June 3 2001 EhBC Online Discussion
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using twisted.ma.us.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion topic is "Introducing new people to the scene". The moderator tonight is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
* BernieRoehl smiles
<DarkAngel^{rt}> our topic for tonight will be:
<DarkAngel^{rt}> "Bringing them Across -- introducing new people to the scene"
<DarkAngel^{rt}> kewl
<BernieRoehl> So, I guess it's that time...
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I met a young new submissive to London just yesterday
<BernieRoehl> Excellent, DA
<BernieRoehl> Does she seem keen?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> that she does ,, I gave her addy's for the ehbc.ca and dssg.org sites as full of good info
<`TimberWolf> hm back to back no frog man.hmmmmmmmm
<`TimberWolf> and good evening all
<DarkAngel^{rt}> not to mention chewing her out for meeting me ,, and explaining ways to safely meet prospective Doms
* BernieRoehl smiles
<Milan^> is it uinsafe to meet people? Isn't that a tad condescending?
<BernieRoehl> So... who here has had the experience of taking an interested newbie from zero experience to slightly-greater-than-zero experience?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I do find the various group web sirtes to be very valuable for new people to get good basic info o the lifestyle
<BernieRoehl> It's not necessarily unsafe, Milan, but there are some safety tips we try to pass on to newbies to keep them from getting into bad situations
* TruDomme raises Her hand
<DarkAngel^{rt}> it can be Milan^ ...
<BernieRoehl> And how did it go, tru?
<TruDomme> very well Bernie :)
<BernieRoehl> What do you think made it work well, tru?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> exactly BernieRoehl ,,, and any Dom/me who is offended for a sub who uses safe calls ect. isnt practicing SS&C ,, not to mention isnt respecting the subs level of comfort
<TruDomme> going slow, talking to the newbie softly and reassurringly
<DarkAngel^{rt}> good point TruDomme
<BernieRoehl> I gather from your nick that the newbie is a sub, T/tru?
<TruDomme> yes Bernie
* TruDomme smiles
<DarkAngel^{rt}> interesting point ,, I find newbie Doms more of a responsibility to pass on info than a new sub
<TruDomme> why is that DarkAngel^{rt}?
<BernieRoehl> I think that's true, DA -- a novice Dom is more of a hazard to others than a newbie sub
<Sly_Scotian> I would agree with that DA
<DarkAngel^{rt}> one you pass on to anouthers control ,,, the other ,, you pass on to TAKE control
<TruDomme> what I consider is that I have been, and am still sometimes, a submissive person
<TruDomme> I draw on that experience to make Me a better Dominant
<DarkAngel^{rt}> a responsibility I am nervous of ,, but this community took me in and helped me along ,, I feel a debt
* DarkAngel^{rt} tries to pass on his little info ,, only to those who ask and want to know
<BernieRoehl> I feel exactly the same way, DA. I remember how people helped me get started, many years ago, and I feel like I'm balancing the scales a bit by helping others.
<TruDomme> what i have found though is that Dominants are assumed in their role whereas submissives are nurtured into it
<DarkAngel^{rt}> dito BernieRoehl
<DarkAngel^{rt}> how so assumed TruDomme
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I notice that a new Dom is either ignored or laughed at ,,, whereas a new sub is swamped ,,,,lol
<TruDomme> "oh yeah, He looks like a Dom" is a comment I have heard in the shadows more then once
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ahh ok TruDomme ,, yes, I have heard that myself
<TruDomme> i have already noticed that some do not take seriously this new part of me
<BernieRoehl> It's certainly difficult for new Doms, especially when it comes to finding partners who are willing to play with someone with less experience.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> like I just said TruDomme ,,, you are where we all were at the begining ,,, just stand tall,, ask questions, learn and grow
<TruDomme> as a submissive, I was on a search for a purpose, as a Dominant I feel I am still on that search only with a different path
<TruDomme> thank You DarkAngel^{rt} :)
<Sly_Scotian> I think it is a way to come to gripps with ones new lifestyle. When I discuss BDSM with some of my close friends I feel more comfortable with it.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> yw TruDomme
<BernieRoehl> So... what's the best way to nurture a new Dom?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> it is good to know others were where you are now ,, and that is actually a big relief to many newbies
<DarkAngel^{rt}> most (well me and others I have chatted with) feel they are alone
<DarkAngel^{rt}> well BernieRoehl ,,, I like exposing people to the community ,, Munches are the best
<TruDomme> part of the confusion for me now is still having a need to serve another, yet feel a strong pull toward Dominating another
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Play Parties like DAL LANO and Bombay are ,,Mmmm maybe too much,, too soon
<TruDomme> I think DA, that at one time or another, we have all felt alone
<DarkAngel^{rt}> compartmentalize TruDomme
<TruDomme> explain please DA
<Milan^> i'm confused here... are we talking about those already exposed to power exchange in some small way who have shown an interest to learn more, or total nilla folk who we might choose to discuss with, to see if they are interested.
