March 24, 2002 EhBC Online Discussion

<BernieRoehl> Okay, it's just coming up on 9 pm, and it's time for our regular Sunday night discussion
<MistressMT> I'm here to help as I ahve played with many a mrried man
<jewel`{F}> BernieRoehl Hello Sir
<BernieRoehl> I've set an automatic message on the channel that reads as follows:
<BernieRoehl> Welcome to or regular Sunday night discussion. Please refrain from sending "hi" and "bye" messages until after 10 pm. Also note that the discussion is being logged. If you wish to remain anonymous, you should change your nick. We recommend using as your server, to minimize lag. Tonight's discussion is "Having a D/s Relationship Outside of a Vanilla Marriage". The moderator is BernieRoehl. Enjoy the discussion!
<DarkAngel^{rt}> Tal Kilted_One , I hope you and your lovely ar well Brother
<DarkAngel^{rt}> uh oh ,,,
* DarkAngel^{rt} quickly waves tot he rest
<DarkAngel^{rt}> and what might tonight's topic be BernieRoehl ?
<BernieRoehl> This is always a controversial subject, and emotions sometimes run high. I would encourage everyone to state their opinions clearly but calmly, and to avoid becoming too fervent about things.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> NO WAY !!!!!!
* rhiannon{KO} thinks DA has not been reading His
<DarkAngel^{rt}> oh,,, uhh ok
* BernieRoehl chuckles
* MistressMT evil grin
<BernieRoehl> First, a bit of background. A lot of people come into BDSM fairly late in life, after they've already formed a long-term vanilla relationship.
<BernieRoehl> That leaves them with some difficult choices.
<BernieRoehl> So... any opening thoughts?
<DarkAngel^{rt}> has this happend to anyone here ?... and care to share ?
<MistressMT> Why should they leave their hoe, children, etc. when they could find a play partner to satisfy their BDSM needs/fantasies
<janizz> very difficult choices, as i am one of a vinalla marraige, bute seek BDsm outside
<Chimo`> don't get married <g>
<QTIP-away> i work with a man who's wife is in now way interested in his kink. he's sub. he belongs to an organization i belong to. they have an agreement which seems to work for them
* BernieRoehl notes for the record that he's never been married, so he has a fairly detached point of view on this whole subject :-)
<QTIP-away> oops
<MistressMT> But some of them have had these fantasies for years and it is only recently that the interest is almost acceptable
<Nitshill> This subject is right about me,attached in a Vanilla relationship, without BDSM interests I think I would have gone insane!
<janizz> i have and do spouse knows of my involvement in the community, as he has atteded fest and muches...he doesnt know i have played
<MistressMT> I have played with and established BDSM relationships with many married men
<MistressMT> Some for as long as 6-7 years even
<janizz> i find it difficult to meet One that will play with a married woman
<oasis{Omy}> was married to a very vanilla man.. who thought i was sick because of my interests...i chose to bury my desires.. eventually became divorced.. realising i wasnt being fair to myself
<MistressMT> and they are commited to me in their own way ... yet because we don't do bedroom activities they don't feel like they are cheating on their wives
<MistressMT> but some for many outside reasons cannot walk away from their mariiage
<janizz> i wish not for a love affair per se. just someone that i cant trust with my world
<BernieRoehl> So... for those in that situation -- vanilla marriage, but exploring BDSM -- what exactly are the options?
<MistressMT> but janizz there are married men out there also wishing to play
<Nitshill> My last play partner was a a married women
<janizz> options?...
<fiestyone> i am in a vanilla marriage
<fiestyone> married for 26 yrs
<oasis{Omy}> cyber.. working an agreement with your partner.. fooling aroung behind thier back..
<Nitshill> Be honest, my So knows I am involved in the Community but maybe not to the extent that I am
<fiestyone> and i am also very involved in the bdsm lifestyle
<fiestyone> but my husband knows everything about me......
<janizz> i was in a realationship outside my marriage for a year....but the distance (Detroit) was too far
<oasis{Omy}> problem with a lie is it is just that... your only kidding yourself if you feel you wont get caught... my thoughts
<janizz> as does mine...well he doesnt know i play...fiestyone
<fiestyone> what i do....who i do it w ith.....i lie about anyone....ever
<fiestyone> that is how i live my life
<fiestyone> not a thing to do with my marriage or bdsm lifestyle.
<fiestyone> is just how i live....
