March 27, 2005 EhBC Online Discussion

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<ModBot> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. Tonight's discussion topic is "How Accepting Are You of Other People's Kinks?". The discussion is unmoderated. Enjoy!
* alucard129 curls up in the corner, sighing boredly
<cailinn> don't say things all at once giggles
<Titan> sits back down
<catsbrat{CM}> i try to be very accepting of others kinks but i do find myself going ick how can people do that for some kinks
<Ozzy> hello folk
<cailinn> i am also like that catsbrat
<Brothersleep> I find it has everything to do with my weird shit o meter . when I first got into the scene in 1998 it was rather limited, but once I began exploring, reading more and understanding the people behind the kinks, the thought that goes into them sure some may not be my cup of tea but I won't say stop because of it.
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> I may not like seeing people suspended by hooks thru their skins but who am I to say its wrong?
* motoki tries not to look interested
<KnotNice> I think strong beliefs & intolerance often go together
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> agreed
<alucard129> very true
<`abi{A}> I don't think so KnotNice ... I have very strong beliefs ... but I'm not much concerned about what others may or may not believe
<KnotNice> to me it goes in levels
<cailinn> my feeling is who am i to judge anyone
<Brothersleep> though I admit i don't understand scatt , roman showers or watersports. sorry I still feel intollerance to those but I'm sure there is enough room in the community for everything.
<KnotNice> there are things that very much upset me, so I disinvolve myself
<krista-F> roman showers??....oh my......i am so ill informed.......don't have a clue what that is
<Brothersleep> I agree with KnoNice, good word. disinvolve.
<KnotNice> other things are not my cup of tea but I will accept that it is others, so I am sort neutral about it
<sugar^3> Sorry, question... what is a Roman Shower?
<cailinn> i am not like something but doesn't mean someone else can't like it
<cailinn> may
<Brothersleep> roman shower to vomit on someone or be vomited upon
<krista-F> lovely
<sugar^3> Oh.
<krista-F> no....i would not like that......
<alucard129> eww
<alucard129> lol, not my thing
<alucard129> obviously not Ozzys thing either
<catsbrat{CM}> hi lucy
<KnotNice> other things, while also not my thing, I can encourage another to do because it is enjoyable to them
<catsbrat{CM}> opssss
<Titan> will take a rain check on the vomit
<abitbent> i'm accepting of other peoples' kinks... however i'm offended when they decree that is the only way it should be.
<KnotNice> it all ties back to my sense of right & wrong, my beleif system, which I know is my & not the same as others
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> after all KnotNice, we dont have to watch or partake if it isnt "our thing" right?
<KnotNice> yes CP
<`abi{A}> has anyone encountered intolerance of the their personal kink?
<alucard129> hello blue and jewel`{F}
* lucy is usually too self absorbed in enjoying her kink to notice if others are disapproving ;)
<Brothersleep> I've know a few people where not too keen on My love for hypnoplay or mindfuck
<KnotNice> many have such stong beleifs that they feel it is so wrong that it should not happen, I would reserve that for like someone kicking a dog or similar
<Brothersleep> but I accept that. Its about finding people who connect with your kink as you do.
<KnotNice> others feel that way about our kink
<Kilted_One> why do we have to be 'accepting' of other kinks??
* jewel`{F} loves a good mind fuck
<Ausage> I have `abi{A} ... one several occassions....
<KnotNice> we need to be somewhat accepting because we expect that from others
<Brothersleep> Kiltered_One I think its more a question of there being enough room for everyone.
<jewel`{F}> do we have to accept it, or be tolerant and nonjudgemental?
<cailinn> nonjudgemental
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> KO maybe it should be "devils advocate"?
<devil> trying too but it wont let me
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> lol
<abitbent> what if someone's version of kink, is your version of abuse?
<motoki> then don't participate in it
<KnotNice> tolerant enough to be non-hypocrital
<cailinn> if both ppl agree shouldn't be a problem
<lucy> my version of abuse involves non-consent...if it's non-consentual then it's not kink, IMO
<jewel`{F}> doesn't it only become abuse when it is nonconsentual?
<abitbent> well put lucy
<Brothersleep> We can't help but judge.. it is our opinion. What we do with that opinion is the question.
<Brothersleep> If I don't agree do I force my opinion on you?
<`abi{A}> what do you do when you encounter intolerance?
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> abi, what do you do?
