June 9, 2002 EhBC Online Discussion

<BernieRoehl> I've set an automatic message that reads as follows....
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using twisted.ma.us.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion has no set topic, so please feel free to ask about anything! The moderator is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<jewel`{F}> Sir even
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol
<DarkAngel^{rt}> damn tigger ,, you pick JUST when I cantrespond too
<lil_kitten> no topic? how interesting lol
<DarkAngel^{rt}> so what is tonights discusion on ?
* jewel`{F} smiles sweetly
<DarkAngel^{rt}> can we talk about your nice butt then lil_kitten ? ....
* DarkAngel^{rt} <--- Butt Man
<BernieRoehl> Whatever we want to discuss
* jewel`{F} thought DA was a tit man
* BernieRoehl agrees that would be a good topic
<DarkAngel^{rt}> nope jewel`{F} ,, breasts are great ,,, but I am really a butt man
<lil_kitten> oh, my butt is getting less nice by the week lately
<DarkAngel^{rt}> good for you lil_kitten ,, werking hard ?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> self immage is very important
<lil_kitten> yeah, but not in a physical sense
* lil_kitten thinks about topics
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Mmm ok, well I "think" about werking out too ,,,lol
* BernieRoehl notices that without a topic, fewer people come out to the discussion :-)
* lil_kitten has written to many e-mails latepy - I've exhausted my mental topic pool
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Mmmm how about the topic of ,,,,,,, damn ,, we already talked about butts
<DarkAngel^{rt}> me too lil_kitten,,, really need a dose of R/L
<BernieRoehl> I can dip into the list of topics for future weeks
<jewel`{F}> it may not be for tonight Bernie but i have heard more and more people talking about Mentors and Trainers for new people to the lifestyle it may be something to talk about in future Sir
<Namons> how about the myths and misconceptions of munches and what one can expect when attending one?
<BernieRoehl> I think that's a fine topic, jewel`{F}
<lil_kitten> didn't we just talk about that?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> interesting subject jewel`{F} ,, many feel I am Mental
<Namons> i know many that stay away simply because they worry about not fitting in or that it will be too much at once for them....
<BernieRoehl> Has anyone here been in a mentoring relationship, either as mentor as the one being mentored
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Oh ,, Mentoring ,,, uhh ,, nevermind
<DarkAngel^{rt}> *evil wink*
<jewel`{F}> it was an online relationship but i was being Mentored for awhile
<jewel`{F}> i still talk to that Domme sometimes when i am feeling uncertain about somethings
<DarkAngel^{rt}> we can always talk about our hidden kinks
<BernieRoehl> What was it like for you, jewel`{F}?
<jewel`{F}> Bernie it was very helpful,
<lil_kitten> I think mentoring can have it's good points, but it's often a pretty one-sided intro to BDSM
<lil_kitten> (not that jumping into a relationship is any less one-sided)
<jewel`{F}> She helped me to realize what i was looking for in a relationship
<jewel`{F}> i think that many misunderstand what Mentoring is now
<jewel`{F}> they think that it involves play and it doesn't shouldn'
<BernieRoehl> How would you define it, jewel`{F}
<jewel`{F}> t
<DarkAngel^{rt}> well jewel`{F} ,, what Mentoring is ,, is whatever 2 people make it ,,, not what others think ,,,
<janizz> evening Aall
<CaRoLe{George}> #ping bdsm-kw
<CaRoLe{George}> dang
<jewel`{F}> for a sub the Mentor can be a sub or a Dom/me someone to help the new sub learn, and find themselves and what they are looking for
* lil_kitten thinks mentoring should be done by subs for subs and by Dom/mes for Dom/mes
<jewel`{F}> true DA
* Namons concurs with lil_kitten
<`abi> I'm not so sure lil_kitten ... I think that a submissive who is a 'friend' can give a Dom valuable insight
<DarkAngel^{rt}> certainly one way to look at it lil_kitten ,,, a good point
<jewel`{F}> but unfourtunately there are some Doms that use it as an easy way to use a new sub
<DarkAngel^{rt}> HNG's come with small as well as Capital nicks
<jewel`{F}> i do too lil_kitten i was just lucky enough to have a Domme that helped me and has become a good friend as well
<CaRoLe{George}> not to start a verbal fist fight, but have any of the Dom/mes in the room ever had a mentor? sub or Dom/me? would You consider it?
