June 24 2001 EhBC Online Discussion
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using twisted.ma.us.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion is "Elaborate Scenes". The moderator tonight is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<lil_kitten> what a topic...
* BernieRoehl smiles
<BernieRoehl> It's been a busy three days, and I'm a little tired :-)
<BernieRoehl> By "elaborate scenes" we mean things that require a lot of set-up and preparation. The classic example is a kidnapping scene, but there are others.
<S_W> Your scene(s) last night were clearly too elaboarate Bernie
* BernieRoehl chuckles
<lil_kitten> ah
<BernieRoehl> Had fun last night :-)
<breeze{JFC}> i like the flash cotton
* S_W likes it too - though kitty has other temrs to describe it
* breeze{JFC} had knife play
* Peaches` chuckles
<breeze{JFC}> well i know a subby who enjoyed it S_W
<BernieRoehl> Yes, the flash cotton last night was quite effective
<BernieRoehl> So, do other people have examples of elaborate scenes they've done, or heard about?
<lil_kitten> ...you can have an elaborate scene without elaborate planning though, right?
<BernieRoehl> True, lil_kitten
<^sky_> does suspension count
<^sky_> teehee
<BernieRoehl> Yes, I'd say suspension is in that category
<S_W> Thematic and elaborate scenes are not only fun - they are the most challenging and involve the most planning. In that fashion, they are a scene that can take days or even weeks of planning.
<S_W> Heavily scripted role-play fits in the category.
* lil_kitten can think of a few elaborate scenes.... oh say.... hanging 2 feet off the ground....
<Brewster`> is the method of binding and torturing your sub on Saturday nite, construed as elaborate if it takes you all week to fugure out how to do it?
<BernieRoehl> Can you expand on that a bit, S_W?
<BernieRoehl> Yes, Brewster, I would say that anything that requires that amount of planning is in that category
<S_W> By script role-play - I don't simply mean a one-sided plan for a scene; rather, a dialogue & action script for the scene in which Top and botton assume roles.
<S_W> This may include a kidnap or rape scene, or something a little wierder, say, evil priest/slave, an interrogation & toruture scene, what have you
<S_W> obviously - they are just broad brush strokes more than a heavily detailed movie or TV "Script".
<BernieRoehl> I've always liked roleplaying scenes
<BernieRoehl> Of course, with any elaborate scene (particularly one that's scripted), you need to have contingency plans in case things diverge from what you had originally planned
<BernieRoehl> So... how do you handle it when that happens?
* Brewster` mumbles something about "where's the damm ketchup?"... and wonders how many times one must ask before it's deemed an elaborate interrogation scene. <g>
<S_W> There is nothing so easy to lose control of in a scene as a mental element. You can plan for bondage, you can plan for fire-play. You can plan for all kinds of the physical and have a contignency or a "save" built in so that matters go forward seamlessly. The mental is the one thing it is notoriously easy to lose control of very quickly.
<S_W> As Napoleon summed it up : "No plan survives contact with the enemy."
<BernieRoehl> Good quote, S_W
<BernieRoehl> So... who here has staged a kidnapping?
<`abi> in other words S_W ... if you show up dressed as a priest and your submissive bursts into gales of laughter the mental control is pretty much lost?
<lil_kitten> enemy, eh?
<Stevius> I wonder who the enemy is in scening....reality?
<S_W> I find you need to be a little relaxed - realize that you are not performing a Broadway Musical - and that it is supposed to be FUN. Don't fight it when the mental element slips away. Just try to brign it back around without a havey hand.
<S_W> lol
<S_W> well abi - I just meant that a sub's reaction within a scene to an eventy may be unexcpected. Though gales of laughter at the beginning would definitely fit the description.
<S_W> But what abi says has a subtle lesson - the more your scene is dependant up on "surprise" as an element to it - the Bigger the surprise and the more elaborate the plan, the less likely you are to have control over what happens during it.
<BernieRoehl> I've occasionally come in to help with an elaborate role-playing scene, particularly if the submissive is someone who doesn't know me. It gives me the freedom to be whatever the scene requires.
<BernieRoehl> Yes, S_W, good point -- the element of surprise means that (almost by definition) the reaction of the submissive can't be predicted
<S_W> True. Unfamiliarity always enhances role-play as pre-conceptions don't get as much in the way.
<Brewster`> what is an elaborate scene, excluding role playing, kidnap and rape?
<BernieRoehl> Exactly
<S_W> Sometimes - its the little things that work really well. I did a scene with kitten back last fall where a Domme assisted as a "surprise" along with the introduction of some long stemmed roses with thorns into the scene. It worked great.
<BernieRoehl> Someone mentioned suspension, though I would expand that to include anything that has to be set up. Someone I know once built a "dunking stool" next to a pond out in the country, for example.
<S_W> The mind-fuck within a scene, depending upon the nature of the mind-fuck, may also be an elaborate set-up (or a simple lil thing).
<BernieRoehl> Anyone have other examples of elaborate scenes, including kidnap/rape?
<BernieRoehl> Yes, mindfucks can be a large part of it. Especially if you take someone into an unfamiliar situation.
* S_W chuckles...The Parking Garage Rape Scene
<BernieRoehl> Now *that* sounds adventurous -- high element of risk there, with the chance of someone seeing what's going on and trying to intervene.
<Brewster`> So really mind fuck the victim... have the "intervener" in on it and kidnapped too!