<KnotNice> what if they disagree with your kink Brother?
<lucy> depends....if i think education will help then i educate .... if not then i walk away
<KnotNice> do they have a right to force theirs on you?
<Brothersleep> KnotNice I move on and seek out those who do agree.
<`abi{A}> I've not encountered it in any overt way kinks are pretty mainstream
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> oh? really?? lol
<lucy> someone else forcing their kink on me is non-consentual
<`abi{A}> people have on occassion expressed 'opinions'... I take them as that
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> lucy what about someone particapating in a scene at a public venue?
<KnotNice> unless you previously agreed to the forced situation lucy?
<Brothersleep> KnotNice I agree with Lucy attempt to educate them (and if that doesnt work move on or keep it to myself as I seek out others)
<lucy> when i attend a public venue i consent to witnessing that...if i don't like it or it offends me then i am free to go elsewhere...same if someone else doesnt like a scene i'm participating in
<KnotNice> yes, that eduction is like trying to reach a level of understanding
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> very well put lucy
<lucy> at least in a public venue I KNOW the scenes are consentual, therefore i have no problem with that
<Ausage> The problem with YKINOK occurs when some people start complaining to event organizers and the organizers respond by trying to appease them
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> that is the organizers mistakes
<Ausage> yup
<lucy> no one is forced to attend a play party...and no one is forced to stay if it's not to their liking
<devils_advocate> is there a difference between
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> you cant make up the rules as you go. either you allow it or you dont. and if it is allowed you dont have to watch it if you dont want to
<devils_advocate> being accpeting of someone kink and letting them do what they want to do
<`abi{A}> well, there's a difference between approval and acceptance devils_advocate
<Brothersleep> lol It was a Kink Party before it was a dance party People!
<Brothersleep> ;)
<KnotNice> dancing upsets me so I don't watch ;)
<Brothersleep> heh
<`abi{A}> and a big difference between 'it squicks me' and 'I don't think you should do it'
<devils_advocate> nods to abigaille
* lucy squicked at the way Elaine on Seinfeld danced *shudder*
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> devils_advocate, may I call you da?
<devils_advocate> laughs
<motoki> lolol
<Titan> no kidding
<devils_advocate> whatever pleases you brother
<devils_advocate> I think that too many confuse acceptance with tolerance
<KnotNice> agrees with DA
* `abi{A} wants to know since when was the devil's advocate a submissive ;(
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> well da, what do you do when you see a scene you dont like or you dont believe to be "right"
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> ?
<Brothersleep> Question.. when do you have a right to ask people performing a scene to leave?
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> lol @ abi
<lucy> hehehe 'abi{A}
<Brothersleep> Is it a collective or DM decission?
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> well Brothersleep, I dont believe I have the right to do that
<`abi{A}> you don't Brothersleep ... unless you're a DM and they are breaking some rule
<motoki> when they are performing said scene on my chest - no wait, even then i may not have the right
<Devils_Advocate> there abigaile feel better now
<`abi{A}> yes, I do
<Ausage> How many people here would consider watching a "non-consensual" scene at a public venue hot vs wrong?
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> abi are you really a Top? look at the power you have!
* lucy tries to raise her hand but turns to goo instead
<`abi{A}> sorry...not my kink CP ;)
<Brothersleep> But then again my form of mindfuck tends to bend the rules in the eyes of casual observers.
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> lol I thought not
<Brothersleep> would they then check with my partner and allow us to continue or would they stop us without consultation?
<`abi{A}> it's the power of submission CP
<Devils_Advocate> Brothersleep...when its your house
<KnotNice> so we are saysing accepting is not the same as tolerant?
<lucy> it's definitely not
<`abi{A}> accepting is definitely not the same as tolerating
<lucy> just because i tolerate something doesn't mean i accept it as right or good
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> yes so true abi so true
<KnotNice> we agree that we should be tolerant because we expect that of others towards us?
<`abi{A}> no, we should be tolerant because we have no right to be anything else
* lucy speaks for no one but herself
<lucy> i prefer to be accepting, but barring the ability to do that i will tolerate
<Brothersleep> lucy the same goes for us all.
<Brothersleep> ok it goes the same for me anyways ;)
<Devils_Advocate> speak for yourself Brothersleep...I dont have to be accepting at all and in a few cases Im not...but I do tolerate
<KnotNice> I try to be as accepting of others as I can, like my limits my level of acceptance is changing
<Brothersleep> I was refering to "Lucy speaks for no one but herself"
<Brothersleep> then I realized I was speaking for everyone with my next comment and backtracked.