<firestarDC> yes I agree that the parties are too much too quick when you are new
<DarkAngel^{rt}> just like when coming home from a hard day at work ,,, shake it off,, and assume the relaxin w/e mode
* TruDomme smiles
<TruDomme> ok
<DarkAngel^{rt}> both Milan^
<DarkAngel^{rt}> yes firestarDC, ,,, I have seen the big eyes,, uh oh,, what have I gotten myself into stares ,,,lol
<TruDomme> Milan^, I think we are talking about people completely new to bdsm AND those who have been interested or experienced little play
<Milan^> i see.
<BernieRoehl> I think the initial focus is the former, Milan^ -- people who have shown an interest in getting involved
<DarkAngel^{rt}> my last slave WAS a nilla ,, I slowly exposed her to some kink ,, she liked ,, reacted well,, I took her at her own pace
<Milan^> completely different approaches needed imo. Nillas should be exposed perhaps in a off-hand approach, emphasizing the casual kink fun that can lead to much more among some folk.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> after that ,,, they can be shown/exposed as the same as anyone who does show that innitial interest
<TruDomme> i know what it's like to show up at my first public play party as a submissive, just how terrified I was with the thoughts of "OMG, what have i really gotten myself into?!"
<DarkAngel^{rt}> there you go TruDomme
<Dea_Miranda> back!
<firestarDC> agrees with TruDomme, had the exact same thoughts here
<DarkAngel^{rt}> now put yourself into the shoes of the first sub YOU bring to a PP
<TruDomme> so in this new role of Dominant, I can gently introduce a new submissive to the world of play, public and private
<DarkAngel^{rt}> but you thought it over ,, and came to the next one as well firestarDC
<TruDomme> exactly DA
<DarkAngel^{rt}> empathy is a big part
<Milan^> play parties are way way way down the list of "must do's" to newbies. imo.
<TruDomme> the submissive I have been talking to is not new to bdsm, but is fairly new to public play...we will work towards it slowly
<DarkAngel^{rt}> always a personal hurtle for each new person in the lifestyle Milan^ ,,,, each goes at their own pace
<Milan^> that is what i said.... imo.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> now ,, how about when a newbie asks to be exposed to a certain type of edge play ?
* DarkAngel^{rt} hey ,, can you set me on fire ?
<TruDomme> "baby steps", encourage them to slow down
<BernieRoehl> That happens sometimes, DA -- especially if they've been fantasizing about BDSM for a while, one of their fantasies may have "crystalized" and that's the main thing they're looking for.
<nimeesha> i don't think i would have liked having my first DAL to have been my introduction to BDSM...i think i would have been terrified that someone was getting hurt and worse that i was next!..i think playparties are something to work up to.
<Milan^> I would invoke "The Brilliance of Common Sense: in that case.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> no TruDomme ,,, I mean when they are ready to explore now ,,, and ask it
<goddess_on_her_knees> you would direct her to the right people/information/education...then if she still wishes to...set her on fire...i have always wanted to be...even when i was new...and STILL want to...and STILL havent done it!
