June 19, 2005 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Can a Sub Train her Dom?". The moderator is ldy_adira. Enjoy!
<ldy_adira> Welcome E/everyone
<ldy_adira> i raised this topic came up in channel recently
<ldy_adira> please feel free to jump in with your thoughts
<faceclothbitch> what are your thoughts?
<Omy> thanks for joining MistressSarcastica, I was outnumbered ;)
<ldy_adira> i am in the process of introducing my long time (20+ yrs) husband to the lifestyle
<ldy_adira> i am sub and he is Dom
<Justice> so you first had to introduce him to the scene itself?
<ldy_adira> exactly Justice
<Justice> what steps have you taken to "bring him along"?
* Omy blinks
<ldy_adira> W/we have been talking alot about it with some play time
<ldy_adira> attended one munch
<Omy> have you suggested any books?
<ldy_adira> i have
<ldy_adira> but haven't ordered anything
<ldy_adira> i haven't been able to find them locally
<sultryspirit{OMY}> how new is this relationship ldy_adira?
<ldy_adira> we've been together almost 25 years
<Omy> you can order directly from Amazon and probably save a couple bucks
* ldy_adira nods
<ldy_adira> but what i was really wondering is "is it possible for a sub to 'train' a Dom"?
<ldy_adira> or does that go against the grain
<Omy> To "train" I think probably not without topping from the bottom.
<Achilles{a}> How do you mean, "Train"?
<Omy> However, you can "nurture" his dominance
<Achilles{a}> Teach them to be a Dom? teach them specific skills? teach them what she likes?
<sultryspirit{OMY}> this girl thinks it possible without going against the grain. It's all how you go about it
<ldy_adira> i like that "nuture" word, Omy
<sultryspirit{OMY}> agree with M'Lord Omy nurture, and top from the bottom.
<ldy_adira> i don't want to scare Him off by going too heavy into it
<Omy> well you've been together 25 years...what's the rush?
<lucy{R}> i think you can go a long way to developing a context within which his dominance is accepted in order to make him comfortable ... not sure if that really qualifies as "training"
<ldy_adira> exactly Omy
<ldy_adira> perhaps introducing is a better word than training?
<paperclip[B]> i don't think there's anything wrong with two people having a conversation about their likes/dislikes, what you'd like to try or want to avoid in future. sharing thoughts and desires isn't training, it's communication.
<ldy_adira> thank you paperclip[B] for the clarification
<paperclip[B]> :)
<Omy> Instead of training, Introduce him to some of the books. They'll plant the seed..and then your nurturing will make it grow.
<ldy_adira> the seed has been planted ;)
<`abi{A}> I think there can also be a situation where the submissive 'leads' from the bottom, typically in a situation where the bottom has more of an interest than the Top, who may be motivated by other things
<`abi{A}> sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't
* ldy_adira nods
<Omy> You have to be very careful...I've seen the dominant feel intimidated
<`abi{A}> and the bottom can end up feeling that his/her needs aren't being met ... ie. if it doesn't come from a real desire to Dominate, it can feel too much like roleplaying
<ldy_adira> exactly
<Omy> true..good points
<ldy_adira> i've been lucky in that i think i've awakened His desire to dominate
<Omy> I think if you provide him with a couple good books...Loving Dominant and The Topping Guide..come to mind and then enage in communication...you'll get the desired effect
* Omy chuckles
<ldy_adira> now that i have His interest
<ldy_adira> how do W/we move forward?
<lucy{R}> i think it also depends on what aspect of the relationship you're trying to enhance...is it the D/s or is it the S&M...or both?
<sultryspirit{OMY}> slowly ldy_adira
<ldy_adira> i think it's both lucy{R}
<ldy_adira> i'm trying sultryspirit{OMY}
<Achilles{a}> What does he want from it?
<Omy> communication is a good step...perhaps plan a weekend where it's full on.
<ldy_adira> Omy... we have a wee problem... it's called teenagers!
