April 10, 2005 EhBC Online Discussion

<ModBot> This message is generated by Moderator Bot, ModBot for short. I've set an automatic message that reads as follows...
<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Consent: When, Where, What, and How?". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<motoki> that long?
<DarkAngel^{t}> well all ,, time for me to go light the backyard fire ,,,, the slave is waiting
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> Thanks for the set up DA but I will let that one go
<DarkAngel^{t}> have a good discussion tonight ,,
<DarkAngel^{t}> be well
<vixie{R}> ciao DA
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> cya my friend
<Titan> be well
<paperclip> :)
* vixie{R} pokes becky
<fierydezires> greetings jewel`{F}
<fierydezires> greetings Justice Sir
<paperclip> :)
* jewel`{F} consents to hugs from janizz
<fierydezires> greetings lucy
<paperclip> lol
<paperclip> hmmmm, consent eh?
<lucy> evening E/everyone
<Titan> be well
<janizz> hiya
<janizz> hey jewel`{F} hugs
<jewel`{F}> well we aren'nt supposed to do the whole hi and bye thing after the discussion has started
* lucy apologizes, wasn't cognizant of the time
<jewel`{F}> so i will just consent to hugs etc
<paperclip> don't apologize lucy, it's the only debate going on LOL
<lucy> only? LOL
<paperclip> LOL yeah
* paperclip waves at janizz
<janizz> hey paperclip
<paperclip> :)
<paperclip> well, someone have a comment on consent?
<jewel`{F}> for myself, i consented when i accepted Fyre's collar, but what are some of the times and reasons others may consent?
<jewel`{F}> and what would one consent to?
<paperclip> hmmm
<paperclip> well i think if you have someone's collar, you've consented to everything, yes/no?
<lucy> one can consent to casual play...at a party, let's say...based on the scene that's negotiated
* lucy thinks everything is an awful lot
<jewel`{F}> for me it is that paperclip
<paperclip> i'm with you jewel`{F}
<paperclip> lucy, why do you feel that way?
<janizz> i dont think so paperclip
<janizz> a collar doesnt mean you are a doormat
<paperclip> same question janizz LOL
<lucy> i'm curious if any have come across the 'ask three times' approach to gaining consent
<paperclip> i didn't say anything about being a doormat
* jewel`{F} oogles
<lucy> because "everything" seems like...well, everything LOL....and i think most people consent to *everything they've agreed to* based on prior negotiations...which is different
<paperclip> never heard of it lucy
<krista-F> me either
<lucy> neither had i, paperclip...but the Dom who told me about this seemed to think asking 3 times meant that if the sub said No the first time it gavem him two more opportunities to try and convince her, which seemed rather manipulative and dubious to me
<krista-F> it would not be to my liking to be honest
<paperclip> oh boy, a sub saying no to her Dom or Master is an entirely different topic to me LOL
<lucy> no, paperclip, this was during negotiations...not after a collar has been accepted
<jewel`{F}> i have learned well that the line "never say never" is very true
<paperclip> ah
<janizz> lucy so you think cause you have a collar you cant say no?
<paperclip> i do janizz
<lucy> huh? holy assuming tonight, Batman
<janizz> interesing....
<paperclip> lol
<paperclip> i have a right to say no. but the moment i do i believe i've ended that relationship.
<lucy> i think a collar means what the two or more people involved decide it means...if that means the sub consents to not having the right to say no, that's up to them
<lucy> but this discussion isn't about collars, is it?
<paperclip> it can be...the topic is very vague
<jewel`{F}> i have said no, or that i haven't felt ready for something, but we have also built enough trust in each other that He respects my feelings and opinions, will listen to them, the final decision is still His
<jewel`{F}> i don't feel i am a door mat at all
<janizz> well said jewel`{F}
<jewel`{F}> thank you janizz
* lucy prefers to think of herself as a pretty dynamic doormat
<janizz> have fun y'll
<kisa{NW}> I don't think I need to say no, if I have the protection of being able to say yellow and red when something is too much
<jewel`{F}> i didn't accept the collar lightly, i knew Him well enough to know that He wasn't ever going to do anything to cause me harm of any kind, so in that sense, i have consented to everything He wants
<lucy> does anyone feel there are circumstances under which a sub cannot give valid consent?
<jewel`{F}> when she is already in subspace
<jewel`{F}> under the influence of alchol or drugs
<Achilles{a}> Any situation which impairs their judgement such as drug use, alcohol and such would certainly remove their ability to provide consent.
<lucy> what about mental health issues?
<Achilles{a}> Physical impairment from disease or severe emotional trauma.
<lucy> those would be more prevasive
<lucy> even pervasive
<Achilles{a}> I'm not sure I understand what pervasive has to do with mental health issues.
<lucy> i meant that being under the influence of alcohol, or subspace for that matter, is a temporary state
<lucy> mental health issues are not quite so temporary
<cate> i am wondering is, if there is mental health issues, should that person really be playing?
