April 25, 2004 EhBC Online Discussion

<ModBot> This message is generated by Moderator Bot, ModBot for short. I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "The Journal as a Communications Tool". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<`TimberWolf> yes
<laralynn> I didn't know that
<BernieRoehl> In fact, I can probably chat with you while the discussion is in progress. Feel free to pm me.
<becky> laralynn.. He used to be my neibour...lol
<Prathen> Thank you
<BernieRoehl> With any luck, ModBot should work this week
<BernieRoehl> So, has anyone here used a journal
<BernieRoehl> ?
<laralynn> yep
<delyssa> yessums
<delyssa> and still do
<dana{TJ}> is starting to use one again
* Prathen wonders if by that you mean something like Live Journa?
<Prathen> er, Journal
<laralynn> I have a question first though...who had the cold at last weeks brunch I wanna kick them in the shins
<dana{TJ}> lol
* BernieRoehl smiles
<BernieRoehl> I'm healthy so far *touch wood*
<BernieRoehl> No cold yet
* `TimberWolf touches his woodie too
* delyssa coughs
<`TimberWolf> no cold here either
* Prathen keeps his shins safe, he did not make the brunch, only found out about everything here Wednesday
<BernieRoehl> For those of you who do use journals, can you give us some insight into what sort of things you put in them?
<delyssa> BernieRoehl, may I PM for a min?
<BernieRoehl> Welcome, Prathen
<laralynn> now it's more though it turned into pnuemonia and I was at emerg friday night to get anti biotics for it damn thing
<BernieRoehl> Of course, delyssa
<delyssa> Well, as everyone else is being so quiet re. journals, I've used them for different reasons in the context of exploring bdsm.
<aymelek> i started one just about a month ago, wish i had done it 2 1/2 years ago
<aymelek> He's never read it, but told me He may at some point
<BernieRoehl> Can you expand on that, delyssa? Perhaps give examples of how you've journals in the past.
<dana{TJ}> is looking for some insight as to the use of journals... lately ive been going through some rather rough times so now i try to write only the positive
<delyssa> Well, on its most basic level, it's an enduring record of my thoughts, feelings, concerns, successes, etc., that I can go back to over time.
<delyssa> It's also a way that I can capture immediate thoughts and go back and review them after a day or two.
<aymelek> i often make note of thoughts that come to me through the day, and find as i am writing in my journal, the thought expands and i understand things more clearly
<delyssa> It's also a "safe" way to communicate some things, if I don't have the courage to do so directly, but I do try to ensure it doesn't become an ongoing 'letter' to my Dominant.
<delyssa> exactly aymelek
<aymelek> it's very useful to go back and reflect on how happy i was to come to a clearer understanding of things, and often it will be a similar situation that is causing me conflicting emotions
<`TimberWolf> I have found it to be a useful tool in our relationship Bernie
* delyssa wonders about TW's relationship with Bernie.
<BernieRoehl> In terms of gaining insight, TimberWolf?
* BernieRoehl smiles
<laralynn> I sort of messed up when I started mine and for a whole week it was public reading material and I never knew it...I have had a website up on angelfire for two years now and it gets ALOT of traffic...well when I saw they had the blog option I decided to start using it...when I did that it overwrote my main page of my website
<dana{TJ}> thats a good point delyssa about it not becoming a letter
<aymelek> it also helps when things get a little rough, to be able to go back and see just how much He means to me
<`TimberWolf> exactly....and as a follow up tool to ensure lessions were understood...etc
<BernieRoehl> I'm fairly confident that "our" referred to TW's relationship with *you*, delyssa
<delyssa> yes, dana{TJ}, and I've also learned to try not to let it be a record of mundane things... "got up, had breakfast, worked a lot", etc.
* delyssa grins at Bernie.
* starla{TDM} listens..wiggles her toes
<`TimberWolf> although Bernie is kinda cute:)
<laralynn> lol
<Shoshin> 2I use LiveJournal, journalling can be useful for the unattaced person too
<dana{TJ}> lol... just stopped doing that also..
<aymelek> no it's not a diary, it's a journal *smiles* i had a bit of a hard time with that
* BernieRoehl chuckles @ TW
<aymelek> glad to see i wasn't alone
<starla{TDM}> is there a difference between a diary and a journal?
