May 9, 2004 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Rights of Ownership". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<Prathen> Ah, here we go, its 9pm, and no Bernie
<`abi> it's okay Prathen ... we're allowed to talk without Bernie
<sarahfree> lolol
<pandora``> we are??????
<`abi> he just takes notes
<sarahfree> the rules changed ?
<`abi> and I think he passes them too, although I'm not positive
<sarahfree> i was brb.. smile..
* `abi grins ... hell Bernie
<`abi> oops
<`abi> hello Bernie
<pandora``> hi Bernie
<Prathen> LOL
<BernieRoehl> hell to you too, abi
<Prathen> Did you hear me or something Bernie?
<`abi> lol
* BernieRoehl smiles
* Prathen reposes his last post
<Prathen> Ah, here we go, its 9pm, and no Bernie
<BernieRoehl> For a change, I'm actually here for the discussion! (Been busy for a number of Sundays now)
<BernieRoehl> I'll miss next week's, though, because of KNaNO
<BernieRoehl> So... "Rights of Ownership". The broad question is... "what rights does an owner have over his or her property?"
<jewel`{F}> could there also not be rights to being owned?
<BernieRoehl> Absolutely, jewel`{F}
<BernieRoehl> So... anyone care to offer some thoughts?
<QTIP> being responsible for even parts of another's life is a often a daunting task
<Prathen> What rights does a owner have?
<Prathen> The right to know the truth
<DarkAngel^{a}> Select those areas that you DO wish to take control of
<DarkAngel^{a}> and be consistent
<Rufrider`> I only really have the rights that a sub is willing to hand over, some I want and some I dont want
<Rufrider`> I ll push a little but not much
<Prathen> yeah, I would call it more of a privlage
<jen{SE}> what "rights" do the Dominants want in general?
<DarkAngel^{a}> I guess the rights depend upon the relationship
<_dove{S}> Would the rights not depend on the negotiations?
<DarkAngel^{a}> yup
<Rufrider`> opps brb
<DarkAngel^{a}> personally ,, in my relationship ,,, I own my slave
<DarkAngel^{a}> thus I have the pre-set right to decide what controls I wish to exert
<dana_foreveralways> wouldnt the rights be more about the individuals involved and what is right for them... for myself i tend to follow my Dom
<Prathen> yes, they would be dana
<BernieRoehl> I think it does depened on the individuals, and the dynamics of the relationship between them
<Prathen> It would be diffrent between each person, and what they feel comfortable with
<Prathen> But trust is a part of every one, or at least should be
<Prathen> And so is honesty
<BernieRoehl> However, DA raises a good point -- quite often, the most basic right is simply being able to decide what to control (and what not to)
<dana_foreveralways> has felt like i was owned... belonged completely to Him... but it was also a matter of taking time to discuss and get to know each Oother
<DarkAngel^{a}> there can be a wide range of degrees of Power Exchange ,,, from TPE to a kinky roll play/bedroom submission
* DarkAngel^{a} pats his slaves sexy head ,,,
<aurelle{DA}> i followed my gut and my heart and felt that i could trust my Master enough to let him decide what rights he wanted
<DarkAngel^{a}> and now she follows my beconing finger ,,, *Demonic Smile*
<dana_foreveralways> im the same way aurelle... He lead i followed...
<dana_foreveralways> not blindly but because of the Man He was...
* aurelle{DA} smiles exactly
<jewel`{F}> i think to that as a relationship grows that the rights expected become more as well
<dana_foreveralways> and i guess my needs to just melt into Him
<Prathen> I hope I will be able to gain such trust
<pandora``> is it trust, or is it that the bottom respects the decisions that the top is making?
<dana_foreveralways> so true jewel... if Wwe dont grow within the relationship... wouldnt it become routine...
<Omy> That brings an interesting question to mind...does a slave have rights? or are they privilages?
<aurelle{DA}> i have the right to be loved, cared for, and cherished
<Omy> I would agree with that aurelle{DA}
<owned> i have the right to leave the relationship should i so choose
<jewel`{F}> as well as a right to honesty
<DarkAngel^{a}> my duty in owning a person ,, is to ensure their well being
<dana_foreveralways> a bit of both maybe... i trusted Him and how He made decisions... taking time to reflect instead of reacting
<Omy> Just after I typed that...I was thinking I should of changed the word "rights" to limits
<aurelle{DA}> i agree jewel
<DarkAngel^{a}> exactly owned ,, IMO ,, that is the one right a slave retains ,,, other than those negociated
<Omy> I think both parties have the right to expect honor...Trust, Open and Honest Communication, and Respect
<Omy> Are they rights that are negotiated or limits?