<TruDomme> what about being right by their side as they watch another demonstration....or checking the workshop series to see what's coming up?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> the "next stage in teaching/helping a newbie"
<Milan^> a newbie asking for fireplay by way of example, would strike me as an adrenalin junkie type, and would soon bore me of nurturing much more than "play safe, have fun".
<DarkAngel^{rt}> WORKSHOPS ,, EXCELENT POINT
<DarkAngel^{rt}> cap lock,, damn point
<TruDomme> how about "networking" with another Dominant?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> but Milan^ ,,, we are ALL newbies for some play we have never tried ,,,
<BernieRoehl> But the emphasis worked well, DA! :-)
<TruDomme> it does indeed!
<DarkAngel^{rt}> but oops
<Stevius> Bernie, I think you mentioned an important point: most newbies have probably been living inside their heads, and have a well developed fantasy life
* DarkAngel^{rt} hasent tried fireplay ,, but wants to ,, so I am a newbie
<Stevius> getting to reality is a big step
<BernieRoehl> Yes, Milan^ -- there are adrenaline junkies, but some (maybe even many) of them can move past that and explore the more subtle nuances.
<BernieRoehl> Yes, Stevius -- an initially, they may find the reality quite different from what they had going on in their head. It can be quite a transition for some of them.
<yummier> my first step out the door was last december and was going to a munch. I think opening the door of the bar where the munch was being held was one of the hardest things I have ever done
<Milan^> adrenalin junkies come in all forms... some are skydivers... some like edge play. I just happen to think power exchange can offer so much more, so nurturing that type of interest would bore me, and there are lots of people who could make good on their desires.
<goddess_on_her_knees> has always wanted to be set on fire....and has never been accused of being boring Milan^...perhaps i just know what i want?
<yummier> my firs fet night was a lot easier than that - at least I wasn't by myself
<DarkAngel^{rt}> the community in our case realy helps us as individuals to help newbies along ,,, this is one reason our community grows as it does
<Milan^> just expressing personal opinion here folk. not making judgements or acussatory remarks. Not my intention, please excuse me if my comments are taken that way.
<TruDomme> movies, books adn third party stories tend to embellish what really happens with some types of play.....so having a compassionate, understanding person with you as a newbie could be very beneficial
* BernieRoehl nods
* DarkAngel^{rt} was alone his first Munch ,, alone his first PP ,, but people helped me,, made me feel welcome
<BernieRoehl> No problem at all, Milan^!
<yummier> I've met no-one who hasn't been very helpful - if anything there was too much advise
* BernieRoehl smiles
<`TimberWolf> lol yummier
<DarkAngel^{rt}> certainly not Milan^ ,,, welcome comments indeed
<goddess_on_her_knees> i also enjoys many subtleties of D/s and bdsm...as well as the rush Milan...i am not trying to argue with you..just saying i have wanted to be set on fire forever..doesnt mean i didnt know what i wanted 10 years ago
<yummier> my head was swimming with suggestions/ advice /cautions
<BernieRoehl> So you have to pick and choose, yummier :-)
<TruDomme> my first munch was on my birthday, my best friend took me....i was terrified, unsure what kinds of people i was going to meet, or whether or not i'd just sit in a corner watching
<yummier> well now I can start too but when you are new its hard to know the bias of the advise giver
<DarkAngel^{rt}> and we didnt bite TruDomme
<DarkAngel^{rt}> well ok, some of us did
<TruDomme> i met several people who have become and remained good friends over those last 3 years
* TruDomme smiles
<`TimberWolf> Da didn't bite???? he must have been ill that munch
<kneels> accckkk...forgot the nick change
<dalian> i was beyond nervous when i went to my first munch, but everyone was very friendly...yet i still chose to sit back in the corner...i don't do that now though
* BernieRoehl chuckles
<Milan^> i'm happy to set a goddess on fire. <wink>
<TruDomme> now I feel I am ready to be there in some way to others
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol,, they didnt let me dalian ,,
* TruDomme still sits in the corner
<TruDomme> lol
<BernieRoehl> So.... if someone comes to you and says "hey, I know you're in to kinky stuff... I want to get started. Can you help me?"... what is the best sequence of things to do?
