April 8 2001 EhBC Online Discussion

<NorthLad> Well it's 9pm and we should begin, first let me say I just woke up and have the flu..please be gentle on me :)
* silken_lips pokes NorthLad
<silken_lips> so dont say hi :p
<BernieAway> I've set an automatic channel message that reads as follows
<BernieAway> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using twisted.ma.us.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion topic is "Being a Switch". The moderator tonight is NorthLad. Enjoy the discussion!
<NorthLad> hi pokie
<BernieAway> See you all soon....
<NorthLad> see ya Bernie
<arhiannah> take your time Bernie ;)
<NorthLad> Okay so I guess we should make sure, does everyone know what a switch is?
<silken_lips> it turns on a light ?
* silken_lips smiles
* dale^^ nods
* arhiannah nods
* dalian nods
* silken_lips becomes serious and nods
<Achilles{tr}> I'd be interested to hear your definition for purposes of the discussion NL.
<NorthLad> silken_lips, thats so bad it's sorta funny
<NorthLad> Well Achilles{tr}, I call myself a Switch because I feel equally comfortable in a Dominate and submissive role
<Achilles{tr}> So a switch is defined as someobody who feels equally comfortable in either role?
<NorthLad> I have switched with the same person but I find now that it's too hard for me. I can only be one or the other with a specific person
<NorthLad> Well that is my defination, I know others who have their own
<NorthLad> Who's to say who is right, them/me/someone else
<NorthLad> Some people would say I'm a Dom who sometimes bottoms. Or perhaps a sub who can Top
<yummier> I don't know who is right, but I don't get being a switch. I think I would spend too much time imagining myself in the other persons shoes
<tYe{S-R}> I believe there are 3 types of switches... Doms that bottom, subs that top and one that is both Dom and sub
<NorthLad> Well yummier, speaking as someone who started as almost always a sub, yes I do sometimes imagine what my sub is now thinking
<NorthLad> For me that is a benifit, helps me understand what they are feeling and makes it easier for me
<NorthLad> I agree tYe{S-R}, I see there being 3 types as well
<yummier> I think I would be wanting to heckle/critize/help whatever
<Context> \Context_
<yummier> not likely a good thing, but then again i don't identify as a switch
<yummier> regardless of the definition used
<NorthLad> So I don't feel so lonely here, any other switches amongst us at the moment?
<tYe{S-R}> I am
<Guest75397> Over here!
<dale^^> i find the persona changes, i do not confuse the Dominant with the submissive
<dale^^> even if i have seen the person in both roles, it is clear
<NorthLad> tYe{S-R}, Guest75397..what if any type do you think of yourself as?
<Guest75397> Type? Dunno. But I switch with my primary partner and with others as well, as the mood takes me/us, sometimes mid-scene.
<arhiannah> i'd like to think i'm a sub, struggling to let go of some dom "tendancies"...
<arhiannah> domme too...*grin*
<Larben> hello form Hamilton
<Larben> from
<NorthLad> hmm that leads to..is a so called "bratty sub" a sub who has a little Dom/me in them?
<Guest78142> YES!
<arhiannah> no..i don't agree with that statement
<dale^^> i don't agree either
<Guest78142> sorry...it comes from a bratty sub...
* dale^^ <<< is never bratty :-))))
<tYe{S-R}> I believe I am of the 3rd. I don't switch within my primary relationship, only outside.
<NorthLad> we have a yes and no, please now fight it out so I may declare a winner
<NorthLad> ..or maybe not :)
<Guest78142> hmmmm we haven't met yet
<silken_lips> for me, i tried to be Domme once, and know in my heart i can not be comfortable in that role
<silken_lips> so i am sticking to strictly slave lol
<arhiannah> to me, brattiness shows lack of discipline & control..please don't misunderstand me...i can be as much a brat as the next person..but i recognize that lack of control in myself
<Guest78142> i am 100% sub, however do enjoy the thought of topping and have had lengthy discussion with my dom.
<dale^^> but there is a difference a sub can Top, does not have to Domme, Domme enters more into the D/s aspects not the play area
<arhiannah> i generally use it as a screen...a wall if you will
<Larben> I am new to the scene but I like spanking young females and am bi sub with Dom females.
<dale^^> Just a Dominant can bottom, for the sensation, does not mean He is submitting... and would never be confused as submitting
<NorthLad> I think you make a good point dale^^
* arhiannah nods
<dale^^> just as even ooopps
<NorthLad> there is a big difference between a sub who can top and a sub who Dom/me's
<dale^^> nods
<Larben> ?