<aurelle{DA}> well put Sir
<QTIP> agreed, Omy. i tend to think the 3 legs on which this type of relationship stands stably are Truth/Trust/Love
* Prathen nods his head in agreement
<lil^tigress> I believe there is four .. also respect for where are we if we do not respect one another
<lamby`> imo, some of those choices are subjective...isn't my ability to be honest based on how honest i choose to be with myself?
<Omy> Love is something that develops over time...if you don't have mutual respect, open and honest communication, Trust and consent...I would think its hard to have Love
<jen{SE}> the right to have your needs met and the He maintains the same... the right to have His needs met.
<Omy> this is true thyself be true
<QTIP> respect is part of the subjective way i describe love
<lamby`> may i ask where integrity comes into play in that formula?
* DarkAngel^{a} sits back and watches as he now begins consuming the huge steak from the BBQ
<jen{SE}> His needs determine what rights He wants, and my needs hopefully match...
<QTIP> the larger part of my description of love is: acceptance without need to agree
* aurelle{DA} drools
<dana_foreveralways> but does a submissive's needs have to be met...
* DarkAngel^{a} cuts a small dripping piece and puts a small plate on the floor for his toy
<aurelle{DA}> i think so
<Omy> Integrity is very important in a Dominant...for it is through integrity a submissive can Trust
<jen{SE}> yes dana_foreveralways, this is a relationship, if you were not getting any needs met, why would you be there?
<dana_foreveralways> the basic ones absolutely... but all needs?
<QTIP> trust can be granted. trust can be earned. earned trust has more worth
<aurelle{DA}> needs or wants?
<Omy> Not all needs can be fulfilled by the Dominant...some of those needs the submissive has to fill themselves
<aurelle{DA}> needs, yes
<aurelle{DA}> wants, whenever they are granted lol
<jen{SE}> i want the sun, star, moon, i "need" less
<dana_foreveralways> smiles as the light goes on... ok... was thinking wants and not needs... grins
<DarkAngel^{a}> well as for power exchange ,,, some see a distinction between a slave and a submissive
<jen{SE}> and when it running on all cylinders i get it all
<DarkAngel^{a}> lol,,, true jen{SE}
<aurelle{DA}> lol jen{SE}
<Omy> as an example..a submissive has a need to maintain relationships ,,,friends and family...those are things they must do for themselves. All the Dominant can do is ensure she has adequate time to do so
<Omy> I agree DA and the difference between the two is the level of power exchange.
<DarkAngel^{a}> agreed Brother
<Omy> In my own mind...when a slave begs for the Dominants collar they give up all rights to having limits. The limits are given to the Dominant to take care of
<jen{SE}> not always Omy, in some cases limits still come into it via negotiations...
<jen{SE}> specially if children are involved..
<`abi> everyone has limits .. all that happens in a so-called no-limits relationships is that the limits have been pre-set .... as Midori says .."do you want to be alive at the end of the scene? Yes? Let's start from there and work back"
<Omy> as a submissive I would agree jen...but as a slave I wouldn't
<jen{SE}> what if the Dominant said,, i don't want the kids around??
<Omy> the slave trusts that their Dominant will Respect their limits even though she does not have ownership of them.
<jen{SE}> *lol*, i like that saying abi.. will have to remember it
<DarkAngel^{a}> jen{SE} ,, I allow input from my property ,, then I make a decision ,,, based on that , I have decided that ruining her family or career is not in her or my best interest
<lil^tigress> would depend on when they weren't wanted around... if all the time then something wrong..
<DarkAngel^{a}> BUT ,,, she has no limits not pre-allowed by me
<`abi> If you say you have no limits, what you really mean is that you trust the Dominant to have the same limits as you do
<Omy> Then the Dominant shouldn't be in the relationship...they need to be Open and Honest about that from the beginning
<jen{SE}> agrees with abi....
<`abi> ie...You *know* you're going to be alive at the end of the day, You *know* he isn't going to ruin your family etc. etc.
<Omy> Limits are fluid
<aurelle{DA}> i trust my Master not to do anything that would harm me
<aurelle{DA}> mentally or physically
<aurelle{DA}> he knows where my concerns lie, and he knows what things are unhealthy to pursue
<jen{SE}> ahh but what if He were to pursue them...
<Omy> Look at yourself at the beginning of your journey and look at yourself 6 months down the is likely that some of the hard limits become softer and the soft limits might not be there
<DarkAngel^{a}> but --- I have also taken her places she NEVER would have even dreamed of going ,,,, because she trusts me ,,,, and has given herself over to me
<Omy> Then jen he is not being open and honest nor is he bening respectful
<DarkAngel^{a}> lol,,, I have jen{SE}
<Omy> Now if the submissive consents to having a limit pushed, then all is well
<aurelle{DA}> then he would be treading on thin ice, on a hot day...the only things i would have set as limits are those that would be unhealthy, either mentally or physically, to pursue...i trust Master not to go where i wouldnt be able to handle it
<DarkAngel^{a}> pushed her past her prior limits , that is
<DarkAngel^{a}> prior limits ,,, as there are no pressent ones
<aurelle{DA}> thus, i don't feel the need for limits
<dana_foreveralways> nods with aurelle... so understands that...