<BernieRoehl> So... the choices seem to be: tell your spouse and hope they accept it, keep it a secret and hope they don't find out, end the relationship, or try to suppress your interests for the sake of the marriage
<MistressMT> but some SO's don't want to know the details as some just would never understand
* BernieRoehl lives the way fiestyone does, but notes that not everyone has that option
<fiestyone> i tried the suppression route
<janizz> for me, MistressMT..i dont see how my SO couldnt know.....that i play....i think perhaps its a case, dont ask the question if you are not willing to hear the answer
<fiestyone> for many many years......but it harment my marriage by doing so i believe
<fiestyone> and i understand that many do not have the options i do
<Nitshill> In my case the SO has her own hobbies and I have mine!
<dalian> is the dividing line simply that of needing to fulfill the fantasy on a part time basis and therefore not necessary to break away from the vanilla SO?
<MistressMT> and a wonderful hobby, too! *smiles*
<janizz> dalian..for me its NOT a fantasy..its a need
<MistressMT> Not everyone can live BDSM 24/7
<Nitshill> Wel;l it helps in a way to have a home based business, thats one reason not to go the divorce route
<dalian> that's what I actually meant...just didn't say it properly
<fiestyone> i may have to make some decisions on my marriage......down the can be funny somtimes
<janizz> i am not sure, if i was given a choice which i would take...i have a good life..very good... save my need in BDsm
<BernieRoehl> So who here has successfully "come out" to their spouse, and had it go well?
<fiestyone> me!!!!
<fiestyone> when i told him......he threw up
<oasis{Omy}> its what each individual can live with..... what path i choose is just that mine... i dont expect any to judge me.. as i will not judge them.... but i needed to have bdsm back in my life to be content...
<fiestyone> but other than that....was great
<Nitshill> Mine thinks I am crazy and it will pass!
<janizz> i have only to the extent..he knows..and agrees that i go to fetih parties and munches
<{OT}cariye> how can you juggle a SO and a BDSM partner ?
<BernieRoehl> So once he got past the initial vomiting, all was well? :-)
<fiestyone> it took time......i said i wanted to go to a munch..he said...i don't want to socialize...with "those" people
<justagrrrl> i have to.....its been a long process for him to be comfortable, we started with reading information about bdsm together
<fiestyone> i said......but one of "those" people
<janizz> cariye, for me, i can come and go as i i would leave home for weekends to have my time
<fiestyone> and so it began
<fiestyone> a long journey......
<quiet_moments> i got rid of the SO before finding my submissive side so its been kewl
<justagrrrl> and gradually when his comfort levels allowed it, we went to munches .....then fets and play parties
<justagrrrl> i have always been open with him, i always felt.....for me that was cructial
<BernieRoehl> So telling your spouse can work. But what are the risks if they don't take it well?
<fiestyone> you could lose everything.....that is the reality.....
<MistressMT> I had a cute incident once .... playing with a married man in my l;iving room (the days before I had a playroom) the phone rang and the on the answereing machine was "This is ....'s wife" My inmmediate response was "Does she have a shotgun?"
<fiestyone> and not somethint to be taken lightly.....
<MistressMT> He not only told his wife, unbeknonst to me he gave her my phone number
<oasis{Omy}> well they can calll you unfit parent.. torment you with your desires... or leave you tied up..cause you go farel.. scared the hell out of him... so he ran to find his tail...
* {OT}cariye left her hubby cause he could not be all I needed
<BernieRoehl> So telling your spouse is a risky proposition. What about the alternatives? Has anyone here managed to maintain both a vanilla relationship and a BDSM relationship concurrently?
<janizz> yes Bernie i did for 2 years
<BernieRoehl> (Right, I remember you mentioned it a few screens back janizz -- sorry about that!)
<BernieRoehl> Anyone else?
<MistressMT> some of my married play partners eventually divorced but many are still devoted to their marriage
<Nitshill> I did it too Bernie but they never seem to last, due to work and othjer things in this fast moving ORLD
<Nitshill> wORLD,LOL
<fiestyone> i will say.....that my marriage is detremental to finding a Master.....
<^^^zaR^^^> um,, ^^^LS^^^ and i have a mix of both bdsm and nilla, enjoying the best of both worlds so to speak. But i think that comes with when you are with a partner thats just as "kinky" as you are, that you are able to blend both sorts of experiences into one lovely pot
<oasis{Omy}> I am curious how one handles the emtions involved ina D/s relationship.. when your in a marriage to a vanilla..does it cause other issues
<fiestyone> a lot of Doms......want nothing to do with a married sub......even though i make it quite clear that my h knows all
<fiestyone> does not seem to matter
<fiestyone> im seen as off limits by many
<Chimo`> even those who do not want a 24/7 type relationship?
