May 25, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Early Interest -- Things in Your Youth That Led You to BDSM". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<ravenswolf> ahhh there it is
<earl{MS}> or is it becky in descise
<earl{MS}> ooops, never could spell
<earl{MS}> this should be an easy topic since most of you are in your youth
<`abi> I don't even remember mine
<pandora``> i get depressed when i try to remember mine, it seems so long ago!
<earl{MS}> because its not over yet?
<`abi> I'm sure the mokly one remembers hers
<kneels_in_heels> runs amuck
<kneels_in_heels> what do i remember?
<`abi> your wayward youth
<`abi> the road to bDSM
<pandora``> how about wayward adulthood?
<`abi> well, Picasso did say that it takes a long time to grow young
<kneels_in_heels> actually..i dont remember ever not having bdsm fantasies..i was kinky as soon as i was sexual..i didnt realise that i was a "sub" until about 5 or 6 years ago though
<kneels_in_heels> my earliest related memory would being about 5 and wanting to play "bad men" with my brothers friends
<pandora``> i always had "submissive" thoughts i guess, from my 20's, i used to have fantasies about it, but it wasn't till i was in my 40's that i started to do something about it, i just thought i was weird till that point
<`abi> geez kneels ... they were just learning to tie their shoelaces ... how were they gonna tie you up?
<pandora``> lol
<kneels_in_heels> well i remember getting frustrated with them because i always had to explain to them what i wanted them to do
<`abi> lol..did they accuse you of topping from the bottom?
<kneels_in_heels> i remember being 14 and trying to get my boyfriend to spank me
<kneels_in_heels> lol
<earl{MS}> can remember fantacies that go back over 50 years
<`abi> you think that 'kink' is a sexual orientation which is innate?
<`abi> to ask the nature vs. nurture question
<kneels_in_heels> for me it was abi
<pandora``> i think for me it was too
<pandora``> i just wanted someone to take control, that has been there as long as i can remember
<kneels_in_heels> i think the submissive part perhaps is more nuture and nature..but the kinky side of me had those thoughts before i had any idea what sex was
<earl{MS}> do you really think its a sexual orientation?
<ravenswolf> someone posed a question somewhere that has always made me wonder - do people without bdsm inclinations even know it's there - do they even recognize it in the world - unless it's introduced to them or thrust in front of their faces
<earl{MS}> kneels_in_heels, my fantacies also go back before sex
<kneels_in_heels> no..i mean that aspect of me was kinky before i knew what kink or sex was...the sub part isnt sexual earl{MS}
<`abi> I think that many people are blissfully unaware that it exists ravenswolf
<`abi> almost everyone I've ever met in the lifestyle has said that they always thought they were the only ones ... and just weird
<earl{MS}> abi, why? is a good question
<ravenswolf> yesss but do those people have bdsm inclinations? - or do you have to be inclinded to the lifestyle regardless of when you explore it to even stumble upon it
<`abi> because it hasn't been a mainstream lifestyle earl ... and even now, it is more underground than aboveground
<`abi> well, it depends on where you draw the line ravenswolf
<`abi> if you ask how many people have ever tied their partners up ... the numbers are quite high
<`abi> even higher if you ask how many have spanked a partner
<`abi> is that BDSM?
* `abi shrugs
<earl{MS}> abi, probably
<ravenswolf> so the real question is where do you draw the line between kink and bdsm? if such a line can be drawn
<Symmetre> :-)
<`abi> but many people who do those things, don't think of them as BDSM ... they think of them as 'spicy' sex
<earl{MS}> stigm?
<`abi> and they would object strongly to being labelled 'kinky'
<earl{MS}> a
<pandora``> i never thought as spanking or being tied up as bdsm, i just thought it was mildly kinky
<`abi> precisely pandora
<`abi> so, even those people don't really have to recognize or understand that there are people who are hardwired differently
<`abi> and since for the most part, we don't go around broadcasting our orientation, it's quite possible for them to go about in blissful ignorance
<earl{MS}> interesting
<`abi> until they find out that their partner has been visiting a Dominatrix in his spare time
<ravenswolf> which leads us back to things you our youth that leads us to bdsm
<ravenswolf> sheesh in our your
<ravenswolf> our
<ravenswolf> youth
* Symmetre used to get a lil kid woodie playing Pirates with the other kids ... especially the neighbor girlie
<`abi> ohh...word games ... I love word games ;)
<abitbent> :)
<ravenswolf> lol would like to be able to type
* abitbent played house with a couple neighbourhood girls and i always wanted to play the part of the dog.
<Symmetre> loved capturing other kids then tying them up for interrogation
<`abi> it's interesting that psychologists believe that one of the functions of play is to learn
<abitbent> Did anyone else notice that something was "different" about their likes, even before adolesence?
