April 20, 2003 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "First Experiences". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<MstrsRobin{lm}> What was everyone's first experience? as a sub or Dom/me?
<GamesMaster_63> Dom here
<MstrsRobin{lm}> don't everyone talk at once?
<MstrsRobin{lm}> Domme here:D
<earl{MS}> first, may this one ask how far back You wish to go??
<shareena__> my first experience taught me a little about myself but was not a good experiencde
<MstrsRobin{lm}> lol as far back as you wish to share earl
<jewel`{F}> which first experience
<MstrsRobin{lm}> whynot5 shareena__
<MstrsRobin{lm}> which ever you wish to share jewel`{F}
<earl{MS}> can remember kids games over 45 years ago, hows that?
<MstrsRobin{lm}> lol earl{MS}
<shareena__> i think mainly because I didnt know much about the lifestyle and didnt know what I wanted.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> could be shareena__
<MstrsRobin{lm}> it does help if one knows what they want
<shareena__> I was not as selective as I could have been and as a result ended up with a sadist. I found out very quickly I was not a masochist
<MstrsRobin{lm}> that would do it, i am not sadist or masochist, i do know that much
<GamesMaster_63> My wife(now sub) began almost 20 yrs ago as play.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> long time ago
<`abi> do you think anyone really has a clear idea of what they want in the beginning?
<GamesMaster_63> Yeah, but it was only about 4 yrs ago that we decided that we needed it as a lifestyle so that we could stay together and be happy.
<Sweet1`> yes
<MstrsRobin{lm}> i don't think so `abi
<Sweet1`> there are many who know who they are at an early age, understand themselves
<MstrsRobin{lm}> they are the lucky ones
<earl{MS}> abi, as a kid over 45 years ago got into a game where we tied each other up, have been a bondage adict ever since
<`abi> I agree that they may know themselves Sweet1` ... but I'm not sure that I've met very many people who have a very complete picture of what they ultimately want from BDSM
<MstrsRobin{lm}> fun way to learn earl
<Sweet1`> many do...but many get confused when they find the online scene
<`abi> or the r/l scene Sweet1` .. it often isn't what people expect
<MstrsRobin{lm}> yes, online can confuse those who are new and do not know how to tell the def
<GamesMaster_63> In many ways I consider myself very lucky. I found my lifepartner before I realized what lifestyle I needed, and she needs it also.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> very lucky indeed GamesMaster_63
<`abi> I think that it takes most people a little time in the 'candy store' before they refine their ideas about what they want this to look like in their lives
<Sweet1`> they get an altered sense of what it's about...when they go back to listening to themselves and their needs, they can find it
<MstrsRobin{lm}> they need to learn to listen to their innerselves
<MstrsRobin{lm}> which can be a hard lesson to learn
<earl{MS}> my desires have developed and changed over more than four decades and are still developing, it is a great experience which keeps evolving, changing
<GamesMaster_63> A very hard lesson, especially when you were raised that these type of things were forbidden.
* `abi nods to earl .... I have often likened it to going on a grand adventure... without a map
<MstrsRobin{lm}> yes, GamesMaster_63, it is hard to overcome something when it has been forbidden for so long
<`abi> I'm sure that in the beginning I could not possibly have known what I wanted, because I didn't even know what was possible
<GamesMaster_63> Very good point 'abi
* `abi tries to move the cat's tail from in front of the screen ... a whole house, he has to sleep on the monitor
<MstrsRobin{lm}> lol
<Sweet1`> did you know how you wanted to feel abi?
<earl{MS}> still do not believe that this one knows all that is possible and still wants to learn and experience new things
<GamesMaster_63> And that is the grand part of the adventure.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> life is always evolving, new products are always being invented, so many different things to experience
<`abi> a good question Sweet1` ... I don't think I had the language to describe it, but I think I had a sense of some of what I wanted to feel ... but no real perception of what the horizon looked like
<`abi> so, to have been able to say ... I want/need a relationship that looks like x would not have been possible
<MstrsRobin{lm}> do you have an ideal of what it looks like now abi? or is it changing too?