<lil_kitten> well, true - just my opinion, but for example - a Dom doesn't know the ins and outs of being on the bottom like a bottom does - anything they really know about that kind of experience has probably come from other bottoms/subs!
<naughtyvickie> not unless they were a bottom once themselves
<DarkAngel^{rt}> true naughtyvickie
<lil_kitten> true, but most weren't, and of those I know who were, most aren't comfortable talking about it - hurts their Dom image and such
<jewel`{F}> and they wouldn't want to do that ......lol
<CaRoLe{George}> there was a time you weren't allowed to call yourself a Master until you'd served as a submissive.
* jen{SE} went into training for 3 months
<jewel`{F}> just my humble opinion i do think that all those new to the lifestyle would benifit from a mentoring system
<jen{SE}> which is different than mentoring because it is Dominant training submissive
<janizz> what does that mean jen?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> only one calls me Master ,, all others are welcome to say "hey you"
<lil_kitten> is training mentoring though?
<jen{SE}> it is and it isn't
<jewel`{F}> Dom/me's for those that feel they are Dominants and submissives for the submissives
<jen{SE}> when the training is just that training, not a relationship, no intimacy
<janizz> what were you trained in jen?
<CaRoLe{George}> like in the Story of O?
<CaRoLe{George}> Roissy?
<lil_kitten> well, mentoring is supposed to be like being a guide and role model - to show you what it's like to be "whatever" instead of teaching you how to be "whatever"
<jen{SE}> no, protocal, rituals, behavior
<jen{SE}> service
<naughtyvickie> where did u get this training jen{SE}?
<jen{SE}> i find submissives tend to be mentors in a natural way, discussion, talking, etc... it happens in a very infomal way on a regular basis
<jen{SE}> from a Domiant friend of SE's and other people i know
<BernieRoehl> Was the training focussed on anything specific, jen?
<jen{SE}> *lol*, my grammer needs work on that line,,, i only had one Trainer, The Trainer was a friend of some of my friends
<Namons> I would think a mentor would be one to show options... not explore them... but simply show them they exist and let them decide what to do with it...
<jen{SE}> mostly protocal and the psychological aspects of submission
<jen{SE}> exactly Namons
<jewel`{F}> that is what my understanding of one is Namons
<Namons> find what you want and get a trainer *smiles*
<jewel`{F}> they are also there to talk to with questions that you have
<jen{SE}> i find Dominants seem to avoid the mentoring of each other unless they are friends then they react much the same as submissives, discussion over wine etc..
<greenLeo> greetings A/all, sorry I'm late.
<jen{SE}> oops, not to say Dominants "act" like submissives *grins*
<greenLeo> No topic in particular tonight?
<BernieRoehl> Nothing specific, greenLeo, though at the moment we're talking about mentoring/training
<greenLeo> or has one developed?
<greenLeo> Thanks Bernie
* jen{SE} has to go, night
<BernieRoehl> See you, jen
<BernieRoehl> So... anyone have other topics they'd like to explore?
<naughtyvickie> i know as someone who is new to the lifestyle it is a scary thing to get into without knowing what u are doing
<jewel`{F}> Namons had asked about munches and ways to let people that haven't been feel more comfortable about coming out to them
<BernieRoehl> That's true, naughtyvickie
<Namons> i've heard going to your first munch is rather scary <G>
<greenLeo> I agree with naughtyvickie, being recently involved myself, over the opast two years it has been a daunting thing sometimes
<DarkAngel^{rt}> it is scarry naughtyvickie ,, scary since once you have tasted the forbidden friut ,,, you cant go back
* jewel`{F} agrees with DA
<BernieRoehl> I think that's important, jewel`{F} (and Namons). Going to that first munch is a big step for a lot of people, and it might be interesting to brainstorm a bit on ways to make it easier for them
* jewel`{F} hasn't missed a munch since my first time out
<naughtyvickie> thats true you can't........and i don't want to
* DarkAngel^{rt} <--- Munch Slut
<greenLeo> I am going to my second munch on Monday, and I'm excited, but I also know people from events
<arhiannah> those were some big steps up to DV8 my first time out...lol
<Namons> they have them at DV8?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> kewl greenLeo ,,, Mmmmm you have been to more than one munch already ,,, havent you ?
