May 21 2000 EhBC Online Discussion

<BernieRoehl> I've turned on the log
<Leathersmith> partner, yes, playmate is different...
<bottoms_up{RD}> ohhhhh *scooting closer to Leathersmith*
<BernieRoehl> I've set an automatic channel message taht reads as follows...
<[shoshin]MMT> *settling down to listen*
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion topic is "Start with Respect: finding your Dom/me/sub mate". The moderator tonight is Karen. Enjoy the discussion!
<|Karen> Okay, so the discussion tonight is "Start with Respect: Finding your mate"
<BernieRoehl> Over to you, Karen!
<bottoms_up{RD}> i am confused about the topic, honestly
<|Karen> I guess this topic, like many I suggest, comes out of personal experience
<crysania^> all relationships must start with respect
<|Karen> I've noticed that there seems to be a large number of people hunting for their mate in this community
* tvsubbie4you raises a hand ;)
* [shoshin]MMT hand up... looking
* canplay laffs at term "hunting"
* crysania^ adds her add
* bottoms_up{RD} giggles.. can i raise my hand too?
* Leathersmith stings up hunting bow
<|Karen> And that many of them get somewhat caught up in the Kink of it, and forget that the people they are looking for are humans first, not just Doms or subs
<|Karen> tv?
<crysania^> agrees with Karen 100 percent
* bottoms_up{RD} sticks a target on my butt ;)
<tvsubbie4you> was just adding myself to the numbers of looking, and have found it quite a hard search
<bottoms_up{RD}> i heard it is harder for a male sub also.. numbers *sigh*
<[shoshin]MMT> just as hard for a femsub looking for unattached Male Dom
<bottoms_up{RD}> but arent there more Male Doms vs Fem Dommes?
<|Karen> I have often felt that I've been.....slotted into some kind of 'category' kitten, bitch, whore....etc
<|Karen> and I don't feel ....respected, in the process.
<[shoshin]MMT> lots of the Doms are "attached" in some sense
<crysania^> i think it is hard in any relationship, but expectations appear different in D/s some thing subs are just free hookers
<|Karen> if I don't 'act submissive' ....whatever the hell that means in the mind of the person judging me, I get labelled 'bitch' as well
<|Karen> so....anyone else with similiar experiences?
<bottoms_up{RD}> me *grin*
<crysania^> mmm, meant to say think
<bottoms_up{RD}> ok crys ;)
<Kilted_One> that sounds a little like stereo typin though Karen....I for one dont see/look for that in a submissive or slave
<[shoshin]MMT> Karen..too early for me to tell... i pass by the Ones looking for just sex..i have learned the jargon
<[shoshin]MMT> oops..gotta go
* Kilted_One who thinks that "bitch" is not all that bad!!!!
<bottoms_up{RD}> for me, i noticed alot of people have a vision of what a sub is.. and i dont fit it and get labelled badly *shrug*
<bottoms_up{RD}> lol KO :)
<|Karen> I understand that, KO.....but I think that the stereotyping is running rampant in the 'community'
<crysania^> i have been accused of leading One on because i would not agree to meet to play after only talking to Him for 10 minutes
<|Karen> I wonder if perhaps there is some way to....counter this stereotyping with education
* BernieRoehl notes that "sex kitten", "whore" and "bitch" can all be terms of endearment :-)
<tvsubbie4you> but stereotyping happens when people are not looked at as individuals, or viewed with the respect due them
<`abi> and the ever popular "slut" Bernie :)
<BernieRoehl> True, abi!
* |Karen smiles at Bernie 'indeed...if used as actually terms between two people who have already established respect and trust'
<crysania^> the words are not the problem it is the context they are said in that create the issues
<|Karen> but not as an unsaid category in the mind of the person who expects his new acquaintance to behave that way with him immediately
<DarkAngel^> I agree ,,, and the terms used are up to the couple ,,, and not up for judgement by others -ChanServ:#BDSM-KW- Kilted_One has opped vixen{KO}
<|Karen> as crysania just said, it's a matter of context..