<DarkAngel^{a}> ok ,,, so what about submissive Dom type relationships ,,, " what rights are people comfortable in giving over ?"
<jen{SE}> i have given over most if not all, reserves the right to be opinionated.... *loL*
<dana_foreveralways> lol
<aurelle{DA}> LOL
<DarkAngel^{a}> lol ,, that comes with the XX chromosone pairing jen{SE} *Evil wink*
<aurelle{DA}> i am opinionated, whether i have the right or not
* aurelle{DA} ducks
<jen{SE}> *lol*
<dana_foreveralways> lol
<DarkAngel^{a}> lol
* DarkAngel^{a} files that one away
<aurelle{DA}> i just have to work hard to present them at the right moment, in the right way
<Omy> is that during a blowjob aurelle{DA}? <eg>
<DarkAngel^{a}> she doesnt talk with her mouth full
<Omy> 1Laughing 140ut 1Loud
<jewel`{F}> it is all in the wording of what you say, as much as the timing of it
<aurelle{DA}> LOL, he wouldn't hear me then Sir, with his ears ringing and all
<DarkAngel^{a}> I have trained my slave to "belly" when she wishes a special request ,,,it puts her in a totaly submissive position ,, and me in an open accepting mood
* jen{SE} owns nothing
<Omy> not quite jen{SE} always own the right to leave the relationship
* DarkAngel^{a} strikes jen{SE} off his list of people to borrow $5 from
<jen{SE}> i would have to take it out of my allowance DA... *lol*
<jen{SE}> i do not own my time
<_dove{S}> How so jen?
<DarkAngel^{a}> shhh jen{SE} ,,, you are turning me on ,,, D/s ,,MMmm sexy
* jen{SE} looks at the chanel.. it is a D/s chanel... *lol*
<Omy> the crack of dawn turns you on Brother\
<aurelle{DA}> Master, almost everything turns you on...
<Omy> GMTA aurelle{DA} 1Laughing 140ut 1Loud
<jen{SE}> hmm thought her name was aurelle{DA} Omy... not dawn
<Omy> 1Laughing 140ut 1Loud jen
<aurelle{DA}> LOL
<DarkAngel^{a}> so ,, back to the ORRIGIONAL discussion ,,,,,, what rights (pls be specific) whould/have you given up (sub/slaves) or expected (Dom)
* aurelle{DA} blushes
<aurelle{DA}> who's dawn, can i meet her?
* DarkAngel^{a} winks at his whore
* aurelle{DA} snickers
<DarkAngel^{a}> ok ,, to lead off ,,,, I expect the right of sexual ownership
<Omy> I agree DA
* DarkAngel^{a} states the obvious, ,, but I was first ,, so naaawww
<aurelle{DA}> lol
<aurelle{DA}> oops
<Omy> I own the body and her time
<DarkAngel^{a}> any sub/slaves ?
<Omy> I expect her to honor her training at all times
<kimochi> i have given up the right to go through a door ahead of Mistress
<DarkAngel^{a}> very nice kimochi
<aurelle{DA}> i have given up the right to eat without permission
<DarkAngel^{a}> and I only had to disipline her a few times ,,lol
<aurelle{DA}> once
<kimochi> i have given up the right to refuse to do something that i do not wish to do, but Mistress does
<Omy> I expect her to take care of herself...mind, body and soul. If she doesn't, then how can she expect to serve me in the matter I desire and expect
<DarkAngel^{a}> I have taken away the right to decide if she can go tot he bathroom
<jen{SE}> it is hard to articulate what rights individually were given up, i would say i gave up to right to think of myself as a separate person, what i do affects Him
<aurelle{DA}> hey, that was my next one
<kimochi> i have to ask to go to the washroom, too
<jewel`{F}> i have given up the right of my appearance, He chooses how i dress, wear my hair
<Omy> good ones jewel
<aurelle{DA}> i have given up the right to argue till he is blue in the face
<aurelle{DA}> LOL
<lamby`> do you call from work and ask permission, aurelle{DA}?