<`abi{A}> does education help to reduce intolerance?
<_dove> Sometimes abi, yes
<lucy> sometimes...if the person/people is/are open to hearing a different point of view
<Brothersleep> better to educate then teach hate and ignorance
<KnotNice> let's say you saw someone who was being brutalized in an apparently concentual situation but you thought the persone being brutalized was not completely sane?
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> is there anything that people out here wouldnt tolerate?
<Brothersleep> Id say hello to the Canadian government and let the american government continue the scene.
<lucy> that gets into areas of what constitutes informed consent and i think that's outside the scope of this particular discussion...jmho, of course
<Brothersleep> ;)
* lucy giggles
<KnotNice> between other concentual adults I think I could be tolerant of almost anything
<Titan> Im very open minded can tolerate alot chuckle
<abitbent> higher taxes is a hard limit for me
<kierana{DRFL}> lol abit
<Devils_Advocate> your ???? KnotNice is not about accepting someones kink if the scene is non consentual and it would depend on where and what was going on if it would be allowed to continue
<KnotNice> if one person concented to let's say having another person kill them like what happened in Germany though, that get's into permanent harm, I could not tolerate that
<Devils_Advocate> the cornerstone of SSC is that it has to be lawful
<Titan> yes
<lucy> other than alert the authorities after the fact I don't think there's much you can do about that kind of extreme and, lets admit it, rare situation
<lucy> but isn't alot of what we do illegal in many jurisdictions in north america?
<Devils_Advocate> and if it is not and we witness it and do nothing we are all in fact breaking the law are we not??
<`abi{A}> no, the cornerstone of SSC is that is must be informed, risk aware consent
<KnotNice> <- wonders how legal many of the things we do actually are
* lucy agrees with abi
<`abi{A}> lawful is almost irrelevant to SSC
<KnotNice> anal sex is still illegal in many states
<Brothersleep> someone gave me a new one they called it RISK Risk Aware Consentual Kink.
<Titan> gather Im illegal laughs
<KnotNice> I'm sure I broke that law at Disneyworld
<Devils_Advocate> not to my knowledge lucy as we have have had police visit several of the venues that I have attended and they have walked away content that no laws were being broken
<KnotNice> NiceRACK
<lucy> that's why i mentioned a broader geographical area, many places in the states WIITWD is still illegal even if only due to archaic laws that are still on the books
<Devils_Advocate> it still cannot break a known law though abigaille??
<lucy> ignorance of the law is never a defence once a law is broken
<Brothersleep> I like rack more then ssc
<blue^^> 'safe' and 'sane' are relative
<sugar^3> Whatever happened to that Canadian court ruling in Vancouver that said that people cannot consent to have any injury done to them?
<Titan> safe and sane is just common sense dont you think
<lucy> good quesiton sugar^3...i know that in the UK you cannot consent to assault
<Devils_Advocate> mmm is boxing or any contact sport not fall into that area??
<blue^^> sure, but it's common sense, but that definaation could vary from person to person
<cailinn> and when does the goverment say what You do in the bedroom?
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> what does that court have to do with how we accept other people's kinks sugar^3?
<KnotNice> when you are in court cailinn
<Titan> true
<sugar^3> Well, if we're supposed to be law abiding etc...
<Brothersleep> :Law is imaginary rule which we respect (and for the most part) obey
<cailinn> that is sad if two ppl agree to what happens the goverment should have no say
<KnotNice> imaginary?
<Brothersleep> green red yellow lights only work because we mutually agee on them.
<motoki> most of the time
<sugar^3> i completely agree, cailinn.
<Brothersleep> not for any tangible force that stups us from going through
<Brothersleep> stops even.
<Titan> you know them darn laws
<Brothersleep> Just as I'm sure that if there were a law forbidding BDSM must here would choose to ignore it.
<lucy> while theoretically that's true, cailinn, what happens if the day after a heavy play session you are stricken with a bout of the flu and have to visit your Dr and they see bruises? then the situation gets a tad sticky
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> this has nothing to do with the law. this has to do with how we either accept or not accept others kinks
<Brothersleep> or at least in the privacy of their own homes.