<bottoms_up{RD}> do you think it is just the jerks that are stuck in the stereo type interogation of a new partner .. with the labelling and judgements... or are some good Dom/mes just a bit 'ignorant'? -ChanServ:#BDSM-KW- Kilted_One has opped vixen{KO}
<|Karen> I think there's a lot of relatively good people coming into BDSM with....misconceptions.
<bottoms_up{RD}> i mean ignorant in the sense of not knowing.. i dont mean rude
<|Karen> and an eagerness....that while it can be cute, can also be hurtful...when they treat the people they meet as less then human...
<canplay> Karen , could you please tell me of some 'misconceptions' so i am aware of what W/we are talking about?
<DarkAngel^> but each person ,, entering into a new relationship is ignorant then ,, the fun and interesting thing is the learning ,, not the destination
<crysania^> some are just in it for the sex, not the relationship, wether it be long/full/part time a relationship is needed
* Kilted_One thinks that if you are "not knowing' and you are "good at heart" then you tread lightly....being a prick through ingnorance only hold a few drops of water in my books
<tvsubbie4you> well, for myself...most people see that i'm a tv, and immediately think that i'm gay
* bottoms_up{RD} isnt sure what they are.. but i DO know i am not them.. as i have been told over and over again ;)
<|Karen> misconceptions...ohhh...thinking that submissive means a quick and easy lay
<vixen{KO}> or doormat
* crysania^ nods nods @ Karen
<bottoms_up{RD}> ohhh... i get submissive means easy to get along with *grin*
<canplay> well if i met a Dom with those thoughts Karen, there would be no "relationship"
<Leathersmith> i can personnaly trade a good pain session for sex any day, but i am a budding sadist...
* Kilted_One erases the word "welcome" off of vixen's back
<Sir_Fury> would wonder if a dom thinks like that how serious are they
<|Karen> the guy looking for a quick and easy lay will probably grow up and become a good person...but in the meantime....he can hurt an awful lot of people if he knows even a bit of the 'walk' and 'talk'
<crysania^> agrees with Sir Fury, but when someone is new it is hard to tell Who is serious and Who just plays
* Kilted_One doesnt think that tv's are gay!!, however I could see how some feel that way....
<DarkAngel^> we have all been 'new' ,,, and perhaps even been with 'new' people
<tvsubbie4you> i do get it a lot KO...
<|Karen> or the submissive who hasn't really found his or her personal ground yet and believes that that is the way s/he is supposed to be
<DarkAngel^> every relationship ,, if you want it to work needs give and take
* Nocturnal` thinks the first thing you need to be able to do is distinguish between people who are into the lifestyle because they love it and are serious about it, and those who think it's an easy way to get sex
<BernieRoehl> What's always puzzled me is that some people, particularly men, get into the scene looking for sex. Sex is much, much easier to find than D/s. If all they're looking for is sex, it's everywhere.
<crysania^> agrees with Nocturnal but the question is still how do we tell
<bottoms_up{RD}> you mean there isnt a stamp on a Dom/mes butt? CSA approved? *grin*
<Nocturnal`> Ask questions crysania... experience, attitude, guys in it only for sex don't usually last long...
<vixen{KO}> true Bernie....but it's still great sex which is what a lot of wannabe's look at
<Kilted_One> k we have heard a whole load of data on how Dom/mes mis-treat or mis-read submissives, rightly or wrongly, but can we now move on to the topic of the discussion??
* crysania^ starts checking them butts
* |Karen shakes her head 'see...I don't think it's that tell the difference between the 'true' bdsmers and the hangers-about...
* DarkAngel^ came into the Life with my wife ,,, exploreing ,,, was trapped forever ,,lol
<|Karen> and even when one can do we keep them out?
* vixen{KO} lifts up the back of the kilt to peek for said stamp
<bottoms_up{RD}> lol
<canplay> is E/everone jumping into relationships here? do T/they not talk and find out about others before getting involved?
<|Karen> there are no more walls around this community with the advent of the internet
<BernieRoehl> Should there be, Karen? (My answer is no, but I can see both points of view)
<bottoms_up{RD}> people in relationships can 'fool' the other for awhile.. in bdsm or vanilla
<Nocturnal`> communication and patience...
<|Karen> so....I think the task we have is even harder then telling the difference....I think that even the poseurs are here for some reason, and that perhaps we could educate them.
