April 1 2001 EhBC Online Discussion
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's 9 pm
<arhiannah> ...the hour we've all been waiting for... ;)
<BernieRoehl> I've set a channel messages as follows:
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to our regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to say something, but remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using twisted.ma.us.dal.net as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight is "Newbie Night", and the moderator is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<BernieRoehl> So, it's newbie night -- a chance for people to ask questions and perhaps get some answers
<breathes_through_his_ears> nick/subbmissive_beauty
* BernieRoehl looks around the channel
<BernieRoehl> So, who here is (relatively) new to the scene?
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> relatively?
* dalian raises her hand
* jewell{T} raises her hand nervously
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> howlong is relatively?
<BernieRoehl> Well, people can identify themselves as newbies for as long as they choose
<victoria_angel{Flint}> newbe could also mean public vs private, right Bernie?
<BernieRoehl> Absolutely, victoria_angel{Flint}
<BernieRoehl> It can mean being new at any aspect of the scene
<NorthLad> hmm well I'm at 4 months for coming to munches, 2 years for knowing what I did was consdiered BDSM, 3 years ago I just thought I was a perv :)
<dalian> as for public, I'd definately say that I'm a newbie...I've never been there and don't expect to for some time...lol
* BernieRoehl smiels
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> wow then that could mean all of us except Bernie
* que`sarah laughs
* BernieRoehl laughs
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> then i am a newbie to my relationship
* ^sky_afk is a year new
<BernieRoehl> So... is being involved publicly a kind of "new virginity" for people?
<BernieRoehl> (In other words, you're a newbie to that aspect of being involved in the scene)
<dalian> it would certainly be for me Bernie...I don't like being in the center of a crowd...or even a corner...in a public sense
<que`sarah> It certainly has been for me -- as long as I've been involved in the scene, and fairly "out" about being kinky, I still feel like a "newbie" at events.
<submissive_beauty> new since jan explored on line a year before(if u consider that experience)
<victoria_angel{Flint}> i don't think i'd have a problem at a scene, maybe being a participant
<que`sarah> It's _all_ experience, submissive_beauty. :)
<DarkAngel^{nym}> we all do que`sarah
<BernieRoehl> It's interesting -- a lot of people have said much the same thing
<victoria_angel{Flint}> humm, didn't all show up, wouldn't participate at this time....
* que`sarah has trouble imagining DA as newbie ... perhaps that's the point!
<BernieRoehl> Part of being a newbie is that *everything* is new -- and public play is one of those things
<DarkAngel^{nym}> the perpetual newbie que`sarah ,,,, I want it always to be fresh ,, new,, interesting and exciting
<BernieRoehl> So do most people find that public play is a really big step?
<arhiannah> a HUGE step
<arhiannah> for me
<DarkAngel^{nym}> and in this lifestyle ,, one can easily explore for the rest of their lives ,,,,
<arhiannah> haven't done so yet..:)
<NorthLad> Yep...until you do it and then it's as easy as going to a munch..well for me at least
<jewell{T}> public anything is a very big step for me..going to a munch/brunch was intimidating at first
<que`sarah> Public play wasn't as big a step for me as munches and brunches, I have to admit.
<submissive_beauty> nods have been to the parties still don't have the nerve to play
<arhiannah> perhaps..but there's just something about having your arse bared to the world that makes it a little more difficult to wrap my mind around
<arhiannah> :)
<que`sarah> *grin* Of course, I'm a bit of an exhibitionist, so that's not surprising. :)
<DarkAngel^{nym}> dont rush submissive_beauty ,,,, play when and if YOU are ready
<elegantsarah{DEM}> I agree with que`sarah....it was harder to go to my first munches than to play in public....that was a big reason for me entering the public scene
<Stevius> Bernie, can you define the 'scene'...is it essentially public play?
