May 28 2000 EhBC Online Discussion

<^trufriend> ok folks, tonight's discussion is Submission...and what it's all about to each of us...
* `zee{LQ} hugs tru and smiles
<canplay> greetings A/all ,, thought discusion had started so i was being quiet *s*
<^trufriend> if we can refrain from the usual greetings for the next hour....let us begin
<|Karen> me, is getting my own needs met.
<^trufriend> at what cost?
<^trufriend> at what reward?
<LrdTZ> what do you mean your own needs Karen
<|Karen> my need to serve, to submit, to bring pleasure....for someone who's needs are dominate, to control...
<`zee{LQ}> so it is not a gift to others but to yourself Karen
<^trufriend> at what limit or extent?
<|Karen> I don't believe in the gift theory at all.
<^trufriend> submission has been 'labeled' as a who, for who, why...
<canplay> oh good way to word that zee *smiles*
<`zee{LQ}> sharing yourself with anyone is a gift to both of you'
<crysania^> i believe both Dom and sub give as much to each O/other
<|Karen> I'm not sure what you mean by cost, reward, limit or extent in this context tur
<|Karen> errr...tru
<`zee{LQ}> if you want to say submission is a gift then domination is a gift as well
<|Karen> I think sharing oneself is just sharing oneself. nothing fancier or dressed up then that
<crysania^> agrees with zee
<canplay> hopes this hour is not met with symantics,, as we all call things by different names, it should be the inner meaning that matters not the word used
<LrdTZ> agreed can
<dalian> i dont consider my submission a girf per se...but i will expect a Master to prove himself capable to seeing that my physical/emotional/spiritual needs are met.or at least can handle the responsibility of turn my pleasure is seeing his needs are met foremost
* `vixie hates coming in late....may this one ask what the topic for tonight is?
<`zee{LQ}> okay canplay.. when i choose to submit and open my soul to my One.. and He his,, that is an exchange.. within that relationship.. my obediance and compliance is just that
<|Karen> sharing myself with my coworkers is no different then sharing myself with a significant's just a matter of degrees. And I don't call sharing myself with my coworkers a gift.
<^trufriend> a gift in it's literal intent is something you present or give another expecting nothing in return
<LrdTZ> but Karen do you submit to your coworker???
<canplay> and you may call that a gift zee ,, that is fine, i call the exchange a gift also ,, but i know many do not
<^trufriend> is that how people truly consider submission?
<bottoms_eating> we submit to our bosses, ect.. to a degree ;)
* Boo_Bitch is still in search of what submission is.. i have found no answer yet
* crysania^ rubs her butt remembers what submission is each time she sits
* canplay only knows what submission means to her and her Master , that is all that matters
<Leathersmith> :)
<`zee{LQ}> canplay.. if people call it a gift then i would hope that they also see the Dom/mes exchange as a gift as well.. i do not think of myself any higher or better than a Dominant within the schemes of things.. am on no pedestal,,lol
<Boo_Bitch> lol crys
<dalian> i agree canplay
<|Karen> it's just a difference of degrees and intimacy, LrdTZ....sometimes I help a coworker, and sometimes I help a Dom ....the motivation to serve is the same, but the degrees are different
<^trufriend> we're hearing much from sub about submission....what about what Dom/mes think aobut it?
<`vixie> tru, in giving a gift, you are getting something in are getting the satisfaction of knowing someone has received it, acknowledged it, and is cherishing it
<LrdTZ> but the reasons for serveing is different as well.
<|Karen> not necessarily
<canplay> and yes zee,, i feel both are a prescious gift *smiles*
<Boo_Bitch> how TZ?
<LrdTZ> why isn't it Karen.
* `zee{LQ} smiles to canplay
<LrdTZ> Helping a coworker complete a task at "work" is not the same as serving your Dom for pleasure.
<|Karen> I bring my whole self to whatever I do...or I try to. so....sometimes I help a coworker just for the pleasure....again, a different degree of it...
* canplay smiles to LrdTZ for that great insight *grins*
<`zee{LQ}> so once i have submittied to my Master... all else is obediance and compliance.. not a gift, just what i am
<Boo_Bitch> its interesting the views on what submission is... in nyc for close to 6 one ever thought to say to me.. you are not a submissive. i came to ontario and the community here and have heard it too often *shrug*
<^trufriend> how does it differ LrdTZ?
<crysania^> but your health and well being are not in the hands of a co-worker, Dom has much more responsibilty
<^trufriend> is not the emotional effect the same?
