so agrees abi
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
* BernieRoehl agrees with abi
<dana^^> im very open about that topic... but have always given the information they asked for... as to bdsm, i wouldnt know how to explain it to them at this age
<`abi{A}> the same way dana
<Omy> I think BDSM is already in the mainstream...not always portrayed in a good light...but it's a beginning.
<dana^^> my daughter will be 18 soon... and very much my daughter... part of me wants to explain more details about coping as a submissive lady...
<BernieRoehl> That conversation (if you choose to have it) will be easier now than it would have been even just a decade ago
<BernieRoehl> And it will be even easier when the time comes for her to explain it to her own daughter
<`abi{A}> and if you kick in with a corset for her, it will score you kewl Mom points
<dana^^> i agree Sir.. the time is coming soon..
<dana^^> lolol abi...
<BernieRoehl> And little by little, we're making progress
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informally. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.