<dalian> i guess it's because I've always considered play a highly personal thing and shared by a small few...the idea of exposing myself to a crowded room is something that I struggle with
<arhiannah> in this context, yes...for me anyhow..*grins*..i have played privately
<DarkAngel^{nym}> kewl arhiannah ,,,,
<que`sarah> *smile* And I feel much more nervous and exposed having to _talk_ to someone.
<BernieRoehl> People use the word in different ways, Stevius. Generally, it refers to BDSM and the community of people involved in it.
<NorthLad> I think playing is easier than attending a munch because during a scene I focus on who I am with, during a munch I have everyone's eye's on me
<NorthLad> ..that's usually cause I have spinach in my teeth
<arhiannah> heh
<abigaille> that's because you're batting your eyelashes at them NorthLad
* BernieRoehl smiles
<submissive_beauty> and i'm the opposite Northlad i find munches easier then playing
<dalian> me too submissive_beauty
* arhiannah nods
* jewell{T} agrees
<BernieRoehl> I enjoy both :-)
* que`sarah has a question
<NorthLad> I'm shy to talk..stop laughing, I am..yet I'm not shy to play, yep I'm odd all right :)
<BernieRoehl> Go ahead, que`sarah
<que`sarah> There seem to be two camps here: "munches are easier" and "public play is easier"....
<que`sarah> which do you find the "better" venue to get to know other kinky people in?
<NorthLad> munches by far in my opinion
<submissive_beauty> agrees
<elegantsarah{DEM}> I think munches are the better place to get to know people
* dalian nods
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> i love people and i am abit of an exhibitionist so play are great for me
<NorthLad> At a party I am either playing, wanting to play, watching playing, thinking of playing, playing with my food
<que`sarah> But NorthLad, you do that at the brunches, too!
<DarkAngel^{nym}> I agree elegantsarah{DEM} ,,, I certainly dont meet and play at a Party
<NorthLad> at a munch I am forced to talk and be social, darn politness of mine
<submissive_beauty> whipped potatoes anyone?
<elegantsarah{DEM}> I love play parties but in terms of really getting to know people, munches are better and discussion groups even better
<NorthLad> I play at brunches?
<que`sarah> With your food, NorthLad. And with me, when I don't run fast enough, apparently.
<NorthLad> I'll have you know my hands are always on the table
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> we go to both munches and play parties to meet people and then to play
<NorthLad> You don't try to run fast enough
* DarkAngel^{nym} gropes nymazoiay{DA} while no one is watching
* BernieRoehl smiles
* nymazoiay{DA} smiles weakly
* autumn`breeze{JFC} is surprised DA is in the mood
<elegantsarah{DEM}> I have a question for the new people, We have been talking about having an "early table" at munches so that new people would have a place to start. Do you think that would be helpful and would you avail yourself of such a thing?
<BernieRoehl> So coming to a munch is one step, coming to a play party is another (perhaps bigger) step, and playing in public yet another step
<arhiannah> yes
<Stevius> elegantsarah{DEM}, what are discussion groups...are they part of the munch?
* jewell{T} agrees with Bernie
* que`sarah hangs her head -- I've been doing it backwards! :)
* autumn`breeze{JFC} agrees
* BernieRoehl smiles at que`sarah and gives her a squeeze
<elegantsarah{DEM}> DSSG holds a discussion group once a month in TO, and these discussions are good too although you can't see one another
<arhiannah> not necessarily que`sarah...depends on what "works" for you :)
<BernieRoehl> An "early table" is an interesting idea, elegantsarah{DEM}
<dalian> I don't know if I like the early table idea...I think I would feel very centered out for everyone coming in afterwards. Now having the newbie session for parites is a great idea
<BernieRoehl> I always show up a bit early for the munches, in case some newbies arrive early too
* nymazoiay{DA} kneels at DA's feet but doesn't touch him and try to look as frumpy as possible
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> lol at nymazoliay
<que`sarah> And everyone does seem to trickle in, to be sure...