<laralynn> don't think so starla
<laralynn> I read yours btw
<aymelek> i think so, a diary captures the day's events
<tender_heart> 126 think so too
<aymelek> a journal is more about feelings and thoughts
<starla{TDM}> ohh thank you laralynn and its back open
<starla{TDM}> ohh see i never thought of it i just figure i write what i feel thoughts days events..Masters
<tender_heart> 6 and too I think a journal is meant to be for someone else to read and add something too
* delyssa can't imagine anyone but TW reading the journal... and sometimes can't even imagine him reading it.
<`TimberWolf> I aklways believed that a diary is used as a log of daily activities
* aymelek agrees with TW
<`TimberWolf> yest a journal explores deeper thoughts...feeling..insights
<aymelek> emotions
<aymelek> more in depth
<jewel`{F}> i keep a journal and it is a bit of both for me
<Shoshin> In my Livejournal, I can make it public, private or set what friends can read it & give feedback, I find that very helpful, so far I have kept it private & friends only
<delyssa> I try to only include incidental stuff to put the entry in context. So I might say what I was doing that day if it will help to anchor that journal in my memory.
<`TimberWolf> but I don't think there is a right way or wrong way of doing it
* starla{TDM} journal is public..and on her own website
<tender_heart> 6 dear diary... the thoughts you tell no one else... journal keeping track of events and activities... but also open to someone else to feed back
<jewel`{F}> sometimes knowing what i had to cope with through the day helps both Master and myself to understand why i may be acting or feeling the way i am
<aymelek> sometimes i don't write for a week or more, it's only when i feel something substantial needs noted
<`TimberWolf> aslong as it works for you.,,,,and you see worth in the effort
<aymelek> i think it can be whatever the person writing needs it to be for them
<tender_heart> 6 true aymelek
<Shoshin> true, when I am down, I can go back over my positive entries & recall the good feelings
<aymelek> i went through such a hard time, i couldn't even think straight, then when i came around again, i decided to start mine, so i had a place to go if it ever happened again
<Shoshin> I can also read the journals of certain friends who have approved me & give them support & feedback
<starla{TDM}> there is a website up..called..hmmm kindlings..i think..and it has stuff posted everyday to help stimulate your brian..things to write or think about when you get that bloack
<aymelek> Shoshin that is kind of what i meant earlier, when i said, if things get tough, i can go back and reinforce how much He means to me. It could be any kind of situation though.
<dana{TJ}> smiles... made the mistake of writing when i couldnt see straight.. good grief...
<aymelek> dana{TJ} i made that mistake and sent it to my Master *laughs* huge mistake!
<Shoshin> yep, gets me in practice should I ever find a Dom, or if I ever have a sub I want to journal for me
<dana{TJ}> omg
<dana{TJ}> lol
<dana{TJ}> is having a bonfire... grins
<Shoshin> *lol* thats an oops
<aymelek> not impressed! *laughs
<starla{TDM}> couldnt see straight as in your were angry?
<aymelek> i wasn't angry, i was drinking, and feeling a little neglected
<aymelek> you know "woe is me, nobody loves me" hehehehehe
<dana{TJ}> hurt angry frustrated... on top of major family issues...
<starla{TDM}> so that is wrong to do?
<aymelek> depending on what is said
<dana{TJ}> yup yup yup.. our own pity party
<starla{TDM}> but isnt that the best time to journal
<dana{TJ}> lol
<starla{TDM}> when your having issues so the Master can know
<aymelek> "issues" should be discussed sober i'd think
<delyssa> I'm nto sure, starla{TDM}... I actually don't like journaling when I know I'm in a negative mood. Not that I want to ignore some thoughts, but I do try to journal them in ways that are productive when I can.
<Shoshin> especially if you call Master a major doodoo head or some such sentiment
<dana{TJ}> perhaps starla.. afterwards you see just how blind you can be... how silly you behaved when you lost your way
<starla{TDM}> but isnt it more realistic to jouranl..when your in a bad mood just as well as in a good mood..we aint perfect right..so why journal when all is good
<dana{TJ}> ya just dont want Aanyone seeing it..lol
<laralynn> I only use it for when I'm pissed off about something lol
<aymelek> if i'm down, i will usually wait till i'm feeling better, or understand why i was down, then write about it and why i think it was resolved
<dana{TJ}> in a bad mood is a little different from totally losing it
<delyssa> yes, but if you write mostly when you're in a bad mood, can't that taint the overall feel of the journal?
<Shoshin> I find writing the bad & the good gives me a chance to look back to see how far I have come
<starla{TDM}> but if you write only one your in a good mood and all is well aint that being unrealistic
<aymelek> it's amazing to be able to realize the changes!