<arhiannah> not any more Namons
<jewel`{F}> myself i think that the best way to describe one is to say it is like a ball team going out for a drink and dinner after a game
<naughtyvickie> it will be my first and i too am excited but also scary
<arhiannah> they're held at the Mongolian Grill now
<DarkAngel^{rt}> not for ages Namons
<greenLeo> I think chatting online is great to meet people first, and the email list is good too.
<BernieRoehl> Is that the one in London, greenLeo?
<Namons> ah damn.. I used to go to the lil bar beside it there
* DarkAngel^{rt} clears his throat ,,, and points out the loggin in process, , pls refrain from mentioning businesses
<greenLeo> Nope, just one in KW last year.
<greenLeo> yes
<arhiannah> woops...sorry DA
<BernieRoehl> You'll find that it's a very relaxed atmosphere, naughtyvickie
<BernieRoehl> A lot of us who are here in channel right now will be there (myself and DA, for example)
<DarkAngel^{rt}> unintentional I am sure arhiannah ,,, but with things that are happening to events in the states of late ,,,, we are trying to keep things safe here
<naughtyvickie> i am glad of that but not really knowing what happens can make a person nervous
<arhiannah> indeed
* jewel`{F} whispers to naughtyvickie you thought that cinds and i hugged you alot yesterday wait till tomorrow, Bernie and DA are hug sluts
* greenLeo declares that Bernie is a people addict, and will make you feel totally at home.
* BernieRoehl smiles
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol ,, worry not naughtyvickie ,, I only hug those that want hugs ,,, and never on first meeting
* naughtyvickie whispers to jewel thats ok i love hugs
<naughtyvickie> well can we pretend its the second one then Sir *winks*
* jewel`{F} hopes that Bernie has hug for her tomorrow night, or she might have to sneak up on Him and tickle Him
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol
<greenLeo> DA, you don't hug on first date? I'm dissapointed in you.
* DarkAngel^{rt} is a very shy guy
<arhiannah> lol
* BernieRoehl smiles
* jewel`{F} coughs
<BernieRoehl> I'll have lots of hugs for you tomorrow, jewel`{F} :-)
* naughtyvickie wonders if he would make an exception
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol
* naughtyvickie smiles
* DarkAngel^{rt} 's youngest was sic today ,,, and a slight headache here ,, so might be less huggy than normal
<jewel`{F}> youngest have You hugged out Sir?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> no jewel`{F} ,, but if she has the flu ,, many might not appreciate a hug ,,lol ,, in the long run
<BernieRoehl> That's actually an interesting topic -- are people in the BDSM community more affectionate with each other than people in most other social groups?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I have heard that BernieRoehl ,,,,
<naughtyvickie> i think they are
<jewel`{F}> seriously it really is just like a get together of old friends or team mates or co workers enjoying an evening out
<Namons> I think the nature of the common ground promotes it... but it is everywhere... just its more or less random with friends and others getting together... like co-workers
<jewel`{F}> i think that we are Bernie
<naughtyvickie> i get more hugs from this group then i do from my vanilla friends
<greenLeo> I think the shared intimacy of play enhances the affection we feel and show.
<greenLeo> I never hug any of my co-workers.
<BernieRoehl> I never hug any of greenLeo's co-workers either :-)
<naughtyvickie> i get hugs at work but only from the children
<Achilles{tr}> Not sure how definite You can be about that, BernieRoehl. You hug a lotta people without reviewing their resumes.
