June 23, 2002 EhBC Online Discussion

<BernieRoehl> Okay, after a long delay due to IRC problems, let's begin...
<BernieRoehl> I've set an automatic message that reads as follows:
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using twisted.ma.us.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion is "The Nice Guy vs the Nasty Dom". The moderator is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<BernieRoehl> I had an interesting discussion on this topic with someone not long ago
<LORDWOLF> nice guy
<BernieRoehl> It had to do with reconciling the idea of being a nice guy (and we can talk about the definition of that) with being really nasty and rough in scene
<LORDWOLF> to the public image nasty dom behind close doors + ass hole
<BernieRoehl> So... has anyone else struggled with that, or known people who have?
<mist{LW}> Master struggles with that all the time
<mist{LW}> doesnt want to hurt me, and i am begging to be lol
<mist{LW}> well for more, anyway
<priceless_whore> i personally have issues when i am being spoiled or treated as someone's little princess and cared for(which i like) and finding a balance between that and not having the relationship be about "ME" sometimes i just want to be selfishly taken and just plain abused...its like..please stop taking such good care of me@
<LORDWOLF> hard to go from cool caml and corective to thundering mean
* BernieRoehl nods
<priceless_whore> in other words..being cared for well doesnt always fufill the needs to submit
<jen{SE}> part of the difference i think between nice guy and nasty guy image is difference between Sadist and Dominant, a Sadist appears more nasty cause as SE says it makes His dick hard *lol*
<Paulslilimp> i know that feeling priceless
<priceless_whore> well now a Sadist is a wonderful thing :)...but even then..if you are a masochist..then really he is being nice to you isnt he? lol
<jen{SE}> *lol*, that is the chicken and egg argument priceless_whore
<LORDWOLF> this nice guy doesnot have to get mean to get his dick hard but can see how arouseing that may be
* mist{LW} has seen it arouse when You are playing hard with me Master
<BernieRoehl> So what do we mean when we say "nice guy"?
<priceless_whore> oh i like mean..the meaner and the more humiliating in scene the better..but i mean just in general..i dont like the feeling sometimes of being cared for so well..sometimes i feel like i dont give enough back and as a submissive..i want to give
<jen{SE}> does not mean only way to get dick hard *lol*, but for many the pain is not the turn on... play is different than causing pain...
<LORDWOLF> nice guy the kind you want your daughter going out with
<{OT}cariye> I think if being a "nice guy" means that they treat you as less a sub/slave and more of a princess then that is not nice at all
<mist{LW}> yes, its the response that Master elicits from me that makes Him hard :}
<priceless_whore> sooooooo..if i am well cared for in life in general...and being abused in scene...then isnt that all about me?...that i struggle with
* jewel`{F} thinks that nice guy is the person that Master is when i watch Him with the children
<Fyre{j}> (there's laws about being mean to children)
* mist{LW} thinks nice guy is the Master who wont play when slave is not feeling up to par
<mist{LW}> wont play rough that is
* Fyre{j} checks ......... nope no law says I can't tell you not to cum
<LORDWOLF> oh so now i am a nice guy?
<priceless_whore> oh dont worry OT...i dont expect get away with any shit..but i mean if i am behaving...why would the Dom be mean to me? Then the relationship is status quo...so then what?
* mist{LW} chuckles and lets Master answer His own question, thinking its much wiser
<{OT}cariye> its cariye :)
<jen{SE}> i believe evreryone can be the Nice guy and the Nasty guy, i do not believe one is exclusive of the other
<priceless_whore> oh hiya cariye :)
<{OT}cariye> I was thinking that Master is always nice but He does not wait on me or take it easy one me
<jen{SE}> SE can be a teddy bear when needed or can be one mean SOB when that is needed
<BernieRoehl> And what about the transition -- moving from "nice" to "nasty"?
<priceless_whore> oh i think we subs expect that to be immediate
<`abi> I think they are sexiest when they co-exist
<priceless_whore> i mean if i misbehave..i think i expect the strict mean guy to show up very fast..i would be upset if i got away with shit just because he was in a nice mood
<priceless_whore> that wouldnt be good for the power exchange
<LORDWOLF> nice guy can be a image one plays to get what he wants when becomes anasty dom after\
<{OT}cariye> but if a Dom/Master cares for the sub and stops to check conditions and state of mind even when being nasty then are they not really being nice?
<priceless_whore> can you imagine..."not right now honey..im in too good a mood..you just go ahead and be disrespectful
<BernieRoehl> Can you expand on that, abi?