<dana{TJ}> i think so delyssa... which is why for now im working on only seeing the positive
<laralynn> not particularly for me since I mostly use it to mouth off about what's bothering me and then for me it's like water under the bridge and becomes a moot point
<aymelek> some take so long, and some happen so fast
<delyssa> oh, Shoshin... I'm not saying htat the "bad" shouldn't be written about... but it can possibly be more productive if you let things settle a bit.
<aymelek> dana{TJ} that was my point about waiting till i'm cooled off, write after the fact, but be sure to write
<Shoshin> i do that from time to time, but living alone, my journal is a place to put down my thoughts, good or bad, then i can reread them & see how the solution came about
<starla{TDM}> i write about the good the bad the ugly..i write when i am pissed at Master or at the world as well as when life is good..altho lately i been homesick so lol
<delyssa> true, Shoshin... if my journal was 100% private, I might be more free with my tone and content.
<aymelek> homesick is a VERY hard thing to deal with
<Shoshin> delyssa, i can understand that
<delyssa> but I'm sure TW would say I'm not too shy about expressing frustration, anger, pissiness, etc., in my journal at odd times.
* `TimberWolf smiles
<aymelek> so far mine has been, but it may not always be, so that's why i never write until i feel better and can rationalize, but i still always write
<Shoshin> we each have our own style & have to stay true to ourselves
<aymelek> if we don't our journals won't be truly ours
<aymelek> we still have to write for ourselves
<delyssa> Well... here's a question. Who "owns" a journal that is done at a Dominant's command? The Dominant or the submissive?
<starla{TDM}> thats so true aymelek, i write for myself..i have alot of readers and thats cool..but ultimately i write for me..and then for Master so He can see what is going on
<aymelek> i write for myself, and my journal is my own, He promised when i asked if i could have one, that it would be mine, and He may ask to read it, but i don't HAVE to give it to Him
<starla{TDM}> i have to give mine to Him
<aymelek> if He asks, of course i will give it to Him, that's why i never write angry
<aymelek> i am 100% honest in it when i do write
<aymelek> if i don't feel i can put my feelings into words, i don't write
<BernieRoehl> So is there any downside to journaling?
<starla{TDM}> it sucks at times BernieRoehl Sir..
<aymelek> i could see there being a downside if i wrote ANGRY and He demanded to read it
<delyssa> it's hard if it's required whether you're in the mood or not.
<dana{TJ}> when you cant find the words... it can be torture...lol
<aymelek> sometimes i'd have nothing to write!
<starla{TDM}> you know..when things arent just right..and Master knows..the writing is a good way to open the line of communication and He wants you to write
<delyssa> and the only other downside to journalling would be if people without scruples gained access to it... could be an invasion of privacy then.
<aymelek> starla can it cause disagreements though? what if He doesn't like what is said, or you don't like His response to what you wrote?
* `TimberWolf has no scruples
* delyssa chuckles
* aymelek has heard that hehehehehe
<delyssa> So you keep telling me, Sir.
<starla{TDM}> no disagreements..He is the Master..so i rarely disagree with Him
<`TimberWolf> can't say you weren't warned:)
* DarkAngel^{a} has 2 scruples ,, but I lent one to Bernie a while ago and he hasent returned it yet
<`abi> don't you think he has a right to see your anger aymelek?
<`TimberWolf> KO had my last one ...and he lost it
<dana{TJ}> smiles
* BernieRoehl chuckles
<Prathen> Dont'w worry TimerWolf, I am sure it will find its way home to you
<aymelek> `abi yes He does, and He has, i just don't like that side of myself, and would rather no one sees it...LOL
* aymelek is a redhead, bad temper LOL
<`TimberWolf> time will tell Prathen:)
<`abi> so, is a journal just a place to put the things you like?
* `TimberWolf is a BALD HEAD, bad temper
<`abi> or should it be a reflection of what is actually going on in your head?
<starla{TDM}> not for me abi..it has everything
<delyssa> I've found that, in general terms, what I write in my journal is taken much better than trying to communicate the same negative feelings in a direct conversation. Most of that is that I do try to phrase things respectfully, and also try to explain myself so that he can understand instead of just venting. Also, my journal has always felt "safe" in that I can express things there, and have them listened to.
<DarkAngel^{a}> I have set up a Journal for my slave to write ,,, I expect several entries a week ,, I dont stipulate daily as she doesnt always have access or time ,,, exam week for example
<starla{TDM}> rants about the business and customers..about Master..the good and bad
<aymelek> my journal is mostly for things i find important to remember, and things that come to me like "WOW the light just came on!" lol "now i understand!"