<BernieRoehl> For those who remember their first munches, did you find you hung out with other new people? How would you have felt about a "newbie table"?
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> i stuck to Franklin like glue very nervous!
<nymazoiay{DA}> I actually did very little of anything.. however, simply seeing the different types of people there... made me feel more at ease
<jewell{T}> i was dragged in my Thor..we knew no one and i was terrified
<submissive_beauty> that would have been good i just took my own newbies with me
<dalian> I remember my first...was very nervous...made up my name tag after your greeting Bernie...and headed for the first table in the corner!
<victoria_angel{Flint}> what do you mean by different types of people nym?
<elegantsarah{DEM}> I met new people at my first munch and even started seeing one of them
<nymazoiay{DA}> every type...
<nymazoiay{DA}> hard to explain. I went in with an idea of the "type" of people who would be involved.
<victoria_angel{Flint}> lol, so some of us are clean cut types.....
<elegantsarah{DEM}> I don't mean that one stays there all night, rathjer that one at least meets some people and being with other new people can give one a sense of comfort
<nymazoiay{DA}> Professional types did NOT enter my head even though I am oneLOL
<que`sarah> I think a "newbie table" would have made me feel a little singled-out (kind of like how one used to feel at the kids' table at large family gatherings)
<victoria_angel{Flint}> i agree que'sarah
* que`sarah agrees with elegantsarah{DEM}
* jewell{T} agreed with que`sarah
<victoria_angel{Flint}> a mentor or chaperone would be much better, one of the 'regulars'
* DarkAngel^{nym} would have to sample the "newbie table" ..
<que`sarah> At my first munch, I ended up sitting next to someone else new, and I found that to be a great experience -- someone to share being nervous about being new to.
* autumn`breeze{JFC} thinks Franklin should be a chaperone
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> and i mean the turtle this time
<que`sarah> But then, I _did_ have someone experienced to walk in with.
* elegantsarah{DEM} thinks that's a bad idea ....lol
* que`sarah thinks BernieRoehl should _have_ a chaperone
<submissive_beauty> honestly if Bernie had not met me pretty much at the door i would have turn around and left i was that nervous
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> you would know sarah lol
* Kilted_One has been walking most of his life does that make me experienced sarah?? <eg>
* BernieRoehl laughs
* que`sarah chuckles
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> Bernie is too experienced
* BernieRoehl smiles
<victoria_angel{Flint}> lol, KO, i'm afraid my chaperone might be more than i need
* que`sarah jogs -- gotta make up for my lack of years in keeping up with BernieRoehl and Kilted_One
* que`sarah proposes an "old fogeys" table
<dalian> I have to admit that if Bernie wasn't there to greet people at the door....I would've felt very uneasy
<CuriouserAndcuriouser> So far we've talked about being new to the 'scene.' I'd like to ask about being new to a particular element of the scene. I don't consider myself new to SM, but I've been asked to try my hand at dominance, and am wondering how one 'learns' this type of skill (as opposed to learning to flog, cut etc.).
<elegantsarah{DEM}> I remember at one point that I agreed to meet new people outside a munch to walk in with them.....I suppose my thought was that meeting at a designated area might be somewhat the same
* BernieRoehl chuckles and puts his name on a little "reserved" signed at the old fogeys table
<arhiannah> lol
<BernieRoehl> Glad I could help, dalian
<elbowfetish> There's mentoring, and also book learning.
<Kilted_One> pull a chair there for me too Bernie <winks...or is that me just falllinnng asleep>
<BernieRoehl> Will do, KO!
<BernieRoehl> That's a *really* interesting question, CuriouserAndcuriouser
<katchoo_witty> Is dominance a skill that is learned - or are the tools of dominance the skill ??
<BernieRoehl> I know a lot of people would say that Dominance is not really a skill that can be learned
<katchoo_witty> but can those tools be learned - ie how to use a flogger, cut, bind etc... read a sub...