<`abi> do you think that children playing those games are 'learning' dominance and submission?
<Symmetre> none of the other kids got into the nazi interrogation scenes in war movies like I did
<earl{MS}> abi, do you think the learning of D/s is limited only to playing games or does it occur in normal interaction of children?
<`abi> I don't know that it is learned at all earl
<earl{MS}> i.e. some lead, some follow
<`abi> I think it's possible that the play reflects characteristics which are already present
<earl{MS}> yes, characteristics may be inate but the experiences teach the how to
<`abi> well, I think that it's possible that positive experience influence self awareness ... yes
<`abi> if the experience of being tied, restricted, controlled is a pleasurable one .. then you will likely look for more opportunities to experience that
<`abi> and as you get older ... the opportunities change
<abitbent> amen
<abitbent> for that
<ravenswolf> no kidding
* `abi smiles at abitbent
<`abi> yes, somehow the cowboy hats have lost their appeal for me over the years ;)
<`abi> the boots however, I still like
<earl{MS}> and the rope?
<ravenswolf> and the realllyyy tight jeans
<`abi> the addition of chaps is nice
<abitbent> it's funny because i no longer seek Mistresses who look like wonderwoman any longer either.
<abitbent> :-P
<`abi> little abitbent is growing up ;)
<abitbent> lol.. i'm getting there.
<earl{MS}> wonderwoman, the one with the whip?
<abitbent> sure that works earl{MS}
<abitbent> lol
<`abi> what about teenage years ...
<`abi> anyone feel markedly different from their peers?
<earl{MS}> that's an understatement
<`abi> I think it was a substatement ... but yanno
<abitbent> definately.. but i tried my hardest to blend in.
<`abi> were you consciously aware of what it was that made you different abitbent?
<abitbent> from the start abi... it surfaced for me the first time i gathered with friends to look at some stolen playboy books.. ... had no idea why it did nothing gor me.
<abitbent> for me
<`abi> because I think that I always felt like I didn't fit in, without really understanding why
* `abi smiles at the Gorean slip ;0
<abitbent> this one is far from gor.. lol
<`abi> we're all just a fantasy away from gor abitbent
<abitbent> conversations with your girlfriends had you nodding when the topic of sex came.. but inside you were thinking different thoughts?
<`abi> speaking of which .... what kind of books did people read?
<abitbent> joy of sex... and eventually The Story of O
<`abi> did my question about reading material get here before I poofed?
<ravenswolf> yeppers
<earl{MS}> loved the story of O
<`abi> I remember reading "Pretty Maids All in A Row" when I was about 12 and being completely fascinated by the fisting scenes
<subcdn> I read the usual male magazines
<earl{MS}> is it a fair observation that most people start with bondage fantacies?
<abitbent> i find it interesting.. that the hardwired D.s folk that i seem to gravitate to... always seem to have recollections of feeling different since childhood.
<abitbent> it was for me earl{MS}
<`abi> I didn't really earl
<ravenswolf> me also earl{MS}
<subcdn> I didn't earl
<earl{MS}> by the way, am still a bondgae slut
<`abi> interestingly earliest fantasies were slavery fantasies ... ownership, service
<subcdn> that is similar to mine abi
<abitbent> that's neat abi.. that's something that didn't manifest in me until i started to realize what d.s was.
<subcdn> bondage wasn't a requirement
* `abi nods to subcdn .... confinement, yes .. bondage, no
<earl{MS}> was probably in my thirties before any thoughts of slavery came into it
<`abi> I used tp
<`abi> oops
<`abi> I used to 'confine' myself .... I always liked to make my world smaller
<earl{MS}> isn't that a form of bondage?
<`abi> that's still a large part of what BDSM does for me ... for periods of time, my world gets quite small .... physically and psychologically
<`abi> I consider bondage to involve being bound in some way earl
<earl{MS}> abi, just that Mistress considers being caged as a form of bondage
<abitbent> physical restriction of movement?
* `abi nods to earl ... we all define things a little differently earl
<`abi> yes abitbent ... I actually dislike tight bondage ... confinement and tight restriction of movement are very different experiences for me
<earl{MS}> it was once said that a slave was in bondage just by being a slave, human bondage
<earl{MS}> there seems to be broad and varied definitions of bondage
<subcdn> isn't that a mental restriction rather than a physical one
<`abi> I don't believe that even Meriam Webster restricts itself to one definition of very many terms
* `abi waits for the Bots last call
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<`abi> tada
<`abi> my only last thoughts are that it definitely gets to be more interesting when you grow up
<ravenswolf> i definately agree abi
<abitbent> it's my thought.. that true inner kink is usually born.. not bred.
<earl{MS}> then it took me 57 years to grow up, just slow i guess
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<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.