<tYe{S-R}> good point dale. Topping is not enough.
<dale^^> Larben this is a weekly discussion that will end at 10:00pm :-)
<silken_lips> he has been told, and warned
<Larben> have a nice day. It was suggested i come in here. who owns this channel
<NorthLad> topping happens more in a scene only. If it carries over to other aspects of the D/s relationship then they are Dom
<dale^^> just as bottoming is not enough for a submissive, the D/s has to be there for the full feelings of submission
<NorthLad> yes, no? am I high on cough syrup?
<dale^^> disagree NorthLad -silken_lips:@#bdsm-kw- [ops|#bdsm-kw] hmm, guess he doesnt like warnings lol, i did tell him when he entered this was a discussion topic
<NorthLad> please share your thoughts dale^^
<dale^^> if a switch can be submissive to her Master she is living D/s if She is Domme to someone else, does not make her less of a submissive to her Master
<NorthLad> I agree dale^^
* dale^^ sorry for the she (sub) He (Master) just my habit :-) can be either way (he - sub She-Mistress)
<NorthLad> I am a sub to Lady Persephone for instance. Yet when I am with a sub and in the Dom role I am not any less subbish to my Lady
<dale^^> hence the term Switch,mmmmm maybe W/we should vote on a better term
<NorthLad> okay, I'll call myself a horndog
<NorthLad> Mmm corndogs
<NorthLad> ..anyway :)
<NorthLad> Is there a better term than switch?
<NorthLad> why the heck do we need labels anyway?
<silken_lips> so we know who to kiss up to, and who we can huggle :p
<NorthLad> you huggle everyone hun :)
* nymazoiay chuckles at silken_lips
<silken_lips> hmm, not quite
<NorthLad> well all the good ones
* silken_lips wonders what makes a submissive wish to switch?
<silken_lips> or a Dom for that matter
<NorthLad> okay so here thinks that I can't be a Dom cause I sub to someone? Be honest, I'll only cry for a little bit
<tYe{S-R}> generally switches are misunderstood and thought to be confused. I didn't decide to be a switch, it just is.
* nymazoiay waves her hand infront of silken_lips
<nymazoiay> there are a few reasons
* nymazoiay smirks
<silken_lips> like??
* nymazoiay sighs
<nymazoiay> bad experiences I expect
<silken_lips> am serious here, what is it that makes one feel the need to change to the other side of the coin
<nymazoiay> the thought plays in yuor head that perhaps you wont get hurt as a Dom
* nymazoiay shuts up
<tYe{S-R}> I just knew at the begining that something was missing. I cannot leave one side for the other, it has never worked.
<nymazoiay> I was mearly saying that that could be one reason someone would try
<arhiannah> one can be hurt...Dom or sub...a "label" doesn't make someone who they are
<arhiannah> anyone that is
<NorthLad> I started out as a sub so here is why I decided to become a switch...
<NorthLad> cause it felt natural
<NorthLad> I think I was always a switch, just didn't experience the Dom side
<Guest75397> for me, the exchange of power is a fluid event. I draw the analogy with a see-saw. one goes up, the other down, then the balance shifts, and the other goes down, sending the first back up. It's an easy transition.
<NorthLad> I found it easy to switch with a person, even mid scene at first. Now I can't. I am either sub or Dom to someone.
<silken_lips> am curious then
<NorthLad> do ask
<silken_lips> how can one give full submission to one person, and then turn around and be totally opposite to another person
<Opaline> each relationship has its own special flavour
<NorthLad> For me I can because each person I am with brings their own personality to the table
<silken_lips> i guess i am thinking that when one takes a collar one is promising to be totally that persons
<NorthLad> if that is what the relationship and collaring entails
<nymazoiay> what if that person requires you to top them?
<NorthLad> then you darn well better do it :)
<NorthLad> My Lady is also a switch so perhaps it's easier for her to understand
<NorthLad> she loves to hear of me being a Dom to someone
* `lucius is also in a switch relationship
<NorthLad> Do you just switch with your partner `lucius?
<`lucius> Yes.
<`lucius> Well...that's not entirely true
<`lucius> I've topped a number of others in the past.
<`lucius> I find that I can 'pony' for almost anyone. But 'sub' for very few.