<LORDWOLF> i have allowe that but once and never will again
<{OT}cariye> lol nope priceless_whore
<jewel`{F}> i think that the good mood would be gone quiet quickly if i was disrespectful priceless_whore
* mist{LW} chuckles
<priceless_whore> as it should be jen{SE}
<priceless_whore> opps jewel`{F}
<mist{LW}> same here
<LORDWOLF> slave is meant to listen and do
<priceless_whore> i think we appreciate consistancy regardless of mood...and nothing wrong with pointing out that the sub ruined your mood either
<LORDWOLF> some where in the middle between nice guy and nasty is a good area to float
<BernieRoehl> Does anyone find that it becomes more difficult to be nasty as the relationship grows? Some Doms even go so far as to say that once you fall in love with your submissive, it's impossible to maintain the same D/s connection.
<jen{SE}> *lol*, BernieRoehl that is an entire discussion on it's own...
<priceless_whore> well that an i think everyday stress interferes..i mean who wants to be punishing someone all the time..its like kids..sometimes its easier just to let a little thing go
<mist{LW}> i think thats extremely true Bernie
<`abi> sure Bernie .... I don't think there is anything sexier in a scene, than to watch a Dom driving a submissive to her absolute limit and then leaning in to whisper something gentle in her ear ... it says 'I can only do this because I love you'.
<`abi> which also answers your other question ... no I don't think it makes it more difficult
<priceless_whore> very true abi :)...but i must say..i prefer something evil whispered in my ear..it sinks me faster...more a reminder that they can do whatever they want to it because they own it
<priceless_whore> it make me give up fighting it
<{OT}cariye> maybe when the love comes it is harder to detatch from being nasty
* `abi chuckles...I prefer the evil things to be whispered in innocent moments :)
<{OT}cariye> not from...while
<priceless_whore> if they are too nice i maintain a hope that i'll get a repreive
<X_Thomas_X> I have had trouble with this in the past. However My problems stemed from a different point of view.
<LORDWOLF> i think being 24/7 is alot diferant and must assess daily on a differant line of thought then ones who are not
<jen{SE}> is not Dominant also human, human emotions, pleasure, joy, sensuality, as well as, crabby, angry, etc... i think we have to stop making the Dominant a figure that is not Human, sets both Them and us up for disappointment
<{OT}cariye> true
<priceless_whore> good point jen{SE}...but i find the Doms are harder on themselves in that aspect then we are
<LORDWOLF> hell if i only seen mist once a week or once a month i be the nice guy one could ever imadge til i got her home alone
<X_Thomas_X> While a Dominant is Human I agree, He/She is a different breed.
<mist{LW}> true enough Master
<BernieRoehl> So do most people feel it's easy to be nice all the time or nasty all the time when it's not 24/7?
<jen{SE}> of course different and vive la difference but still Human, do they not get sick and need care, can they not hurt and need comfort a parent / friend dies etc...
<Paulslilimp> i don't think anyone can be nasty or nice all the time! 24/7 or not
<jen{SE}> when it is not 24/7 you can be what ever you want, kind of on-line, for a short period of time, we can all overlook the rest of the realities in our lives
<X_Thomas_X> I think Your going to extremes here. Either He is nice or He's not.
<X_Thomas_X> Exactly Paulslilimp
<priceless_whore> absolutly jen{SE}..but i find it is the Dom that has a harder time showing their imperfections...like we dont already know they arent perfect or something
<jen{SE}> exactly priceless_whore
<`abi> I believe it was Oscar Wilde who said it is ridiculous to divide people into good and bad...they are either interesting or tedious. Perhaps those are better classifications :)
<jen{SE}> good one abi
* BernieRoehl has always liked Oscar Wilde's take on things :-)
<LORDWOLF> but is that not some times mistaken for weakness the male ego of this dom some times gets him in trougble and has almost cost him his life by being stubbon and saying nothing is wrong
<LORDWOLF> = mr nice guy
<{OT}cariye> I think men in general have a harder time admitting weakness than most females do and harder still when they have an adoring sub looking up at them
<jen{SE}> where is the weakness in being nice, do we have to equate niceness with weakness
<X_Thomas_X> shakes head
<BernieRoehl> Not necessarily, jen, but I've known many people who do
<jen{SE}> *lol*, mmm adoring sub,,,,
* {OT}cariye grins
<X_Thomas_X> I think Y/your all looking at this from the wrong point of view.
* {OT}cariye listens to X_Thomas_X
* jen{SE} peeks over at SE after calling Him nasty names for hitting me with His canes, He probably does not see adoring sub
* mist{LW} recalls trying to bite Master after He got her a few good ones with the flogger
<arhiannah> sometimes it's easier to take a step back & say "at this moment...i'm not your adoring sub...i'm your friend and it's ok to need me more than i need you"
<Paulslilimp> or your partner arhiannah
<{OT}cariye> I agree totally
<LORDWOLF> hell girl next time will be longer a harder and master wil be quick to move out of range
<arhiannah> exactly Paulslilimp :)
<BernieRoehl> Can you expand on that a bit, X_Thomas_X? :-)
<kneels_> gheesh again
<kneels_> waves goodbye to whoredom
<fiestyone> ya right kneels
<X_Thomas_X> I think there is an underlined desire for someone to be Dominanted or to Dominate. Whether T/they admit it or not. With that in mind Y/you have to accept that to achieve that point sometimes Y/you have to be extremely nice and sometimes extremely cruel. But most of the time E/everyone else falls in the middle.