<canplay> respect is relative ... W/we all seek it, but some have different ideas what that means, talking helps to see if O/one is for Y/you
<`abi> I'm not sure we all have to be here for the same reason
* Kilted_One wonders what Karen's definition of a poser is?
* BernieRoehl agrees with abi
<canplay> true abi,, but at least W/we should find the right O/one for O/our own journey
<|Karen> the other part of this, is for those who are looking for relationships....there seems to be an abundance of rotating collars....
<DarkAngel^> I like that canplay
<Sir_Fury> would hope most people talk to the other for sometime before jumping in a relationship
<`abi> that's right canplay...and all that requires is knowing what *you* want
<canplay> honesty is therefore important part of being respected
* DarkAngel^ doesnt know what he realy wants
<crysania^> W/we all have O/our definitions of W/who or what is right
<|Karen> and I think that's because people are so eager for the Kink...maybe because they've denied it for so long...that they go with something that turns them on, and don't look at the whole human being
<`abi> then you'll likely find it DA :)
<canplay> be honest, open and outfront with perspective partners
<DarkAngel^> the unknown somewhere out there is my sub
<bottoms_up{RD}> i can understand the eagerness.. the craving that you HAVE to have play.. that rushes you and you dont see signs as well
<canplay> i think not knowing is ok Dark Angel, pretending is a problem
<|Karen> answer someone who is just using the right words and walk to get to the sex...without caring about the human being
<`abi> I think you're right bottoms...sometimes short term wants get in the way of long term needs
<crysania^> not knowing means i spend more time learning
* |Karen agrees with abi about how important knowing what you want is
<crysania^> the more i learn the better i am able to communicate what i need
<DarkAngel^> but great short term ,,MMmm well it isnt right if you go in expecting it is to be short term ,, I dont
<canplay> but some only wish short term, and that is fine also, if presented and accepted that way
<|Karen> part of respect...respecting your being honest with them...if you aren't sure what you want...say it right up front
* Kilted_One has always thought that it took two to no matter what the talk or needs a mate to make it happen....and what happened to communication and getting to know one another along the way?
* Nocturnal` would have to agree with KO on that
<|Karen> yes, KO, exactly. what ever happened to it?
<DarkAngel^> BUT ,,, as was mentioned earlier ,,, I do think of playing casually ,,,, it isnt in me though ,, one reason i still considder myself as just beginning this life ,, after 3 yrs
<crysania^> is it really different in D/s then in vanilla, there are some who go to bars just to get a one night stand as well
* canplay prefers communication before hand
<|Karen> I don't see the patience that good communication and getting to know each other takes anymore...
<bottoms_up{RD}> i think its the need for the play that is the part that wrecks the patience
* Kilted_One thiks that ppl aka submissives are having a problem telling us Dom/mes the age thing that their mothers taught them....."NO" does mean NO
<Jaz^> It sure seems to work in my relatioship. Work is the key. You both want to work on creating and building your relationship.
* crysania^ nods at KO
* Kilted_One insert "old" after age....freuding thing ya know
<|Karen> there some way to hold off on that need for play?
<|Karen> does that just come back to....knowing what you need?
* DarkAngel^ doesnt think there is only one direction to a good relationship ,, but there certainly is need for honesty and communication ,,
<canplay> but if B/both just want play,,what is wrong with that?
<BernieRoehl> Well, my feeling is that holding off on play until there's a relationship just makes people rush into relationships in order to get the play
* Kilted_One thinks that "having a coffee" need only be "just that" and that going out for supper "need only be that" while two ppl get to know two ppl
* canplay grins at Bernie and nods
* BernieRoehl nods in agreement with canplay
* DarkAngel^ couldnt hold back from play ,,, just me *innocent grin*
<bottoms_up{RD}> i think holding off the need would be a KEY .. but how?
* BernieRoehl smiles
<|Karen> nothing wrong with it canplay ....if that's what both partners want and are honest about it with themselves and each other
<|Karen> there's that old talk about love to get sex, and women talk about sex to get love...