* Boo_Bitch smiles to Karen.. i like how you worded that
<Leathersmith> i think the gift of submission is the most awesome, wonderful and empowering thing i've ever felt. it cannot be taken, but once recieved, it becomes something that lives its own life inside of me.
<`vixie> nice way to look at it Leathersmith
<LrdTZ> I would not think so true
<|Karen> my health and well being are always in my own hands. period. whatever I am doing.
<LrdTZ> only to someextent karen in this lifestyle.
<canplay> thanks Leathersmith ,,that is how i feel submission should be viewed left #bdsm-kw
<|Karen> thank you Boo_Bitch
<crysania^> *smiles* at Leathersmith, well said Sir
<|Karen> I disagree, LrdTZ. I believe that I am always responsible for myself. period.
* Boo_Bitch shrugs... i can see submitting to a Dom/me as long as i agree that my health and well being are in good terms... if not i dont submit.. therefore i am truly responsible for my well being
<`zee{LQ}> Leathersmith Sir.. is not the 'gift' of Domination just as cherished?
<LrdTZ> Your responsible yes Karen but you don't have the control with yoru Dom than you do with your coworker.
<canplay> zee how can Leathersmith cherish what a Dom gives,,that is for us subs to cherish
<`zee{LQ}> i am obediant to my Master and respectful to O/others from who i am ..not as part of a gift..
<|Karen> sure I do. I can always, in the end, walk away from either....the job, or the relationship. as long as I'm willing to pay the price
<Boo_Bitch> isnt giving of yourself... vanilla or bdsm... Top or bottom... a gift?
<`zee{LQ}> i wasn't saying He had to cherish it sis.. just for Him to know that it is seen as one as well peer)
* BLiSs201 feels the same way as karen
<LrdTZ> why Bliss
* Boo_Bitch chuckles and listens
<Leathersmith> isp ouchie
<dalian> i agree with Karen...even as a slave..if my physical/emotional/spiritual well being is being threatened...then i can respectfully beg release
<BLiSs201> i dont believe i have control, no one does, we only have influence over our lives and the world we live in, but no one is responsible for me except myself, even within a marriage, to have anyone else be responsible is, well, wreckless
<|Karen> I have already known the price of walking away from a significant relationship with a Dom....two and a half years of hell.
<Leathersmith> yes domination is a gift as well, but submission comes first, with the submissive handing over control, domination can begin, that is why submission cannot be taken
<Boo_Bitch> i think you can say the words that someone has control over you ... and you can agree to allow things to happen but the whole while you are in control *confuzzled?" lol
* `zee{LQ} agrees with Leathersmith Sir
* canplay thinks W/we are falling back into last weeks chat on who is in control
* TheWolfe is still trying to figure out the topic after re-reading it
* |Karen agrees with Blish, particularily on that qualification about control...that no one of us really has it
<Leathersmith> what were the other two terms used besides gift in the official discussion title tonight?
<TheWolfe> gift, obedience or compliance
<^trufriend> thank You TheWolfe
<TheWolfe> np
* Nocturnal` would tend to disagree on the qualification of control, but does believe that each individual has some control whether it be Dom or sub
<Boo_Bitch> can someone explain compliance to me... in terms of submission?
<TheWolfe> agreed Nocturnal`
<MistressJade> Hello all
<crysania^> yep, that is where red, yellow, green come in
* |Karen doesn't agree with any of the choices, laughs 'pain in the butt that I am'
<TheWolfe> the level varies depending on the situation and the relationship
<Boo_Bitch> lol Karen
<MistressJade> I have alway felt that the sub has more control.
<`zee{LQ}> obediance and compliance.. are they different because they are seen coming from two different emotions?
<LrdTZ> of course they do MJ but only to the extent that they can use red, yellow, green. which Dom's can't
<Boo_Bitch> i dont know zee.. i am asking for definitions in terms of submission
<TheWolfe> yes we can
<canplay> Submission: obedience,gift or compliance? i feel it is all, and we each choose a different ratio to mix them
<^trufriend> when i spoke to bernie about this topic, "Submission...obedience, compliance or gift" my intent was to find out how many submissives feel they are actually submissive out of need, out of requirement or out of obligation...through pressure from one person or a whole society
<MistressJade> No I think moreso then just red yellow and green,
<`zee{LQ}> awww
<Boo_Bitch> i submit to being a bottom out of need
<TheWolfe> so that is what the topic should be
<crysania^> would have to say need
<dalian> is certainly a need for me
<`zee{LQ}> out of who i am and what Master wishes from me.. so need and requirment here
<Boo_Bitch> and i have been learning the diff of need and want... i still say need *grin*
<|Karen> ya know....Arnora said this on the EhBC list a long time ago...that some of us were in this thing just because it got our rocks off....and I hated it then....I thought...she's not taking this seriously enough. But damnit all.....she's right.