* nymazoiay chuckles a little belatedly at NorthLad
<NorthLad> So for the non switches which appear to be many..have you ever wanted to switch or have you always known you were one or the other?
<`lucius> I used to top as a matter of taking 'turns' during play. Not actualy getting any real "dom" pleasure out of it for myself.
<`lucius> But now...things are a little different.
<BernieRoehl> I've never been inclined to switch, but I do try to imagine what the submissive must be experiencing
<NorthLad> that is why I am so glad I started as a sub Bernie, much easier to imagine when you've experienced it :)
* BernieRoehl nods
<`lucius> Some of my earliest (and most experienced) aquaintences, swore I was a natural top...even tho' I've always felt anything but.
<`lucius> I have learned from my own topping expereince, that I'm only interested in experienced bottoms.
<kneels> has been told she is/should be a Domme many times....i have no idea why
<`lucius> ..and that I'm also a little on the brutal side.
<`lucius> But I've always attributed that to the fact that I fantasize about hard core (and slightly brutal) tops.
<NorthLad> okay someone help the sick fella over here..any questions on being a switch?
<BernieRoehl> This may have been asked already, but...
<`lucius> I find myself doing the things to the bottom that I would want done to me.
<BernieRoehl> Do those who switch find there are specific things (music, perhaps) that help you make the transition from one headspace to the other?
<NorthLad> yes I've done that `lucius
<`lucius> ...and then maybe pushing the boundries a little...just to make it interesting.
<NorthLad> good question Bernie and not one asked
<NorthLad> I found it easier to switch not by any outside force
<`lucius> I've only ever been able to "switch" in one night..after my sub needs have been satisfied.
<NorthLad> but by body langauge, unspoken words
<tYe{S-R}> Bernie.. no, not really. I put myself in the mind set that I want to be in most times. However, I have been known to get slightly stuck in one from time to time.
<NorthLad> That made no sense
<`lucius> Normaly, it starts out one way or the other..and runs the full course on that track.
<Guest75397> <laugh> "Top me, boy. Do it. Now." That's how I sometimes do it!
* Masterguny says Evening
<`lucius> Mark and I have a very interesting relationship.
<NorthLad> I also would switch when pre talked about things would occur..being tied up and told I couldnt escape was one
<NorthLad> that was a cue that the tables would soon turn for us
<NorthLad> it gave me a chance to get into the right head space as well as for her to
<NorthLad> um, too :)
* nymazoiay chuckles
<`lucius> ...if he wasn't so god damn big, most would assume he's the sub.
<`lucius> (he's just too nice a guy)
<nymazoiay> isnt that in itself.. when the sub is ordered.. simply being a submissive
<nymazoiay> in Dom role *chuckles*
<NorthLad> hmmm u just described me `lucius :)
* `lucius feels subbie around big guys
<`lucius> ...bigger than myself that is.
* nymazoiay feels big guys as subby
* nymazoiay laughs
<NorthLad> well nymazoiay, it wasn't an order since we came up with it together
<NorthLad> actually, I came up with ya..yeah that's it
<`lucius> I remember the first time I met bottom's friend.
<`lucius> (damn...can't remember his nick now)
<NorthLad> I just liked the look on her face when I would rip the rope apart to get loose :)
<nymazoiay> true true
<`lucius> you aren't supposed to do that!
<Masterguny> RD
* `lucius nods
<`lucius> thanks...I knew it was two letters..
<`lucius> :)
<NorthLad> aren't supposed to do..?
<`lucius> just kidding NorthLad...it's not like there are any real rules here.
<`lucius> But as a true escape artist, I often don't really try too hard when I'm bound up.
<NorthLad> there is one rule, I am always a goofball, learn it, live it, love it
<arhiannah> lol
<Masterguny> I would love to be a switch....best of both worlds
<NorthLad> I never try to escape unless it's time to switch
<tYe{S-R}> yes it is Masterguny :))
<`lucius> ..then again, Mark is a perfectionist when it comes to mummification..and I've really, really tried on a few occassions with no luck at all.
<NorthLad> Since I don't switch mid-scene anymore...I break much less rope
<Masterguny> I tried ONCE never again
<NorthLad> why is that Masterguny?
* `lucius has subbed for partners of both sexes.
<`lucius> and topped both I guess too.
<Masterguny> I cannot stand the loss of control...I get to a point then thats it I'll break everything to regain control
<`lucius> although, my experience with the opposite sex was limited to just one person.