<fiestyone> yes.......
<janizz> no oasis..its like being in a ploy relationship sort of
<fiestyone> Doms can be very territorial......
<fiestyone> and they want not to share.....
<janizz> poly....not ploy...
<MistressMT> If a Dom is looking for a LTR then it is hard to commit yourself to a married partner ... but there are some married men who are looking for just that ... another married pllay partner
<janizz> i agree fiestyone
<fiestyone> yes....but then..where do you go to play
<fiestyone> most times he's lying to his wife
<fiestyone> so that leaves his place out
<fiestyone> and i do not play in my my 24 yrs old son lives here
<MistressMT> who says hobbies are cheap ... a motel room is cheaper than a good round of golf ... lol
<^^^zaR^^^> i knew one lovely girl, dying to be dominated, told her hubby, who encouraged her to seek out a play partner, introduced me to him to seeif i would be ok with him, and he encouraged it, however i declined only cause i felt he was laying groundwork for divorce (in his favour) and would drag me in as 'the other pervert party"
<BernieRoehl> So there are practical problems if both partners are married to other people
<fiestyone> yes.......
<fiestyone> i think they are inherent
<fiestyone> just part of the whole picture for us married people
<Nitshill> Amen!
<janizz> but that is the same in a vinalla relatioship outside of marriage
<janizz> at least there is the option of fet parties
<fiestyone> not for me
<fiestyone> i would not be looking for another vanilla one of those already
<fiestyone> lol
<janizz> no what i ment..that the same problems about where to meet happen in both vinalla and BDsm...
<janizz> where to find intimant moments
<janizz> at lease we have the option of play parties
<fiestyone> i know appologies.....was my attempt at lightheartedness
<janizz> sorry...~s~
<fiestyone> yes.....and i do play a lot for a woman who is married or not i've been told
<oasis{Omy}> te one thing that i have seen in the past with some online relationships... are those that lead on submissives.. leaving them tobelieve thir marriage is on the rocks.... than the sub finding the truth .. have seen more than a few devestated by dishonesty
<fiestyone> i have been there a time or two oasis{Omy}
<janizz> knowing nothing of online relationships..never done it
<fiestyone> i do not have online relationships either.....i am real time only
<fiestyone> but i often think everyone is as honest as i am......WRONG!!!!!!!
<fiestyone> and i have been hurt by those the extent that i seriously considered walking away from this.that brings me so much
<BernieRoehl> Do people feel there's a difference between having a physical relationship outside of their marriage and having an online one?
<Nitshill> Really, one has to be open and honest in any relationship whether Cyber or real life
<Fyre{j}> a huge difference
<janizz> ohhh..i think an emotional relationship can be as intense as a physical one
<Fyre{j}> for all an online relationship can fullfill many needs ...... you can never hold that person
<fiestyone> i agree with Fyre{j}
<fiestyone> i need that physical closeness
<fiestyone> but that is just my own personal neediness...not all people need that
<Fyre{j}> after two years in an online relationship, I needed to feel something physical
* DarkAngel^{rt} moves away from Fyre{j}
<fiestyone> lol
* oasis{Omy} giggles
<fiestyone> you are too cute DA
* Fyre{j} blows kissies at DA
<BernieRoehl> What about suppressing your kinky desires? Has anyone done that successfully?
<fiestyone> yes..............for about 29 yrs
* `vixie has never been able to do that, no matter how hard i try
<MistressMT> yep ... ME! 3 vanilla husbands
<fiestyone> make that 20......just seemed like 29
<Fyre{j}> suppress ..... is that possible?
* jewel`{F} smiles
<fiestyone> it is if you have a great imagination Fyre{j}
<DarkAngel^{rt}> it doesnt last BernieRoehl ,,, the ,,,,,, hunger comes back ,,, and I do BAD things *innocent smile* ,,, but the truth
<oasis{Omy}> I did for 5 years... grinss.. now i ahve so much time to make up for :)
* Fyre{j} couldn't "calm blue ocean" His desires for love nor money
<fiestyone> i think my age has been a real catalyst for me
<BernieRoehl> Does anyone here feel that suppressing those feelings is a viable option?