<bottoms_up{RD}> nothing wrong with some casual play to itch that scratch... but it pressures you to move to fast if you arent into casual play..and you may end up with a person you arent suited to or with a so called poser
<crysania^> saying NO is hard enough but finding a way to do it that does not insult the Dom is even harder
<`abi> interesting concept Bernie...I think that's what happens with *instant* collars...the assumption is that the relationship will automatically come with the collar....but it doesn't quite work that way
<BernieRoehl> But if what they both want is BDSM, what should they talk about? :-)
<BernieRoehl> Exactly, abi!
<DarkAngel^> well since I am sitll looking for that perfect relationship ,,, and admit I dont know how it will turn out ,, I couldnt give advice ,,, but it is beautifull to recognize those in the community I see around me *winks at KO*
* Nocturnal` thinks what some people need to do is differentiate between "play" and a "relationship"
<BernieRoehl> Yes, exactly Nocturnal.
<crysania^> even to just play a relationship of some form would have to exist or where would the trust come from
<|Karen> can you expand on that, Nocturnal`?
<canplay> was in D/s relationship for 10 months and no collar, didn't know O/others jumped so quickly here
<tvsubbie4you> it happens, canplay
<Nocturnal`> If I'm not in a relationship and feel the urge to play, I know a few subs who are good friends who, at a fet night or party, would be happy to play, just for playings sake... but we are friends, nothing more, and we both know that\
* BernieRoehl has always been surprised how quickly people rush to collar, and wonders what the hurry is
* Kilted_One thinks that there are always gonna be the "in it for the sex only" ppl out there....submissives just have to learn how to say "Piss off' in their demured tones with a smile on their lips like they area good at and get on with the real search....these ppl are not worth the air space or time..
<crysania^> friendship is a relationship isn't it
* Kilted_One tips his kilt at DA..ty
<Jaz^> Thats a good point Bernie.....The mystic behind the collar and having a collared sub can create undue pressure
<Nocturnal`> not the type of relationship that we are referring to here I think crysania
* canplay knows how to say "piss off" without demured tone *smiles*
<|Karen> I have......played with people that I defined as just a friend, and found that the feelings after play mix me all up and thinking that I want a relationship with them
<BernieRoehl> Yes, Jaz -- exactly.
<|Karen> so....I know that self confusion happens
* DarkAngel^ slipps out
<|Karen> I wonder if the respect in the subject line is first off...._self_ respect?
<bottoms_up{RD}> Karen.. did you discuss with your partners that it was ONLY play?
<Kilted_One> why would you class that as "mixing you up" Karen??
* spiritsong went without "play" of any kind for 9 weeks ...all you get is a crabby me sometimes you have to play to figure out what you need
<Leathersmith> initially i entered the community determined to start a relationship, being a basically monogamus person. pressing BDSM Needs though, have tempered that initial viewpoint to where i enjoy play for the sake of play. and sex is not a huge factor.
<tvsubbie4you> absolutely, Karen
* bottoms_up{RD} smiles to spiritsong.. i am on your side with that one .. IF you can emotionally handle casual play
<|Karen> sure bottoms....up front, it was only play...I'm talking about what happens afterwards
<Vadio> hiya
<Vadio> greattings
<|Karen> KO....mixed up feelings afterwards....where the head still knows that this was just play, but the subspace....feels something else
* Nocturnal` thinks a lot of it has to do with your personal feelings and emotions, whether or not you can do more casual, friend playing
<spiritsong> did you talk to them openly after Karen?
* bottoms_up{RD} huggles Karen... you cant help your feelings if they go further than the agreed upon limits.. but if you know you do this, its best to stay away from casual play... as you are learning, right?
<canplay> i think sometimes submissives agree play, but in backs of mind may not really know what they are putting their emotional selves into
<Jaz^> IMO time is the a important factor. Taking the time to leatn all anout each other. Enjoying BDSM and non BDSM activities. Seeing who each of you are, learning all you can. This all takes time
<bottoms_up{RD}> does anyone take the time to teach the people who have 'different' views... to give them a new side to look at?
* spiritsong nods
<|Karen> yes of course, spiritsong....I'm trying to get more to a mentality, rather then turning this into counselling for Karen
<Kilted_One> Karen do you think that play should lead to sex?....and it is that what is confusing you?