<BernieRoehl> One can learn to flog, but learning to be Dominant is like learning to have blue eyes
<dalian> lol
<BernieRoehl> However, if you have a flicker of dominance to your personality, it can be built upon
<dalian> never heard it put quite that way before
<arhiannah> i'd have to agree...dominance is something that's inane to one's personality..
<arhiannah> inate
<arhiannah> lol
<arhiannah> not inane
<pet-tunia> just as submission is ...
* BernieRoehl smiles at arhiannah's cute typo
<Stevius> I think the expression of Dominance requires skill
<elegantsarah{DEM}> It seems to me that mentoring may be the best way......there can be areas that can be helped by discussion
* BernieRoehl agrees with Stevius
<BernieRoehl> Yes, mentoring is an excellent idea
<CuriouserAndcuriouser> There is the *quality* of dominance, and there are the *expressions* of dominance, yes?
* Kilted_One reminds Bernie that "blue" contacts are available now to make your eyes blue
* que`sarah agrees wholeheartedly with elegantsarah{DEM}
<CuriouserAndcuriouser> What can a mentor do, and are the best mentors other dominants, or submissives?
<BernieRoehl> If you have the *desire* to explore Dominance, you can go from there -- especially with a mentor
* BernieRoehl smiles at KO "good point"
<arhiannah> lol
<que`sarah> But does that mentor need to be another Dom(me)?
<BernieRoehl> My advice (not knowing the details) would be to partner up with another Domme as a mentor
* Kilted_One wonders if there is a "dom" contact that you can get to turn you into a Dom
<katchoo_witty> does mentoring work for the submissive side too... or is learning submissiveness best taught by a dominant?
<abigaille> yes, and as soon as they invent a flogger with sonar KO ... anyone will be able to have blue eyes
<BernieRoehl> Definitely doesn't have to be -- again, depends on the situation
<que`sarah> Sonar? Ah, for detecting subs, of course :)
* Kilted_One pings abigaille
* abigaille winks at sarah
<^trufriend> some Dominants disagree with the concept of Mentoring because they do not want to have a submissive "trained" or "Mentored" in another Dominant's way...
<elegantsarah{DEM}> I think both Doms and subs can learn from both Doms and subs
<Stevius> I think a sub could be a great mentor for a Dom...it would be topping from the bottom, but a great learning experience
* que`sarah squelches the signal coming back from abigaille, so KO isn't deafened
<pet-tunia> Do you think there a difference between someone who is Dominant only within a set role for a certain amount of time... and those who live it as a lifestyle?
<elbowfetish> As in much of life, it can be nice for a couple to learn together, starting from the same place, with some outside guidance perhaps.
<BernieRoehl> I think it's often useful for Doms (and Dommes) to have other Doms (or Dommes) to learn from, and for submissives to form friendships with other submissives to help understand what it's all about
<BernieRoehl> And yes -- Doms can learn from subs, and vice-versa
<arhiannah> your focus would be pretty narrow if all you knew was one Dom/me's "way"
<victoria_angel{Flint}> i think that friendships crossing between Dom/mes & subs who do not play are important
<katchoo_witty> so pet_tunia - I wonder too - is dominance a "role" or a personality type?
<elegantsarah{DEM}> I think it's both
<que`sarah> Indeed, arhiannah, but depth as well as breadth is also important
<submissive_beauty> i agree both
<arhiannah> it's definitely a personality type, can _also_ be a role
<^trufriend> thanks arhiannah, i didn't think anybody else saw what i said
<submissive_beauty> having said that i tend to lean towards the personality type
<arhiannah> ;)@tru
<elegantsarah{DEM}> No one can be in Dom mode or sub mode 24/7 imo......but one can still be it without being "on" all the time
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> personality type for myself and Franklin
<AlanW> katchoo..Dominance is inbred..it is not a role.it is the expression of the power recogized by the Dominant male or female with the intent of having you the submissive respond fully..