<MistressJade> Before every getting into a DS relationship the sub state, this is what I like, this is what I can tollerate, and these are my hard limits, then during play they still have access to Red Yellow and Blue.
<^trufriend> who imposes that need then? do we do it to ourselves or let someone else do it for us or even to us?
<LrdTZ> oh is that why your in it Karen to get "your rocks off":
<`zee{LQ}> if you explore yourself and be honest with yourself.. those needs will be clear
<|Karen> At least, for me. It's just a matter of _what_ and to what _degree_ we get our rocks off on. I happen to get off on serious emotional commitment with a Dominant partner
* Boo_Bitch is in it to get my needs met... and if i can give to someone at the same time.. great! i wouldnt take from someone and hurt them to get what i need though
<`zee{LQ}> and for me... Master's needs have become mine as well
<MistressJade> the need... may come from the need simply to escape the every day in a physical situattion.
<canplay> i am happy my submission is not viewed as a need for me, and i would not wish my Master to have need to Dom either, it is a choice not need (but that was a previous discussion also)
<dalian> isn't that the essence of submission...for a Master's needs to become yours wilingly?
<^trufriend> ok, what about subs who don't have a Dom/me or Master/Mistress?? who is the need for then and how do we satisfy it??
* `zee{LQ} agrees with dalian
<Boo_Bitch> Jade... actually my need is to face the world... and be helped/controlled into doing it .. lol
<canplay> filling needs is different than NEEDING to be
* `zee{LQ} agrees with canplay
<^trufriend> when one craves or needs chocolate....we go to the store and buy a chocolate bar.....can't do that with submission
* BLiSs201 is in it toi get her rocks off, no doubt about it
<Boo_Bitch> a damn shame eh tru? *smiles*
<MistressJade> Example: If I work as a Customer Service rep I am getting orders and complying with people all day long, then in returning home I take control so in essence switching the role and adding balance to my life.
<lyxanna> i used to think that canplay, until i found i "needed" the adrenaline and other rushes that come from corporal play
<lyxanna> plus if my day has been especially difficult, yes i find a NEED to submit, to let go
<LrdTZ> But can't Doms also need to "let go"
<lyxanna> definitly LrdTZ
<canplay> i want those rushes lynx ,, need is too strong a word, makes me feel pathetic to need things other then nessesities in life
<dalian> i have a friend who provides the element of solid foundation, control and levity that i need right now...until the time comes when i will meet that One
* crysania^ does not want to be close when Dom lets go...
<MistressJade> I certainly hope so or else that euforia I get would be bad.
* BLiSs201 always had a fantasy where a dom loses the illusion of control
<`zee{LQ}> speaking of needs and getting others to meet them.. is akin to using people for your own selfish means
<|Karen> a sub who isn't currently partnered....what have I been doing for the last two and a half years? Living. Healing from old wounds. Fucking up now and then. Flirting a lot. :) Looking, and trying to be patient, for a deep emotional commitment
<Boo_Bitch> zee, if you find a match in needs... who is getting used?
<canplay> i want, crave, enjoy, relish, dream, fantasize, desire,, but i do not NEED (but once again , all symantics)
* |Karen nods to Boo_Bitch's guestion...agrees
<`zee{LQ}> i just think it should be a lot more than getting your needs met.. where is the growth, the learning
<matrixx2> hello MistressJade
* canplay agrees with zee now :)
<MistressJade> what about those who crave so intensly that it becomes alsom as an addiction?
<|Karen> Life. the growth and learning is in Life, and in Living it.
* BLiSs201 thinks any addiction is unhealthy
<TheWolfe> needs could be growh and learning
* canplay nods to Bliss
<Boo_Bitch> it is an addiction for me.. the endorphins... definitely
* Boo_Bitch isnt healthy *shrug* ;)
<TheWolfe> BLiSs201...en is smiling at you re:addiction
<Leathersmith> if my NEED to Dominate and inflict sweet torture and pain is anything like a subbies' it is trly something one can not go without and function properly, emotionally or intellectually
<^trufriend> so finding a way to feed and nourish that need before it can become an addiction is what we need to do.....but how?