<BernieRoehl> Start with pointing them to websites and books, of course, and invite them to a munch... but beyond that, what's the next step?
<TruDomme> first ask what they consider kinky
<kneels> lol Milan^...but a good point is...i have always wanted to be..yet have not met One with the knowledge to do it safely...i think subs new or not...have to take responsibility for themselves in this lifestyle
* DarkAngel^{rt} wanders each munch he is framiliar with ,,, meeting every person ,, just to make sure a newbie doesnt escape with sitting in the corner
<yummier> I'd say go to a munch and suggest they meet people
<DarkAngel^{rt}> hey ,, I met my pressent slave when she hesitated at the top of the stairs at the London Munch ,, took her over to meet 3 or 4 people ,, then left her to go scope out the equipment for the next DAL
* TruDomme feels munches are the easiest 'first step' to introduction
<DarkAngel^{rt}> definetly TruDomme ,,, Munches are very vanilla safe ,,, no fete wear ,, no flogging ect
<BernieRoehl> Yes, the munches do work well. But I know for some newbies, the jump from munches to parties is pretty scary -- almost as scary as going to that first munch, if not more so
* TruDomme is the social butterfly at munches in London, to give Bernie a well deserved break from the job :)
<Milan^> correct knees... all have to take responsibility. But I understood the topic top be "bringing across newbies"... so my comments are in that context, not referable to subs or doms with many yrs experience wanting to try something new.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ease in ,,, meet a few who become "framiliar faces"
* BernieRoehl smiles at Tru
<kneels> i would like to comment though...new to the scene doesnt always mean "newbie" to bdsm...and it does sometimes get annoying that people assume you are...i have always had that problem in the scene...and still do
<Stevius> DA pointed out that the experience of a new would-be Dom is much different than a new sub, at least as far as the reactions to them go....so I am guessing that the specific steps are different for each
<kneels> even newbies Milan^....should still be responsible for their own safety i think
<DarkAngel^{rt}> the feeling of responsibility to myself seems more Stevius ,,, seems more,,, but to both ,, it comes down to letting them feel safe so THEY can explore safely and decide if it is for them
* BernieRoehl nods
<Milan^> agreed kneels. Ergo my comment much earlier that chatising a newbie sub for improper safety procedures seems condescending. That assumes many thing, not the least of which is the abdication by the dominant for assuming control of safety, and arranging it himself for both parties.
<Stevius> kneels, are you are separating out bdsm from the scene...ie one can be into bdsm, but not into the scene, is that correct?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> the newbie ,, IS having a PERSONAL journey ,,, we can only help them, as they learn about themselves ... maybe ,, as Milan^ pointed out ,, they preffer the fantacy
<DarkAngel^{rt}> true kneels ,,, but they might not be aware of dangers ,,, that we,,, might help them by pointing out
<TruDomme> assumptions are a kneejerk reaction to uncertainy I think, when someone is nervous whether it be attending something for the first time or anticipating meeting somebody new
<kneels> yes Stevius....i had been into bdsm for years before the scene...yet people can at times assume you know nothing...especially since i dont play publically...(or with them) so comments can be annoying at times
<`TimberWolf> oh kneels that is just cause you are sweet and cute and eveyone automatically wants to take care of the lil girl:)
<DarkAngel^{rt}> who are newbies here tonight ?.. we might have overlooked the internet in newbies exposure
<kneels> oh absolutly DarkAngel^{rt}..better to go with caution..to offer info...but i think "some" get holier then though about it....thats all i meant
<Dea_Miranda> me :)
* DarkAngel^{rt} holds up his hand ,, uhhh I am a newbie
<TruDomme> to what DA? *S*
<bluechick^> me
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol,,, different strokes for each kneels ,,, we should try to respect others points of view as well as different experiances
* Milan^ would be considered a newbie.... to skydiving. <g>
<Sly_Scotian> a somewhat of a newbie here
<DarkAngel^{rt}> care to intro bluechick^ ? how long have you been looking into it?