<victoria_angel{Flint}> ditto for us here too autumn
<katchoo_witty> in a scene - Dom is a role isn't it?
<^trufriend> Dominance is inbred, as it were, in me Alan....but my preference is to be submissive
<autumn`breeze{JFC}> sarah picture Franklin in sub mode
<arhiannah> in that context katchoo, it is a role, but it's dependant on the Dom's personality
<Stevius> I do not see dominance as a general personality attribute...it is usually only seen in the context of a dom/sub interaction
<AlanW> then you may be a strong submissive...trufriend:)
<katchoo_witty> perhaps the personality trait is actually "assertiveness"
<elegantsarah{DEM}> I may not be able to picture him in sub mode but I can picture him as not being Dom every second of the day
* Kilted_One thinks that by that definition AlanW...I am most definately "inbred" <smiles>
<^trufriend> whether it be sexual or in business....Dominance and submission are relevent 24/7
<arhiannah> all this inbreeding...lol
<victoria_angel{Flint}> i agree tru
<Stevius> I think there are people who are assertive but who are not Doms
<elbowfetish> Dom, sub, how have people learned to express it when starting to play?
<`autumn^breeze{JFC}> KIDS!!
<submissive_beauty> i also agree trufriend
<katchoo_witty> Exactly my point - does it only become "dominance" in the BDSM context?
<elegantsarah{DEM}> They are relevant but I would say that in most of my business life, I am Dom then.....in my relationship with DEM, I am submissive
<^trufriend> there are bosses and there are employees....there are Masters and there are servants...there are Dom/mes and there are submissives...
<submissive_beauty> lol yep kids
<CuriouserAndcuriouser> Is there a way to sample dominance? I have in mind any number of SM 'tastings,' i.e. someone who has never been spanked, and a 'service' top spaning them or someone trying out their single-tail for the first time on flesh and a 'service' masochist stepping up to the plate. Is there a place for 'trial' dominance?
<BernieRoehl> I think part of making the transition out of "newbie" mode is learning to express what's going on inside, elbowfetish
<^trufriend> at a play party or a fetish event CuriouserAndcuriouser...."samples" can be seen
<BernieRoehl> I think there is, CuriouserAndcuriouser
<Kilted_One> and so pretty she really is that samples....ohh such a nice....everything
<katchoo_witty> and having someone you trust enough to express "what's going on inside" to...
<CuriouserAndcuriouser> can someone give me an example of a 'sample' that might be negotiated?
<BernieRoehl> And yes, as tru points out, play parties are a good (and safe) place to experiment
<arhiannah> hehe...samples eh tru??...barin' your wares again sis?
<^trufriend> as much as possible! lol
<arhiannah> LMAO
* ^trufriend catches arhiannah's ass
<Stevius> tru, you are referring to power and control within society when you say dominance and submission is relevant 24/7
<arhiannah> *squeals*
<^trufriend> partly Stevius
<^trufriend> too many Chiefs and not enough indians for my liking
<katchoo_witty> how often are society's DOM/sub's roles reversed when dumped into the BDSM context?
<katchoo_witty> or is that urban legend too?
<^trufriend> i may feel submissive in the bdsm context katchoo_witty, but i have also flogged a couple butts and enjoyed the rush, for lack of a better word
<Stevius> I wondered that too, katchoo_witty...I always had an image of the high powered exec who gets off on being a sub
<^trufriend> in my day to day life, i feel i must be Dominant, in control
<katchoo_witty> and how is these conflicting roles reconciled in the real world?
<^trufriend> i have gone through many jobs in retail, because i have had "bosses" that i conflict with, therefore i am a risk to employ....i don't conform easily
<elbowfetish> katchoo, people who do this for play are often reversing societal roles, but that doesn't include everyone. There are some deadpan serious folk too.
<^trufriend> but for whatever reason, i am not seen as management material
<arhiannah> ya but tru...sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet & let them be the boss
<victoria_angel{Flint}> and yet you probably could be, right tru?