<BLiSs201> not function properly???????
<BLiSs201> hmm
<`zee{LQ}> i cant pin point it down.. just feel like.. 'me needs = your needsm lets get together.. is so one dimensional or self serving.. just isn;t sitting right with me.. am sorry people. *shrugs*
<lyxanna> but isn't that the bassis for any relationship???
* `zee{LQ} feels she is just not understanding the topic tonight
* BLiSs201 thinks needing submission is like needing a man/woman...once u start a relationship based on need ur in trouble
<canplay> does not like one to say sorry for their opinion,, we are all intitled zee : )
<TheWolfe> it depends on what the needs are
<lyxanna> isn't any relationship built on give and take,?
<|Karen> I think the equation is myneeds + yourneeds = relationship
<ladywo1f> ok...back again...did i miss anythig??
<Boo_Bitch> well zee.. to me that is life. you do what you do to get your needs met. as long as you are honest and are not taking something from someone in a negative way, then you are being healthy
<|Karen> and when those needs are compatible, it's a healthy, and happy relationship
<Boo_Bitch> right Karen ;)
<crysania^> maybe it is the definition of need that is the problem, no one truly needs anything, but some things make life more enjoyable
* BLiSs201 became truly free when she realized she didnt need a man or d/s
<^trufriend> so is submission a need for oneself rather than a gift to another? or is there a way to make it both...
* BLiSs201 became disgustingly happy when she got both
<TheWolfe> it can be both
<Boo_Bitch> when you open yourself to anyone... man, woman or child... its a gift
<LrdTZ> and was looking for both right BLiSs201
<TheWolfe> it depends on the individual(s)
<|Karen> I think I'm getting there Bliss....towards understanding that 'not needing' thing...
<|Karen> but I'm still in 101 :)
<Leathersmith> about the obedience and compliance terms, are those thaings that happen naturally After the gift has been given?
<ladywo1f> ideally i would like to find both in one place....
* BLiSs201 wasnt looking at all when both fell in my lap :))
<canplay> i feel the obedience and compliance are part of my gift
<TheWolfe> I always hate gift exchanges
<canplay> loves D/s gift exchange
<BLiSs201> :) Wolfe
<TheWolfe> It is a mutual sharing
<BLiSs201> sharing...yes
<ladywo1f> nods..that is usually the best relationships...the ones that kinda fall into your lap....
<Leathersmith> agree with canplay
<ladywo1f> compliance?? hhmm...dunno if that is in my living vocabulary.....obedience....wel.....
<TheWolfe> en and I are tied together by choice..I did not receive her submission as a gift
<BLiSs201> word obedience reminds me of training schools for dogs
* Boo_Bitch is trying to get a defintion of compliance within submission.. i guess i should go to ;)
<`zee{LQ}> exactly TheWolfe Sir
<crysania^> has to be a sharing, can't have submission without dominance and vice versa
<TheWolfe> en is obediant because she wants to be
<BLiSs201> then isnt that compliance Wolfe?
<Boo_Bitch> and why does she want to be?
<TheWolfe> beats Me
<BLiSs201> lol
<Boo_Bitch> lol
<`zee{LQ}> even when it is difficult for her right Sir?
<Boo_Bitch> gotta LOVE that answer *big smiles*
<`zee{LQ}> hi concubinary!!
<TheWolfe> yes `zee{LQ}
<canplay> does it really matter to You Wolf that i call my submission a gift? my Master feels the same as You do, symantics on what You call it.
<concubinary> :O)
<TheWolfe> it is a challenge and she likes that
* BLiSs201 LOVES challenges
<Boo_Bitch> mmmmm ;)
<ladywo1f> nods..i obeyed Blaze because his presence just kinda commanded it...i didn't act up much ..unless he was in a playful mood..
<TheWolfe> no canplay, call it whatever you like, I don't care for absolutes when it comes to terminology
* canplay smiles to Wolfe
<TheWolfe> ie: sub,slave,bottom
* Boo_Bitch is too black and white.. some area that needs work
<`zee{LQ}> so does obediance come from wishing and choosing too..where compliance is seen as doing so from the submission though not necessarily from a strong want to? just tryin to get a handle on the two words here
<`zee{LQ}> or are they the same?
