May 20 2001 EhBC Online Discussion
<BernieRoehl> It's 9 pm, and time for the discussion to begin
* #bdsm-kw is being logged
<Omy> Hello BernieRoehl :)
* `melody smiles as she crawls to his feet
<kneels> greetings BernieRoehl
<Omy> Hello CuriouserAndcuriouser
* bitch^kat wavs bye bye
<BernieRoehl> I've set an automatic channel message that reads as follows:
<Omy> Hello Evil_Grin
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using twisted.ma.us.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion topic is "Creative Cruelty". The moderator tonight is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<BernieRoehl> So... creative cruelty. The fine art of causing pain, suffering, and passion. :-)
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> i am off again!!!
<BernieRoehl> Anyone have any experience in this area? *smile*
<Omy> Creative Cruelty....ohhhh now's there's a topic to breath new life
<Omy> Well whatever your pleasure I find apprehension a good start
<BernieRoehl> So the anticipation before something is done, as well as the thing itself?
<`TimberWolf> well spoken Omy
* Omy nods at BernieRoehl
<CuriouserAndcuriouser> Here's one to start us off: My friend B is an incredibly creative top. After he beat T for a while with a belt, B called for T to pick a number from 1 to 20. T picked 13, not knowing what that 13 would be. B called for suggestions from those present. 13 orgasms? 13 lashes? 13 needles? M's suggestion won out: 13 strikes after T begged B to stop <grin>.
<kneels> agrees with Omy..i think alot of Doms forget the power of just "them"...the mental subtlty of power shifting
<Omy> One of my favorites...making them walk into the forest and pick out a switch to be used later. Sit at the campsite and slowly wittle at it for awhile.
<`melody> the nervous tension involved makes the entire event ffar more effective..
<BernieRoehl> I like that, CuriouserAndcuriouser!
<CuriouserAndcuriouser> So did B and T!
<Omy> Ohh CuriouserAndcuriouser...that's a good one. Omy files that one away for future use
* `melody knew this topic would haunt me
<BernieRoehl> So... other nasty and devious techniques?
<CuriouserAndcuriouser> I'm excited about the prospect of turning my partner into her own birthday cake. Creative and cruel.
<Omy> I also found that a paper clip installed behind the bud can be worn under sreet clothes
<Omy> street clothes
<`melody> well lets face it many submissives love to be scared... we must suspend reality a bit so we can walk that edge... and the build ups and twists turns aide... makeing us unnerved
<Omy> It has a rather interesting affect doesn't it mel?
<`zee> a sister of mine was simply whispered in her ear on a night that she was going to be pushed at some point. that kept her on pins and needles for a week.
<BernieRoehl> So fear can be a powerful tool, melody?
* `melody blushes yes Master
<opalslv> yes, fear is a powerful tool
<`melody> its a tool.. that can bond.. excite... sometimes teach lessons
<Omy> I think fear is part of the apprehension thing...shear fear would not be good.
<`melody> no f there is shear fear than you dont trust your partner
<`TimberWolf> oh I don't know Omy even shear fear has it's place from time to time
<BernieRoehl> So what is good fear, and what is bad fear?
<Omy> I think bad fear will drive a girl away...may make her safe word..that kind of thing
<arhiannah> i think you need to differentiate between fear & anticipation...personally, i see fear as something dammaging...unhealthy
<opalslv> good fear comes only with trust
<`zee> that question was posed a while back.. if a submissive could feel shear fear from the One she trusts more then anyOne else.
<`TimberWolf> and I think the answer to that is YES....if the proper mindfuck is in place zee
<`melody> there is fear of the unknown.. this is good pleasurable
<arhiannah> i don't fear the unknown...i live in anticipation of what tomorrow will bring...