<BernieRoehl> I've known some women in positions of great responsibility and decision-making authority, who are *deeply* submissive
<Stevius> I admit to having difficulty to reconcilling being a Dom twith being a sensitive pro-feminist type of guy
<BLiSs301> did someone say feminist ?
<BLiSs301> :) Stevius
<Stevius> oops
<^trufriend> i try arhiannah
<Stevius> can I take it back?
<katchoo_witty> how long does it take those women to develop a level of trust with someone to truly acknowledge that submissive sideo f themselves?
<arhiannah> that's something i'd like to understand better Bernie...do they chose the submissiveness because they are required to be "authoritarian" in their real lives??
* DarkAngel^ smiles at nymazoiay
<^trufriend> i also know i am very trying! LOL
* nymazoiay nods to DA
<jewell{T}> well i'm a senior manager and in charge of division..lots of staff to manage but am a submissive..my true self rather than the self i have to be for work..transition between these worlds can be hard
<que`sarah> I think, katchoo_witty, that there being very different contexts helps a lot.
<katchoo_witty> or are they looking for a release of that same control they wield daily?
<^trufriend> it's a matter of one's one intuition katchoo_witty, trust it...
<elegantsarah{DEM}> Stevius.....I had a problem reconciling my feminism with my desire to submit....it took some work but here I am
<elbowfetish> I find it's harder for men to open up as a sub than to act as a Dom.
<dalian> I too have been a senior manager...and have found the role to be very difficult over 15 yrs...now I'm happy to be out of that role
<BLiSs301> i didnt know it took work elegantsarah{DEM}
<katchoo_witty> jewell - do you use any kind of ritual or cue to help you transition?
<Stevius> glad to hear that elegantsarah{DEM}..I am still working, myself
<`autumn^breeze{JFC}> i was in management and hated it now i know why
<BernieRoehl> I'm not sure whether it's a cause-and-effect, arhiannah -- hard to be sure, really
<que`sarah> It did for me, too, BLiSs301 -- and it still does, sometimes....
<elegantsarah{DEM}> and I think DEM also had similar feelings.....how can he be a feminist and want to hurt women
<jewell{T}> yes katchoo_witty..i go to my kneeling pillow, find a quiet spot and de-focus from the day and find my inner submissiveness
<BernieRoehl> And yes, katchoo_witty -- it can take a bit of time, but a lot of submissives are *very* eager to let that part of themselves come out
<BLiSs301> i wish we couold hear more about that elegantsarah{DEM}
<^trufriend> glad you emphasized very Bernie :)
<victoria_angel{Flint}> lucky sub jewell, i have a hard wood floor....lol
<elbowfetish> I don't hurt women, I revere them when I top.
<katchoo_witty> I guess I struggle with finding the people I trust enough to show my true side too - especially since I am not sure about it myself.
* BernieRoehl smiles at tru
<^trufriend> i think that's why munches/brunches play parties and socializing in general are great for us katchoo_witty
<nymazoiay> but isnt assault when someone perseves there is a threat or that physical harm actually happens... When a submissive submits and is flogged is that not something that is wanted?
* `autumn^breeze{JFC} nods at ^trufriend
<^trufriend> it let's us meet people of similar interests and test the waters as it were...
<katchoo_witty> understood...guess I am still challenged by that particular leap of faith...
<^trufriend> you have to trust yourself before you can trust others.....first step
<Stevius> nymazoiay, a dom can be very ambivalent about hitting someone...lots of us were brought up to protect, and hitting a woman is about as low as one can go
<submissive_beauty> and when you do find that one katchoo i think you will still find challenges
<^trufriend> you're putting a lot on the line when you place yourself in another's hands
<DarkAngel^> it is wanted nymazoiay ,,, after communication and trust are exchanged ,,, can be very very beautiful
<elbowfetish> First munches are intimidating, how about first play parties?