<bottoms_up{RD}> i love to talk and teach the hng's ;))
<crysania^> would there not be different limits to casual play versus playing within a relationship
* vixen{KO} packs an hng colt
<bottoms_up{RD}> vixen.. i have found some nice hng's... they thought they were taking on the role we SUBS expected from them
* Nocturnal` thinks a lot of this is talking in generalities, limits, preferences etc, when in reality it is a highly personal issue, that varies from person to person
<vixen{KO}> i have too, bottoms....tis the nature of the beast we call the net to afford the comfort of anonymity which leads to much confusion
<bottoms_up{RD}> if enough people take the time to teach the hng or the confused subs and Doms... then those people can take a different outlook and learn from others and grow into a healthier D/s person, IMHO
<|Karen> no KO, not necessarily (and there's a change, eh Bernie? :))'s just bdsm can so strongly influence the emotions as to change people ...
<Nocturnal`> And the first thing you need to know... is yourself, and how you feel about these things, before you can really get involved in anything
* Kilted_One puts up his hand.....I try and educate others...let them know that there are other ways to see and do things that I think are worthwhile to the person that I'm addressing at the time.....most take it positively
* vixen{KO} has put on her school marm costume more times than she's care to count
* crysania^ has found most ppl willing to teach and explain
<bottoms_up{RD}> *warm smiles to KO*
* canplay thinks O/one must respect them selves before they can respect others
* BernieRoehl nods and smiles at Karen's subtle change in viewpoint :-)
<|Karen> and normally well-mannered people find themselves changed to less then respectful in the throes of the emotions that bdsm can elicit
* Kilted_One winks at bo
* `abi wonders if the opposite is also sometimes people ever use BDSM because they think it's a shortcut to a relationship?
<Kilted_One> opppps bu lol (holding his nose)
* OT agrees with |Karen
<bottoms_up{RD}> lol KO :)
* |Karen nods 'I think so, `abi'
<^^blush^> i think so too
<bottoms_up{RD}> damn, i am NOT going to get beat just to get a man.. NOPE ;)
<Stephen_S> |Karen, I think the community has a reputation for play, but play is not for everyone
* Nocturnal` doesn't... a lot harder to find a real relationship here, than in the vanilla world
<rbrraincoat> Sounds like you have the right idea bottoms_up.
<vixen{KO}> interesting question abi....and i'm sure there are those out there that have
<^^blush^> No bottoms????? You mean there has to be an excuse?
<^^blush^> *grinning*
<spiritsong> so you think that the emotions can change ppl as they play?
<|Karen> does one stay in the community without casual playing?
<^^blush^> a lot of willpower... i don't see how it can be done myself Karen
<bottoms_up{RD}> lol blush ;)
<Stephen_S> thats a tough question..
* bottoms_up{RD} smiles to rbr ;)
<|Karen> and how useful is it to look for a long term relationship in a community that seems focussed on casual play?
<vixen{KO}> it's all a matter of weeding out, in the vanilla world....
* vixen{KO} spent too much time in the garden today
<OT> It could be very frustrating at times |Karen
<spiritsong> the question " where do you expect this to go ?" works well
<crysania^> someone once told me it is easier to find a partner outside D/s and introduce it to the relationship then to find a relationship in D/s
<`vixie> but not all are willing to answer that question spiritsong
<|Karen> it seems like there is a great deal more weeding out to do in the bdsm community then in the vanilla community, vixen
<spiritsong> bringing a vanilla in does not work most of the time
<vixen{KO}> true....because it is an extreme's to be maybe we should question our expectations???
<|Karen> which brings me back to Respect.
* `abi doesn't think so ... I imagine there'd a whole lot of weeding out in the vanilla world to find a partner also into BDSM
<`vixie> *very* true abi
* `abi doesn't like gardening ;)
<|Karen> why can't the community, in general, be more respectful of each other?
* vixen{KO} thinks it's a natural be on knees in the dirt
* BernieRoehl agrees with abi
<spiritsong> because its a small comunity ..its like growing up in a very small town ...everyone knows each others business
* tvsubbie4you thinks ego has a lot to do with it, Karen
<canplay> once again , i think respect is relative,,,, i think it disrespectful to call anyone a poser myself, just because He does not view as ohters do
<|Karen> ego, tv?