<`melody> `TimberWolf Sir.. what kind would you describe
<arhiannah> there's a difference...in attitude
* `zee knows she can be her worst mindfuck..all herself.lol
<Omy> yes there is arhiannah
<`TimberWolf> I wouldn't describe any kind...simply stating that if the effort is made a girl can even be taken to a point of shear fear
* Omy looks at zee.. Yes the Alfred Hitchcock theory
<kneels> lol `zee...i am glad i am not the only one that mind fucks herself by mistake
<`zee> excited fear is a stomach in knots, breath quickening experience
<`melody> hyperactive breathing stuttering quivers.. cant raise your eyes
<Omy> I dunno Timber...if she isn't safewording...is it still sheer fear?
<BernieRoehl> Fear... breathing... arousal... it all fits together nicely, doesn't it?
<`zee> i do not do it to myself..it is fuelled till the flame begins then i seem to provide the wind to keep it roaring
<BernieRoehl> It can be a balance between fear and trust, walking that edge
<`TimberWolf> well Omy that depends on if you believe in safewords now doesn't it
<Omy> True Timber
<`melody> fearr has the same endorphins as sexual arousal... .. its a fine line
<`TimberWolf> yes it is melody.....and if care is taken a very interesting line:)
* Omy strokes his girls hair...her 'fear' having been pushed tonight :)
* `melody blushes as she curls her face against his chest
* `zee smiles as the fine line is walked and enjoyed by many
<BernieRoehl> Fear is good, but there are many other ways of being cruel besides fear.
* Omy chuckles and strokes her
<kneels> oh no...i actually get so nervous that i mind fuck myself without trying...usually this is when blindfolded...but then again i have blindfold issues...so i just start imagining things...Dom doesnt even have to do i thing..i mind fuck myself into a fine workup.
<`melody> well not always .. sometimes we have to push the fears to break down barriers so we can grow
* `melody smiles..
* `zee wore panties once by mistake.. had to wear a piece of twine around her waist for a week. reminded her constantly!
<Omy> yes BernieRoehl there is Part 12 Paragraph 3 of the Dom manual that can be cruel. It simply states the Dom/me does not have to be always fair
<celtic`mist> yes, walking around a sub with a lit candle, and her knowing it is there, but not knowing when the drops will hit her, or cracking the whip beside her head a few times before landing the first blow on her body
<celtic`mist> cruel without even touching the sub
* BernieRoehl smiles
<`melody> there is extending a sluts limits pushing her pain thresh hold.. often that is cruel but in the end.. opens new worlds of pleasure
<CuriouserAndcuriouser> spraying the cuts with alcohol, "To cool you down, dear"
<celtic`mist> owwwwieeee
* celtic`mist moves away from CuriouserAndcuriouser
* BernieRoehl smiels -- CuriouserAndcuriouser is *nasty* !
<Omy> I like salt myself
* `melody gasps
<BernieRoehl> Salt... alcohol... maybe tequilla? :-)
<celtic`mist> or ginger?
<Omy> Ginger is excellent
<CuriouserAndcuriouser> kosher salt mixed with alcohol can be quite nice
<`zee> i would like to feel that the creative cruelty is designed with a specific objective in mind.. a plan so to speak.. or do the Dominants wing it a lot as it goes on.
* `zee blocks out of those nasty 'healing'ways she is hearing.
<celtic`mist> the objective is usually to make the subbie squirm
<Omy> Well sometimes there is a plan zee...and sometimes that plan changes as the scene develops
<Omy> The slave may react differently than he wanted them too...or a new twist pops into the Dom/mes head
<BernieRoehl> Yes, a plan is a good starting point, but it shouldn't constrain the Dom. Moments of inspiration happen.
<`zee> so one reaction spurs the Doms reaction and on and on it goes. :)
<Omy> Yes they do...like the rasberry patch tonight..that was one of those moments of inspiration
<BernieRoehl> Rasberry patch?
* `melody turns pale..