<katchoo_witty> oh I am working with someone - there just really far away and we don't get much time together
<victoria_angel{Flint}> then Stevius, why then do Dom/mes act proud when they leave long term marks
<victoria_angel{Flint}> not all, some
<nymazoiay> sure...can be
<elegantsarah{DEM}> I suppose, Bliss....it was tring to reconcile the way I was brought up and the view that to be submissive was to be a doormat. My interest in bdsm started out as purely sexual. However, here I am submissive and don't see myself as very doormatty at all......I think I bought the "general" view of what submission is and means
<Kilted_One> some could argue nymazoiay, that even after consent has been given that it is still "assault in the eyes of the law", but now were are getting into really grey areas that there has really been no legal precidence set yet
<elegantsarah{DEM}> but it isn't like that in my life
<nymazoiay> that is what I thought KO.
<nymazoiay> that is where a DA comes in
<DarkAngel^> a Dom who hears "assault" would certainly wonder though
<nymazoiay> no... pun intended
<Stevius> I am not sure, victoria_angel{Flint}, I have never 'been' there...I imagine that they have categorized hitting a woman
<DarkAngel^> I do ?...lol
<DarkAngel^> certainly a concern for those new to the lifestyle
<DarkAngel^> as is starting a new event ,,, like DAL
<elbowfetish> You have to trust your sub not to turn against you later. I don't play too casually.
<victoria_angel{Flint}> i just find it interesting when some Dom/mes are proud to leave marks on their subs when they leave....somehow, i think that is hard for me to understand
<nymazoiay> what the district attorny or You?
<DarkAngel^> I thought you meant me nymazoiay *lol*
<elegantsarah{DEM}> Some subs are proud to wear those marks, as well
* que`sarah agrees completely with elegantsarah{DEM}
<submissive_beauty> i wear marks proudly
* elegantsarah{DEM} has been known to check out her own bruised bum, with pleasure
<victoria_angel{Flint}> and i believe that, but why? does that show you've accepted your submission and the marks are there to prove it?
<DarkAngel^> marks given with love ,,, and worn with love are beautiful
<Stevius> still, I can't imagine any guy bragging at work about how much he beat on a woman
* `autumn^breeze{JFC} agrees with victoria_angel{Flint}
* que`sarah checks out her own bruises, smiling quietly
<nymazoiay> with love.
* Kilted_One wants to know where the butt check is located??
* BernieRoehl smiles at que`sarah
<arhiannah> next to the newbie table KO :)
* silken_lips thinks that its not seen as beating on a woman when its D/s
<`autumn^breeze{JFC}> you don't have to have marks to be a good sub
<nymazoiay> and without ... nasty. That is where the law finds their dilema
* dalian smiles and sits on her bruises...hurts to move at times ;)
<que`sarah> As a reminder of the scene, and what was exchanged in it, too.
<arhiannah> but such a good hurt eh dalian?
<nymazoiay> like a hicky when you were a kid...or adult *smirks*
<dalian> lol
<elegantsarah{DEM}> I don't think you have to have marks either, and usually I don't mark much.....but they are a reminder of the pleasure given and received......bruising isn't always caused by unpleasantly harsh beatings
<`autumn^breeze{JFC}> it is the bonding and electricity between the two of you in the scene
<submissive_beauty> i think marks and wearing or giving all depend on the individual
<arhiannah> nope..most of mine come from walking into shit coz i'm a klutz
<arhiannah> lol
<BernieRoehl> Well, it's 10 pm
<^trufriend> what about the internal marks...being called a slut or a whore by your Dom/me?
<pet-tunia> yes.. and that little twinge you get every time you sit down is a welcome reminder for the next few days
<BernieRoehl> I'm going to end the formal discussion, and close the log
<BernieRoehl> Feel free to keep chatting informally
<BernieRoehl> Thanks, everyone, for participating!