<greenLeo> That because they can be smelly
<jewel`{F}> i think also because we are and have to be very open and honest in our communitcations that we are more trustful of each other and more secure in ourselves to be able to show our feelings for our friends
<BernieRoehl> Good point, Achilles{tr}! :-)
<greenLeo> Well, a post on the Ehbc list about hugs sure raised the roof regarding unwanted touching, so I think that may be a sore point for some people.
<jewel`{F}> that is true too greenLeo but if one reads body language and doesn't just hug randomly i think one is save
<BernieRoehl> It's usually pretty clear when someone wants to be hugged, and when they don't
<jewel`{F}> DA will vouch for me i will ask permission for a hug or come right out and ask for one with out the permisson
<naughtyvickie> maybe asking permission
* naughtyvickie loves hugs pass it on hehe
<DarkAngel^{rt}> actually jewel`{F} ,,, I hug just cause it feels good ,,, and I am a perv
* candie never refuses a hug
<greenLeo> I agree, and I love hugs, but I don't hug everybody. Some folks I don't even know why we don't hug, but the signs aren't there.
<jewel`{F}> i will stand and put my arms up and wait for the person to respond
<jewel`{F}> DA but i do ask You first if i can have one sometimes if You haven't offered one that is
<greenLeo> The only people I hug without a cue first are my closest friends and family.
<Namons> Me I'm weird about hugs when I don't know people....
<DarkAngel^{rt}> and most I also ask jewel`{F} ,,, some just make a hug motion ,, and that is considdered concent ,, since both know what is comming
<jewel`{F}> yup
<BernieRoehl> And there's sort of a social protocol -- approach the person with open arms, and if their arms go up too, then you hug -- otherwise you don't
<DarkAngel^{rt}> same here Namons ,,, I never hug till I have met them before
<DarkAngel^{rt}> yup BernieRoehl
<DarkAngel^{rt}> but we had better not mention the secret handshake and password
* jewel`{F} would be hurt now if i didn't get hugs from DA or Bernie or arhiannah
* BernieRoehl smiles
<greenLeo> I wonder if some people would feel that rejecting someone who has open arms would be rude, therefore go through with the hug anyway?
* arhiannah is generally a hug-friendly type person...but there are times i just don't feel like it...and i'm sure my body language displays that fact...
<justagrrl^> yes i know i do
<DarkAngel^{rt}> not me greenLeo ,,, if I dont want to hug the person ,, I can not be forced *evil smile*
<arhiannah> lol...really DA? ;)
* jewel`{F} giggles
<DarkAngel^{rt}> very very raire arhiannah
* jewel`{F} can see a subbie group ganging up on DA now
<DarkAngel^{rt}> actually ,, speeking of non-consentual ,, only time I was REALLY taken by surprise ,, and semi flipped ,, was at an event ,, a sub started running her fingers thru my hair
<Achilles{tr}> Run DA! Run now!.... No, no, no... the OTHER way DA!! :)
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol
<DarkAngel^{rt}> hey hey ,, the topic isnt "lets pick on poor old ugly DA"
<arhiannah> awwww..yer not old DA
<greenLeo> Anyway, that is really just splitting hairs, the cues are subtle but there, and good huggers know and respect them. It's people who are using a hug for some other purpose than to share a warm fuzzy that are the problem I suppose. They need the EDUCATION.
* DarkAngel^{rt} tried to hide his boner better ,, next time he hugs greenLeo
<arhiannah> lol
<greenLeo> Boners are under the warm fuzzy category DA
<DarkAngel^{rt}> no greenLeo ,,,LOL,, I shave
<arhiannah> rofl
* jewel`{F} bites her tongue
<arhiannah> warm stubbly then?
* DarkAngel^{rt} winks ,,,,, LOL
<arhiannah> i said stubbly....not stubby
<greenLeo> rotfl
<DarkAngel^{rt}> been shaved ever since I had my circumsision ,,, nicer feel
<greenLeo> I said under the warm fuzzy, you have chest hair do you not?