<`abi> it's like seeing a tree that you really want to climb and not being aware that it's part of a whole forest
<Sweet1`> perhaps in a round about way that is my point...if you know how you want to feel, it is not so important to say a label or a box is going to do it for you
<MstrsRobin{lm}> in other words, you want to feel this way, but there are many things which will take you there
<`abi> I would agree Sweet1` ... but I also think that it is a process and it's difficult to know at the start where that process will lead
<GamesMaster_63> Part of this lifestyle is getting out of the box that we have spent our prior lives in (imo)
<Sweet1`> you learn as you go, try this and that, and discover the relationship that works...but you still knew from the beginning where you wanted to go inside
<`abi> I think MstrsRobin{lm} that it has become the old story of the more I know, the less I realize that I know
<MstrsRobin{lm}> :D
<MstrsRobin{lm}> if we realize how little we really know, we are a long way along the road to the realization that we are mere humans
<`abi> I keep getting glimpses of horizons that I didn't know existed
<earl{MS}> can anyone see common threads in their journey that has stayed with them througout, like this one has three, 1) bondage, 2)feeling under the control of another, 3)always sub
<MstrsRobin{lm}> do you know the way to those horizons?
<Sweet1`> does it change how you want to feel tho abi?
<`abi> yes, Sweet1` .. it does
<Sweet1`> why?
<Sweet1`> and how?
<`abi> because as I glimpse those horizons, I realize that it is possible to feel differently
<`abi> and it changes what I want
<`abi> and not completely MstrsRobin{lm} ... it's that without a map thing
<MstrsRobin{lm}> lol
<GamesMaster_63> I just wish I could get past my own fears.
<`abi> what are you afraid of GamesMaster_63?
<MstrsRobin{lm}> it can be a fun trip when mapless though
<MstrsRobin{lm}> all the twists and turns and bumps in the road
<`abi> it's the unmarked landmines that cause the problems ;)
<GamesMaster_63> I fear the dependancy, and whether I have the ability to keep control of my self at times.
<`abi> you fear her dependancy or your own?
<GamesMaster_63> Both
<MstrsRobin{lm}> if you recognize these fears, then you know when you are about to lose control, so you can call a time out to just be human for a bit
<GamesMaster_63> That is what I do, and I also realize that the fears I have may not actually have a basis in reality, but in my view, that is one of the definitions of fear.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> as long as you recognize the fear, then it has a basis in reality
<MstrsRobin{lm}> dependency is about as real as you can get
<GamesMaster_63> My view again, as long as you let the fear rule you it is real.
<earl{MS}> did not know that a fear when recognized had to have a basis in reality
<MstrsRobin{lm}> it usually has something to do with who you are or what is happening in your life at the moment, in my view
<`abi> but it doesn't have to be rational fear earl
<MstrsRobin{lm}> true abi
<`abi> was anyone terrified of their first BDSM experience?
<earl{MS}> abi, better was of saying it, thank you
<MstrsRobin{lm}> look at those in withdrawal, they have many fears
<GamesMaster_63> Mine tend to be very irrational, because they are things I often cannot physically confront.
<GamesMaster_63> No, 'abi, was very excited, but not terrified.
<earl{MS}> abi, before or after?
* Sweet1` would hope people are not terrified doing something that they are to get pleasure from
<`abi> either earl
<`abi> well, I don't know Sweet1` ... there is that rollercoaster type of fear, that I still feel quite often
<Sweet1`> i don't believe it's fear abi....a nervous anticipation yes, fear no
<earl{MS}> abi, was close before meeting Mistress for the first time, but that all changed after the first few hours
<MstrsRobin{lm}> Sweet1`, when they don't realize it could bring them pleasure, the have a right to be scared or terrified of it
<GamesMaster_63> 'abi, I always thought rollercoasters were fun.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> they are GamesMaster_63
<GamesMaster_63> Many people fear the unknown, it is almost universal.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> true
* `abi nods to GamesMaster_63 ... that's the fear GamesMaster_63 ... know it's going to be fun, still scary as hell
<Sweet1`> if you are looking forward to it, but nervous, that is not fear
<GamesMaster_63> It is apprehension
<Sweet1`> it's a nervous anticipation
<MstrsRobin{lm}> nereves and fear are different, but nerves can add to the fear
<GamesMaster_63> Yes
<`abi> I have exactly the same physical reaction as I do to fear
<GamesMaster_63> That is also very normal.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> but is the end result not different?