<Dragonchaser{fs}> tacks appled to the inside of panties
<`melody> Bernie has seen the farm Master
<Omy> Actually nothing so sinister
<firestarDC> raspberry patch.... owieeeeee
<Omy> mel is on a farm and it is a lovely day..so i told mel to go outside and play with herself
<`melody> the ntire world saw // I swear
<Omy> I dunno..but that vibrator of yours can be heard for 2 city blocks :)
<arhiannah> lol
<`melody> arghhhh
<Omy> Well how about pleasure torments...any ideas on that?
<BernieRoehl> An overdose of pleasure, so to speak?
<BernieRoehl> Too much of a good thing? :-)
<`melody> thats intensely cruel at times
<Omy> Ways of bringing a girlk up in a slow burn.
<`melody> wonders what the subbies feel is cruel.. but sorta like
<Omy> Why don't you lead that question off with an answer girl ;>
<Omy> Hello pandora``, wolf-maiden
* `melody likes when sensations are over lapped.. one on top of another on top of another till i lose control... so intense the feelings i cannot speak.. or control my breathing....
<Dragonchaser{fs}> question
<`melody> the sensations can be sharp soft.. tickleing... strapping combined with soft touch tickling.. different variations
<`zee> that doesn't sound cruel though melody..sounds nice
* Omy looks at Dragonchaser{fs}
<Dragonchaser{fs}> what is the end result of this .. a higher level of awarness or hightened sexuality
<`zee> both Dragonchaser{fs} Sir.. i would think
<`melody> but if its taken tio an extreme.. its cruel.. its so intense.. you vcannot function
<Omy> Its called driving the girl up the wall zee...something I have a knack for with mel :) LOL
<Omy> brb
* Dragonchaser{fs} ponders
<`melody> sometimes creuelty extreme pain.. can bring extreme pleasure
<`melody> depends on the subby...
<`melody> mental emtional physical cruelty all can be used as tools .. to enhance a scene
<`zee> i went to an humiliation workshop in Detroit a bit ago.. they spoke of that
<BernieRoehl> One question we haven't touched on is what exactly we mean by "cruelty"
* `melody listens
<`zee> how even personal things if negotiated or talked about..and the sub/slave wishes to delve into it ..can be healing
<Omy> Anything that makes the slave beg
<Guest38201> what if the Dom is incapable or unqualified to deal with the outcome if the scene takes an unexpected turn from original intent?
<`zee> then i would hope that the Dom would bring her down asap and slowly..offering to seek the help needed for her if she wishes.. W/we are not analysts
<BernieRoehl> Most dictionary definitions talk about getting pleasure from the suffering of others. So... do most of the submissives here feel they're truly "suffering"?
<Omy> cruelty will mean different things to different slaves
<Omy> slaves don't consider the flogger cruel...but take out a wooden paddle and their jaw drops
<Dragonchaser{fs}> or a switch
<`melody> disposed to inflic pain or mercilous...
<Omy> ribbit fr0ggy
<fr0ggy> topic?
<Omy> How to be cruel to frogss err slaves
<fr0ggy> ahhh
<`zee> i agree with Omy Sir.. differnt meanings to different people.. for me, cruelty comes into play with embarrassing, humiliating things
<fr0ggy> just got the msg from bernie
<fr0ggy> heheh
<`melody> no Bernie I cant say I belive I have truely suffered cause I had to comfort of being with someone I trust
<fr0ggy> creative cruelty = bbq sparkers
<fr0ggy> those lil puppies have a nice tingle to them
<Omy> bbq sparkers??? explaing that one please fr0ggy
<CuriouserAndcuriouser> *perk* and they make perfectly square brands. Yummy.
<fr0ggy> those push button peizo electric sparkers to ignite bbq's
<Symmetre> Hello all
<Omy> What do you do with them fr0ggy?
<`melody> have been in an extreme situation that could be titled as cruel.. but I knew I was safe/ I knew it was done for my benefit/ also knew I was being punsished for an act commited... I knew no serious harm or danger would ever befall me...
<`zee> there is a pro Mistress in Toronto that ends her scenes with those hand helf sparklers.. it is quite a finish!!!