<fiestyone> i am getting on in years.....
<fiestyone> and i intend to be as happy as possible
<Nitshill> aren't we all!
<fiestyone> it will always come out i one way or another....given time
<janizz> viable im not sure, but might not have a choice
* DarkAngel^{rt} <-- old grumpy ugly fuck
* BernieRoehl smiles in agreement with fiestyone
<fiestyone> i have shoes older than you DA
<DarkAngel^{rt}> not viable for me BernieRoehl ,,, I am not roll playing ,, I am whats I am
* Fyre{j} stopped aging eons ago (in His online relationships)
<MistressMT> as W/we get older, with kids etc. out of the way we are ready to start living life our own way
<fiestyone> yes......and we see.....that time is going so quickly
<DarkAngel^{rt}> fiestyone ,,, I hope you change your shoes for DAL
<Fyre{j}> (nice shameless plug DA)
<fiestyone> lol....going to take em off.....and wiggle my toes at ya Sir
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ty Fyre{j} ,,, I try
<DarkAngel^{rt}> no need though Fyre{j} ,, DAL is about sold out
<DarkAngel^{rt}> oops ,, nevermind ,,, for anouther 5 min or so
<DarkAngel^{rt}> any last thoughts on improving the hard task of living a double life ?
<fiestyone> do what you be owe it to yourself......
<Fyre{j}> be honest, be realistic, be true to yourself
<fiestyone> that is may advice
<fiestyone> hey....a topic i actually know something about!!!!!!!!
<fiestyone> a first
<janizz> i thank Yyou for having this discussion, and hope Yyou enjoy the rest of Yyour evening..
<BernieRoehl> And what about the fourth option -- ending the marriage.
<DarkAngel^{rt}> been there ,, done that ,, never easy,
<DarkAngel^{rt}> but happens ,, alot ,,
<jewel`{F}> That is not always possible for any number of reasons
<{OT}cariye> if you are truely unhappy then it is better to end it
<Nitshill> Most of them Money like
<DarkAngel^{rt}> it is some times ,, easier to end it ,, realize you both arent happy ,, and still be friends ,, that is what I have
<{OT}cariye> me too
<Chimo`> most reasons can be overcome if it's desired
<fiestyone> you are lucky DA
<fiestyone> i think im too old to start over
<MistressMT> too old? ..... get outta here ... I am turning 56
* ^^^zaR^^^ reaches over and pinches justagrrrrl
<fiestyone> i am 50 Ma'am
* justagrrrl bites her tongue stifling the yelp
* justagrrrl just grins
<MistressMT> I was 47 when I started living this lifestyle to its fullest
<Nitshill> Thats a wonderful age
<fiestyone> thank you Sir
<Nitshill> I am over the hill too,over 60!look and act younger too
<^^^zaR^^^> we missed you last nite pretty girl
<MistressMT> and you are acitve enough too even with broken ribs, Nitshill
<DarkAngel^{rt}> stop calling me that ^^^zaR^^^
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol
<`vixie> lol DA
<Nitshill> Exactlly I tripped over a Dog,lol thats how I cracked three ribs
<fiestyone> as do i Sir
<fiestyone> so did i Sir
* ^^^zaR^^^ wiggles my eyebrows at DA, and imagines Him in a dress
<fiestyone> honest......that is toooooooo funny
<MistressMT> sure it wasn't a bithc? .... lol
* DarkAngel^{rt} might manage a Kilt ,, but that is it ^^^zaR^^^
<Nitshill> nah, a real life Labrador, relaxing
<BurlOntMa> hello
* justagrrrl smiles at zaR
<fiestyone> a golden retriever in my case Sir
<^^^zaR^^^> burlington? hello
<DarkAngel^{rt}> well is the discussion over ?
<BernieRoehl> So, we have about nine minutes left
<DarkAngel^{rt}> I was just going to ask about the kinky sex part
<fiestyone> my fave Sir
<fiestyone> lol
<DarkAngel^{rt}> oh god
<^^^zaR^^^> ack, and here i was thinking that it was over
<fiestyone> ask away
<BernieRoehl> Anyone have any overall advice for people in a vanilla marriage who discover they're kinky?
<Nitshill> They are nice too, but have twn Labs here, that our business and thats whats keeps our attachment going, they are like kids how to break them up
<DarkAngel^{rt}> once you have kinky sex ,, can you ever be satisfied going back to the vanilla ?