* Kilted_One knows that we are in a lifestyle that is "extreme" and that means that we have "extreme" opinions and most of us are outspoken.....all of that makes for a tought time for diplomacy and polically correctness
* vixen{KO} agrees with tvsubbie4you....
* Nocturnal` thinks there are a lot of reasons for that... a lot of Doms, by nature (I'm not saying all, but quite a few) are arrogant, and egotistical, and that doesn't lead well to respect
<`vixie> true KO
<Jaz^> good point tv
<LadySpike> so true Noc
<^^blush^> that probably accounts for a lot of it Noc
<tvsubbie4you> some people, both subs and Dom/mes alike, let their own sense of self blind themselves to what others are really like
<vixen{KO}> it's the old peacock routine....
* OT agrees with Nocturnal`
<canplay> and i will not respect O/one that does not deserve it
<`aqui`> there is no reason "not" to be respectville of others though Noc
<Nocturnal`> aqui... I didn't say it was right, I just gave a possible reason
<spiritsong> you can still be respectful and polite even if you can not stand the other person
<`aqui`> and I agree with your thoughts.....
<|Karen> it that the search for 'knowing oneself' can blind one to others' humanity?
<`abi> I think it comes down to self-confidence ... if you believe strongly enough in who you are, there is no need to condemn others who aren't carbon copies
* bottoms_up{RD} scrolls back and claps KO on the back about extreme opinions ;)
* Kilted_One has found that the word respect has several different meanings to different ppl at different times under different circumstances
<canplay> can be polite to those i don't respect, i just would not have relationship with them
<|Karen> so....have we learned anything tonight? :)
<`aqui`> usually what we condem in others is actually the mirrors of what we don't like in ourselves....I find
<bottoms_up{RD}> isnt it that arrogance of the Doms that sometimes attracts us though?
<tvsubbie4you> not really depends on the person.
<^^blush^> every person involved in this lifestyle has different levels that they hope to achieve. The problem is that some are so positive that their level is the only "true" level that they look down on others with different views
* Kilted_One hold back his supper ;)
<^^blush^> of course bottoms!
* Nocturnal` hands bottoms the prize
* crysania^ nods at bottoms
<bottoms_up{RD}> wooo hoo.. what prize do i get? a double floggin???
<bottoms_up{RD}> hehe
<Nocturnal`> was waiting to see who would see that
<bottoms_up{RD}> you know me Noc.. big mouth ;)
<Nocturnal`> lol
* |Karen admits that she does find arrogance attractive to a certain extent...
<crysania^> but also a Dom that approaches with kindness and respect is also very much appreciated
<SkyDom> ooops
<bottoms_up{RD}> we want both ;)
<|Karen> but the single most arrogant person I've also a very respectful gentleman
<Nocturnal`> Sometimes the Dom who approaches with kindness and respect, and not arrogance, is cut off the list for not being "Dom" enough
<^^blush^^> arrogance is attractive when their views are similar to one's own views.. its when they contradict your views that its a bad thing
<bottoms_up{RD}> agreed Noc
<tvsubbie4you> bravo blush
<^^blush^^> *bows*
<`aqui`> funny how that goes blush LOL
<bottoms_up{RD}> woo hoo blush... we are genious's tonight ;)
<^^blush^^> ain't it? lol
<spiritsong> sometimes self confidence can be thought arrogant by some too
<^^blush^^> true
<vixen{KO}> but there are those that seek the arrogant kind and those that seek the opposite....variety is, after all.....thank Goddess
<|Karen> okay, sum, there are no answers?
<crysania^> arrogance and rudeness are not the same thing
<|Karen> no way to educate folks?
* Kilted_One stays away from the arrogance thingy cause it sounds toooo much like him ;)
<^^blush^^> lol KO
* vixen{KO} bites her tongue YET AGAIN
<`aqui`> I think we need to be "honest"...and if someone appears to be rather arrogant....we could "diplomaticaly" suggest that....don't you think?
* |Karen has peeked under KO's kilt and couldn't find an ounce of arrogance :)
<bottoms_up{RD}> lol
<bottoms_up{RD}> yeah Karen but did you see the Dom Stamp??