<jen{SE}> i think a Dominant must always maintain control, control is different from being nice, it takes control to be nice or nasty, He cannot relinquish control to the submissive
<`abi> or of himself jen
<jen{SE}> agreed abi
<jen{SE}> exactly X_Thomas_X, we all live in the middle most of the time, it is reality
<jen{SE}> we being the D/s world, not the vanilla world
<{OT}cariye> but do Doms not give up control if the sub is better at something .....just thinking if the sub was a bank manager then it would make sense for her to have most of the control over finances sort of thing
<jen{SE}> a person does not swing from nice to nasty every 5 minutes, most of the time we are somewhere in the middle and when needed/wanted the extremes appear
<X_Thomas_X> I may be extremely nice to a submissive one moment. Because I know I have her melting in the palm of My hand. When she doesnt respond to that I use more severe methods to once again get her full attention.
<LORDWOLF> it sometime very hard to maint control 24/7 is that what u suggest that a dom must never or can not become mr nasty or mr nice but some between
<lil`tigress{TJ}> that is a bit of an idealistic attitude if a person thinks they would not see the nasty side when living 24/7 as no one person can be nice.. or even nasty all the time.. it is against human nature
<jen{SE}> i think control can always be maintained, i always know who the top of the chain is in O/our house
<lil`tigress{TJ}> control as in the top of the chain yes.. jen. .but.. that will not stop the nasties or the niceities from happening.. regardless as life does not work that way
<jen{SE}> in a D/s 7x24 relationship, i can be in a bad mood, it is how i choose to deal with that bad mood, it is never acceptable to call SE and asshole for example just cause i'm cranky
<X_Thomas_X> I am saying that life is life. W/we all live it in a way W/we prefer. But desire , passion, sexuality, those are things Y/you cant measure as Nice or cruel as it pertains to D/s.
<Paulslilimp> very true X_Thomas_X
<LORDWOLF> butdoes that not work to the sub favour most of the time
<lil`tigress{TJ}> but what about the dominants mood .. as they are the ones that are in control of themselves.. and their sub/slave .. there will be a moment or two of snarking.. or snipping.. as it just goes against nature to not have it happen regardless of how much one loves the other
<arhiannah> shhh LORDWOLF...don't tell lol
<Sweet1`> i've heard it said the the master has the right to come home after a bad day at the office and take it out on his slave
<Paulslilimp> lol
<X_Thomas_X> Do you mean anger?
<LORDWOLF> i know my limit of being nice guy and i know how nasty i can become
<kelgura> why would the Master have that right?
<X_Thomas_X> I have a firm rule about touching other people when I am angry. I dont do it.
* lil`tigress{TJ} looks at Sweet1` hmmm take it out on.. BULLSHIT>. work it out maybe.. but take out his bad day on the sub ....
<lil`tigress{TJ}> that should not ever happen
<Sweet1`> i didn't say i agreed with it...lol, i've just heard it said
<lil`tigress{TJ}> ok. .*smiles*
<jen{SE}> i will always think twice before snapping at SE, i may mumble under my breath, get really quiet, complain to a friend, but will not bitch at SE
<X_Thomas_X> That goes for A/anyone . D/s nilla whatever
* mist{LW} had an ex who would do that, why not someone who was Dominant also
<yummy> i have always thought anger expressed phsyically was another word for abuse
<lil`tigress{TJ}> it gets said Sweet1` but. .is not true. .as well.. how many would you seriously accept that happening
<X_Thomas_X> As have I yummy
<LORDWOLF> sometimes sub has a bad day so when i would not punish her for that but try to comfort her = mr nice guy
<yummy> and for me anyone who takes out anger on me physically ......well i wouldn't be in the relationship and i'd be taking other action too
<yummy> the Dom has to have control........and hitting in anger means to me, an absense of control
<lil`tigress{TJ}> true..
<jen{SE}> depends how the bad day is expressed, slamming in the door, crabbing at You would not be appropriate, telling You she had a bad day, and is feeling a little crappy, good way
<LORDWOLF> beat her for being sick i think wil be very low = mr.nasty
* BernieRoehl notices that it's 10 pm
<lil`tigress{TJ}> that is a sick mr Nasty then..
<Sweet1`> the argument used, was that it was controlled...a controlled release of stress on the sub
<BernieRoehl> I'm going to close the discussion log, but please feel free to continue the conversation. And thanks to everyone who participated!
<yummy> controlled release yes
<yummy> but uncontrolled - no way
<dalian> great discussion Bernie!