April 3, 2005 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "Why Does a Submissive Obey Their Master/Mistress?". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
<Titan> perhaps chuckle
<complex_package> the submissive obeys their Master/Mistress because he/she has signed there life away in the form of a contract... that's how it all starts. *chuckles*
* lucy thinks maybe her answer is just too simple: because they want to
<Titan> not all sign contracts though
<Jaysker{padma}> i think that maybe Lucy has it
<paperclip> becuz i enjoy doing so. becuz to see a smile on his lips brings a smile to my heart. how's that for corny? LOL
* lucy suddenly feels claustrophobic ;)
<complex_package> lol
<Titan> chuckle
<paperclip> :)
<complex_package> obeying can be a simple form of communication, obeying shows compliance, willingness, defines ones character and all that good stuff
<BeSwitched> grreetings
<Titan> good points complex
<`abi{A}> how does it do that complex_package?
<shadoe> hmm.. am i here?
<paperclip> yes lol
<shadoe> ah.. good
<paperclip> we're just warming up
<paperclip> ;)
<complex_package> for communications purposes, to obey ones request to the "t" shows you were listening. following through in obedience, shows compliance and willingness, it also shows the Dominant a bit of ones character, or workload in teachings or otherwise
<lucy> and for all that one needs the desire, which brings me back to my original premise...a submissive obeys because they want to
<paperclip> do you think ones character is shown thru obeying? or just being yourself? obeying being something entirely different?
* paperclip waits for someone to comment on her question. hehe
* lucy doesn't want to hog all the question
<Jaysker{padma}> obeying is about indicating desire
<paperclip> lol
<complex_package> being yourself shows a character that is signature to yourself, this shows a maybe different character to the Dominant, one He/She may not be useto.
<paperclip> i'd be more prone to agree with that Jaysker{padma}
<lucy> but if i must...LOL...i think character is shown when one is presented with an ethical dilemma, i can obey and still lack moral fibre...JMHO
<paperclip> perhaps obeying is just our way to signify to our Master that we have committed to them and them only...that we want to show our affection/committment to them and obeying what they ask/demand is one of the ways we do so. ...yes/no?
<Jaysker{padma}> i agree paperclip
<paperclip> thanks
<shadoe> but what about this.. when we "signed on" ... we knew the rules.. ergo, we obey?
<paperclip> hmmm
<paperclip> i'm mulling that over shadoe LOL
<Jaysker{padma}> but even then that indicates on on-going commitment to the rules
<shadoe> it's not about whether we choose to obey.. it's about what we signed on to .. and we all signed on because it's what our personality needs
<Jaysker{padma}> but each time is a choice
<shadoe> so ..there's really no choice of "obey or not to obey"
<shadoe> yes.. i made the 'choice' .. and/or decision to pay attention to my personality
<MysticMz> I think you signed on because deep down you were hoping for someone to 'fix' things
<shadoe> that's where it ends
<lucy> sure there is....even when one has 'signed on' they always retain one option - the option of leaving...so if one chooses not to obey they know the consequences
<shadoe> you can't leave your personality lucy
<shadoe> well.. you can LOL
<paperclip> hmmm, i wonder shadoe....if it's something your personality 'needs' then one should be prone to obey anyone, by doing so for that one person you've chosen to show you're willing and want to to that person.
<shadoe> but then you aren't breathing
<lucy> i'm talking about the relationship, shadoe, not my personality...i obey because i want to
<shadoe> actually paperclip.. you are on to something..
<lucy> now, WHY i want to is another matter entirely
<paperclip> i am? LOL
<complex_package> one always has the option to obey or not in here... it isn't afterall to one individual W/we obey.. it's to the group as an entirity. it's a point but not the concentrated one stated.
<shadoe> because it's a need.. if you really examine a submissive's life
<shadoe> no matter how vocal they get.. they are pretty obedient to most people
<BeSwitched> wonderin....is that need limited to submissives?
<paperclip> true enough shadoe ...if one is submissive, then the usual triggers should happen with anyone who knows them....i think that's the time the submissive's choice kicks in as to whether to follow thru with that feeling or not.
<shadoe> lucy.. are you saying you only obey cause you want to? if you decided NOT to obey ever, what would that do to your psychy?
<`abi{A}> not if you consider that obedience is really about adherence to structure BeSwitched
<shadoe> *spelling* sheesh!
<BeSwitched> at its deepest core ....it may be abi
<`abi{A}> I believe that structure is part of what draws many of us, both Dominant and submissive ... and obedience to structure is certainly equally demonstrated by Tops
<lucy> as paperclip said i don't obey willy nilly...sure, there are triggers, but it's not like if someone comes up to me and says "Bacon Double Cheeseburger" I'm going to respond with "yes, Master"
<paperclip> agreed `abi{A}, 100%
<lucy> the triggers are alot more intimate than that
<paperclip> :)
<lucy> does it fuel a basic need? you bet...so i choose to meet that need, i choose to obey
<shadoe> i have a random question to the submissives
<shadoe> what was your first job .. very first.. as a kid
<`abi{A}> making my bed
<paperclip> dishes
<shadoe> was that a job? i mean structured by your parents?