* lucy agrees and promises to stya on topic
<Brothersleep> sorry for going Off Topic CP
<motoki> it's hard to imagine someone else's kink leading me to being unaccepting of them or their kink
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> no worries Brothersleep, just trying to get back to why we are here
<blue^^> i personally have no problem with what consenting adults do with each other
<sugar^3> Yes, it would be wrong for this to evolve, as a discussion normally does.
<Brothersleep> nods
<Brothersleep> sugar ;)
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> sugar^3, it is ok to evolve but we should stay on topic, no?
<cailinn> consenting adults should be able to do anything they wish as long as both agree and we are we to judge them
<blue^^> agreed
<Titan> nods
<KnotNice> & if they are breaking the law or one is doing permanent harm to the other cailinn?
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> yes cailinn I agree.
<Brothersleep> lucy in regards to the doctor situation have you had peronal experience?
<Brothersleep> curious more then anything else.
<motoki> well, a branding is "permanent harm" - i'm nto about to step in
<cailinn> breaking the law how? but rough sx?
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> I break the law every time I do knife play KnotNice. my knife isnt within the parameters of the ontario laws
<catsbrat{CM}> i try to accept that because each person is unique they will have different kinks and as i accept them as an individual i also accept their individual kinks
<blue^^> and rules are clearly stated at events, so keep the more extreme stuff at home if it goes against the rules, if it doesn't.........have at it
<blue^^> ;)
<Titan> perks at branding
<Devils_Advocate> so can we agree that if we feel a law is being broken we will not be as accepting of that kink
<Northbound> what law are you breaking?
<motoki> no i don't agree with that
* sugar^3 nods at Brothersleep - btw, my doctor is aware does now what i 'do' in my spare time
<motoki> i see law-breaking as an independent variable
<lucy> Brothersleep, i have not...but it's a real possibility and given that doctors are required by law to report signs of abuse....i think a heavily bruised bottom would likely trip their radar, no?
<lucy> depends on the law
<Devils_Advocate> can you explain that a little more motoki
<Northbound> what law are you breaking?
<motoki> i mean that law-breaking does not necessarily influence my acceptance of another's kink, and my acceptance of another's kink doesn't necessarily pay attention to whether or not a law is being broken
<Titan> dont think many be accepting of the smell of flesh if one was branded
<Brothersleep> lucy agreed but I also agree with sugar that breaking it to your doc and explaining what you do might help *shrugs* I tell my gp everything. its fun
* sinfully_delicious grins at Titan
<cailinn> what law says You can't have rough sex?
<lucy> it might help or it might not depending on the Dr
<Brothersleep> the Law of GOD!.. um kidding
<blue^^> i tell my doc i enjoy intense sensation
<sugar^3> Well, my doctor has known me for a long time, and is very ...uh.. openminded.
<Northbound> Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss} what law are you breaking?
<cailinn> being tied up could leave marks but if You agree to it why would there be a problem
<Titan> sounds like a good doctor
<sugar^3> good thing, too, cause he saw the initals that are burned into my breasts
<cailinn> smiles
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> there is a law Northbound that dictates how long the blade of a knife is. my blade exceeds said length
<motoki> "i have an exuberant lover" works well in the doctor's office
<Titan> he probably kept the pics too lol
<cailinn> lol probley
<Brothersleep> CP is it a one handed pop blade?
<sugar^3> How many people saw the sexTV episode on balloon buddies? or the CSI on furries?
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> no it isnt Brothersleep
<Northbound> ohhhh Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}, yhat is news to mee, i have never heard of such a law
<KnotNice> I did sugar
<catsbrat{CM}> i saw the furries
<KnotNice> what is the law CP, 4 inches?
<sugar^3> How many people flinched.. or thought it was gross or wierd?
* lucy wonders if maybe she should start watching TV again
<Brothersleep> oh got my laws mixed up I thought there was a paramater that stated if you could open it one handed then it was against the law.
<Northbound> is that for a conceald knife or something
<sugar^3> What happens if a balloon lover, or a furry shows up at a commonly attended play party, to play?
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> I have been told by a law enforcement official that it is 3 inches but again we digress from the topic lol
<sugar^3> How many people would make fun?
* Brothersleep listens to sugar and decides to table his other fetishes for anothe discussion ;)
* `abi{A} thinks that the length of a blade is unlikely to have anything to do with whether or not it is accepted within the kink community
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> yes Northbound
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> agreed abi
<motoki> i have no idea what a balloon lover is, but whatever works
* sugar^3 thinks the bigger the knife, the better, abi. Heheh.