<jewel`{F}> the right to speak freely with out permission
<Omy> probably a good thing aurelle{DA}..otherwise you could be blue on the butt
<DarkAngel^{a}> no lamby` ,,, I have allowed her that ,,, but she has to wake me up at night to go ,,,, as I chain her to my bed at night *innocent grin*
<aurelle{DA}> only when i am with him kimochi
<aurelle{DA}> but Omy, Sir, isnt blue in the butt a good thing
<lamby`> i'd be grouching in the am, if i didn't get a good nights rest..:)
<Omy> <slaps forehead> I forgot your a pain slut my dear aurelle{DA}
<DarkAngel^{a}> lol
<aurelle{DA}> oops sorry kimochi, that was in answer to lamby
<kimochi> i've given up the right to dive into the food in front of me before Mistress eats (even if i'm starving to death)
<DarkAngel^{a}> I also decide what she eats ,,, kind of makes many waitresses look funny ,, I order for her and dont even ask her ,, lol
<Omy> and there is the right to sit on furniture
<jewel`{F}> i was about to say the i the same thing from the other side DarkAngel^{a}
* jen{SE} smiles sadly at aurelle{DA}, i have ended up eating some nasty things that way....
<aurelle{DA}> lol Omy, Sir...i didn't think that was possible
<DarkAngel^{a}> ahhh another ,,, I have taken the power that she isnt allowed to hug others without my permission
<aurelle{DA}> shhh jen{SE}, you will give him ideas
<aurelle{DA}> lol
<Omy> If I may the beginning the Dominant can have the girl pick three things from the menu and the Dominant will chose what they eat...until they get to know the dietary restrictions
* jen{SE} octopus, crawdads, alligator,,, etc. etc...
<jen{SE}> great diet though
<aurelle{DA}> that is a great idea Sir, Master allows input, and then decides
<DarkAngel^{a}> lol
* aurelle{DA} gags, in a bad way
<Omy> Ahh jen you should try a raw sea cucumber
<DarkAngel^{a}> jen{SE} , I make her eat more vegitables
* aurelle{DA} runs for the washroom
<aurelle{DA}> lol
<aurelle{DA}> i need that thought
<jen{SE}> hey you didnt ask permission to run....
<aurelle{DA}> <----- no self discipline lol
<aurelle{DA}> lol
<DarkAngel^{a}> I am working on her
<aurelle{DA}> well not when it comes to veggies
<kimochi> i do not have the right to remain silent
<jen{SE}> hardest for me to give up was financial and interfere with my family
<kimochi> or the right to keep talking
<aurelle{DA}> ooo good one kimochi
<kimochi> or the right to an attorney
<aurelle{DA}> lol
<jen{SE}> or an undertaker????
* jen{SE} just kidding....
<DarkAngel^{a}> *Demonic Smirk*
<kimochi> anything i say can and will be used against me
<DarkAngel^{a}> yummy
<aurelle{DA}> sounds familiar
<Omy> that goes withouy saying kimochi ;)
<DarkAngel^{a}> my slut is deathly afraid of the singletial ,, so I bought 2
<kimochi> and anything i don't say can & will be used against me
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
* jewel`{F} notices a lot of similarities in the expectations of Dominants
<jen{SE}> don't even have to say it, journals are a good source....
<aurelle{DA}> :P
<Omy> I have taken the right for a girl to cum...she has to beg for permission
<Prathen> Bernie, when this ends, can I have a moment of your time?
<DarkAngel^{a}> very true jen{SE} ,,, I have ordered my slave to use a journal ,,, I read it
<DarkAngel^{a}> damn Brother Omy ,,, lol,, I forgot that one
<DarkAngel^{a}> but I will add ,,, I have trained my slave to cumm on command ,, she no longer even ownes her bodies reactions
<jewel`{F}> what about the privilege of self pleasure
<BernieRoehl> Sure, Prathen
<aurelle{DA}> *pout
<Omy> She has no right to self pleasure
<jewel`{F}> i have to ask permission to masturbate
<DarkAngel^{a}> would have to be asked for jewel`{F}
<kimochi> i have the right to self pleasure ... if that's what Mistress wishes
<Omy> yes DA I have done that as well...and used it in a few inopportune times <eg>
<DarkAngel^{a}> in fact ,, I often order my slut to masturbate ,,, for my entertainment
<kimochi> Mistress says that i can masturbate all i want ... i just can't cum without permission
<CuriousCat13> Hi A/all
<kimochi> (sadist)
<aurelle{DA}> what would have to be asked for Master?
<DarkAngel^{a}> to masturbate dear
<aurelle{DA}> ah
<DarkAngel^{a}> buhbu
<Omy> Yes kimochi, I have done that as fact I have on occasion forced them to masterbate on a honurly basis to the point of cumming and stop
<kimochi> i've given up the right to keep secrets
<Omy> err horly
<Omy> err hourly..damn fingers
<DarkAngel^{a}> typing one handed Brother Omy ?
<kimochi> (don't tell Her i said that)
<Omy> yes I have a beer in the other Brother 1Laughing 140ut 1Loud
<aurelle{DA}> lol
<annabelle_lee> lol
<DarkAngel^{a}> I put mine down to type ,, lol
* jen{SE} waves goodnight
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<jewel`{F}> the right to stay up late