<arhiannah> you'd cut out half the players....heh
<paperclip> lol
<Achilles{a}> That's certainly a posibility. I can't deny there are those in the community I consider unfit to provide consent without later going wackt and recanting their consent or denying they ever provided it. Those might be examples.
* lucy blinks
<lucy> yes, Achilles, Sir...that's what I was trying to get at
<Achilles{a}> I think that also touches on those whom we simply do not trust.. for whatever reason, to stand by the consent they had offered. Mental issues might be one reason.
<jewel`{F}> i have known of some casual play scenes that for what ever reason didn't turn out the way the sub/bottom had hoped and they had cried foul afterwards
<lucy> despite all of the concern for a submissive's safety i think Toppy-types take on a fair amount of risk as well
<jewel`{F}> i agree lucy
<Achilles{a}> Yes, I experienced that quite a number of years ago. <shrugs>
<lucy> yes, or a history or giving/taking back consent
<arhiannah> i think those bottoms who cry foul should have been more cautious...it's about time people start taking responsibility for their own safety, in my ever so humble opinion
<lucy> i agree
<arhiannah> so you fall of the horse..dust yer ass off & get back on....and hold on more tightly next\ time ;)
<lucy> or try a gentler horse ;)
<arhiannah> heh..and watch out for the nags lol
<lucy> LOL
<lucy> in my opinion, this is one of the most valuable aspects of a 'community'....we can observe others and get a sense for how they interact and decide if they are someone we can/will trust
<arhiannah> it's no different than real life......but still a higher level of trust is required i think, because we're often opening ourselves up to more than just a whuppin'....these guys...and yes, the gals too *grin*...get into our heads..find out what makes our clocks tick...
* krista-F has a cookoo clock
* arhiannah chuckles
<cate> real life?
<cate> arhiannah i only do real life
<cate> this is and never was a game for me
<arhiannah> in view of trusting people....i hold people in all aspects of my life to the same standard, be it kinky or vanilla...
<arhiannah> i didn't say it was a game to me...but i've got a shortage of time & energy that i can focus into "playing"...i'm single, with a young child...
<fierydezires> hugssssssssssss catsbrat{CM}
<cate> as do most of us arhiannah,, married, single , extended families and what not,, life in general , most of us have minimal time for anything
<arhiannah> well glory hallelujah....it's nice to know i'm no different than anyone else....*my* kink is mine...it's no better or worse than anyone else's...it's a part of who i am, but it's not all of me...
<cate> its not part of your *real life*
* arhiannah shrugs....if you believe your concept of how you live is better than mine...good for you cate....but i happen to have better things to do with the precious little time i have
<arhiannah> i believe the topic was consent, not how much better someone is because their kink is better
<cate> i never said that arhiannah,, you were the one that refered to it as a game and not part of your real life is all
<arhiannah> actually....i didn't say it was a game
<arhiannah> that's twice now you've accused me falsely...kindly back up your statements or piss off
<cate> ohhkay lol
<arhiannah> i have never used the word game
<arhiannah> what i believe and what others believe probably varies widely....but i don't think MY way of living is any better than anyone else's
<arhiannah> this works for me
<arhiannah> would i prefer to be in a long term relationship where what i have to share & give as a submissive could be taken as it's offered....HELL YA
<arhiannah> so anyhow......anyone wanna take a swing at consent?
<paperclip> lol
<shadoe> but what if that submission isn't taken as it was offered.. what if the dom de jeur .. who you might really want to stay with or be with..has an entirely different set of expectations that make you slightly uncomfortable.. not with 'danger' radar.. but just out of your safe zone stuff
<arhiannah> if it's not taken as it's offered & abuses that...i hope he has health insurance...
<shadoe> and hell.. beyond the "keep yourself alive and safe stuff".. since when is it okay for submissives to dictate consent?
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
<paperclip> i'm a believer that we hook up with ppl who have certain interests in common. i know i'm not into scat for example...and i really doubt i'd ever end up with someone who is.
<arhiannah> precisely
<shadoe> but you might paperclip
<shadoe> and you might love that person with every ounce of yo
<shadoe> you
<shadoe> and then you have a dilemma
<shadoe> that you need to figure out
<paperclip> i doubt it. i have certain things i want in a person and if they go against those things then i'm never interested.
<shadoe> are you going to dump that person because of one slight difference?
<shadoe> well .. if you go into a relationship with the "have nots and do not's .. firmly in place"
<paperclip> i think that's something i'd know up front. how many conversations have i had with potentials that i've learned their interests before anything else...let me tell you, many.
<shadoe> i'm saying that relationship has a rat's ass hope in hell of lasting
<arhiannah> it would take a pretty big difference to cause me to turn someone away...
<shadoe> relationships are all about comprimise
<paperclip> i should clarify, a collared relationship for me brings about an entirely new set of rules for me.
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the www.ehbc.ca website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informally. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<paperclip> if i'd known or thought B was into scat (HE ISN'T BY THE WAY lol) i'd most likely have stopped seeing him to gain that interest in a relationship. why would i date someone who'd potentially ask me to do something i do not want to do?