<Sweet1`> actually, not really...tho you might think you do...there are many of the same things
<Sweet1`> when you look forward to something, you body does react differently than if you truly fear it
<GamesMaster_63> Your pulse and respiration increase, your pupils dilate, your skin temperature initially drops, and your muscles tense.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> like an adrenalin rush
<Sweet1`> because it still involves the nervous system, you might think you are reacting the same
<GamesMaster_63> The physiological reactions are almost identical. Part of it is an adrenalin rush.
<GamesMaster_63> It is why daredevils keep doing what they do.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> adrenaline can be fun
<MstrsRobin{lm}> just got to be careful
<GamesMaster_63> Very
<MstrsRobin{lm}> adrenaline can be a good thing, but it can also get u into big time trouble
<GamesMaster_63> When the body reacts to adrenlin, that is the time control must be the greatest, it is also the time when control can be the hardest.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> double edged sward
<GamesMaster_63> Yep, but that keen edge is the funnest.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> yes, it is, just watch out or it will cut you deep
<GamesMaster_63> And that is the fear I was talking about.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> fear of not beint the best you that you can be, can be very crippling
<GamesMaster_63> Got kicked (growl)
<Sweet1`> if you cut too deep, get out the needle play and fix it <g>
<MstrsRobin{lm}> GamesMaster_63, i was saying that fear of not being the best you that you can be, can be very crippling indeed
<GamesMaster_63> Should be able to sew up sub, have done it for myself many a time.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> :) Sweet1`
<GamesMaster_63> I don't let the fear control me, but I am aware of it being there.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> so that you can control it?
<GamesMaster_63> So that I can let it serve it's purpose and keep me on my toes and constantly aware of what is happening around and with me.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> so in a way, you control each other
<MstrsRobin{lm}> to a c ertain degree
<GamesMaster_63> I am one of those adrenalin junkies we were discussing earlier.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> adrenalin has its place
<GamesMaster_63> I don't look at it that way, but I can see that view.
<`abi> so, is everyone lost in reminiscenes of their first experiences?
<MstrsRobin{lm}> don't everyone talk at once
<MstrsRobin{lm}> lol
<GamesMaster_63> Just trying to give others a chance now.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> no `abi, my experience ass blend in together as one big experience, so there is really no beginning
* `abi smiles...every experience is a first time?
<MstrsRobin{lm}> exactly abi
<MstrsRobin{lm}> still new so still lots to experience
<GamesMaster_63> I hope that it stays that way.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> so do i
<MstrsRobin{lm}> as long as we are having fun, i think it will
<MstrsRobin{lm}> and we are def having fun
<GamesMaster_63> Kewl, and the only way to live
<MstrsRobin{lm}> very true
<MstrsRobin{lm}> every new feeling is a new experience
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<MstrsRobin{lm}> every new toy is a new experience
<MstrsRobin{lm}> a new partner is a new experience
<MstrsRobin{lm}> an old partner come back is a new experience
<GamesMaster_63> Still working on that one, one work schedule or the other, and kids, keeps seeming to interfere.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> so many new things to experience and lots of time to do it
<MstrsRobin{lm}> know the feeling GamesMaster_63
<MstrsRobin{lm}> although kids are great for edge control
<GamesMaster_63> Very true.
<MstrsRobin{lm}> lol
<MstrsRobin{lm}> learned that first hand
<GamesMaster_63> Over and over again
<MstrsRobin{lm}> lol, yes
<MstrsRobin{lm}> and they will be till they move out
<MstrsRobin{lm}> mine are 7, so that is a long way away
<GamesMaster_63> Mine is 17 now, just a few more years
<MstrsRobin{lm}> lucky u
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<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.