<`abi> which may be a valid reason to write about what makes you angry aymelek .. that can be very revealing
<aymelek> and i do `abi, but not until i'm cool and ummmmmm rational
<aymelek> i will not write "that %&*#$ did this or that and it pissed me off because......
<aymelek> chances are, an hour from now, that won't be how i feel, so why bother?
<[ravna]FW> hi
<`abi> perhaps because it's important that you feel that way now
<`abi> it's the what comes after 'because....' that can be enlightening
<aymelek> if it's not going to be a lasting thing, or an ongoing thing, it's not that important to me that it needs to be journalized
<aymelek> when i'm calm, i will write that i was angry or upset, and why
<[ravna]FW> a journal done at diff points,,, can be a reflection of the thought process. or a cronology of the learning process
<Prathen> Hi ravna
* `abi smiles...well, it's your journal, so you certainly shouldn't be writing what's important to me ;)
<[ravna]FW> ahhhhh but tis important to the sub and her DOm
<aymelek> it's still very good to understand maybe why others write and when they do though
<aymelek> my journal is so new, i have no idea what it is for anyone else to keep one
<Prathen> I have a journal, but I never actually write in it.
<aymelek> i do wish i had started when i met my Master, that was a while ago, He was the first One i met and never even knew what BDSM was, it would have been fun to read now!
<`abi> http://www.pantheus.com/guest.shtml
<`abi> a reference
* aymelek cannot remember how to copy links
<`abi> you should be able to just click on it aymelek
<aymelek> mever mind....lol
<aymelek> DUH
<BernieRoehl> Or double-click it
<aymelek> i will look at it later, i just wanted to mark it
<BernieRoehl> Has anyone here ever looked back at journals from years (and possibly relationships) gone by?
<[ravna]FW> sure thing
<starla{TDM}> i look back with Master and mine BernieRoehl..not that long but three years ago..when i was still in canada..see lots of changes..
<[ravna]FW> found that the thoughts , ponderinigs at the time. were like hints of things to come... if only I had back tracked then
<aymelek> i would love to have a journal from even 2 years ago, my own memories let me be amazed at the changes, i wish i had more to go on
<BernieRoehl> Backtracked, [ravna]FW?
<[ravna]FW> re read it then , might have changed the the order of events
<[ravna]FW> I might have dumped the jerk long before all those years passed.............. lollll
<[ravna]FW> as for the journal now............ w Master it is so gratefull in the reading the awakinging,,,, watching things come to pass that we talked about before..... watching me grow after changing my life
<aymelek> my Master's memory is so good about most things He is my journal as far as changes go, but He has no idea as to what i thought about the changes as they were happening
<[ravna]FW> thats why you do it
<aymelek> i was so timid and scared, i was so shy
<aymelek> yes, i wish i had thought about keeping one back then
<aymelek> i think a journal should be an idea offered to each newbie by all of us, it can become an important tool
<aymelek> do Dom/mes ever keep journals? (just wondering, and if not, then why?)
<aymelek> They are always growing and learning too
<[ravna]FW> I have seen a couple online
<BernieRoehl> I haven't, though it's not a bad idea. Not that I have time, of course.
<Prathen> I may keep one, since I do have one that I never use
<aymelek> i've never heard of one
<Prathen> Since I am new to all this, it may be helpful
* aymelek agrees Prathen
<aymelek> i can't see how it wouldn't be good for B/both, even if the Dom didn't share with the sub/slave, it would be good for Him/Her
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<starla{TDM}> Master has a journal part in mine..cept He rarely writes..time constraints
<aymelek> i think if mine was read regularly, i would want comments added too
<starla{TDM}> comments are always good..neither is email
<aymelek> if He ever does read, i would appreciate His opinion on what He has read
<aymelek> i even always use the same pen to write with lol
<dana{TJ}> lol... loves the comfort of pen and paper...
<aymelek> it's funny, cause i am usually very bad with words, i stumble over them verbally, and couldn't write a story or speach in school to pass a grade, but i can write in my journal when i feel the need.
<aymelek> this is the VERY most i have ever participated in a discussion
<aymelek> i am not a terribly social person, i usually hide, though i love to "get out" as long as i don't have to mingle
<dana{TJ}> so understands that aymelek
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informallly. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
* aymelek smiles, i'm so glad, i thought i was alone in that