<paperclip[B]> lol
* sultryspirit{OMY} chuckles
<ldy_adira> Achilles{a} He is curious
<Achilles{a}> What has made him curious? What has, "caught his eye",?
<lucy{R}> IMO, getting to know others in the community can give you a variety of perspectives...there are lots of different flavours of D/s and S&M and seeing how others do things can give you plenty of springboards
<ldy_adira> but also a bit scared because he doesn't fully understand it
<Omy> We have the problem too...we solved it with something called a "sleep over" at a friends place
* lucy{R} wonders if anyone goes to sleepaway camp anymore ;)
<Achilles{a}> It's called SM'er Camp.
<lucy{R}> for the teens? eeep! ;)
<ldy_adira> thanks Omy
<ldy_adira> i'll try and ship the kids out to friends soon!
<Omy> Or ldy_adira, just tell them your going away..and find a nice little cabin someplace
<Sweet1`> what exactly is the sub trying to train a dom to do?
<ldy_adira> Achilles{a}... just knowing that it's something that interests me
<ldy_adira> seeing the pleasure i get from it
<Omy> last night, my slave in training and I wanted to go see a concert...so Friday night my niece came over for a sleepover and my brother went on a date. Saturday night it was his turn. Worked out great
* sultryspirit{OMY} smiles
<ldy_adira> :)
<Achilles{a}> So he doesn't have a direction he wants it to go in? He just wants to know where you want to go?
<ldy_adira> that's it at the moment Achilles{a}
<ldy_adira> should He have a direction?
<ldy_adira> or is it best to "test the waters" first?
<Sweet1`> are we discussing one particular dom, or is this a general subject?
<paperclip[B]> he'll find one i'm sure. the more you guys experiment etc. he'll find out where his interests lay.
<`abi{A}> the thing is, I don't believe you can 'teach' someone to want it ... either they do, or they don't
<Omy> agreed abi
<ldy_adira> this is a general subject Sweet1`
<sultryspirit{OMY}> agreed `abi{A}
<`abi{A}> if they don't, they can play at it to please you ... and that might be enough
<`abi{A}> anyone who saw Lost in Translation will remember the 'lip my stockings' scene ... that's what it's like
* lucy{R} agrees
<lucy{R}> though i think some people need so see the possibilities before they can decide whether it's something they want or not
<`abi{A}> excpet it plays out much more subtly with D/s than with S/m
<ldy_adira> is it possible that you can be somewhere in the middle?
<Achilles{a}> There is always the diference between Dominance and Topping. Dominance is more emotional and psychological. Topping is more physical and role-play and no... I'm not trying to start another Topping vs. Domming discussion. <chuckles>
<Omy> Yes ldy_adira
<`abi{A}> in the middle of what ldy_adira?
<Achilles{a}> There are always shades of gray.
<`abi{A}> not if I get to the hairdresser in time
<Achilles{a}> Can a bottom teach a Top how to server her interests? Certainly.
<Achilles{a}> *serve
<Achilles{a}> Figure out what you want to explore and discuss it. Then investigate techniques and learn as much as you can by the many routes available before trying it out.
<Achilles{a}> This way he knows what you want... he can explore how it is done with you and then you can try it together.
<Achilles{a}> Sound about right?
<ldy_adira> good advice Achilles{a}
<ldy_adira> i think You nailed it
<Achilles{a}> Don't worry about whether folks say this is the right or wrong way... figure out what is right for the two of you and enjoy it.
<Omy> explore things at first that are high on the interest scale..as he sees your reaction that will be part of the hook
<Achilles{a}> Toss the titles and labels in the bin.
<Sweet1`> or he can do what he wants as a dom and learn from experimenting what works for the dom without being 'told' what to do
<ldy_adira> Omy... that has been the way i have heightened His interest
<lucy{R}> i think a bottom should also consider the possibility that their partner may decide this isn't for them after all and discuss that as well
<Achilles{a}> That's always a possibility. BDSM can be pretty scary. It isn't for everyone and takes a lot of effort to do some things safely.