<dale^^> *lol*, i remember helping a friend wax her legs, every time i pulled a strip of i apologized, can imagine me with a flogger, ,,, *swing*, oh sorry, *swing*,, sorry, the sub would probably kill me...
<`lucius> I've met people who've been dragged into the scene by a submissive partner.
<`lucius> I've had a guy approach me..almost in tears, asking how he could please his submissive boyfriend without hurting him.
<NorthLad> okay here's a question of opinion...Harder for a sub to Top, or a Dom to bottom?
<`lucius> ...I've even played "stunt" double a few times.
<NorthLad> you have 3 seconds
<kneels> i would think for a Dom to bottom NorthLad
<dale^^> no difference NorthLad, it is the mindset
<tYe{S-R}> lol... no answer possible
<arhiannah> personally, harder to Top after subbing
<Masterguny> I don't think its easy either way
<silken_lips> i would think for a Dom to bottom myself
<silken_lips> a sub would top to please the Dom
<dale^^> well a Dom would bottom to please Himself :-))), sorry bad joke
<`lucius> I think it depends on the people involved noq
<`lucius> NorthLad
<kneels> i would think a Dom would have a hard time giving up the control....where a sub would take on a "role" and play it knowing what they like done to them..it wouldnt be a scary place for them
<`lucius> there are some people I just can't sub for.
<lil_kitten> *that* is something totally unique to each person, some Doms would never be comfy bottoming, some would, same with subs and topping
<`lucius> But I could top them.
* dale^^ notes submissive does not mean being submissive to just everyone and anyone
<`lucius> true dale...But some "Doms" don't recognize that.
<`lucius> Wearing a collar to certain clubs, almost means you're open property.
<kneels> lol...well there are many people who's asses i would love to whip....but that isnt D/s...just people annoying me
<`lucius> I've almost come to blows with Doms in the past.
<fr0ggy> lol
<fr0ggy> i think irc is the best example of it
<DeuxLeMax> can you neame one kneels
<`lucius> Well...a complete stranger demanding a blow job from me? ....ummmm...how about...no.
<kneels> has been accused many times of not being a "real" sub for just that reason lucius...i tend to get nasty when ordered obnoxiously by those i dont know
<arhiannah> all depends on what he looks like...lol
<fr0ggy> where people who dont have a clue as to how to respect that thier ideals might be different from someone else just start hitting on people in ways you cant imagine.
<kneels> i can name several DeuxLeMax
<`lucius> Then they're all pissed because I'm collared, and supposed to be a sub...
<dale^^> then they are not D/s `lucius, a collar on a submissives means the Dominants approach the Master not the submissive
<silken_lips> there is nothing wrong with refusing to go along with a Dom who does not own you
<`lucius> Many times, the health of my partner is forefront in my mind in situations like that.
<lil_kitten> dale... not necessarily
<dale^^> so feel free to pop them one :-)))
<`lucius> I'm still blown away by how many guys will just ignore safe practices.
<NorthLad> okay we are nearing the end of the discussion for this week, any final thoughts or questions?
<lil_kitten> wearing a collar to a fet doesn't mean you suddenly become unable to speak for yourself. At the first fet I was at, some guy kept staring at me until SW came up to me, then he asked SW if I would get out of his way
<kneels> ok i have a question..does anyone think it odd that a sub (read me) can not have a desire at all to switch but still have sadistic tendencies?
<lil_kitten> My first thought was "what an *I D I O T*"
* lil_kitten has those too, kneels
<dale^^> speaking for yourself is one thing, having a Dominant approach you for play/sex is another.. If they respect the lifestyle they would not approach the submissive for play
<`lucius> it's not that odd kneels
<Masterguny> you mean you just want to be plain mean?
<`lucius> I think many of us have sadistic tendancies..or at least the odd thought now and again.
<Masterguny> :-)
<lil_kitten> for play, you're right, but in general, anything wants something for me, I'm perfectly aware of what SW expects my answer to be and that's what I give
<yummier> what a Dom can't approach a sub dale^^ or just not one who is collared?
<dale^^> one who is collared
<kneels> no..and it isnt nessesarily sexual..although sometimes it is...ie) i am a nurse..sometimes i enjoy it ..lol..but sometimes it is..ie) kitten i would enjoy choking you again..lol
<`lucius> I never thought that I would ever gain any form of pleasure from causing anyone pain.
<NorthLad> Well it's 10pm so we'll be ending the discussion for this week. Please feel free to keep talking but for now, chat log closed :)