* TruDomme is a Newbie, to the role of Dominant
<DarkAngel^{rt}> and might I bother you in asking how you have been helped so far ?
<kneels> brb
<bluechick^> about three years ago i discovered this online
<DarkAngel^{rt}> have you been to a munch bluechick^ ?
<bluechick^> i did all sorts of reading and exploring
<`TimberWolf> DarkAngel^{rt} you may need to define what your definition of newbi is
<bluechick^> yes several
<DarkAngel^{rt}> excellent
<bluechick^> and i attended the beginners workshop last night
<bluechick^> i had a great time
<bluechick^> that was my first time playing in public
<Dea_Miranda> I've never been to a munch
* DarkAngel^{rt} is so much more happy to help someone along when they help themselves ,, kudos bluechick^
<DarkAngel^{rt}> are you framiliar with them Dea_Miranda ?
<Dea_Miranda> uhmm kinda
<DarkAngel^{rt}> room,,, if I may ?
* DarkAngel^{rt} Munches/Brunches are informal social gatherings where you can sit down and share some food and drink with like-mind people. If you've not attended a munch before, we encourage you to do so! It offers a relaxed social gathering for those of us interested in this lifestyle, both singles and couples, with a wide variety of ages and interests.
* DarkAngel^{rt} No scening or play occurs at munches/brunches. This isn't a play party, nor a dating service, nor a discussion group. It's simply a group of friends with common interest, who meet for dinner and/or drinks, to talk and laugh in a casual atmosphere.
<Dea_Miranda> cool :)
<bluechick^> the munches i have attended...i have found the people there very welcoming
<TruDomme> and laugh we do, eh DA? really relaxed atmosphere...not intended to be intimitdating in any way
<BernieRoehl> Which ones have you gotten to, bluechick^?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> definetly TruDomme ,,, I like to relax ,,
* DarkAngel^{rt} my name is JOhn ,, and I have a problem ,,, I am a Munch-a-holic
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lo
<DarkAngel^{rt}> l
<bluechick^> Murray's Munch and the one in Milton
<bluechick^> lol DarkAngel^{rt}
<TruDomme> my name is Chris and I also have a problem, I love people
<DarkAngel^{rt}> true TruDomme ,, I have seen the pictures ,,*evil chuckle*
* BernieRoehl chuckles
<`TimberWolf> my name is Iaan and I AM the problem:)
<TruDomme> and i thought those were destroyed
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I was going to mention that `TimberWolf
<TruDomme> lol TW
<`TimberWolf> lol I figure Da:)
<BernieRoehl> So... for the newbies here, what would make your exploration of all of this a bit easier?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol
<Milan^> i think one on one coffees over several months is really the way to properly expose newcomers to the lifestyle, and all its various permutations. Drink coffee, discuss perspectives, viewpoints, then pee, drink more coffee, discuss various intensities and commitments, then pee, then order more coffee, discuss "freedom through submission", then pee some more.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> well I think the best thing we have going for us ,, is the community ,, those who keep up the web sites ,, and Opp the rooms
<`TimberWolf> gee is Milan^ into watersports perhaps?
<Sly_Scotian> Haveing some to go to munches and paly parties is a big help.
<bluechick^> i have found the people welcoming, information abundant, for me it was a matter of summoning up the courage to take those first steps forward... and to keep going
<DarkAngel^{rt}> dont get pissy `TimberWolf
<`TimberWolf> ROFLMAO
<BernieRoehl> Anything we can do to help you (and others) find that courage, bluechick^?
<Milan^> i like coffee.... and exposing people to the theory before the handson is all.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> the sub I met yesterday ,, she was afraid to go to a Munch ,, I provided ,, by having a coffee with her ,, a framiliar face
<DeuxLeMax> im off
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I have also offered to show early ,, and meet out front a few so far
<bluechick^> i honestly can't think of anything that the community doesn't do already
<DarkAngel^{rt}> specifically the london and Woodstock Munches
<bluechick^> thats appreciated i'm sure DarkAngel^{rt}, going in alone would be very scary
<bluechick^> i'm lucky that way, i have a partner
<DarkAngel^{rt}> good bluechick^ ,,, but if you ever need ,, it is good to know you can come and ask
<DarkAngel^{rt}> well I know of one sub ,, who brought a vanilla friend ,,, who is now into the lifestyle as well ,,,LOL
<TruDomme> London is of course the friendlier crowd
<bluechick^> lol
* TruDomme winks at DA
<bluechick^> errm a bit biased there ;)
<bluechick^> ?