<canplay> and i know W/we will never agree totally in this channel on any term, it is part of the beauty of D/s .. to each their own
<Boo_Bitch> no idea zee
* `zee{LQ} smiles and nods to canplay
<TheWolfe> this is not a lifestyle that incorporates absolutes other than SS&C and even those are bent at times
<Boo_Bitch> here here, canplay ;)
<canplay> yes zee, i think you have complience down pat there
<`zee{LQ}> i do?? lol
<TheWolfe> it comes down to what works for you and someone else
<Boo_Bitch> right, finding a match to your needs *grin*
<`zee{LQ}> if Master though i was complying instead of obeying from my submission to Him, He would not wish it (whatever) to happen
* |Karen grins
<BLiSs201> why not zee?
<canplay> i will comply, even though i may not enjoy if given a choice
<Vadio> Greetings
<TheWolfe> semantics
<Boo_Bitch> but in the long run canplay.. you do enjoy or benefit from it...right?
<Boo_Bitch> if you didnt.. you wouldnt stay?
<`zee{LQ}> for then i would be doing it for Him, because He asked or told me.. not from wanting to do it
<canplay> oh i enjoy my submission indeed,,and complience is part of that
<TheWolfe> en does a lot of things "for Me" and she enjoys that also
* Boo_Bitch smiles
<`zee{LQ}> yes TheWolfe Sir.. 'enjoying' being the operative word
<Boo_Bitch> and you do alot of things for her.. and you enjoy it? ;)
<LrdTZ> I don't want a sub that obeys for me but obeys or complies for them.
<TheWolfe> of course Boo_Bitch
<crysania^> sometimes it feels better when you do something for someone else, it feels good to make them happy
* Boo_Bitch grins... somehow i knew that ;)
<canplay> yes crysania,, i thought that was all part of being submissive :)
<`zee{LQ}> not at the expense of your own happiness though..that is what i am saying
<TheWolfe> also crysania^, if it feels good then it is also for you
<TheWolfe> if it feels bad then you shouldn't be doing it
* `zee{LQ} nods in agreement to TheWolfe Sir
<Boo_Bitch> i dont put 'suffer' and 'submissive' in the same sentence. i dont suffer as i serve.. if i did i woudnt serve.. in the long run
<canplay> very good Boo Bitch :)
<`zee{LQ}> though at some moments it does feel bad but you do comply hoping that it feels better as you go along
<BLiSs201> i do what my partner asks of me because i want to, i dont understand how that is obedience or compliance laugh....make plans)
<MistressJade> Just like any relationship both people must get equal return on what they invest inot the relationship.
<Boo_Bitch> sometimes being uncomfortable is part of what i seek in serving... i am still getting what i want
<Boo_Bitch> very true Jade ;)
<TheWolfe> that can definitely be a part of it Boo_Bitch
<^trufriend> who is it that determines the 'must' or the 'should' though Jade? kneels~)
<canplay> of course Boo Bitch,, that is how those that agree to humiliation also feel
* BLiSs201 shudders at "shoulds"
* |Karen smiles, is still agreeing with Bliss, and Boo_Bitch :)
<TheWolfe> I feel like we are going in circles here
<Boo_Bitch> lol TW.. i have felt like that since i came to toronto ;)
<canplay> and where would You like to go Wolf? *smiles*
<BLiSs201> "must" better be used in role as a word to arouse heat or we're in a fight :) power cord......?)
* |Karen smiles at TheWolfe 'isn't that the usual way of these discussions?'
<TheWolfe> lol
<BLiSs201> i would still like someone to describe the difference between obey and comply
<Boo_Bitch> me too... cause i cant
<TheWolfe> websters does it nicely BLiSs201
<Nocturnal`> you obey someone because you have to, you comply because you want to
<BLiSs201> well ya but i dont think they are using it in d/s context
<canplay> does not have websters handy , care to share T Wolf?
<MistressJade> trufriend, like i said earlier the sub usually give the list of boundaries that includend whe she wants, what she can tollerate, what she is willing to put up with, and her hard limits, in addition she has her safe words.
<BLiSs201> have to nocked? wanna explain that in d/s terms? does anyone truly have to do anything in a relationship?
<Boo_Bitch> i guess i have been using obedient wrongly then
<TheWolfe> en just brought Me a drink...
<TheWolfe> I didn't ask her to or tell her to
<BLiSs201> i compromised more of myself than was healthy in my marriage, but i didnt HAVE to do that
<TheWolfe> it is never expected but it is appreciated
<BLiSs201> ya but thats cuz she is a considerate partner Wolfe
<Boo_Bitch> isnt that for everyone TW?