<lucy> being seen and not heard
<paperclip> yeah. and my 3rd grade teacher grrrr
<`abi{A}> lol...apparently it was volunteer work and I sucked at it
<shadoe> okay.. lets try paid
<shadoe> what was your first paid job
<paperclip> lol dishwasher
<`abi{A}> teaching dance
<shadoe> *allowance not included*
<paperclip> dishwasher in a bar LOL
<paperclip> shadoe, yours? and what are you getting at? lol
<lucy> i was a short order cook
<motoki> piano teacher
<shadoe> mine was a cashier
<shadoe> in a grocery store
<BeSwitched> referee for soccer games........ come to think about it...
<shadoe> of all the jobs you did under the age of 20.. that you got paid for.. which was the most satisfying?
<BeSwitched> amazing amount of power that little whistle had...but usually was followed by complaints...lol
<paperclip> lol
<lucy> none of them were satisfying relaly, i had a goal and the jobs were a means to an end
<paperclip> the dishwashing, was an automatic "get into bar underage" card LOL
<shadoe> what was your goal lucy?
<motoki> riding racehorses
<shadoe> and how did that first job make you feel?
<lucy> the goal was to save money for university so i didn't have to do any of those crappy jobs anymore
<shadoe> were you happy to be obedient? did you feel in control?
<paperclip> independant. adult.
<shadoe> were you a rebellious child?
<lucy> me?
<paperclip> me?
<lucy> LOL
<paperclip> absolutely
<paperclip> lol
<Titan> How Ironic crops etc I used on riding horses under age of 20
<shadoe> or happy to try to make your parents happy with your clean bedroom?
<motoki> i enjoyed them because of the look in my parents' eyes when i did a good job
<shadoe> ah.. okay motoki
<shadoe> so would you say you were compelled to be obedient
<lucy> i was a do-my-own-thing-but-within-the-bounds-of-what-would-earn-me-punishment kind of kid
<Titan> Mom said I had a messy bedroom chuckles
<motoki> i was compelled to seek approval
<shadoe> not because you chose to be.. but because the look in your parent's eye.. gave them pleasure and fit perfectly with you
<shadoe> exactly
<shadoe> and did you choose to find that approval
<shadoe> or was it a gut reaction?
<`abi{A}> nope...rebellious here... I think I challenged even my parents to give me a reason to obey..."make it important, or don't expect me to do it"
<motoki> obedience wasn't the vehicle, approval was
<paperclip> agreed
<BeSwitched> think motoki...just hit it on the head
<shadoe> yep.. she did
<motoki> does that mean i'm getting approval? cool
<motoki> <--wins again hehehe
<lucy> LOL
<shadoe> it's something a gazillion submissives fight every day
<shadoe> but in the end.. your personality is what it is
<Titan> and another thing did were you happy when told you did well in your tasks/demands/orders
<lucy> so shadoe, is your premise that submissives obey their masters because they are compelled to seek approval?
<shadoe> some people don't care about approval... but some do
<lucy> err...is that a yes?
<shadoe> it's not always just approval lucy.. everyone has their own need
<shadoe> i think we all seek approval.. but a sub's approval will vary from a dominants
<shadoe> but motoki described a submissive's... hers
<shadoe> quite eloquently
<Johncin> most kids, not yound adults seek approval
<shadoe> i did Johncin.. i still do
<shadoe> and in a crowd.. i defer to a dominant .. time and again
<BeSwitched> the seekin of approval...is cemented for life...in the persona of those so inclined...not just as kids
<shadoe> i might be mouthy..
<shadoe> MysticMZ will attest to that
<shadoe> but in the end.. the subby side will win
* lucy ponders how healthy it is to seek external approval
<Johncin> that is your upbringing shadoe
<`abi{A}> yep, me too ...that's why I like structure ... I like knowing that if I do it right, there is approval. To be assured of that, I have to know what the expectations are ... ergo, structure slut
<lucy> i know we all do it to some degree, but too much isn't really great, imo
<shadoe> bull crap Johncin
* lucy blinks
<shadoe> if that were the case.. none of my siblings would be dominant
<shadoe> people are born being who they are
<shadoe> some of it might be genetic remembrance.. but most of it is not..
<shadoe> i was raised by a mother who was a tad crazy.. and had a rebellious streak.. she made my life hell and tried to push me into being domineering
<`abi{A}> I think it is perfectly healthy lucy...if you seek in the right ways, in the right places
<`abi{A}> I also think it is perfectly natural ... very few people don't give a damn... far fewer than say they don't
<lucy> right abi, but i know people who are constantly seeking external approval....maybe it's unsubmissive of me (though i don't think so) but i take pride in a job well done regardless of approval
<shareena> that's not unsubmissive imo lucy
<`abi{A}> selectively seeking approval does not negate personal pride lucy
<`abi{A}> but you know.... I already know how to impress myself, I'd much rather expend energy selectively impressing someone else
<lucy> i dunno...i
<lucy> i'm pretty hard to impress ;)
<shadoe> so do i lucy
<shadoe> i love when i am happy with a project
<shadoe> but then when someone else comes along.. and comments.. it's even better.. although in truth i think we are ALL like that
<Johncin> seeking approval applies to both dominant and submissive, everyone likes to be appreciated
<shadoe> exactly Johncin
<motoki> it's not either/or - approval, like control, have internal and external loci
<motoki> both apply, both are necessary
<`abi{A}> anyone think obedience is related to self-control?
<ash111> hi everyone
<motoki> yep
<Johncin> of course abi
<shareena> yes
<`abi{A}> that's what I like about you motoki....you're concise ;)
<motoki> :)
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<paperclip> Mr Bamboo is the reason i obey. LOL