* DarkAngel^{rt} looks down ,, yup ,, grey stuff
* arhiannah prefers the shaved look....nothing worse than stopping mid blowjob and "ptooey"
<arhiannah> lol
<Achilles{tr}> Certainly the consent of touch has seen a lot of discussion. Hugging. Hair tugging. Back rubs. Even gropes. Some folks have made major faux pas in assuming they could do these things to people who were not ready to share them. Seeing someone do that to someone else doesn't mean s/he is open to that from everybody.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I agree Achilles{tr} ,,, and some see others ,, not realizing there was concent ,, and feel it is open to all
<Achilles{tr}> Exactly DA. W/we all have to negotiate for ourselves.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I have a sub friend ,, she gets grumpy ,, but before each event ,, I make her give me permission ,, since she wants me to grope her ,,,, she finally realizes I need consent ,, and it isnt a game to me
<greenLeo> Then it is up to the person recieving the touch to make boundaries clear, and not accept the assault to use as complaint later.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> but at a past event ,, I caught myself ,, giving her the wanted attention ,,, I realized I was doing so in front of someone who didnt understand ,, so I asked her to clarify
<Achilles{tr}> Isn't it more a mutual thing greenLeo? A sort of dance to get the permission in some way and grant it without stepping over boundaries? A failure to communicate can be from either side but should be addressed right away... most certainly.
<arhiannah> exactly greenLeo...good point
<greenLeo> If I for some reason read a situation wrong, I want to know right then so I can make it right and apologise.
* DarkAngel^{rt} takes consent very seriously ,, it is so much better ,, and Ialso like formality
<greenLeo> I agree that the dance is there and most of the time we follow, but if a misstep occurs, it is best if it is corrected immediately.
<Achilles{tr}> Definitely agreed greenLeo. Don't let such missteps fester and grow into greater misunderstandings.
<BernieRoehl> Well, by my watch we have less than five minutes left in tonight's discussion
<BernieRoehl> Anyone have anything they'd like to add?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> damn ,,, well lets get the topic back on boobies then
<Achilles{tr}> I'm for them.
<Namons> I second that
<Achilles{tr}> Advanced and seconded? All in favour?
<Namons> Aye!!
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I would like to add //////// go to http://www.snow-bound.ca to see more about Canada's Huge BDSM Conferance scheduled for April 11 - 13th of 2003
<greenLeo> A situation I often find myself in is giving attention to someone who desires it, and probing a little to see if I can go farther, with my words and actions. I would be mortified if I found out after the fact that I wasn't given the indication to stop or slow down, but the person bhas a complaint that I cannot fix now.
<greenLeo> Oh, yeah boobies
<Namons> so is the sunday kitchener ehbc munch at that filthy place?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol
* BernieRoehl laughs
<Namons> mmmm boobies...
<BernieRoehl> Yup, Philthy McNasty's
<Namons> never been... should be interesting...
<arhiannah> hi SkyDom :)
<SkyDom> Hi, all
<Namons> male version of the SkyDome?
<SkyDom> Something like that......it's actually an aviator thing....:)
<DarkAngel^{rt}> brb
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's now 9 pm
<Namons> well that works too...
<greenLeo> 10 pm eastern standard
<BernieRoehl> I'm going to close the log now. Please feel free to continue chatting informally.
* arhiannah chuckles...you move time zones Bernie?
<SkyDom> I'll try to be informal, Bernie
<jewel`{F}> thank You Bernie
<BernieRoehl> Sorry, *10* pm :-)
* BernieRoehl smiles
<jewel`{F}> arhiannah will you be at the munch tomorrow?
<greenLeo> He's turning back the clock to get more goodnight hugs
<arhiannah> sure will jewel`{F}
<jewel`{F}> going early for dinner of just in time for the munch?
<arhiannah> probably just the munch jewel`{F}...lackage of fundage ;)
<jewel`{F}> it is going to feel strange not having dinner with oasis first
<jewel`{F}> oh me too on that one
<BernieRoehl> I'm going to go process and upload the log
<BernieRoehl> Thanks everyone for participating in the discussion!