* BernieRoehl laughs!
<S_W> There is an element of the uncontrolable to this one. Which adds to the fun of course. But there are many underground parking garages in Toronto area with levels that are DEAD at a certain point at night
<BernieRoehl> That's a *great* idea, Brewster`!
* Brewster` bows
<S_W> Nice part is - many have ceilings which are low enough to be incorporated as bondage points. Not that I like thse much - but a cheapy pair o handcuffs and you are all set.
<BernieRoehl> I've done a number of kidnap scenes over the years, and despite the amount of prepartion required, they're a lot of fun
<S_W> THe problem iwth a public rape scene is that if you are overheard or intruded upon - you could be in a GREAT deal of trouble. Scouting the location is *very* important.
<S_W> nothing like the police intervening to ruin your scene...
* Brewster` rules out the steps to 52 Division
<S_W> adding thirds (and fourths) to your scene can result in elaborate scenes as well.
<BernieRoehl> Yes, and that's also something I've done. Quite recently, in fact. :-)
<Puppet`> what is an elaborate scene? seems to be equated with edge play
<lil_kitten> not necessarily Puppet` ...
<BernieRoehl> An elaborate scene might involve edge play, but it doesn't have to
<BernieRoehl> The key element is that careful thought and preparation are put into it
<S_W> No, I don't think as all edge play as necessary an "elaborate" scene. Perhaps complicated or well scripted is as much a good equivalent description as any.
<Brewster`> Puppet, to me an elaborate scene, might well be a scene where you tell your slave that you are going to spend the next 5 hours taking her through a full range of emotions and sensations with nothing but 3 floggers. That would be extremely elaborate to me.
<S_W> Surprise scenes in terms of locations are others. The main element is that the location is unrpedicted, unknown to the sub, and you can "pre-position" equipment to be present at the location.
<Puppet`> so it could well be a very sensual romantic type, such as the slave being bound, teased, tormented, fed over a period of hours?
<S_W> Nothing like pulling a flogger out of nowhere with a flourish...
<BernieRoehl> Yes, definitely Puppet`
<S_W> not complicated - nor edgey - but *planned*
<Brewster`> yup Puppet. That is very kewl elaborate.
<zaRina`> LS has taken up to a week to plan out scenes for us,, and drops lil hints of my pending situation, but sometimes leaves me guessing,,i swear thats the hardest,,
* BernieRoehl smiles
<BernieRoehl> I like the idea of building towards the event
<zaRina`> <<prefers short intense scenes personally, but the "mindfuck" of what He "MIGHT" be planning adds to the aprehension
<S_W> the subtle mind-fuck and the "play-up" is one of the greatest bangs for the buck there is...
<BernieRoehl> Yes, the idea that a mysterious something is being planned, with no details ahead of time, can be fery powerful
<BernieRoehl> (very)
<BernieRoehl> (definitely too many late nights!) :-)
<BernieRoehl> So, am I the only one here who's staged a kidnap scene? (I'd be very surprised!)
<zaRina`> He left me trussed up in the trailer,, face up on the bondage table,, walking away, mentioning casually that he had noticed alot of spiders lately,,,,all i could think of , was that spiders were going to drop from the
<zaRina`> ceiling on me
* lil_kitten shudders
<Brewster`> adios
<lil_kitten> zaRina`.. you just made me break out in sweat
<zaRina`> ah the power of suggestion
<S_W> There is the hooker pick-up scene. Fetted up sub on a street corner, playing hooker.
<^sky_> oh i like that one
<S_W> Not really there to get dates of course - until Dom comes along. But a neato twist at role-play.
<`abi> with luck, the Dom gets there before the police officer that she thinks is part of the scene
<BernieRoehl> Yes, and there are a few variations on that. Send someone by to be a "customer", someone that the "hooker" doesn't know
<S_W> You can ad cars and back alleys and parking garages otthat one real easy. :-)
* Achilles{tr} thinks S_W has a parking garage fetish....
<S_W> ever heard a scream echo in a parking garage Achilles{tr}?
* S_W rests his case..
<Achilles{tr}> Yes.
<zaRina`> another scene was at KinkyCafe (Pilot), i was standing by the bar,,and LS came up beside me,,casually wrapped his arm over my shoulder,,leaned in close,,and suddenly wrapped His hand over my mouth and nose hard,,smothered surrounded by people, yet only two beside us,watched as i helplessly struggled,,(he planned this for days before)
<BernieRoehl> That raises a good point -- even if the scene is abrubt and unexpected (by the submissive), the Dom may have put a lot of time and thought into it.
<S_W> Quite true. Sometimes, - the more natural it all it is - the more actual work before the scene to make it so
* BernieRoehl yawns and stretches :-)
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's 9:45 pm. We're going to wrap up tonight's discussion a little bit early tonight, in honour of this being our last Sunday night discussion for the summer.
<BernieRoehl> Regular weekly discussions will resume in September. In the meantime, please feel free to gather here on Sunday nights at 9 pm, and just chat informally.
<BernieRoehl> Also be sure to send topic ideas to us (ehbc@ehbc.ca), so we have a good selection of things to discuss in the fall.
<BernieRoehl> I'm going offline to start processing and uploading the log. Thanks to everyone for participating, and have a great night!
* #bdsm-kw is being logged
<zaRina`> thanks Bernie!!
* S_W nods and thanks to all
<`melody> thanks Bernie :)