<fr0ggy> Omy you ZAP people wif them
<fr0ggy> hehe
<fr0ggy> you push the button
<fr0ggy> the subbie gets da shock
<Omy> Ahh well I like those dog trainers for zapping a slave
<fr0ggy> atach one lead to say the top of the left bumcheek
<fr0ggy> and the other to the bottom of it
<fr0ggy> ;)
<fr0ggy> cheap $12.00
<`melody> isnt cruelty far more intense.. way beyond regular play
<Omy> Hmm interesting concept fr0ggy
<fr0ggy> speaking of cruelty
<Omy> Not necc. mel...you think my paddle is your best friend?
<fr0ggy> i think i'm being ignored.. :/
<`melody> such thoughts should not be spoken in main...
<BernieRoehl> Not at all, fr0ggy!
<`melody> does NOT appreciate the paddle
<fr0ggy> BernieRoehl : lol no by someone who hasnt phonecalled me after saying they would
<Omy> Hello folks! This is a discussion...got to be over 20 people in the room and only 3 talking...we all learn more when we share ideas
<^sky_> being dumped is the most cruel thing
<`zee> creative cruelty.. are W/we saying.. is when imagination teams with the mind?
<`TimberWolf> sorry froggy I decided that even for a streak dinner I won't spank you
<`TimberWolf> hehehehe
<fr0ggy> bah
* `TimberWolf pours frog man some more wine
<fr0ggy> `TimberWolf how many times do I have to tell you, I dont want spanking.
<`TimberWolf> :)
<Opal``> what is the topic again?
<BernieRoehl> "Creative Cruelty"
<Omy> Creative Cruelty
* `Ronin- holds up a glass to TimberWolf for a re-fill
<fr0ggy> i think Ice is used alot for creative cruelty
<fr0ggy> just when your not expecting it *blamo*
<Opal``> and have we discussed where to get ideas if you aren't very creative?
<Omy> ice is wonderful.,.can be used for pleasure and pain
<Dragonchaser{fs}> night all
<`melody> gets a strong imediate reaction lol
<Opal``> ice might be wonderful but not necessarily creative
<Omy> A forum like this is one way Opal
<`zee> yesterday..i was surrounded by uniforms, leather knee high boots, baton sticks and strict looking police and RCMP and i couldt do a thing about it. now that is cruel.. lol
* Opal`` gets out her note pad
<rubberraincoat> Creative cruelty was epitomized by the Batman series; poor Batman and Robin. Always the victims of creative cruelty.
<Opal``> ohhh.. that is *very* cruel zee
* `zee smiles over to `TimberWolf and blushes
<`TimberWolf> and this is in your bedroom zee?
<rubberraincoat> :)
* `zee bursts out laughing
<Opal``> very true rubberraincoat
<fr0ggy> lol
<rubberraincoat> Sorry. Very poor contribution to the discussion.
<Opal``> and they must be on video somewhere
<Symmetre> The big question is, what constitutes cruelty? Is is depriving something that a person really wants? Taunting them? what's creative depends on the ppl involved and what, for them, constitutes "normal"
<Omy> Hello carole{GP}
* fr0ggy shrugs
<fr0ggy> i guess creative would be the un-expected
<`melody> what may be cruel to me.. may not be so to another
<fr0ggy> oh my good lord, mulder and scully doing the ole smoocheroo
<Symmetre> creative cruelty = going way above and beyong the call?
<Omy> Agreed Symmetre..taunting and making them hold out works
<fr0ggy> pardon me
<Opal``> Bernie is very creative... maybe he has some suggestions
* BernieRoehl smiles
<BernieRoehl> I do, but unfortunately we're out of time :-)
<Opal``> egadsss
<Symmetre> Creative cruelty for my last subbie was having her march across the floor of the Limelight dragging a little toy duckie behind her ... it's string attached to her butt plug.
<BernieRoehl> It's just turned 10 pm, so I'm going to close the log and start processing and uploading it
<BernieRoehl> Thanks for participating, everyone!