<ldy_adira> i agree lucy{R}
<Achilles{a}> If it were easy... anybody could do it and we all know that not just everybody can. But then there are many different levels of every aspect and it can be a matter of both seeing where they can go and want to go and working out a mid-point where both can be happy.
<ldy_adira> W/we feel that there is much to be gained in O/our relationship, but only if W/we do it right
<QTIP> early on, the thing i had to find my way around was my own guilt for having finally found what i wanted...that i was taught not to strike a woman, then found one who literally and specifically asked me to do so. aftercare can mean the sub caring for the Dom. open, honest talk can mean a lot
<ldy_adira> presently play parties are very intimidating for Him, is it wise to consider these at this time or perhaps later?
<ldy_adira> as a means of introducing Him to different aspects?
<QTIP> what's the scenario and what kind of intimidation?
<Achilles{a}> It should be fine to attend. Just don't go with any expectations or pressure to scene. Heck.. leave all the toys at home the first time or tow if that help.s
<toiletslave9> hello all
<`abi{A}> that rather depends on what it is about play parties that intimidates him
<`abi{A}> if he goes, is he going to leave feeling more or less intimidated?
<ldy_adira> He's been to one play party and left feeling more intimidated
<Achilles{a}> That's true... is seeing double-flogging or single tail scenes going to make him feel it is hopeless and he can never do that? It can leave him with unanticipated and unachievable ambitions and perceived expectations.
<`abi{A}> or just that feeling that this simply isn't 'him' ... when it's really only a small part of what BDSM is about
<ldy_adira> it had to do more with partners swapping that bothered Him, not so much the S&M play that bothered Him
<`abi{A}> so, why go there if it's going to discourage rather than encourage him
<Omy> personally ldy_adira, I'd hold off on the play parties and stick with munches
<Achilles{a}> He is worried if you get involved in the community there will be an expecation that you will want to scene with others? Is there something that has caused him to believe this would be true or is he just generally insecure about the concept without cause?
<toiletslave9> hello all
<toiletslave9> any Dommes looking for a male toilet PM me
<ldy_adira> at this point W/we don't know about the lifestyle
* lucy{R} blinks...huh
<paperclip[B]> lol
<QTIP> ldy_adira, is it enough to just begin with bedroom bdsm and see what comes from that?
<Achilles{a}> Don't.. know. No problem. It's your life. It can be whatever you want it to be. Go where you both want... don't go where you both don't want.
* ldy_adira nods
<paperclip[B]> just so you know ldy_adira...not all "swap parnters" whether it be play or more.
<Achilles{a}> So, perhaps, keeping away from parties until some of that has solidifeid IS a good plan.
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<`abi{A}> 'the lifestyle' encompasses many things. It all comes down to whether or not you have compatible interests. How far down the path you can travel together is something you can't know until you start walking it. There are no money-back guarantees
<Achilles{a}> The topic kind of flowed away from a general discussion of subs nurturing Dominants into a closer study of how ldy_adira can encourage her partner to progress into BDSM with here. That takes a lot of guts and I think it's great that she is willing to look for answers in a resource like this.
<ldy_adira> thank Y/you all for the insightful conversation
<Omy> Thanks for being the example ldy_adira that we put the magnifying glass too
<sultryspirit{OMY}> agree
<Achilles{a}> ldy_adira.. you AND your husband need to be looking for answers together and find something that works for the both of you. It's going to take time and patience and it's going to take a helluva lot of communication. Best of luck. Really.
<ldy_adira> thank You Achilles{a}
<ldy_adira> i really appreciate Y/you all taking the time out of Y/your evening to express your views on tonight's topic.
<ldy_adira> even if it did stray a bit ;)
* Achilles{a} has taken in a few strays in His time
<Achilles{a}> Besides... it flowed. See, up there where I said that? Flowed.
* ldy_adira nods
<ldy_adira> not too bad for my first time?
<ldy_adira> lol
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informally. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to ldy_adira for moderating, and to everyone who participated.
<Achilles{a}> Not bad. Keep polishing.