* bluechick^ grins
<DarkAngel^{rt}> especially the ones who also go to Woodstock ,,,LOL
<BernieRoehl> Glad to hear we're creating a welcoming atmosphere, bluechick^
<TruDomme> LOL
* DarkAngel^{rt} isnt bi
* TruDomme is
<DarkAngel^{rt}> rt is
<`TimberWolf> damn Da...you break my heart everytime you say that...ya big stud:)
* DarkAngel^{rt} licks his lips in hunger ,,,Mmmmm rt
<DarkAngel^{rt}> not big `TimberWolf ,, hung like a squirrle
<`TimberWolf> lol
<DarkAngel^{rt}> good thing rt is an animal lover ,,,lol
<`TimberWolf> but a rabid squirrel none the less
<DarkAngel^{rt}> damn right ,,,
<`TimberWolf> :)
<TheWolfe> I think the most important info one can convey to someone new to the scene is network...get to know as many people as you can. Don't allow yourself to be taken aside and segregated from the "community"
<kneels> night all :)
<DarkAngel^{rt}> definetly TheWolfe ,, a point not mentioned
<TruDomme> I've brought a vanilla friend to the London munch a few times, now she ins't interested in pursuing a lifestyle change (at this point) but it has helped her to feel less fearful of taking such a change into consideration
* BernieRoehl agrees with TheWolfe
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I think the best thing is to EXPOSE them to the community
* bluechick^ nods
<BernieRoehl> ... and make them aware there *is* a community -- that they're not alone
<Milan^> i think it's more in tune with finding a like minded soul who understands a similar niche as the newbie seeks (and yes, they generally know but often can't ennunciate it) and don't let the community screw up that ideal.
<bluechick^> for me it has been hard to get to events, being north of the city
<Stevius> for sure, networking is important...on the other hand, I have some really good coffee chats, as Milan mentioned, where the one-on-one was really rewarding
* DarkAngel^{rt} recals bringing a friend to one of TheWolfe's newbie workshops and letting her be dripped with wax for her first time ,, 3 Dom's worked on her ,, lots of experiance made it an awsome experiance for her
* TruDomme is without a car of Her own, so 'networking' and carpooling is good!
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's almost 10 pm. Anyone have any closing thoughts?
* DarkAngel^{rt} thinks ,, closing thought ,,,MMmm ,, ----YUMMY
<DarkAngel^{rt}> oh ya ,,, HI MOM
<TruDomme> I think just to relax
<DarkAngel^{rt}> just have fun ,,, go at their own pace ,, ask questions
<`TimberWolf> trust your instincts
<TruDomme> definitely TW
<DarkAngel^{rt}> and punt on 3rd down
<Milan^> "The Brilliance of Common Sense"
<Stevius> just do it
<BernieRoehl> Well, let's wrap it up there.
* DarkAngel^{rt} evil chuckle
<BernieRoehl> I'm going to close the log -- as always, please feel free to continue chatting informally.
<Milan^> now.... who wanted to meet to do fireplay? <g>
<BernieRoehl> Thanks to everyone who participated!
<TruDomme> who are You wrapping Bernie?
* #bdsm-kw is being logged
<DarkAngel^{rt}> excellent discussion ,, thank you BernieRoehl
<BernieRoehl> Anyone who'll hold still long enough, Tru! :-)
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, DA!
<BernieRoehl> I'm going offline for a bit to process and upload the log. See you all later!
<TruDomme> kudos to Bernie for another good discussion
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I hope you change the names to protect the indecent
<Justice^> hello kash
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, tru!
<TruDomme> shhh