<MistressJade> The Dom is free to run within those guidlines, of course there may or may not be an understanding that the Dom will help the sub to expand those guidling, but the is understood before hand otherwise the sub would simply not return to the relationship.
<TheWolfe> she didn't have to do it
<Nocturnal`> then maybe the people who use the word either have an over inflated ego or a misunderstanding of the word... you obey a dictator, or an order from a superior in the military, or a law
<BLiSs201> exactly nocked
<Boo_Bitch> you still have a choice .. you dont HAVE to
<BLiSs201> i dont see how that CAN exist in d/s
<Boo_Bitch> you decide.. which consequences you are willing to deal with
<Nocturnal`> that's not D/s Boo... because you don't have the choice to opt out of the punishment for not obeying a law, or an order
* BLiSs201 grins, i'm always willing to accept being stopped by a man in uniform if i'm caught breaking the traffic laws
<Boo_Bitch> i think of HAVE to as an unwilling choice
<MistressJade> the wolfe if what happens in your relation that if not expected but apprecated not part of a normal relationship asside from the BDSM part.
<TheWolfe> if the officer tells you to undress will you "comply" BLiSs201?
<Boo_Bitch> if he was cute *Grin*
<TheWolfe> yes it is Jade
* crysania^ got her first speeding ticket in 10 years last month
<Nocturnal`> it's a fun word to use, but when you use it in D/s, you are using it as a substitute for comply, not in the true meaning of the word
<BLiSs201> LOL depends, is he cute?
<Boo_Bitch> lol Bliss.. gmta ;)
* Nocturnal` goes back to sleep
<BLiSs201> exactly the point i wanted to make nocked :)
<Boo_Bitch> like i said Noc, i was using it incorrectly then.. in D/s *smiles*
* BLiSs201 would undress if her partner rents a uniform :))
<Boo_Bitch> rofl
* |Karen laughs
* BLiSs201 digs out the yellow pages
<MistressJade> Bliss, you would undress because you want to, or because you are being forced to?
<^trufriend> well ladies and gentlemen.......the formal portion of our discussion seems to be winding down rather if there is nothing else anyone would like to add
<canplay> that is ok Boo Bitch about using words in D/s not to proper usage, my Master calls me a slut ;)
* TheWolfe gets a mental image of Dragon in a nurses uniform
* BLiSs201 isnt forced to do anything with her partner
<Boo_Bitch> rofl canplay.... i see that point ;)
<Boo_Bitch> lol TW
<BLiSs201> LOL Wolfe u know me so well
<crysania^> night A/all
<Leathersmith> nite all
<canplay> thanks A/all , and hope to see M/many tomorrow night around.)
<^trufriend> thank you everybody for participating this evening
<SirLancelot`> thanks tru!
<Nocturnal`> everybody is bailing
<canplay> thanks tru :)
* Boo_Bitch smiles and huggles tru.. thank you ;)
<TheWolfe> yeesh
<dalian> well done tru! only make Me smile.)
<^trufriend> thanks dalian
<MistressJade> Hey what exactly was the topic of discussion tonight??
<TheWolfe> lol
<Boo_Bitch> lol
<BLiSs201> do u submit as a gift, obedience or compliance?
<Boo_Bitch> 'what the hell is submission?' *giggles*
<SirLancelot`> whatever you want it to be bottoms!!!
<SirLancelot`> lol
<MistressJade> so then the anwswer is a "gift"?
<^^lvn8all^^> ohh that would have been good discussion
* Boo_Bitch chuckles.. trust me.. our community wouldnt like my definition ;)
<TheWolfe> the topic should have been "Why do you submit?"
<canplay> no answer Mistress Jade,,only thoughts to ponder
<^^lvn8all^^> my submission is a gift if their lucky enough to get it :))
<^^lvn8all^^> lol
<Boo_Bitch> agreed... no answer ;)
<Boo_Bitch> if you come with a big red bow lvn.. hmmmmmm *grin*
<BLiSs201> yes Wolfe
<^^lvn8all^^> lol Boo :)
<TheWolfe> everyone has their own reasons
<canplay> W/we all agreed that W/we are all different and like it that way i think *smiles*
<canplay> has to go now ,, good night to everyone :)
<BLiSs201> yes but it would have been interesting to see
<Boo_Bitch> night canplay *hugs*
<TheWolfe> prefer that way yes canplay
<dalian> as you said canplay...all that matters is what is defined between the two sharing in the exchange
* canplay waves on her way out
<^trufriend> be back in a few minutes...