<^^^zaR^^^> YES ,,convert your partner!
<Nitshill> hard to break them up,lol
<fiestyone> NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
<DarkAngel^{rt}> and does that give impetuss to leaving
<fiestyone> YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<MasterGuny> Don't act on it or the chances are the marriage is over
<MistressMT> it is not always easy to convert your partner
<fiestyone> not in my case you know
<justagrrrl> lol.... i'm trying
<MasterGuny> No but your case is the exception
<fiestyone> true......and happilly so
<DarkAngel^{rt}> kewl justagrrrl ,, that would be the best way
<MistressMT> Even if a guy asks his wife to spank him, she usually declines or has a good laugh about it
<fiestyone> he actually drove me to the hotel last nite
<DarkAngel^{rt}> but hard to arrainge
<^^^zaR^^^> for better or worse, richer or poorer,, start with a lil slap n tickle, abit of light bondage, let them know it makes you feel good, and can feel good for them too
<fiestyone> where i was staying with two gentleman
<Nitshill> Dont have Sex, just play and enjoy, I was taught to keep my zipper up,all you can do a Public Parties is dream and not have Sex
<fiestyone> and NO i did not have any sex.......
<MasterGuny> It is still a huge risk
<fiestyone> of any kind
<DarkAngel^{rt}> last question ,,, is it easier converting a male vanilla to kinky sex ,,, as apposed to converting a vanilla femal to kink ?
<Nitshill> My last lady friend was a Vamn
<jewel`{F}> hmmmmmmm
<fiestyone> i don't know......
<MistressMT> NO, it is not easier iiether way
<{OT}cariye> probably easier to convert the female
<justagrrrl> depends on the person
<MistressMT> A male is brought up not to hurt women ..
<MasterGuny> I don't believe it is a conversion I believe it is in you and not acted on..or just not in you
<justagrrrl> regardless of gender
<Nitshill> She liked parts of BDSM, but its better to have a friend that understnads BDSM in the first place
<MistressMT> A female is brought up not to dominate men
<jewel`{F}> i think that would depend on how fast the convertion was attempted
<DarkAngel^{rt}> is it easirer converting vanillas to a Dom/me ,,, or to a sub ?
<justagrrrl> in my case its been years and years
<justagrrrl> well....years.... 3
<jewel`{F}> males are more apt to "rush" where as females need to go slower
<DarkAngel^{rt}> exposure to something new can always awaken hungers MasterGuny
<justagrrrl> feels long :)
<MasterGuny> Not always..I know of at least two cases where that is not true
<DarkAngel^{rt}> no ,,, just average size justagrrrl ,,, but thanks for saying that
* MistressMT but do you relaly convert them or are they just serving you out of love?
<justagrrrl> lol
<`Ronin-> Bernie, I hate that pop-up. Heh heh heh...
<justagrrrl> my husband does not feel his is D, he is open to topping me though
* BernieRoehl smiles
<DarkAngel^{rt}> once they are there ,,, educated and having fun ,, is there a difference MistressMT?
<justagrrrl> his=he
<Nitshill> I mthink some Vanillas do love you and try to njoy BDSM for your sake
<DarkAngel^{rt}> kewl justagrrrl ,, that is a good start
* justagrrrl nodsnods
<MistressMT> but would you be as fulfilled as you would be if the partner was "reallY' into it?
* ^^^zaR^^^ grins at justagrrrl
<DarkAngel^{rt}> a better start ,,, to continue a relationship ,, than many here I would think
<justagrrrl> well nooooo but i'm working on that, my marriage is very important to me
<MistressMT> I tried to convert a past lover ... he let me spank him but there was "something" missing!
<DarkAngel^{rt}> not sure MistressMT ,,, but many of us were introduced ,,, as apposed to like me "saught it out" ,,, and are just as happy ,, if not more
<justagrrrl> both minds are open.... so i feel we are heading in a good direction together
<DarkAngel^{rt}> again ,,, the old saying ,, "it depends on the fufilment the relationship is bringing"
<BernieRoehl> Well, we're coming to the end of the formal part of the discussion
<BernieRoehl> Thanks to everyone who participated!
<DarkAngel^{rt}> good for you justagrrrl
<DarkAngel^{rt}> ty BernieRoehl ,, a good discussion ,,, mostly cause I shut up
<DarkAngel^{rt}> lol
* justagrrrl smiles warmly back at zaR
<MistressMT> Thank you, Bernie