<Achilles{a}> Hmmm, unless small ones get lafefd at of course.
<Northbound> i used to carry large hunting knife in a sheat on my belt exposed to bee seen ant that wasn't ilegal
<KnotNice> if some wants to hang out at a play party I'm at looking like a huge Pandabear carrying a whip, that's ok with me
<Brothersleep> you gage the room and if your fetish isn't being represented you find a room where it is.
<sugar^3> Umm.. i can't remember the website. i think it was or something
<lucy> or you stay if you've got some self confidence
<Brothersleep> or you stick around and mingle its your call
<Brothersleep> agreed lucy
<Brothersleep> I mean I'm sure there must be a woman dresses up like a cake in every crowd.
<MsMaple> Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss} has anyone stated any kinks that they have difficulty with for instance?
<KnotNice> scat play squicks me
<sugar^3> Well, i can't watch vomit *happen*
<Titan> scat I do however if its their thing go for it
<MsMaple> I also had a difficult time understanding this one KnotNice
<cailinn> i don't like scat play either but won't judge someone who does
<KnotNice> but if people want to do that, whatever, I won't watch or smell
<lucy> after two kids i've had enough poop and urine to last a lifetime, but if others are into that they can have at it
<MsMaple> I spoke intensely with an older man from near Inverness and then downloaded a visual .... just to see
<Brothersleep> I'm with you on the ones I stated at the beginning.
* Achilles{a} thinks smoking is an edge-play He doesn't need to be exposed to.
<cailinn> right You not like step out no one is keeping You there
<MsMaple> Oh plz Brothersleep do share with us late cummers ;)
<KnotNice> I used to think I could not tolerate torture scenes but found it very erotic to watch
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> well I have a difficulty with suspension by hooks thru skin MsMaple but I am not intolerant to it
<Brothersleep> I dont like watching or the idea of watching Roman showers, golden showers or scatt
<ModBot> There are only about five minutes left in the formal part of tonight's discussion. Does anyone have any last-minute thoughts on the subject?
* MsMaple thinks exposure is the key to acceptance
<motoki> i guess that would be one reason why i'd be unaccepting of another's kink - if it infringed on my own space or health (like smoking)
<Brothersleep> or Urethral play but thats just not my thing
<motoki> but that boils down to consent again
<lucy> there's very little that squicks me out of hand
<MsMaple> :)
<Brothersleep> not a fan of hard limit penis torture.
<sugar^3> agreed, MsMaple
<`abi{A}> lots of things squick me, there are a few things that I wouldn't accept and very little that I wouldn't tolerate
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> yes abi well put
<Brothersleep> Second hand smoke something I dont enjoy.
<MsMaple> So education and exposure is what I caught here tonight to be the 'golden path to enlightment'
<`abi{A}> and enlightened limiting of one's personal exposure
<lucy> hehehe
<cailinn> and being openminded
<motoki> lol good one abi
<KnotNice> you never know until you try ( or at least watch ), I guess
<MsMaple> `abi{A} agreed ... no need to get spashed on
<Titan> <you naughty girl cai
<KnotNice> does everyone think people in the lifestyle are more openminded in general?
<cailinn> lol
<`abi{A}> heavens no
<lucy> oh hell no
<krista-F> NO!!!!!!
<motoki> nuh uh
<cailinn> i thought so until i came in here.. giggles
<lucy> people are people independant of kink
<Achilles{a}> I'm not.
<Brothersleep> KnotNice. no its only one aspect of a big life.
<nightmans> i found flogging even thow not at extream the moveing them self can but erodic and just memberise me but that's me
<KnotNice> so were are just a bunch of people who share similar kinks?
<MsMaple> perhaps KnotNice but then again perhaps not
<Achilles{a}> Yeah... if they can't use two floggers then it ain't really a flogging scene. Step aside. Let a REAL Dom use the equipment!!
* Achilles{a} smiles pleasantly
<ModBot> Well, that's it for the formal part of the discussion. The discussion log is now closed. It should be processed and uploaded to the website soon. Please feel free to continue chatting informally. Have a good night, everyone!
<ModBot> Thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion.
<Corporal_Punishment{pb_ss}> lol @ Achilles{a}