<vixen{KO}> LOL
<LadySpike> I think we all have it in us to be arrogant tho, however, keeping it in check is the important thing
* crysania^ hands vixen a ball gag to bite on to protect her tongue *lol*
* ^^blush^^ would like to meet the Doms that aqui knows!!!!!
* |Karen nodnods 'yup'
* Kilted_One thinks that Karen is looking for arrogance in all the wrong places
<`aqui`> <ggls>
* |Karen grins at KO
<`aqui`> there are always diplomatic ways of doing anything blush...
<vixen{KO}> thanks for the gag crysania^
<|Karen> there's a key. Keeping arrogance in check
<^^blush^^> <--- not called "diplomatic" often!!! lippy... yes... diplomatic.. don't fink so!
<bottoms_up{RD}> diplomatic? damn, i need to learn that word ;)
<|Karen> LadySpike may have hit the nail on the head....perhaps it's about self-control?
<crysania^> most welcome vixen{KO}
* bottoms_up{RD} winks at blush ;)
* ^^blush^^ nudges bottoms!
<|Karen> it's ok for Doms to be arrogant, but self-control is important?
* bottoms_up{RD} has LITTLE self control.. too greedy and hedonistic ;)
<Leathersmith> some subbies nourish arrogance in their Doms
* Kilted_One is a good chess player
<LadySpike> there is a time and place in bdsm when arrogance is necessary... other times its important to remember we are all human
<^^blush^^> self control? another word to look up huh bottoms???
<vixen{KO}> self control is important no matter which persuasion W/we are....
* Kilted_One and loves checking his mate
<BernieRoehl> I think basic social skills are important. It's possible to be incredibly arrogant and yet not come across as rude.
<bottoms_up{RD}> the old thing.. if a Dom cant control himself.. he isnt safe to play with.. how can he control a sub?
<bottoms_up{RD}> yup blush.. didnt know i would have so much homework from a discussion *pout* lol
<|Karen> ahhhh bottoms...that's a whole other topic:)
* vixen{KO} ^5's bottoms_up{RD}
* Kilted_One agrees wholeheartely with bu
<bottoms_up{RD}> ohhh Bernie.. worded very nicely ;)
<^^blush^^> me toooooooooooooo *whining*
<rbrraincoat> (agreeing with LadySpike)
<`vixie> very true bu!!
<|Karen> care to moderate it in the future? :))
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, bu :-)
* bottoms_up{RD} growls at Karen.. shhhhhh
<LadySpike> so true bottoms... we do need to keep the control aspect in check... ie: keeping a safe environment, however, it is the submissive who truly holds the key
<bottoms_up{RD}> lol
* BernieRoehl perks up and looks at bottoms :-)
* bottoms_up{RD} hides
* BernieRoehl smiles
* `vixie lifts her blanket to expose bu
<|Karen> well, it's 10pm and the discussion is officially over....please feel free to continue talking 'though! :)
<BernieRoehl> Thanks for a great job moderating, Karen!
* `abi waves goodnight
<bottoms_up{RD}> yup LadySpike.. but when i see a Dom out of control.. i RUN for the hills.. with my key in hand *giggles*
<crysania^> Thank You Karen
<rbrraincoat> Interesting discussion
* vixen{KO} shakes the hour glass
* |Karen curtsies to all :)
<bottoms_up{RD}> thank you Karen *warm huggles*
<LadySpike> without the submissives to give themselves to us...We are alone
* Kilted_One thanks Karen
<LadySpike> tucked in a safe place I hope bottoms
<BernieRoehl> I'm going to head off-channel for a bit to process the log
* `vixie hopes vixen remembered to put the top on the hourglass ;)
<Kilted_One> nighters Bernie
<vixen{KO}> oops
<BernieRoehl> See you all!
<^^blush^^> night Bernie
<|Karen> bye Bernie....thanks for helping out with the log :)
<`vixie> bye Bernie
<crysania^> Good Night Bernie
<Nocturnal`> bye Bernie
<spiritsong> bye Bernie
<BernieRoehl> No problem, Karen
<LadySpike> ciao Bernie